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OK, Everyone. Fantasize a scenario in which Gore is drafted in 2008.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:16 PM
Original message
OK, Everyone. Fantasize a scenario in which Gore is drafted in 2008.
Is there any way a candidate could get the nom without having run in the primaries? Once upon a time, in the old Smoke-Filled Room era, it was not uncommon for the outcome of the nominating process to actually be decided at the convention, with people horsetrading forces aligning and realigning,& many votes being conducted before there was a nominee. Sometimes the winner was a darkhorse candidate that nobody had even considered seriously until the convention bogged down.

Could it happen again? Could the party turn to anoint someone **cough Gore cough** as the White Knight, even though that person had not entered a single primary?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sure, Easy ....
Edited on Tue Dec-12-06 02:23 PM by ThomWV
All it takes is a failed first vote at the Convention.

It works like this (in my dream). Whoever it is that maligns his fellow Democrats enough during the Primaries goes into the Convention with some number of Delegates committed to him or her. If that number of delegates is not enough to nominate a ticket on the first vote then the convention proceeds with all those votes no longer committed. Now comes the wheeling and dealing, the smoked up back rooms, the political maneuvering.

Whoopee!!!!!!!!

And when it all ends we get Al Gore. Perfect!
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That's far harder than you make it sound...
since presidential candidates since 1968 receive convention delegates based on their performance in the primaries. These delegates, much like electors in the electoral college, are bound to vote for their candidate.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Only on the first ballot.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yep, bound in the first vote, but not after that
Edited on Tue Dec-12-06 02:28 PM by ThomWV
If you don't get a candidate out of the first vote then its up for grabs. Think about it, if delegates could not change their vote after making the one dictated by the vote count back home (I don't believe all states bind their delegates even for the first vote) then if an insufficient number of votes were cast at the Conversion to nominate anyone (because of a large field) then no one could ever be nominated. So, clearly they can change their preference in second or succeeding votes.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes, but historically, that first vote has always prevailed...
Edited on Tue Dec-12-06 02:35 PM by SteppingRazor
Aside from Reagan nearly pulling off an upset at the 1976 Republican Convention, and Ted Kennedy's failed attempt to get Carter's delegates four years later, no one has even come close to upsetting the will of the voter as put forth in the primary elections.

We can certainly debate the morality of this, whether it would be right or wrong to upset the primary winner, but if we use history as an example, then there's no reason to think that this would be possible.

It would, perhaps, be a bit more probable if all states had their primaries on the same day. The tendency of early primaries to influence the later ones makes the scenario you're creating an extremely unlikely one. I'll grant you it's within the realm of possibilities, but the likelihood is so small that it may as well be ruled out as a potential outcome of the convention.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. "Always" = 30 years.
Those of us who can remember JFK being nominated in the middle of the night after umpteen ballots have a somewhat different conception of eternity.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. But that was before the modern primary election...
so it's not relevant to a discussion of the current electoral process.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. To be sure. That's what led to my original question.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Short answer: No.
Long answer: The Democratic convention of 1968, in which Humphrey was selected in a manner you suggest (having not competed in primaries), caused massive rioting after protestors had already been subjected to brutal police oppression. After that, starting with the election of 1972, every state adopted primary elections to avoid another 1968. In the modern world of primary elections, it is simply categorically impossible to have another Humphrey-type candidate.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. no sex threads!
Ha!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Would you want someone who didn't run, and who wasn't voted for?
It seems to me that would circumvent the whole idea of a primary, even of an election.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm not necessarily talking about what I want.
Just what is possible.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Anything is possible
if Buscho causes nuclear wars to break out, the climate changes drastically, there are multiple natural catatstrophes that disrupt voting in primaries--hey, drafting someone might be the only way to get someone nominated.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oooh, my bathing suit area is getting all tingly ...
is that supposed to happen? :shrug:
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. so im not the only dirty bird!
lovely to meet ya! ;)
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. LOL!
Cool!
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. What ThomWV said, but...
In that scenario, I seriously doubt Gore would accept a nomination. I also seriously doubt he would accept the nomination in any type of back-room agreement situation.

IMHO, the only way he would accept being the candidate would be to win primaries - whether it was due to a drafting effort, or his own choice to enter the race. If we want him, we have to encourage him and convince him to run.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. No, let's not. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. Probably not with the "new rules," for Conventions...but maybe we could do
Edited on Tue Dec-12-06 02:46 PM by KoKo01
a "Write In" of his name in the states like Perot supporters did. He could be an Independent but do a Lieberman and say he'd preside over the Executive Mansion like a Democrat.

Or maybe we could write him in as a Dem. Would take alot of work to get him on the Ballot in all states but if we started doing it then it might create a Buzz and Gore could come in late.

I have said before that I didn't think he would want to go through the Primary process because he knows what will be done by the Media and the other candidates to attack him. But...he'd come in if he thought he had a strong support and money behind him.

Pat Buchanan thinks he can do it...but that's probably him being a Devil's Advocate... :shrug:

It was fun in the old days knowing a "Dark Horse" could come in and steal the show...wasn't it.
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. He'll Either Run Or He Won't
Gore does not have to enter the race too early. He's going to be a contender regardless, so why allow more time in the mud.

If Mr. Gore has aspirations, he will announce in mid-late '07. But if he wants it, he won't take any chances, and will go through the primary process like is common.
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brazos121200 Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. I was thinking about this the other day, that if
Hilary and Obama should fight to a draw at the convention, maybe Gore could come in as the "dark horse" at the convention and get the nomination as the comprimise candidate, but then realized that with nearly every state having a primary somebody would already have enough delegates by the end of the primaries. I believe Gore will enter the race no later than late next year and should do well in the primaries.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. You'd have to have a deadlocked convention to draft Gore.
Edited on Tue Dec-12-06 03:06 PM by Sentinel Chicken
And that would mean that Hillary would at some point would have to drop out of the race before the convention. I say that because if she runs and Gore doesn't then the nomination is hers.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Backroom deals happen all the time. I think Iowa (Kerry '04) was a backroom
deal (to get Dean out--too anti-Iraq war). Anyway, our primaries are all now run by Diebold and ES&S, two rightwing corporations who are "counting" all our votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. So who knows what the primaries mean? Will of the people? Doubtful. I think the last primary that was truly pivotal as an expression of the will of the people was California '68, which Bobby Kennedy won, on an anti-Vietnam war platform.

Bang-bang, shoot-shoot. That very night.

I don't mind a brokered deal. You've got a crowd of grass roots Democrats and state pols at the Convention. Can't be all bad. Can't be any worse than Diebold and ES&S. Say, Hillary emerges as Diebold/ES&S's choice, but enough people vote in the primaries to overwhelm the machines and deny her a clear victory. And Obama is a close second. And you have one or two others dividing up the first round Convention vote. And, say the real majority of the party, if not the country (grass roots leftists) revolt against Hillary on the war --keeping in mind that 70%! of the American people want the war ended, and are taking no crap from anybody about it. No LBJ's pretending to be the "peace candidate." (I go way back.) Nobody believes them. We want a REAL candidate who will REALLY end the war--and furthermore will inspire the country to create a more positive vision of itself. And figure some instability by that time--economic, war-related. Jittery country. Enter Al Gore. Eight years of experience in the executive. Many years prior to that in the Senate. Against the war from day one--actually before day one. GREAT speeches on the Bush Junta over the last four years. Has turned into an excellent speaker. On top of the most important issue of the 21st century: global warming. Has a positive new focus for national policy: Say a 5- or 10-year juggernaut push to non-polluting alternative energy. He's been outside the DC hogpen for 7 years, observing, thinking, developing policy. Everybody thinks he should have been president in 2000. He won. He was unfairly denied the office.

And, say, too, that Hillary, Obama and others have undergone a bruising fight, and there is a lot of squabbling. Who could bring them all together? Gore has steadiness and stature. He is a known quantity--to Dems and to the country. He could do that--unite the party. He is furthermore not just tried and true--he's turned into a visionary. He has done the analysis of what's wrong with everything--the economy is resting on the wrong basis: oil, and it's the fundamental cause of war and pollution--and he has a plan.

I could see it happening--easily. A draft of Gore at the Convention. But it's rather a long shot, to get to that point. Too many if's. I think there needs to be a "draft Gore" movement BEFORE the primaries, with people willing to get his name on the ballots of a sufficient number of primaries to make him viable. I do think he wants to do it, by the way. He has not been developing national policy in major speeches, for more than three years now, to go back to being a professor. But he's in a tricky spot--as to a conventional campaign. He is not just anybody--he is the party standard-bearer, which is a strength overall, but his using that strength in the primaries might create the kind of divisions that we would want to prevent. Other candidates might withdraw, or feel resentful. There might not be the kind of debate that we need.

Well, that's as far as my thinking goes. If Gore wants it--and I think he does--he no doubt has a plan. I don't see us achieving any kind of consensus candidate at the moment. It's a bit early, though. The other consensus candidate might be Dean. Wouldn't that be lovely? Obama is an outside possibility as a consensus candidate--but we have such a need for experience and stability, given the Bushite ruination of our country, and I don't know if Obama can really convey that, or IS that. When JFK ran, in 1960, the youngest president ever, the country was extraordinarily stable and prosperous. We had weathered WW II and the Korean War and the McCarthy commie witch-hunting period. All was optimism and the baby boomer future--despite the cloud of the Cold War. This is a very different time--the Bushites have squandered our fortune, and put us in great danger. They have assaulted the Constitution, and let global corporate predators run wild through our government. Congress has been relegated to presidential lapdog--unprecedented in our history. I'm not sure they have the power to impeach Bush-Cheney, despite egregious crimes. That may be why Pelosi put if off the table. And THAT is scary! Anyway, that's why steady, proven people come to mind--Gore, Dean--and why Obama doesn't seem quite adequate. Can you imagine him dealing with the evil rats Bush-Cheney have planted in our secret government--or those the rightwing plant in his campaign? And he hasn't been "swift-boated" yet. Both Gore and Dean have been. They know what they're dealing with. And I don't think Obama does, really. Didn't mean to get off on him. Just trying to explain why I think Gore more fully answers both the party's and the country's needs--with an emphasis on the country's.





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