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Betty Freidan's legacy?: WJ CSPAN question

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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:13 AM
Original message
Betty Freidan's legacy?: WJ CSPAN question
Anyone listening mostly to older males calling in and blaming Betty for all the ills of the nation? Talk about threatened.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. These callers
plus Daniel Pipes, Jerome Corsi, and the son of the Shah on C-SPAN this morning. Now that's a Super Sunday.

Goddamn there are people who really don't like women in this country. I mean holy crap.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. They WERE threatened with a lot of losses
Back in the 50s, women were breeding stock. If you were any ordinary male, you could own one and do with her as you wished, although you could no longer sell her. You could discard her at will, and alimony applied only if you remained in the same state. You were entitled to her services, including sexual services, and she had no right to complain about any treatment you afforded her, although you did have to stop short of killing her.

When Fiedan came along and pointed out that women were human beings who had needs and rights of their own, men got horribly threatened with the loss of their right to be the sole functioning human being in the household, with the potential loss of the right to an uncomplaining, full time unpaid servant, and with the loss of a certain amount of freedom they had previously held: the freedom to rape, to abuse, and to abandon. I don't think any of us should underestimate what the loss of this stuff ment to men who were decent and treated their wives relatively well. There are a lot of freedoms we all have that we don't exercise that we would resent having taken away.



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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well said.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. You also forgot the loss of the right
to sexual promiscuity (on the part of the husband) with the blame for it going to the wife. "She couldn't satisfy him so he had to go elsewhere".

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. "abandon"
said that one. There are a lot of way to abandon a wife and family, and going off to a night on the town with a younger model while dropping their dirty laundry off for the "old wife" to take care of is one of them.

Any disease the wife caught from him would be proof that she had been an adultress, and she could then be cast off with no support.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Plus women did not have an IDENTITY apart from how
Edited on Sun Feb-05-06 08:39 AM by no_hypocrisy
society defined them.

You were a spinster, an old maid if you weren't married. And by the late 50s, many women were getting engaged before they had graduated high school (without the "benefit" of being pregnant).

Or you were a wife, and soon a mother (otherwise, you were not seen as a contributing member of society by producing a family). The only tangible accomplishment you could demonstrate for your existence was your well-groomed, well-behaved, and popular children, a clean home, and a satisfied husband (in more ways than one).

You were known as "Mrs. (Insert your Husband's full name)", or "Jimmy's mother" in the community. Only your family and close friends knew you by your first name.

You had no credit in your name. You could not easily get a credit card in your own name, only as an extra card under your husband's policy (if he "let you").

You COULD work outside of the home, but that symbolized that your husband wasn't bringing home enough bacon and that didn't look good as far as keeping up with the proverbial Joneses next door.

If you were an independent, unmarried, "career girl", it was a step about "old maid", but you were regarded as somewhat deviant and having an unresolved conflict of wanting to compete with men instead of reveling in your womanhood and the natural order of things.

One of the best pieces of fiction depicting women changing their views of themselves from the 50s to the 70s is Marilyn French's The Women's Room. I think it came out 1978.

Returning to the point of the original post, men lost their identity as women found theirs as the men were not re-oriented to a new role as partners in their marriages. If their wives as marital colonies declared their autonomy and independence, then men were left in a vacuum. They didn't understand or didn't want to understand what the underlying issues were behind their wives' transformation and how society was changing.

And it was difficult to relinquish the default monarchy they had been given by virtue of being a male in American society. They made the decisions and things got done more expediently. Now debate was part of the equation with the possibility of deferring to another's choice. Plus, wives had been more or less viewed as another child and now, they were adult women, "equals", and a participating member of a household democracy. That's a tough pill to swallow if one is not enlightened and inclined to change.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. It is my understanding that alimony
is still not enforceable across state lines, that only child support collection has been changed.

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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. One said the Taliban had the right idea about how to treat women!
And called Betty Freidan a Communist! :wtf::rofl::crazy:
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I thought the Neanderthal Man was extinct, I guess not...
Edited on Sun Feb-05-06 08:33 AM by Missy M
he's alive!!!!
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. No, the "git me a beer, bitch" male is still very much in evidence
down here.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yeah, but now we can leave him
We can get a job without his approval, get an apartment without his aproval, get our own credit rating without his approval, buy a car without his approval, and get a divorce without his approval.

That's what the movement Friedan started has done for us. It's what it's done to him. He no longer can count on having the same unpaid servant for his whole selfish life.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes, and hide in a shelter these days so he won't beat you up,
or murder you. It is getting worse for women down here.
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Is it not amazing?
These same people, that would call us unfair for blaming bush for any of the problems facing this nation, as a DIRECT result of his actions, would now have us believe that this BRILLIANT woman, has brought such destruction upon our country. I ask again, is it not amazing? Stupidity Accomplished, I guess.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-05-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. Slept late.
I obviously missed some serious entertainment.
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