how about dissolving iraq, and dividing it between Iran and Saudi Arabia?

[dysfunctional press]

and possibly Turkey and/or Syria...or even kuwait?

since the political divisions are artificial ones instituted not all that long ago(in relation tio the long history of the region) by the british.

it seems to be shaping up toward a iran/saudi conflict over the sunni/shia situation when/once the americans leave, so why not just carve the land up between the neighboring nations and say goodbye to iraq for good?

btw- i would reccomend the divisions be determined by the united nations, and u.n. peacekeepers used to oversee the process.

what are the pros and cons of this type of arrangement?

[uppityperson]

1. How about Kurdistan?

[dysfunctional press]

5. what's Turkey's problem with a Kurdish state...?

if it's feasible- having a Kurdistan could be a good thing as well, with the rest divided between Iran and SA

[uppityperson]

9. Turkey admin is concerned over losing part of Turkey to Kurdistan

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. There are many Kurds in Turkey

would would like their part of Turkey to become part of an independent Kurdistan. The Turks don't want to give up the land, and would probably see a Kurdistan carved out of the former Iraq as a haven for Kurdish seperatists to launch strikes into Turkey.

[BrotherBuzz]

12. A free Kurdish state would be to attractive to the Kurds living in Turkey

Turkey has enough problems with them now, and the creation of a Kurdish state would cause a Civil war in Turkey.

[DemoDemoCratCrat]

26. That is the conventional thinking

but Turkey might prefer a planned realignment to the chaos of millions of refugees which
might give more strength to the Kurdish separatists in Turkey.
If only all sides can agree.

[NoodleBoy]

2. I think it'd just be seen as another western power redrawing country lines with no sense of local

identity.

I agree with the whole confederated Iraq thing-- basically the same system India is governed by, where each state has a little more autonomy then a US state has.

[dysfunctional press]

13. rather than having the lines drawn by western nations-

let those in the region agree on the boundries, with the u.n. overseeing the process, if necessary.

[mike_c]

3. how about leaving that decision to the Iraqis...?

:shrug:

[nam78_two]

6. What he said/nt

[QuestionAll...]

19. what the both of you said.

we all know how great the great western civilisation map maker/dividers are by history, don't we? ;(
divisions like that will only spread the sickness that bush has infected Iraq with to a much wider region.

but then I tend to believe that was the plan all along. planned chaos.

[kiahzero]

7. We have a moral and legal obligation to help get them stabilized again. (n/t)

[mike_c]

our LEGAL obligation is to get out of their country...

...since the invasion was illegal. We have a moral obligation to get our boot heels off their necks.

[dysfunctional press]

22. we disbanded and destroyed their military and infrastructure-

we cannot leave them unable to defend themselves.

[mike_c]

25. so now it's the white man's burden...?

We cannot leave them to defend themselves? They seem to be doing a pretty credible job of defending themselves against US.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. we cannot leave them unable to defend themselves

from us. It is a classic protection scam. We are their major threat.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Yeah, by pulling out immediately.

[nam78_two]

15. We don't seem to have done a good job of "stabilizing" them yet eh?/nt

[dysfunctional press]

8. the point is- it seems that SA and Iran are both planning on having a say

as to what happens- the divisions in the region are more religious than political to begin with.

[mike_c]

18. and why shouldn't they...?

If the Iraqi people are allied with their coreligionists in other nearby countries, that is up to them. Unless you mean to suggest that Iran and SA are going to launch invasions of their own-- those would be just as illegal as the American invasion was. But INFLUENCE is another matter. That should be for the Iraqis to decide. It is certain that they don't especially want our influence.

[dysfunctional press]

21. iran and saudi arabia have already said as much-

each saying that they would defend their side of the ethnic divisions- which are much stronger than the national divisions to begin with.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. They live there. It is a regional matter.

Of course they are going to have a say. The party that doesn't have a valid position here would be us. We don't live there, it is not our country, they are not our people. We broke into their nation, wrecked the joint, tried to set up an operation to control their oil, and it hasn't worked. We need to get out.

[Tom Joad]

4. How about letting the people of Iraq determine their future, and the US

getting the FUCK OUT. NOW

[dysfunctional press]

10. if the U.S. were to get the FUCK OUT, NOW-

the people of Iraq wouldn't be determining their future, so much as the Saudi and Iranian armies that would be coming across the borders- Iraq HAS NO ARMY to defend itself- WE broke it WE bought it- we ABSOLUTELY CANNOT just get the FUCK OUT. NOW, nor anytime very soon, realistically.

[mike_c]

16. ahh, the pottery barn logic rears it's lame head again....

Look at it another way-- you break it, you take responsibility for it. You do the responsible thing. If you break a mug in the Pottery Barn, the responsible thing to do is pay for it. If you launch an illegal war of invasion and a brutal foreign occupation, replete with installing a puppet government beholden for its very ability to continue drawing breath, the responsible thing to do is to STOP COMMITTING THE CRIME.

The Pottery Barn logic simply does not apply in this case. You don't fix something by continuing to smash it.

[dysfunctional press]

20. so- you reccomend leaving iraq undefended...

and let iran and saudi arabia fight it out...?

and don't forget turkey doing the kurdish crush up north.

[Tom Joad]

24. Iraq is defending itself against the US war machine. they are doing a good job.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. saudi arabia is unlikely to fight anything out.

They hired us for that job. What they said, more or less, is that they would provide material aid for the sunni militias in order to minimize Iran's victory.

Iran won. Bin Laden and al Qaeda won. We lost. Get over it.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. The Pottery Barn disagrees with the Pottery Barn Logic.

If you break it it is considered lossage. You do not own it and they do not make you pay for it.

[kiahzero]

17. Don't forget Turkey.

I think that if there were a power vacuum to that extent, the northern portion of Iraq would get swallowed into Turkey.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. 50,000 dead Kurds later, perhaps. nt.

[kiahzero]

33. So...

If you agree that Turkey would get involved in such a power vacuum, and you believe that 50,000 Kurds would die as a result... why would you endorse us creating that power vacuum?

[Warren Stupidity]

37. Actually I think Turkey would be unwise to get involved

and quite possibly would lose the ensuing guerilla war against the Kurdish militias, who have been preparing for this since '91 when they set up their autonomous region.

What should we do about Kurdistan? Is that your question? We should do exactly what we did for them after Gulf Farce I: declare and enforce a no fly zone. We won't even do that though, we will abandon the Kurds as the west has always done, for political expediency.

The power vacuum has already been created. Our occupation has failed. The Iraqi regime is master of the green zone while the sectarian militias control the emerging new reality of mesopotamia. We can accept the reality on the ground now, six months from now, or two years from now, at whatever additional cost to our own blood and treasure, but we are not going to fix this situation. We have no dog in this hunt. We do not belong there. It is not our land. They are not our people. We need to go home.

[Tom Joad]

23. No reason to continue this criminal action. US military action is the

worst option. It has already slaughtered enough Iraqis, tortured enough, bombed enough homes.

I have nothing for contempt for those politicians that say we must continue in Viet... i mean Iraq.

[Malikshah]

27. Although the modern state of Iraq was created after WWI, there

has historically been an area known as "al-`iraq" in this region.

There *is* a cultural pattern in the region in and around Baghdad.

Personally, I second the post that argues for self-identification.

Self-determination is key

[Warren Stupidity]

28. How about it isn't ours to dissolve or divide? nt.

[Junkdrawer]

35. Maybe after the Saudi / Iranian War...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2638823&mesg_id=2638823

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. And, we can divide up the USA between the UK, Canada, Mexico & France.

Since the political divisions were artificially instituted by the Americans not all that long ago.

[madrchsod]

38. read this from" konfused kid"

http://ejectiraqikkk.blogspot.com/
Iraqi Konfused Kid