Karl and Cheney are going to be next: Baker's choice of Gates for S.o.D. says it all

[berni_mccoy]

At first, I could not figure out why Bush replaced Rummy today. TODAY. Especially when Pelosi ASKED him to do it FIRST THING this morning. My guess is that the Bush admin informed her before they announced it. She obviously used that information to her political advantage.

But it really got me to wondering WTF was going on with the Bush admin. Then it hit me. Not long ago, Baker, the Bush family adviser, stepped in to help clean up the Iraq mess created by the WHIG. He must have been planning Rummy's resignation all along. The Iraq war plan, instigated by PNAC and the WHIG has been an absolute disaster and the Bush family needs to do MAJOR DAMAGE CONTROL. Somehow Bush has to come out of this still standing. And I bet that there have been discussions behind the scenes about impeachment (or lack there of) in exchange for certain changes in the administration. The first of which is Rummy. But why now? Because with all the election news taking up all the talk and airtime, the rummy thing will fade quickly. Not a lot of attention will be given to it.

Now if this is true, Karl and Cheney can't be far behind. Karl has really screwed the pooch (Santorum style) when it comes to managing the evangelical base and Cheney is Rumsfeld's bosom buddy. I bet Bush Sr. and Baker like Cheney less than they did Rumsfeld. Expect medical conditions for Cheney to worsen before the end of the year.

So where does this take us? Who will replace Cheney? I think the obvious answer is McCain. While McCain has not been liked well by the RW base, I think that there will be much talk of RW soul searching and the need to be more moderate as they will claim (and already have been) that the Dems have moved to the right in order to win big this time. The RW leadership will convince its base that McCain had the right mindset all along and return the Bush administration to a more maintstream Republican organization. We will change strategy in Iraq and both the Dems in Congress and Bush (and whoever is left) will win politically. Bush will end up leaving office somewhere around 40-50% approval and set McCain up for a very STRONG INCUMBENT position in the whitehouse for his Presidential run in 2008. McCain will then select, guess who, Jeb Bush as his V.P. running mate, keeping the Bush Family in Power for what they believe will be several more years.

Thoughts?

[cspanlovr]

1. Its been a political disaster for them, but what do they care?

They have all the money. mission accomplished.

[liberaldemocrat7]

25. I live in Nassau County NY and Republicans here used to play leapfrog

During the 1980's Republicans in Nassau County would play leap frog.

A county executive who has served several terms would resign during the spring of the election year and get a cushy job and the Republican party would get to install another Republican as County executive. That appears correct. They did not have an interim election. They just appointed the guy so he could get slim incumbency for about 6 months. The election would come November and he would get reelected.

We also had a board of supervisors, which turned out unconstitutional as the supervisors would also serve as a town supervisor. So he has a legislative job in the county AND a supervisors job in the town and the votes got weighted by the number of people in each town.

Now we have a county legislature and a county executive, with a Democratic County executive and a Democratic majority in the county legislature.

Anyway, perhaps Booosh will have Cheney resign and designate McCain or some other person as Vice president who will then run in 2008 and have an edge for the nomination for the Republican ticket.

[Lefty-Taylor]

2. I think you make some astute points. I've been wondering how they'd get Jeb involved. And that's the

most logical -- albeit depressing -- scenario I've heard yet. Sigh.

[MADem]

3. Who will replace Big Dick?

Could it be Snugglebunny McCain?

[conscious evolution]

6. It will be who ever Mdame Pelosi allows them to choose.

A new VP has to be confirmed by Congress if I remember correctly.
Who will Nancy pick?
hhmmmmmm....
Cheney? He is definitely going down.Soon.

[MADem]

7. NO--the SENATE advises and consents. McCain would sail through.

The collegiality of the Senate overrides all. Why do you think that asshole ASHCROFT got confirmed when he was a schmuck? Collegiality....

[conscious evolution]

19. MY bad

brain fart on my end

[YDogg]

16. Big Dick ain't going down without a fight.

[Karenina]

35. Naughty MADem!!!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :spank::spank::spank:

[MADem]

43. Heh, heh....it's the SMILE on McCain's face that does it!!! NT

[Dems Will Win]

49. It will be CondoLIAR

She will pardon all of them and run as an incumbent BLACK WOMAN VP.


I'LL GET YOU AND YOUR LITTLE YELLOW DOG TOO!

[Rosco T.]

4. Not a chance for McCain... imagine this picture all over the campains for '08

[MADem]

8. I like mine better (see post three) NT

[riderinthestorm]

15. Me too. His hand right on the Chimperor's dick. So apt. nt

[Jacobin]

5. Poppy fired Cheney and Rumsfeld

The neocons are gone....ALL gone. Cheney will be allowed to sit quietly in his bunker with his fucking mouth shut until the end of his term

[MADem]

9. And the guy replacing Rummy wasn't just Poppy's CIA guy, he was also

SCOWCROFT's Principal Assistant. He knows how to get down in the weeds and fix shit.

Bush One Crew is now running the White House. While they weren't rocket scientists, at least they didn't get everyone in the world pointing weapons at us. Hopefully they'll be able to turn back the tide of world hate directed at us. And since Condi was a BushOne protegee, maybe Poppy can get her ass in line and correct her trajectory.

The best bit is that decisions will be taken without any Cheneyshit. The added bright spot? Maybe that hideous creature Lynne will slither away and we needn't look at her anymore.

[Karenina]

36. Yeah, THAT Robert Gates...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2639900

[MADem]

40. Hell, no one is averring there will be less corruption (that's genetic to the Bushes)

only that there will be more COMPETENCE to go along with the usual order of corruption.

The competence factor is so lacking in the current administration that a competent, corrupt administration looks good by comparison.

[Karenina]

45. I don't know what to say...

[MADem]

46. I know...it's sad, isn't it, that we can sigh with relief that a capable set of crooks are now in

charge? It's a little like having to choose between Idi Amin, the murderous dictator who tortured and let his people starve in fetid, unsanitary Third World conditions, and Saddam Hussein, the murderous dictator who tortured people but kept the electric lights working?

They both suck, but at least with Saddam, you can watch TV!!!

[Tellurian]

14. I don't believe thats True, not yet!

Cheney won't be moved from that HILL. It will take dynamite to remove him.
Cheney's not going anywhere soon. I'll guarantee, Cheney has enough on Baby
to send him to the slammer for a very long time. So, the game is on..

Cheney has "evidence" as his insurance policy, so they have to come to agreeable
terms. For now, Poppy is strategically moving his men around the chess board,
while Cheney is hunkering down preparing for a siege, if necessary.

[MADem]

20. Well, Cheney bought a house last year right next to Rummy's on the eastern shore... NT

[Tellurian]

22. I know that..the house if in VA..

If I'm not mistaken, he's having a house built to his specifications.
New house construction can take anywhere from 1-2 yrs to completion.

Cheney is most likely having the house outfitted with all state of the art
security features, including an underground nuke-proof facility.

Cheney is going to stay hunkered down in the WH, till the bitter end
in 09'..imo..

[kskiska]

24. I read in a recent Cheney biography

that Lynne is interested in running for office, possibly senator, a la Hillary. Which state? Maryland, I would imagine, considering the new house.

[Tellurian]

33. Could be Virginia, as well...nm

[MADem]

31. It wasn't new. It was an old mansion in ST Michaels MD. Lynne furnished it

straight out of the POTTERY BARN....

He's been living there for a year or so. The neighbors hate the helos. It's right next door to Rummy's place (aptly named, see the text below).

See here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/18/news/letter.php


Under a no-flight zone
By Elisabeth Bumiller International Herald Tribune

MONDAY, DECEMBER 19, 2005


ST. MICHAELS, Maryland There are motorcades of black SUVs on Talbot Street, buzzing Chinooks overhead and a no-flight zone that has private pilots in an uproar. But Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have found peace and quiet in their new weekend hawks' nests, even if their presence in this Chesapeake Bay retreat causes a racket in town.

"It gives you something to talk about," said Norm Tuer, a project manager for one of the area's busy construction companies. "Good for real estate values, too."

As anybody would tell you last week at the Carpenter Street Saloon, St. Michaels' unofficial town hall, two years ago Rumsfeld paid $1.5 million for Mount Misery, a former bed and breakfast with a checkered past. (The 19th-century red-brick house on 4.5 waterfront acres, or 1.8 hectares, was built by Edward Covey, a notorious breaker of rebellious slaves who beat the abolitionist Frederick Douglass on and off there in 1834.)

Cheney, Rumsfeld's friend of three decades, followed this autumn with his own weekend purchase, Ballintober, a sprawling $2.6 million Cape Cod on nine waterfront acres just minutes from the defense secretary. Cheney's house, built in the 1930s, has formal gardens, a wisteria arbor and a 150-foot, or 45-meter, dock reaching out into San Domingo Creek, an inlet of the bay....This is the un-Camp David of duck decoys and oyster fests, a place where the two prosecutors of the war in Iraq amuse each other and seem poised to retire after 2008. Neither is part of President George W. Bush's regular Camp David court....Instead, Cheney and Rumsfeld keep company here with their own, like Nicholas Brady, the Treasury secretary under the first President Bush who has a farm along the Choptank River near the town of Trappe. Locals recall seeing Cheney, Rumsfeld and Brady strolling along the open roads here a few Thanksgivings ago with Justice Antonin Scalia, a hunting buddy of the vice president.

Cheney, as it happens, likes to shoot the local geese and ducks, and caused a minor ruckus when he stopped in this autumn for shotgun shells at Albright's Gun Shop in nearby Easton....The main discordant note in the cheery local patter comes from private aircraft pilots, who have bitterly protested to the Federal Aviation Administration about a no-flight zone over Ballintober that extends out a nautical mile in radius and up 1,500 feet. ....

[Tellurian]

32. Cheney's homesite

The Dick already owns a property in McLean, VA...(and had it torn down) The article, prompting my memory refereed to VA as the place an article stated Cheney plans to retire to at the end of his term.

Here is a link to the "flap" over the low Tax Assessment in Cheney's luxurious neighborhood.

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/10/22/10630/690

Richard B. Cheney, for example, bought a property for $1.35 million that is listed as settling on 12 January 2000. This is .9 of an acre on Chain Bridge Road which is one of the top-end streets in McLean, which is one of the richest portions of Fairfax County, which is one of the richest counties in the United States. As of today (the 2006 assessment), this property is assessed for $1.045 million, or less than 80 percent of what the Cheneys paid for the property over six years ago. This is, of course, a time period in which the average Fairfax home owner has seen assessments increasing by far more than 10 percent per annum (generally far more). Now, the land assessment did go up by 25 percent this year ... while the assessment on the land portion of my assessment went up by 50 percent.

Now, note that there was a structure on the property when the Cheneys bought it. When the Cheneys bought the property, it had a tax assessment of $841,600 - of which $413,200 was for a structure on the property, which the Cheneys immediately had torn down. The 2000 assessment of $841,600 then fell to $450,000 for just the land in 2001 (a $21,600 increase - less than five percent - over the 2000 land value).

To believe that the Cheneys' tax assessment has been reasonable over the past six years requires, in part, an assumption that the land was worth less without the structure than with it - when the Cheneys first action (in essence) after purchase was to tear it down. This is (sadly) a rather common real estate transaction, the property that is a "tear down". As any realtor or real estate investor knows clearly, a "tear down" is valuable for its land - and the existing structure actually has negative value because it costs money to have it torn down and the debris hauled away.

From realtor acquaintances, they have estimated the Cheney's property's land value between $2.5 to $6 million (or even more). Or, to take it another way, that Cheney has been underpaying his 'fair share of real estate taxes' by anywhere from $15,000 to $50,000 (or more) per year -- year in and year out.


So in this context, I guess Cheney plans to build a new house on the now vacant property prior to his retirement in 09'

[MADem]

38. Who knows? Perhaps a closer-in pied-a-terre, or maybe just an investment property

that he didn't feel like keeping up, and given that he is VP and the county records are open (and on the web), he didn't feel like having the property managed and owned through a shell company. He can probably make just as much dough on the land alone, letting it sit for awhile, without having to deal with pesky maintenance issues. Or maybe he wants to gift it to the kiddies, with a big check to build to suit.

Of course, they can SAY the thing is "inside the beltway" but it's not all that convenient an address if you're going to work with the rest of the working stiffs--you're better off living in unincorporated Fairfax to get into town (at least you can take the metro)--but then, those bums usually have "the car" pick them up before rush hour even gets started.

How many $millions in tax revenue is Fairfax County leaving uncollected by not fairly (and unevenly) assessing luxury homes?
Too many people who could afford to be paying their fair share are not being asked to. This is the case for Zbignew ... Colin ... Dick ... Frank ... and too many other rich and famous residents of McLean.

I used to live in the county, and they were having 'governmental troubles' when I bailed out of there--a few crooks, bums and incompetents....they should start collecting their fair share from those bastards; they sure as hell screwed the life out of average homeowners.

[Tellurian]

42. The reference to Cheney living in Virgina

came a few weeks ago, when Bush allegedly purchased a 98,980 acre ranch in Paraguay. That particular article mentioned Bush may be retiring in Paraguay and as a afterthought mentioned Cheney choice for Home Sweet Home at the end of his term was going to be in Virginia. It was sheer luck I found something to reference back to the article's claim because at the time, I didn't give it much thought. With the election barely over, trying to google anything with Virginia automatically referred you to the (uncertain) VA Senatorial election results.

At any rate, if his future plans include living in VA, and the original property has been torn down, he may very well be contemplating building a compound. :rofl: He's gonna need it! :spank:

[MADem]

44. He'd be better off doing that in MD--he's got no damn LAND in McLean

relative to the rest of his neighbors.

Ya gotta wonder what he was thinking when he bought the joint...it could well be that it was a HEDGE buy, in the event that he DIDN'T win the November elections, and he was planning on doing some of that shitty Heritage Foundation work that he and Lynnie were so fond of doing, so they needed a place that wasn't in Texas to hang out in while they were think-tanking. Once the GOP won, er, stole the election, he had no need of the place....

[Tellurian]

47. Just a fleeting thought..

It could be, since the Dems have regained power all these think tankers have been let go.
Sort of ironic, if they are filling out unemployment applications and where it comes to the
block asking what was their former job or line of work, an appropriate response, covering all the bases,
would be...LOSER!

ok, I'm done...back to work!

[MADem]

48. Well, there are a SHITLOAD of staff jobs to be filled by Democratic staffers!

And a shitload of GOP asswipes who will be pounding the pavement come January!! All of those GOP reps and Senators who lost, well, their little staffers hitched their wagons to the wrong star.

They won't get hired by the Democratic incoming reps, they'll be looking for jobs anywhere they can find them, but that's a HUGE number of outgoing GOP types for even the lobbying and peripheral "congress-ish" businesses to absorb, especially since they are all the "wrong flavor" for the current Congress.

Gee, maybe they can get jobs in retail at the Pentagon City mall...heck, they always need extra help this time of year. Hope they put a little money aside--it can get AWFULLY expensive in DC over the holidays!!!

Ho, ho, HO!!!!!!

[Horse with no Name]

10. I agree with much of what you say except

America won't be ready for another Bush in the White House right now.
Not going to happen.
However, I think a plausible scenario is that Jeb will move to Texas.
I think Rick Perry will be chosen as the VP candidate and he will appoint Jeb to the governorship.
He will then be groomed for the White House.
Just not now.
They will attempt to resurrect their agenda. They are very patient people.

[riderinthestorm]

17. Jeb is FAR too valuable in Florida. I can't see them moving him

he's married a Hispanic. He's done too many deals with the expat Cubanos....

He'll run from Florida, that's my hunch. I like the rest of your scenario though....

[MADem]

21. Perry's GAY. It;s a big open secret. He can get away with it in TX, but

nationally, there will be too many eyes on him. Especially with all the post-Foley outing fever going on...they'll be all over Governor Goodhair like a cheap suit.

If Perry does anything in future on the national stage, it'll be the Senate--not the Presidency.

[berni_mccoy]

26. I agree with your reasoning. I believe you are right

Bush family doesn't necessarily need another Bush in office to stay in power...

It's also too soon for Jeb as you pointed out, but I don't think Perry will be the VP chosen... maybe as a cabinet member, but not V.P.

[lonestarnot]

11. Sounds like a pig in a poke to me.

Bushitler can't pull over another bushitler in the W.H. NO WAY NO HOW! They will attempt a McCain shoe-in, but another bushitler will kill that.

[bunny planet]

12. I recommend Greg Palast's book Armed Madhouse to shed some light on

the battle behind the scenes between Jim Baker (counsel to the Saudi Royals and with an OFFICE in the WH, why?) and the Neo-Cons. Both had dastardly and money motivated plans for Iraq but both plans were at odds with each other. The Neo-Cons won out in the beginning with Plan B, but now Big Jim, is going back to Plan A. Neither plan had anything to do with National Security, both had to do with oil and OPEC. Very interesting and quick read, as a matter of fact, the inside front and back covers have the summary of what went on between these two factions in summary, so you don't even have to read the whole book to get the gist. Jim Baker hasn't just been brought in now, he's been behind the scenes since the beginning trying to wrest control away from the NeoCons.

[raysr]

13. 41: "Look sonny, you've

really screwed the pooch now, you and your 'good buddy' Karl, I'M taking over NOW!!"

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. I agree

Poppy and Uncle Jimmie are making the decisions now.

However, I disagree about Jeb. He's got way too many ghosts in his closet and I don't think he's that ambitious anymore. More likely he's heading back to Brickell Ave and cashing in, in the private sector.

[Marie26]

23. Casey is also a member of the Baker Iraq group

Bush 41's power players are quietly replacing the neocons. If Cheney is replaced, I don't think it will be McCain, but a familiar face from Bush Sr.'s inner circle.

[PRETZEL]

27. Karl is totally useless now,

not that he wasn't before, but he is, (at least for a lack of a better term) the political side of the administration. There's no other election coming that Bush will be directly involved in. He serves no other purpose in the WH. He'll be gone very, very shortly (and without fanfare).

I think Cheney stays at least for now. Let's be realistic, he knows where all the skeletons are hidden (mainly because he put them there) that will be used to blackmail Bush (and Poppy for that matter)for as long as he feels he can. There's no love lost between Cheney and Bush Sr. And you know Cheney won't go down without a fight.

My own opinion is that I think McCain has burnt too many bridges. He's proven that he's not the independant person many (including myself)thought him to be. He's cozied up to Bush when he felt politically expediant and has only critized them when he has had his back covered (usually by Sen. Hagel). I've lost an awful lot of respect for Sen. McCain.

Jeb's done. He has verifiable proof of his association with the neo-conservatives that got us into the Iraq War to begin with. His association with them will haunt him for a long time.

My opinion, the person who I think has the most to worry about both in the short and long term future is Condi Rice. She was at one time the darling of the elder Bush administration and would have benefitted so much from their power but her choice to align herself with the Cheney faction was her kiss of death. If Bush Sr. ends up winning this power play within the WH, she should be very worried.

[tiptoe]

34. Karl and Condi may be "useful" to Fitz (...who also may be a factor for Pelosi & Conyers placing

impeachment (Bush) on the backburner...i.e. off the table...for the time being.)

I suspect Pelosi and Conyers aren't ignoring Fitzgerald's investigations, as they discuss/plan tactics for removing potential perpetrators of high crimes and misdemeanors from high office. Moreover, clearing out the Neocon implants in gov't agencies will be a Herculean task, like cleaning the Augean stables.

[MoonRiver]

28. * is now the Democrats butt boy!

He'll do the bidding of OUR Congress or face impeachment! Sweeet!
:rofl:

[krkaufman]

39. Right... Pragident Bush.

[FourScore]

29. Of course! you're absolutely right, berni mccoy!!!

Baker is picking the SoD! That's why it's someone from 41's cabinet! D'uh. Why didn't I think of that?

What do you think it tells us about the direction they will take with the war?

It is so obvious 43 is just a puppet. It gets more and more obvious over time. I would love to know who really runs the show in Washington. Baker is clearly one of the ones. I doubt they will get rid of Cheney because he is also from the days of 41. They had to get rid of Rumsfeld, though. They didn't have a choice on that one.

If they do get rid of Cheney, I'm not so sure McCain would take the VP position. Bush is so toxic right now, I think it would hurt McCain. But maybe I'm wrong. It's an interesting theory.

I know 41 never liked Rove, so maybe he is on the way out. But at this point...I just don't know.

Definitely, you are right about Gates!!!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. I *would* say...

...that I doubt they'd replace Cheney, but then again I said that repeatedly about Rumsfeld and look how wrong I was on that.

[Strelnikov_]

37. Oh, Don't Be Such A Depressive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2660009&mesg_id=2660513

/sarcasm

I agree with you that the BFEE elders have taken over. And up to a few months ago I thought exactly like you, the anointed candidate would step in when Cheney resigns for health reasons, with the understanding that Jebbey would be picked as VP.

Now, I think the administration is too radioactive for any viable candidate to touch.

And there is no change in strategy, short of fielding a peacekeeping force of 500,000, that will change the outcome in Iraq. And since this is not politically viable (and it is not clear if even this would work), the deck chairs will continue to be rearranged, and the region that holds nearly all of the WORLDS energetically viable petroleum and natural gas resources will slip into anarchy.

The Democrats need to do two things regarding the Middle East:

1) Push for a WWII level energy transformation to prepare for the day when most of the worlds petroleum and natural gas exports go offline, virtually overnight.

2) Run Murtha's plan to buy us enough time to get a running start on 1) above.

3) Keep reminding the public who got us into this mess. They keep asking for a plan, but the reason they're called quagmires, Catch 22's, etc., is that there is no solution, except not to play, and that bird sailed long ago.

[madinmaryland]

41. If they have been planning this, then why wait until after the election?

Wouldn't it have made sense to do it several months ago and diffuse the whole rummy issue? They might have kept the senate, and kept the house much closer.

:shrug: