Christmas, Pagans and Religious Divergence

[MagickMuffin]

Here is a very good article concerning how Christmas was stolen from the Pagans....

Not only does the author enlighten us about the Yule Tide Season, but also writes about the discrimination against Pagan soldiers.

Enjoy!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20061211/cm_usatoday/christmaspagansandreligiousdivergence&printer=1

[MagickMuffin]

1. the Origins of Christmas

from the article:

For Christmas is, in its origins and its symbolism, perhaps the most pagan-inspired of all Christian holidays. Its dating derives from the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia, which was determined by the winter solstice, that astronomical point in the year after which the periods of sunlight on Earth lengthen.

And that's not all that contemporary Christians have in common with neo-pagans. Most of the popular symbols surrounding Christmas - evergreen trees and other greenery, mistletoe and holly, the Yule log, candles and bonfires and holiday lights, mystical spirits with the ability to fly and to enter and leave a house through its chimney, tricksters who treat or taunt little children, not to mention those elves - all derive from older, pre-Christian Europe.

[MagickMuffin]

2. Veterans Affairs recognizes 38 religious symbols for soldiers' graves

last post from the article:

Why this symbolic exclusion that potentially affects about 1,800 active service personnel?

Veterans Affairs recognizes 38 religious symbols for soldiers' graves, and to the casual observer, some of them are odd, indeed. In addition to a variety of Christian crosses and a cross-section of symbols from world religious traditions ranging from Buddhism to Bahai, the "Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers" also include symbols for atheists, the Church of World Messianity (Izonume), Sufism Reoriented, Eckankar, the "Humanist Emblem of Spirit," and the United Church of Religious Science. Given this potpourri of "available" faiths, the exclusion of Wicca, which calls itself the Old Religion and traces its origin to pre-Christian Europe, is baffling.

Or maybe not. The federal authorities have offered no convincing explanation for the banning of this one group's symbol. But the presumption at work seems to be that, while Christian America will tolerate a certain degree of religious divergence, there is something about witchcraft that simply crosses the line. "Alternative" religious perspectives are one thing; paganism, quite another.

[papau]

4. First 500 hundred years of Christian worship did well without Christmas on 12/25

But the history of how the date to celebrate the birth was chosen sure makes a pagan's or atheist's day, doesn't it.

Guess the pagan and the Christian will have to learn to share the day. :-)

[MagickMuffin]

7. It would seem to me that the Pagans

have been sharing the season for years. I think the christians have more of a problem with sharing. They seem to like taking and then claiming everything as their own.

[Az]

10. It is the stuff of culture wars

I mean thats what it was. A deliberate attempt to stomp on other people's beliefs. So yeah... we do tend to make something of it when someone is trying to stomp on us with it.

The Weather outside is frightful. Thats cause enough for me to reinforce my ties with humanity by having a party with my loved ones and exchanging gifts and good tidings. I don't need to be judged by some right wing culture warrior insisting that the only valid reason for the season is the birth of some religious figure some 2000 years ago. Particularly when the date is so obviously based on a lie.

For me this is the season of wishing each other the best. Its about love. I can handle it if a believer relates that to Jesus. I can wish anyone a Merry Christmas and welcome the same. But I don't need the cutlure warriors making a mess of it.

[papau]

18. Who would begrudge others having a good day is truly a Grinch - but for

the day is special in some other way, and you know that for them it is special in some other way, it does not seem wrong to act on that knowledge.

Of course all "rights" follow the rule that your "rights end at the tip of your nose and at the beginning of my nose" :-)

Have a great day.

:-)

the weather outside is frightful (White Christmas - the song: Let It Snow )

Oh the weather outside is frightful,
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

It doesn't show signs of Pause'ing,
And I've bought some corn for popping,
The lights are turned way down low,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

When we finally kiss goodnight,
How I'll hate going out in the storm!
But if you'll really hold me tight,
All the way home I'll be warm.

The fire is slowly dying,
And, my dear, we're still good-bying,
But as long as you love me so,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

[greyl]

3. How could it be stolen if

Pagans still have it? ;)

[MagickMuffin]

5. Nailed me ;-P

ok, I guess I shoulda said they borrowed from the Pagans. However, they think they stole it.

We know better:evilgrin:

[greyl]

6. Well, in the spirit of giving and all...

it could be said that Pagans gave inspiration to Christianity. ;)

[MagickMuffin]

8. They sure did

to bad that the fundies can't understand their own religion:shrug:

The fundies I know are not open AT all. Very sad imo.

[Sherman A1]

9. Good Post

I just emailed the article to a cousin who sends me all the goofy "inspirational" emails (that I just loathe) and the recent "it's a Christmas Tree Dammit" one that has been floating around.

[MagickMuffin]

14. I hope your cousin reads it

its good to be able to counter their attacks on us with their beliefs. But I don't think most have the capacity to tolerate other people beliefs. I speak from experience.

As a child back when I was around 6 yrs old my Sunday School teacher told us there wasn't a Santa Claus. Every since then I kinda equated God with Santa.

Santa God sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So, be good for goodness sake

If you're good you get rewarded with presents/heaven
If you're bad you get a lump of coal/hell...

Please Santa God
I'm trying real hard to be good:evilgrin:

[Sherman A1]

20. I do as well

We will see, if he and his charming wife do read it and maybe "LAYOFF", but I doubt it.... They are just happy to forward every piece of "God Fearin'" inspriational drivel that comes along. They are actually pretty good folks, just tedious in this sense and I know how to hit the delete key, so all is not lost, I suppose.

[magellan]

11. It really is sad that many Christians don't understand the multiple origins

...of modern Christmas rituals, or realize how much they owe to the pagans that it is even celebrated.

[MagickMuffin]

15. Speaking of Rituals

"It really is sad that many Christians don't understand the multiple origins...of modern Christmas rituals"

When they refuse to question their belief, they automatically give up the most important function a person can possess, which is their intellect.
Even by their own standard of belief that God gave them this "divine knowledge" of having intelligence to think for ourselves and somehow that has challenged their faith by thinking about their very own belief system.:eyes:

[magellan]

17. Basically, refusing to use the gift God gave them

Free will and the mind to exercise it -- yet faith trumps reason. Quite a paradox, no?

[MagickMuffin]

19. Exactly,

which gives me reason to smile, knowing that they have placed limitations on themselves.

Of course that also means you can never carry on an interesting conversation with them. Ah well, maybe that's for the best, after all who wants to talk to people about things they will never understand or refuse to believe when it comes to topics that might question their faith.

Don't need a reason to question my faith....:rofl:

[DemBones DemBones]

12. It's too bad everyone can't enjoy Christmas as a cultural holiday, which it

has been for many years. It is a Christian holy day to Christians but informed Christians know that Jesus was almost certainly not born on December 25 and that many Christmas customs have pagan origins. I celebrate it as a Christian holy day but also enjoy the cultural holiday aspects. If everyone would just celebrate it -- or not celebrate it -- in their own way, and stop bickering over it, it could be a wonderful time of year again.

[Az]

13. Enjoy it. Just don't make others enjoy it for the same reasons you do

Thats all that is being asked. But the War on Tolerance insists that there is only one valid reason to celebrate the holiday.

[MagickMuffin]

16. How true

We should be able to celebrate any way we see fit. And of course you noticed who has the problem with the season.
Instead of "rejoicing" in the Season they choose to bring Discomfort and Sorrow, not like when I was growing up when the Season was about Comfort and Joy. It still is for me. I learned the facts about the history of the Season and celebrate it the way I have for years.

[MagickMuffin]

21. kicking for afternoon crowd n/t

:kick: