Jon Stewart smokes, Kerry owns guns, and Gore drinks alcohol.

[Alexander]

So whatever problems any holier-than-thou DUers have with these vices, they can GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

(BTW, I don't smoke or use guns, and I rarely, if ever, drink)

[aquart]

1. No.

[RB TexLa]

2. And John Kennedy all three

[sarge43]

30. Also FDR

[blm]

51. And Kerry smoked pot....heheh...so did Gore.....

Gore probably smoked with Tommy Lee Jones. Kerry with John Lennon and Hunter Thompson.

[JI7]

3. is there anyone on DU who wants a complete ban on those things ?

Kerry is for gun control.

i'm sure Gore opposes drinking and driving.

i don't see the point of this post.

[Alexander]

9. Based on many DUers posts I've seen, yes.

A cursory glance at the "rationalizing" thread (among others) will reveal that some DUers could not care less about the Second Amendment, and that smoking anywhere, anytime is somehow morally reprehensible.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[buddysmellgood]

24. You mean that thing about the militia having arms?

[krispos42]

28. No, that thing about the "people" having arms

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Okay, lets count the entities in that sentence:

Militia (1), free State (2), and People (3).

Now, which one is expressly given the right to keep and bears arms?

But forget that point because very few people actually want to ban guns entirely. The debate is really about what can people own, under what conditions they can own them, what features can the guns have, and how many hoops you have to jump through to get them.

The point I want to make here is that, except for a very few very urban districts whose constituents see only gun violence and were not raised around people who use firearms for anything but evil, the candidates who want to make firearm ownership very stringent are only pushing independents into the arms of the Republicans.

The assault weapons ban of 1994 that so many Democrats were SO proud of opened the door to the Republican Revolution and twelve years of rabidly arrogent evangelical corporatist rule, and I am pretty sure that enough Floridians were pissed off enough at Gore and Lieberman to vote Republican. Or just stay home. And Gore lost by a lousy 537 votes out of 6 million cast, opening the door to the neocon administration and all that has entailed.

Very few Republicans want to increase gun control. Most Democrats feel the same way. Libertarian-leaning independents also feel the same way. So this issue can't be advanced (nor, do I think it should, but that's my personal opinion) for the forseeable future. Not if Democrats want to win in '06 and '08.

And the people that are the most strident about gun control are the ones that know very little about them and show absolutely no interest in learning about them or spending a few hours at a shooting range, or who know the differences and cynically use the public's ignorance of them to mislead. Which is why they have no respect among knowledgable gun owners because the laws that they pass are generally considered stupid and pointless. Feel-good pablum so ignorant constituents can cheer and lawmakers can brag.

So we need to let sleeping dogs lie. The AWB ban expired, interestingly enough on the very day my son was born, and the world didn't end. "Stand Your Ground" laws passed in severals states, such as Florida, and the streets did not run red with blood. The states that wanted to keep or expand the provisions of the AWB acted on their own, and the spirit and essence of the Ban live on in states like California and New York and Massachusettes.

We've lost enough rights under this admistration. Most of the Bill of Rights has been severely shredded, and the habeas corpus and ex post facto provisions in Article One, Section 9 of the Constitution have been trashed. In the midst of all this loss, taking away more rights is just horrible.

[Paladin]

34. We Don't Need Any Lectures From A DU Gun Activist

You and your pals down in the Gun Dungeon trashed Al Gore, you trashed John Kerry, and now that we've got another campaign season, you're trashing double amputee Tammy Duckworth, asking whether she's "shooting Democrats in the foot," such a nice way of putting it, considering Ms. Duckworth no longer has any feet. So spare us all yet another lecture, OK? The only group making guns an issue this time around are you gun activists. Do us a favor and shut the hell up.

[T Town Jake]

37. Such a charming post, chock full of the usual distortions and...

...outright falsehoods of the anti-RKBA crowd. Do yourself your own "favor," OK?

[Paladin]

39. And What Would Those "Usual Distortions" Be?

The Gun Dungeon's savaging of Gore, Kerrey, Duckworth and any other Democrats that don't buy into the far right-wing gun policy that you gun militant "Democrats" are demanding is a matter of record and can be viewed in the Gungeon's archives, along with the Gungeon's shameful silence that followed Cheney's putting a load of bird shot into a fellow hunter's face. You people are always more ready to take down a Democratic politician rather than a Republican one, and why the hell not? After all, the Republicans are giving you just what you want in the way of gun policy. Anybody who doubts this is welcome to keep track of the Gungeon during this campaign season---it's going to happen again, and in fact, it's already started....

[immoderate]

40. I don't think the 2nd amendment is far right-wing policy.

Your invective here is quite distorted. All the anti-gun policy initiatives do is cost us votes. I've never based my vote on that issue but I know people who have. And it's the stupidity of laws like the AWB that makes us seem incompetent.

For Duckworth to try to run in a Republican district on anti-RKBA is not smart IMHO.

--IMM

[krispos42]

44. Don't shoot the messenger

And if you think only DU gun nuts are bringing it up, you're wrong. The gun-rights machine uses Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and Pelosi's stand on the issues to try to scare undecided whos own guns.

I joined the DU this year. I don't know what was said about Kerry during the '04 election here, but I know what was said in the gun magazines, and it wasn't flattering. It is why I'm trying to get the gun-control issue low-key, it is giving the neocons a substantial club to beat up on Democrats. And frankly, I'm sick and tired of these evangelical corporatist nutjobs running the place, okay?

I kind of assumed that you and I have the same goal, wresting control of the Houses of Congress away from these dangerous failures! We have to win to do that, and myself and others like me are trying to tell you to DUMP A LOSING ISSUE!!!!!

Not only it is a losing issue politically, it does not prevent crime or make people safer, for several reasons. We tried it your way, and lost big time.

And I am fully aware of Duckworth's disability, and think that headline is in horrible taste. It's like asking Max Clelend for a round of applause. I am very glad she survived and prospered, and I think she will make a good legislator. I want her to win, but if is a narrow loss, you have to ask yourself "Why?"

You do not seem to want to analyse WHY Democrats keep losing by narrow margins, just keep doing the same thing over and over again. Vote tampering and Deibold aside, this is an important issue and must be dealt with.

I voted Clinton in '96, Gore in '00, and Kerry in '04. I didn''t vote Clinton in '92 because I was 16. Just FYI...

[Paladin]

46. The Democratic Party HAS Dealt With The Gun Issue....

...by de-emphasizing it into irrelevance for this campaign season. If individual candidates like Ms. Duckworth want to raise the issue in their heavily urban districts, I think such decisions need to be respected.

And I accept that you and some other Democratic gun activists are doing what you're doing in good faith, even if I disagree with you. But you have to understand that one "Double Leg Amputee Tammy Duckworth Is Shooting Democrats In The Foot" thread wipes out the impact of fifty good-faith posts about Democratic gun policy. And the fact that that thread is still up after 6 days, with over 90 posts as of this being written, is a real indictment of the way things are down in the Gungeon, now. I stopped posting down there after the Cheney shooting incident; I feel better than ever about that decision.....

[krispos42]

50. And I like how they have dealt with it

And I know you disagree and have no problem with that. Life is boring without debate, no?

What I had a problem with was the national, official Democratic party position on gun control and how that policy impacted our ability to get elected. One of Tammy's planks is strict gun control, and that is her platform, and, barring Divine or Diebold interference, the voters will decide if she will be the one to represent them in DC. I hope she wins, not because I agree with her on gun control but because we probably agree on a couple of dozen more issues of vital importance.

The legacy of the Democratic party is that we let people of her opinion make national policy. Not was it only a disaster for us and, ultimately the country, but that legacy will haunt for years. I frankly don't understand how for the LOVE OF GOD Reaganomics avoided becoming a bad legacy that haunted the GOP for decades (lots of slick marketing, I guess) but it looks like several issues will be the albatross around the Republican's neck for decades. The problem is that, while the GOP albatrosses are both many and more offensive, they did not directly impact the owning and purchasing habits of the American people, and the AWB did.

When Howard Dean said it was an issue that should be left to the states, I feel he made the right choice, and we should support that viewpoint. The reason the gun owners are worried about Tammy is that she, backed by her constituents, will advocate for urban-value gun control laws on the entire country (again), and the reason I am worried about her message is that it will cause gun owners to vote for the Dark Side. She is not going to tell her constituents "if you want gun contol, talk to the state legislature". She is going to try to do something about it on a national level, whether it be reviving the COPS program or the AWB or some other item.

[buddysmellgood]

38. Great, you identified parts of the sentence. Now remember the people and

the militia are the same entity. The courts have ruled on this.

[hlthe2b]

4. Did somebody's cheese slip off their cracker, tonight?

:evilgrin:


(i.e., and we should be upset, why?)

[Red Right and BLUE]

5. SO over it.

:hi:

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. ...and FDR rounded up Asians and put them into camps.

So we need to remember that if a Democrat does it, it's not open for debate! Get the fuck over it!

[Journeyman]

11. Touché. . .

be careful, though, there are intolerant people here, starting posts. . .

[MazeRat7]

7. Well thank heaven none of them own a Pit Bull..... *tee hee (n/t)

[Temporary1]

8. People have dirty habits sometimes,

if it doesn't get in the way of their politics, so be it.

[mikelewis]

10. I can't get over it... it consumes me with despair...

... and I don't even know what the hell you're talking about...

Sorry, I'm just drunk and depressed because I'm out of cigarette's... I think I'll just go shoot myself.

[question everything]

17. Thanks for the laugh (nt)

[Gabi Hayes]

22. long as you don't run somebody over with the open liquor in your car,

on the way to the 7-11. and don't breathe your second hand smoke on him as you hold your .45 in his face while completing your robbery

[Jamastiene]

26. Tehehe.

:rofl:

Best.Response.Yet.

[Mr_Spock]

12. Shame there are bullies on the left and right who try to control the debate

It's no better when the left is holier than thou, than when the right does it (I know the sentence is not english).

[Phredicles]

13. Just because I like and admire these three individuals

that doesn't mean I have to like everything they do, or like those things as a result of their being done by them.

I also love the Rolling Stones. I guess that means I gotta get the fuck over heroin addiction too, huh? :eyes:

[LSdemocrat]

15. Umm, regulating stuff is a hell of a lot different than banning stuff

I don't think anyone here would think that those items should be completely unregulated or completely illegal. People just have differences deciding what regulations are reasonable. Of course it would be nice if people could express those differences respectfully.

[stepnw1f]

43. Ding, Ding, Ding....(nt)

[nam78_two]

16. There should be a rule

that any DUer bitching about DUers doing x,y and z should post a link to the threads where people are doing x, y and z. And if its just one person or one thread that would seem like a HUGH generalization ;) considering how many posts there are every minute and how many people are posting.

Because often the person posting seems to be the only one who has seen said holier than thou DUers, pessimistic DUers, DUers who won't vote,DUers who hate smokers or whatever their pet peeve is :P.....

[springhill]

18. I think I remember hearing somewhere that Jon Stewart quit.

[nemo137]

54. Might be thinking of KO

After Jenning's died, he rather publicly gave up his pipe and cigars, and did segments of quitting on Countdown.

[Bigmack]

19. Damn... I can handle...

the guns and booze.

But JON... JEEEEZEZ... DON'T SMOKE!

We need you. You smoke you die.

PLEEEEZE!

[Oeditpus Rex]

29. And if you don't smoke

you don't die? :shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. Wooohooo!

I'm gonna quit and become immortal! Flippin' sweet!

:rofl:

[Bigmack]

48. Both my parents died of...

.. smoking related cancer & both my wife's parents died of smoking related illness.

I won't argue smoking with anyone.

If you don't know it's deadly, I won't be able to convince you.

[Oeditpus Rex]

52. Life is deadly

Or, as the old saying goes:

Eat right.

Exercise.

Don't smoke.

Die anyway.

[liberaltrucker]

20. Post this at Freepland

Heads are guaranteed to explode!

:rofl:

[Ken Burch]

21. So the next Democratic president can appoint all three of them

to run the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. As a job share thing.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. According to his IMDb biography,

Jon Stewart quit smoking in Dec 2000. Are you saying that Al Gore is some kind of raving drunk, or merely that he drinks socially? Are there any people on DU who have raised strong objections to modest amounts of social drinking? And I've encountered more pro-gun than anti-gun sentiment on this site.

I'm not really sure what it is that you're drivelling on about. :shrug:

[JohnnyRingo]

25. I can't support anyone who owns guns, smokes, or drinks to excess.....

Ooooops!
That would make me a hypocritical Democrat.

*Never mind*

[upi402]

27. huh?

Somebody is worried about that shit?

Christ, it's like worrying about a hangnail when you have a sucking chest wound.

[Rageneau]

31. Just so long as nobody masturbates.

[rug]

33. That's the republican vice.

[Nikia]

49. Masturbators are discriminated against

They aren't allowed to do it in bars, restaurants, or other buildings in public. Talk about Facism.

[burythehatchet]

35. I smoke fermented guns

[originalpckelly]

36. There is nothing wrong with drinking or owning guns...

except if you drink while you have a gun:

[mmonk]

41. So what are their rationalizations?

I need to know since I own a rifle and shotgun, smoke, and drink beer at hockey games and have wine with my dinner.

[stepnw1f]

42. Heh? I Don't Get It.....

I guess there are folks who have a problem with those things, but usually its something regarding each thing you listed. Issues regarding what you have posted are not as black and white as you have stated.

I have no problem with gun ownership, just as long as there is regulation on gun sales. I don't wish to live in a society that needs a gun in every house to feel "safe". Hunting is "a" ok with me. A pro-gun nut will try to make this statement "black and white". I expect it...

I used to smoke and still have no problem with others choosing to smoke themselves... just please have clue as to how second hand smoke affects others around you.

I am a recovering alcoholic, therefore I no longer drink alcohol... does that mean I rail against drinkers? Nope....

These issues are not black and white as you seem to make it out to be. Usually this is something the right wing does in painting liberals as intolerant towards those who claim to accept the things you listed.... let's not fall into the right wing bullshit please, it's divisive and dishonest.

[roamer65]

45. Show me a man without vices, and I'll show you a man without...

virtues.

-A. Lincoln

[aikoaiko]

47. We'll do OK as long as we stay away from FEDERAL BANS.

Not complete bans. Not even partial bans. I know to some people banning semi-auto AK style guns, semi-auto AR-15s, etc sounds like a good idea, but bans like that are as meaningless and counterproductive as banning 80+ proof alcohol. A federal partial gun ban is loser issue for us.

In fact, we could really score points with gun people by eliminating the rules that ban non-US made semi-automatic long guns. The exact same gun if made in the US would be legal. I never understood why those rules were in place --- protectionism?

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

53. I do all three and

I've not had any problems posting here, so far. I don't get where you're coming from. Perhaps I've missed something here.?
:shrug: :smoke: :toast:

[rasputin1952]

55. Locking

Just getting a tad to warm in this thread after the flame tipped hook went out.