Iran's leader: 'Zionist regime will soon be wiped out

[Don_1967]

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered.

Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War II as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map," launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state.

Full story:http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/12/iran.holocaust.conference.reut/index.html

[sam sarrha]

1. someone slap that bitch

[cali]

2. Brave, brave Ahmadinejad

surrounded by the likes of David Duke, at a conference whose aim is to spit on the graves of millions of people, makes yet another idiotic pronouncement.

[The Magistrate]

3. Still, Ma'am. We Must Remember

These are simply mis-translations of words of love for Jews all around the world....

'Sometimes love's a hurting thing....'

[cali]

9. Well, at least

his recent pronouncements and this charming little get together of his have put an end to the comments about how he's mistranslated and appears to be a smart leader.

[Dorian Gray]

95. No kidding!

He's really a vile and despicable human being, and this Holocaust denial stuff is proof in highest degree.

[Rockstone]

19. Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

[TheWraith]

20. You realize The Magistrate is being sarcastic, right?

[Rockstone]

24. well, I might have figured as much.

The Magistrate is not usually one to be sarcastic.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. was he talking about the US or Israel?

[Don_1967]

5. In my opinion both

[cali]

7. He was talking about Israel.

He's just a wee bit obsessed.

[nebenaube]

6. Unbelievable...

Unbelievable, really..., given the current level of tension, can anyone believe he would be stupid enough to really say that?

[LSK]

10. whos going to stop him???

He knows the US is bogged down in Iraq and cannot use nukes on him because Russia and China would retaliate. In addition, a full blown war in the gulf would destroy the world economy with $200/barrel oil prices. Well maybe not Europe who wised up years ago in regards to oil use.

[Don_1967]

11. I don't think Israel will put up with him

if he starts any trouble!

[Rockstone]

26. I think that position assumes that Israel can wipe out Iran

I don't know that I would be willing to make that assumption. I think it is in the interest of the nation of Israel to project a strong sense of security, otherwise people might be too afraid to live there and visit. As to the ranking, Israel is 26th in the world in terms of military power. Iran is 16th. See http://www.globalfirepower.com/index.asp

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Israel can wipe Iran

remember, they have "suspected mind you" over 100 nukes

The problem is that if they are forced down that road, either by perception or reality, it will be a disaster for the region and the world

And no, I am not advocating either of them doing anything to the other either

[Rockstone]

33. Where would you draw the line in terms of Israels destructive power?

1 United States
2 Russia
3 China
4 India
5 Germany
6 France
7 Japan
8 Turkey
9 Brazil
10 Great Britain
11 Italy
12 South Korea
13 Indonesia
14 Mexico
15 Canada

Where do you think the line would be drawn on the ranking of countries Israel could destroy?
Could Israel destroy India at #4? or would you put it below #6 France at Japan or Turkey?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Israel is not concerned about the UK

or the US or mexico for god sakes

But if you think Isreal will not implement Samsom if they feel they are about to be destroyed, you are dreaing

[Rockstone]

56. 26th

sorry you don't like facts, but keep on drifting and dreaming and they won't ever bother you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Keep draeming

that Israel will destroy the US

By the way, why do you defend a holocaust denier?

[Rockstone]

74. Just what the heck are you talking about?

"Israel will destroy the US" - please explain?

"By the way, why do you defend a holocaust denier?"

I would defend anyone's right to ask any question they want. I would hope you would too.
Let him ask and educate himself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. You are the one who is saing Israel

will desrroy the US

And yes you are an apologist for a holocaust denier

[Rockstone]

91. No - that list was a ranking of military power

I assume you didn't read the link I gave you

Israel was 26th, Iran was 16th.

Again, see http://www.globalfirepower.com/index.asp

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. And you again miss this fine detail

anywhere from 100 to 300 nuclaer warheads.

Last time I checked the Iranians had ZERO, ZIPPED, NADA

Oh and I forgot, Israel also has the delivery means.

you are an apologist to this hlocaust denier, and that is quite obvious from your posts

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Why because I pointed to you

that they have those capabilities?

If you cannot distinguish between knowing capabilities and me personally wishing they do it.. well it tells us far more about you, not me.

For starters you have a problem with readying comprehension

[Rockstone]

111. and you have a chip on your shoulder

just like vetwife did.

Look, believe what you want. But don't require of me to go along with your foolishness.

If you think some fabled nukes make you feel like you are safe, then describe the scenario where you successfully use them without repercussion.

It's madness. Why not try peaceful solutions?

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Me a chip on my shoulder

I am not the one going out of my way to deny the ugly reality of antisemitism in the middle east

You are the one denying it

By the way, if you want to believe the fantasy that the President of Iran wants peace, I have a bridge to sell you.

That said, fortunately, as ugly as he is, he truly doesn't have as much power as some think he does, kind of like the Governor of Texas.

Once again I pointed to a STRATEGIC reality on the ground, as well as social realities on the ground

keep hiding from them and while you are at it, keep enabling those who deny the holocaust happened, or the fact that there is antisemitism in the middle east.

[Rockstone]

132. To the contrary

I have allowed you to demonstrate that you are no better than those you are condemning because you are participating in what you accuse them of.

You want me to accept the painting you made with your broad brush of racism, and because I refuse to denigrate people based on race, you want to attack me. Then you stack on false characterizations that you want to see.

Perhaps you should point the finger at yourself for a change instead of others. You might just learn something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Really, whatever, this is pot calling kettle

by the way you have yet to address the strategic situation on the ground, or the fact that there IS widespread STATE SPONSORED antisemitism in the
Middle East.

But continue to prattle along

[Rockstone]

142. I never said there wasn't antisemitism in the arab world

what I said is that it is unfair to characterize all arabs as anti-semetic as you seem to insist that I do. That is akin to saying all jews are zionists, or all christians are zionists - it's plain stupid.

Either practice what you preach, or preach what you practice, either way, quit fooling yourself.

[eyl]

119. Depends on what you mean by "destroy"

keep in mind that the rankings on that site are based on the size of the relevent militaries. There are important factors they don't take into account, such as troop quality and technology level - not to mention other factors like geography. For example, unless the entire mideast goes up in flames, any war between Israel and Iran won't involve ground forces (with the possible exception of SpecOps) since the two countries have no common border, which means those forces should not be considered in regards to power rankings in that situation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. You are trynig to reason with somebody who

does not realize the true strategic situation on the ground.

The stats he provided did not take into account Isreel's nuclear forces either, which in any given conflict between these two, they have to be in the back of your mind... unless both have them... and then enter the MAD scenario

[wuushew]

101. But is that really true from a scientific standpoint?

We don't really know how many warheads Israel possesses. I have read in various sources that opine that Israel may have a total arsenal of some 50 megatons. Not all of these warheads are on the Jericho-2 and improved Jericho-2 missiles that could reach all of Iran.

If all these warheads got through to Iran would they target both population and military targets? After eliminating military targets you would obviously have many fewer to devote to urban depopulation. A 200 kiloton warhead would damage an area of some 132 square miles. I am being generous with the over pressure figures since minimal material can shield you from a 1 psi over- pressure. Ten psi and greater puts you in the lethal category according to the below link.








Bottom Line: The majority of Americans, even in a full-scale all-out nuclear war, would survive the initial blast and thermal effects of nuclear explosions. Even with a large 1 MT explosion and being as few as 8-10 miles away from ground zero, you would likely find that you had survived the initial thermal, blast and shock wave. With any kind of prompt protective action your odds of surviving at even half that distance are quite high. Also, increasing your odds, is that our military installations would be the primary targets and a multitude of thousands of purely civilian concentrations (cities & towns) would be of much less importance strategically to have wasted a nuke on in a first strike. (With the exception of our nations capital and militarily important targets in or adjacent to cities.) In the next Q&A section entitled: What Areas are Likely Targets? we'll explore fully if you are likely residing at a probable 'ground zero'. Also, it needs to be mentioned here, with the much smaller yield and resulting blast damage area of a likely terrorist nuclear weapon, your odds of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are even more remote.

http://www.radshelters4u.com/#1a



Is Iran sufficiently urbanized that destroying 50-90 urban centers would depopulate the country to prevent its eventual re population and continence? There most certainly would be mass radiation deaths. Thermonuclear weapons are not dirtier from a radiological standpoint that the first fission weapons. Since we have real data from dropping bombs on Japan one could conceivable map that data to Iran's population patterns and distribution. Unless cancer deaths outstrip births Iran is not going away.


Given the same number of warheads it is much easier to depopulate the small nation of Israel than the large nation of Iran. Don't be to cock sure about the inevitable victory of Israel in WWIII.


Israeli nuclear arsenal

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. It ranges from 100 to 300

and assuming they use all their arsenal... the lowest number for nuclear winter, the last time I checked, was anywhere from fifty to 100 warheads.

So yes, I can safely say that if there was an event like this... Iran would probably be wiped out as a viable nation, and the rest of us would have some problems.

Now my stance with Iran getting Nuclear Weapons? It woudl lead to a very cold and probably long war. At that point I don't believe either side's leadership woudl be stupid enough to launch for the same reason we and the ruskies didn't... it is called MAD

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You really do not want the answer to that one

but it will not be us, at least not in the first strike

But it was nutjobs like this that the Israelis got that nuclear arsenal they won't admit to for

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Of course I believe it. When he said the Holocaust never happened and is a 'myth'

people tried to say he never said it..."his words were translated wrong' and when he said Israel should be wiped off the map, people said that's not what he said..."he was talking about the 'Zionist' policies in Israel." Excuses, excuses, excuses abound. He got away with it before. Why not again? People are actually cheering him on. They like what he says.

The man is a danger to the world as is our own psycho-in-chief.:(

[Junkdrawer]

8. Iranian "President" is a ceremonial position. He's far from "Iran's Leader"...

Now, I also agree with Juan Cole who called Ahmadinejad "a crank". But this MSM insistence that he's "the leader of Iran" is giving the idiot far more stature than he has or deserves.

[cali]

13. He is, like it or not,

the public face of Iran, and speaks for the Supreme Leader and the Guardian Council. He was, in fact, like all those allowed to run, closely vetted. So crank he may be, but his speech in front of the U.N. as a head of state, and his function as a conduit for the Mullahs, grant him a certain stature that makes it difficult to write him off as insignificant or unimportant.

[The Magistrate]

15. Think Of Him As The Mullahs' Tony Snow, Sir

He is the visible face of the regime to the world, the chosen spokesman, the tongue of the council, speaking the words they want heard.

[Junkdrawer]

71. How About The Mullahs' Rush Limbaugh...

An idiot so far "out there" that they seem moderate in comparison.

[porphyrian]

14. Wow, that's fucking obnoxious.

Millennium's over, folks. You're going to have to shelve the apocalyptic endgaming until the 2090s, at least. Most of us don't want to turn the planet to glass right now, sorry.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. Oh this is just too rich!

"Iran is your home and is the home of all freedom seekers of the world," Ahmadinejad said. "Here you can express your views and exchange opinions in a friendly, brotherly and free atmosphere."

He urged countries where Holocaust denial is a crime to respect freedom of speech and not to take action against any of the conference participants on their return.

Human rights groups frequently number Iran as one of the world's worst violators of free speech, where scores of newspapers have been closed, journalists jailed, access to Web sites blocked and government critics hounded out of the country.

Someone needs to join the REALITY CLUB.:eyes: This man is as dangerous to the world as the psycho-in-chief. Maybe they need to share a jail cell.

[fujiyama]

117. Iran is the home of freedom seekers?

Then why did Parsis leave for India then? What about other religious minorities like the B'nai?

Why are gays EXECUTED in the public square?

What an ass hole.

[RethugAssKicker]

18. In all fairness... this is what the article says he said

"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added.

The Soviet Union was not militarily wiped out.
My initial reaction to this post was that he meant Israel to be wiped out militarily.

As far as denying the Holocaust, he is certainly wrapped in tin foil. The anger by many ME people toward Israel has become extreme to say the least

[cali]

21. It is not merely anger at Israel

The conference in Iran and Ahmadinejad himself are engaging in raw, unvarnished anti-semitism. The time for parsing and excusing Ahmadinejad's words, is past.

I suspect that Mr. A. doesn't care how Isael is destroyed, be it militarily or politically, and let's face it, it's extremely unlikely that Israel will be destroyed politically any time in the near future.

Standard disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form, advocating even throwing a spitball in Iran's direction.

[Rockstone]

23. Even that is debatable

On the surface it would seem first and most obviously anti-Semitic. However it also denies the magnitude of the Roma, gay, handicapped and others who were systematically murdered. As I read in a caption on yahoo photos, the rabbis of jews not zionists consider the inhabitants of Israel to not be true jews, because they believe it is forbidden for jews to return to Israel before the return of the Messiah, and also consider it a violation of religious tract for man to try to create these events.

What can I say, everyone has their own angle on the thing. :shrug:

[cali]

27. No, it is not debatable by anyone with

the slightest bit of knowledge and intellectual honesty. And your ignorance is rather flashily displayed by your comment regarding a few fringe rabbis from a group called Neutra Karta, who represent literally, no more than a few thousand people. They are about as far from the mainstream as you can be. What's more, they have little to do with the subject which is institutionalized anti-semitism in the highest ranks of Iran's leaders.

Of course, many groups were persecuted under the Nazis, but that is hardly the focus or purpose of this conference or Ahmadinejad's antipathy.

[Rockstone]

31. I think to call it anti-semitism is inaccurate

I believe it would be more accurately stated as unvarnished anti-zionism. As far as I know they are always talking about "the zionist regime", not "jews", right? And furthermore, if it were anti-semetic, why would they allow jews to participate?

Zionist is not equal to Israeli is not equal to Jew - come on - you know this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. In the arab world

you betcha.

Nut I am sure you knew this.

It has been the case since at laest the 1950s

[Rockstone]

34. So you are saying that

all in the Arab world are incapable of recognizing Jews as human beings? All Jews are Zionists to Arabs? Is that your position?

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. No that is not my possition that is the possition of many

a social researchers.

Antisemitism is very virulent in the arab world.

It is also an area where top hits like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion get top billing as well as holocaut denial.

Now if you did not know this, it is not my fault either.

But this has been unoficial and official policy from media across the middle east.

[Rockstone]

45. Sorry - I can't go there with you.

rings of racism to me, Nadine... You want to paint arabs with a broad brush and that's wrong. It makes you look anti-arab.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I am not against arabs

it is what their media has been publishing for literally decades. this has been tracked by social scientists and followers of media for literally decades as well.

If you want to think I am anti arab for KNOWING this reality, so be it, makes you happy, fine.

But the reality is that ugly

Don't worry, you can call me anti french as well as some of the uglier side of antisemitism has emerged in their media as well over the last three years.

If you cannot see cartoons that appear regularly, for example in Egyptian media, that woudl be fit for Der Sturmer, as a problem it is not my fault

[Rockstone]

69. Good and bad in every group

To me the bad guys are in every identity group and they are the extremist fringe that would exploit divisionism for some perceived benefit.

Making sweeping condemnations is part of the problem. Be part of the solution.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Perhaps you should do some research

into the Arab press

As to your studid statement, I can actually call a man I served with for three years a friend, not a best friend, but a frined

And he happens to be Palestinian

He, ironically enough, was far more open to realizing the problem with the Arab media, something yuo seem unable to even consider

So once again, why do you defend a holocaust denier?

[Rockstone]

92. Ok, so all Arabs are all racist

But you're not. I finally get it...

:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. You are missing it on purpose

their media is... why don't you some searches for Middle Easetrn Political cartoons and then you can come back.

you are missing this ON PURPOSE.

Why? enablers usually do

[Rockstone]

104. No _ I know

I have seen their cartoons. They talk about the Zionist conspiracy in a way that we find laughable, but, from that perspective, we are denying the truth about our actions.

What do you expect their attitude to be when we tell lies, go destroy Iraq, don't secure it, and plunder it in the ensuing chaos? We send Ari Fleischer's brother as head of economic redevelopment? And the fucking Christian goons from Liberty University who are expecting to Christianize everyone? Are we supposed to be surprised at being seen as the great satan by them? You are in denial of that whole half of the equation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. 'xcuse me?

those cartoons started in 1950, not yesterday, as a regular feature.

Tehy were carried in Arab papers back in the 1920s

If you do not know the history, perhaps you should do some readying.

[Rockstone]

112. which is it, the 20s or the 50s?

perhaps you should do some readying and get back to me...

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Both actually

After the Haifa Program of '27 plenty of papers in the ME carried those cartoons

What is more, during WW II arab papers carried those cartoons and the Mufty of Jerusalem was not only an ally of HItler but visited Berlin

And they started in their modern form in the 50s, again you need to do some readying.

[Rockstone]

86. you forgot "some of my best friends are arabs"...

:eyes:

[cali]

35. You're wrong.

First of all, a certain amount of anti-semitism is masked in the guise of anti-zionism; you know that, right? Second of all Holocaust denial is out and out anti-semitism. It would be one thing if Ahmadinejad stated- and he came close to doing so once- that the Holocaust is not a legitimate reason for the creation of Israel. Nevermind that the Zionist movement far pre-dates the Holocaust. But that isn't what he's saying. He's organized this repellant gathering and is, as I said in my first post in this thread, spitting on the graves of millions. As for your remark about how if it were anti-semitic Jews wouldn't be allowed to participate, that is undoubtedly the most ridiculous remark on the thread.

You are acting as an apologist for some ugly stuff. I think it's shameful.

[Rockstone]

38. It strikes me that the act of denying the holocaust

is anti-Semitic in that it is an affront to a portion of the victims as Jews, not as Zionists, so I see a point along that line of reasoning. I see what you mean by the statement "spitting on the graves of millions".

I don't think it was my intention to apologize for what I guess I now have to admit is anti-semitism; I am just intrigued by the rabbis of Jews Not Zionists and their outreach for peace. In their radically controversial position, the seem to make a powerful statement about making concessions for peace above all.

[cali]

40. Thank you.

I'm glad to see that you recognize that it is anti-semitism. Alas, I must take issue with your characterization of the rabbis from Jews not Zionists. They are quite simply, end time nuts, little different from Christian millenialists or from Ahmadinejad himself. They are not the slightest bit interested in peace. They are obsessed by their own eschatological beliefs.

[Rockstone]

46. I am interested in the minutia

To me, when I saw the NK Rabbi speak at the peace rally before the war, I found his compassion very touching and genuine.

[cali]

51. I fear you completely

misunderstand what they're all about. I am not speaking to this individual Rabbi, but to the nutty movement he belongs to. It is just as far right as any other fundamentalist twiglet of any other religion- and those folks are, as I said, driven by eschatology. It's a very dangerous way of thinking. Fundamentalists with power are one of the gravest threats to the world. That is not an exageration.

[Rockstone]

75. I am not afraid of you

When I see people who are willing to throw away hatred and embrace their enemy to find a common cause, I see peacemakers.

To you that's "nuts", but where does that get you in the end? The only way out of the cycle of violence is to transcend it.

[cali]

87. heh. I suggest you reread my post

I said nothing about fearing me. As for eschatological fundamentalists, sorry, they are not about peace, they are driven by a delusional end of days belief system. And it is dangerous. There's plenty of history to back that statement up.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

96. You appear to be

an apologist for bigotry. Not only that, but given your remarks on this thread, your bigotry is surpassed only by your ignorance. Hardly a surpise, as that's usually the way it works.

[Rockstone]

113. bigot = "anyone who doesn't agree with me" right?

all you have is name calling. I guess that is a passive admission of defeat.

[cali]

125. Your posts speak

for themselves. As do mine. And whether you agree or disagree, I've posted some substantive posts in this thread, backed by some actual knowledge and history. Something you have yet to do.

[RethugAssKicker]

39. Yes they are anti-semitic... But I was speaking of militarily

wiping Israel off the map.. He did not say that.

I am not joining the American mind training to hate Iran in order to
justify war.

[cali]

42. One does not have to hate Iran

a country with wonderful people and a marvelous history, to hold Ahmadinejad and his ugly agenda in utter contempt. It is not an either/or situation. And as I said upthread, I am against so much as throwing a spitball in Mr. A's general direction. I also think that he's such an end-time loon, that if he and the Supreme Leader and the Council, thought they could destroy Israel, they'd happily do so. Leaders driven by eschatology are not closely connected to reality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. In that I agree with you

almehinadab has quite a bit in common with Bush and some End of Timers who happen to be Jewish too.

Amazing, the Messiah, assuming one exits, must be going, NOT GONNA DO IT, nope, no way, no how.

If I do it, they will just lob all kinds of nasty stuff at each other

;-)

[majorjohn]

93. almehinadab?

Boy you sure screwed up his name there didn't you?

[RethugAssKicker]

49. same things we said about Iraq.... All that is necessary to invade

is to demonize their leader, and we feel justified in wiping out the whole country.... BTW, Iran in its 80 year history has never attacked another country.

[cali]

55. Oh for the love of whatever,

One should not be silenced into being complicit with bigotry out of fear. That is just pathetic. And we are not going to attack Iran. It is most certainly not demonizing their leader to speak out against the ugly exercise taking place there, or the abuses of that government. Should Amnesty International shut up out of fear, or HRW or the UN? Absurd. Your arguments are groteque, as is your apologist stance.

[RethugAssKicker]

63. I am not silencing you or disagreeing with you. I just wanted

to make it clear that he did not say that Israel would be militarily wiped off the Earth... as this post and many others imply..

Read my first post.... Gee you must be from BKLYN.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RethugAssKicker]

67. Are you always so uptight?....

Chill out...

[Lurking Dem]

66. What an assinine comment.

You think only a Jew - and a "BKLYN" Jew at that - can hold that opinion?

[RethugAssKicker]

68. It was meant to lighten things up... I'm originally

from the Bronx.

[Lurking Dem]

73. Well you've got Yankee Stadium

so you can probably be forgiven just about anything. ;)

[Rockstone]

22. In all fairness

I suspect he is questioning the magnitude of the Holocaust. I suspect the deniers consider it was exaggerated in order for he nation of Israel to be created. But these are only suspicions. Certainly it would seem foolish to think there were no gas chambers, when they still exist today. There is pleny of photographic evidence to backup the story of the WWII holocaust.

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. Questioning the magnitude? I don't think so. He said the Holocaust is a 'MYTH.'

Myth defined:

An improvable story, almost always including incredible or miraculous events, that has no specific reference point or time in history.
www.organtransplants.org/glossary.html

something not true, fiction, or falsehood. A truth disguised and distorted.
www.carm.net/atheism/terms.htm

A popular belief that is false or unsupported by facts.
www.plimoth.org/learn/history/glossary.asp

[Rockstone]

36. According to this

you are correct:

"He said, if the holocaust happened..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

however, the definition page lists two forks in the thing:

Holocaust denial (commonly called Holocaust revisionism by its supporters) is the belief that the genocide of Jews during World War II — the Holocaust — did not occur, or it did occur in another way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Either way it is up there above Moon Landing deniers on the scale of lunacy (no pun intended).

[RethugAssKicker]

37. I agree... I know that Arabs are wrong for feeling that way...

But I can understand why they would doubt the magnitude.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. you understand why they would doubt the magnitude?

Explain it to me. How is it understandable for them to question that 6 MILLION Jews died at the hands of Hitler? They don't study history? How is it understandable? Why is it?

[RethugAssKicker]

52. They're intense hatred is why... and the fact that the US backs

Israel at every step.... They are also enraged that Israel was placed in the ME, when it was the Europeans who committed the genoicde...

The Western pact with Israel is unjust in their eyes.

Thus, a strong breeding ground for consipiracy theories, such as denying the Holocaust.

Thats why I understand the ME peoples arguments, however I do not agree with it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. There Was An Israel Long Before There Was An United States...

eom

[cali]

60. No there wasn't. That's an absurd counterargument

Particularly as there are many good ones. You can't possibly state that there was a nation of Israel before there was a United States, and expect to be taken seriously, and of course the establishment of Israel caused serious, and in many ways, legitimate resentment in the mideast.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. There Have Been Jews In That Land Since 2000 B.C.

Since Judaism preceded Christianity and Islam by about two centuries and two and one half centuries it's safe to assume there were Jews in that area long before there were Christians or Muslims...


And the argument is no more absurd than the Muslim irredentist argument that Jews have no historical claim to the area or that they miraculously emigrated there from Berlin, Stuttgart, or Essen...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. And

"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
(M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000)


http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp

[cali]

78. Yes, but we're not

speaking of nation=tribe, we're speaking of nations in the modern sense, thus to say that Israel as a nation predates the U.S., is fallacious.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. It Wasn't My Intention To Say It Was A State As We Know It..

But it was my intention to deafeat the argument by Muslim irredentists that Israel has no ties to the land...


The argument that Jews have no historical dibs on the land and that Israel was created out of whole cloth because the European powers felt bad about the Holocaust is at odds with the historical record...

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. gotcha....thanks. n/t

[Lurking Dem]

48. .

:shrug:

[majorjohn]

100. Correction: Not all Arabs

Many Arabs actually know the difference between Jews and Israelis; their problem is with the Israelis. Yet, some people just can't tell the difference, and they're not just Arabs.

[burythehatchet]

59. SSSSSHHHHH!!! You'll ruin the fun.

Real media reports clarified that statement months ago, but the actual interpretation doesn't fit the narrative.

[cali]

62. Still clinging to

the wreckage of the mistranslation crap, I see.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

77. Yes, I'm sure you'd

You'd rather play with your own shit. And alas, my persuasive skills are not nearyl as laudatory as say, the Magistrate's. But I suspect now, even Prof. Cole, who I admire greatly, will have to hang it up wrt Ahmadinejad.

[burythehatchet]

79. there's like 90,000

DUers you can converse with besides me...take advantage of that....pleeeeease.

[Rockstone]

80. Pathetic.

talking about playing with shit? Is that what you're down to in your argument?

You had me considering your position, before this...

[cali]

88. In case you didn't notice

I wasn't the one who started this little insultfest, though I did fall into it. As for considering my argument, I highly doubt that you did. Your statements are all too telling.

[Rockstone]

105. Don't start that paranoid shit with me

weakest excuse for an argument yet, the old "I know what you are" routine.

[Lurking Dem]

122. Anyone can read what you write

and you seem to hold opinions that are counter to democratic liberalism.

[cali]

124. Yes.

And anyone who supports radical fundamentalists because they say something that fits conveniently fit into their view of the world, does indeed hold opinions counter to liberal or progressive thought.

[Rockstone]

128. you are kneejerking to what you want to see

nowhere did I promote radical fundamentalists beliefs like the pres of Iran holds. To the contrary, I made the comment that, to me, they were lunacy.

What I did do is - I supported his right to question, just as I would support yours. What I have done is allowed you to expose your own intolerance.

You defined NKUSA as 'nuts'. I support their right to hold their beliefs, if they choose to do so. I am unwilling to dismiss as invalid someone who I think is "nuts". Even nuts are allowed to have a voice in my world. But I guess in your, only the "right kind" of people are allowed to speak freely.

Why don't you list the beliefs that you want to be forbidden. And if you can't do that, then apologize for distorting my statements.

[cali]

133. Heh. You

are the one putting words in my mouth. find the post where I said anyone should be forbidden to speak. As a card carrying member of the ACLU, I call bullshit on you. So let's see all those posts where I say any speech by anyone should be shut down.

As far as fundamentalist end timers go- I not only think they're nuts, be they Christians, Muslims or Jews, I think they're one of the gravest dangers on the planet.

[Rockstone]

135. I agree with you that fundy brainwashing is dangerous and scary

I am glad you have apparently admitted that you support Ahmedinijad's right to hold his conference no matter how foolish it seems to us.

[cali]

136. You really

are a piece of work. I never, ever said that Ahmadinejad didn't have the right to hold any conference he wishes. And saying that I did say such a thing is simply a lie. Hardly surprising considering the source. Do you have any fucking idea how inconsistent you are? Not to mention your penchant for prevarication. Now run off and play with someone else. You're too easy.

[Rockstone]

140. LOL

What's the matter - you don't like it when someone distorts what you said into something you didn't say?

Don't dish it if you can't take it.

[RethugAssKicker]

70. Tempers run high around here... doesn't it?

[Rockstone]

81. yeah it's the "nuts"

the "end timer crazies" getting all flustered, I'm sure... :eyes:

[zreosumgame]

25. It would improve the world that ALL religion based gov'ts go away

including Iran's and Saudi Arbia's in particular

[LittleClarkie]

28. That's right dear. Make nice.

Doesn't make life easy, does he.

[Kelly Rupert]

50. Ahmadinejad is proof, I think,

that the mere fact that a foreign leader attacks Mr. Bush is not in and of itself sufficient grounds for support.

[Lipton64]

61. Give him a break, he has to throw some meat to the Islamist fundy crowd.....nm

[Rockstone]

83. ding ding ding

it's all targeted marketing.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. So you think he deserves a "break"?

I think he's an asshole. Period.

[Rockstone]

106. try one post up.

you are attributing someone else's words to me.

[Lurking Dem]

120. "ding ding ding"

is generally construed to reflect agreement.

[Rockstone]

129. another distortion...

"Give him a break, he has to throw some meat to the Islamist fundy crowd.....nm"

the dinging was in reference to "throw some meat to the Islamist fundy crowd". I agreed with the op that that is what Ahmedin. is trying to do.

"Give him a break" was obviously meant sarcastically by the OP.

Pathetic knee jerk desperation.

[Lurking Dem]

131. Your apparent inability

to communicate what you are actually thinking does not make me at all "desperate".

[Rockstone]

134. The distorted re-characterizations of my statements are acts of desperation.

What people seem to have a problem with is that I am able to divorce myself from all the flag waving and attempt to examine the situation objectively, or at least to consider the multiple viewpoints that those who are pre-blinded by racism are unable to consider.

Thus I am able to consider "nuts" where as others dismiss them. And guess what? "Nuts" is one of those worlds like "cult" - it is, by definition a matter of perspective.

I guess I would have been called "nuts" 150 years ago, for thinking that the Native Americans were human beings, instead of "savages", before their genocide at the hands of "civilized" people.

[Rockstone]

141. you're right

it's your inability to understand that makes you desperate. I am having no problem communicating.

[Kelly Rupert]

103. Give George Wallace a break, he had to throw some meat to the

racist-white crowd.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. He's a perfect example of why fundamentalist loonies drunk on "God" should be kept far away from

power. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. And this applies to nutjobs of any religion

[JCMach1]

107. As soon as Ahmadinejad ceases to be useful, he's gone

as President. It's largely a sabre-rattling dog and pony show in Tehran right now, so Ahmadinejad is the man.

[and-justice-for-all]

116. Iran is a classic "CHURCH " ran country.....

..Ahmadinejad is just a spokesmen, the Aitahla(however its spelled) is still running the show. The "Holocaust is a myth" line is to provoke Israel, piss them off and get under their skin. Iran knows that it is a sencetive subject for many so they use it as a stick to poke Israel with, but it is rather odd that in that conferrence their was Americans and Jews in attendence.

Not only is Iran esting Israel, but also the "Free-Speech" doctrine of democrartic countries. The Holocaust myth line, to me, is the same as cartoons depicting Muhammud or Allah Thats how I see this issue anyway...Sticks and Stones people; sticks and stones...

Muslims and Jews have never gotten along; until stupid ideologies are removed from society they never will. Israel is surrounded by Muslim states that they are more interested in surpressing rather then living peacefully with. Its a two way street, Muslims want to indoctrinate the entire world with Islam and Christendom/Jedeuoism wants to do the same..What the hell kind of relationship should one expect from such a mentality thats based on ideology?? Religion is the suffication of humanity, its utter poison...The middle east is a prime example of this.

[eyl]

118. Actually,

historically Jews and Muslims have gotten along considerably better then Jews and Christians (on average, anyway)

[Lurking Dem]

121. Also there is no proselytizing Judaism.

Muslims want to indoctrinate the entire world with Islam and Christendom/Jedeuoism (sic) wants to do the same

Jews do not seek converts.

[eyl]

126. True, I missed that at first reading n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

123. Thank you George W Ahmadinejad.

Another "Bring'em on" asshole that'll never see combat but is willing to fight to the last drop of someone else's blood.

[Lurking Dem]

127. One difference

Ahmadinejad actually served and fought with the Revolutionary Guard in the 1980 war.

[majorjohn]

130. Atleast he just uses words not weapons to scare his enemies n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. He did serve with the Guards in the 1980s

and those Guards did see some combat, nothing as intense as the grunts on Nam, but he did hit the field.

[Moderator]

143. locking

this turned into a flamewar