Unsettling Rumor About the U.S. Military

[Hissyspit]

But not exactly a surprise. Via Americablog:

A disturbing rumor about the US military
by John in DC - 3/02/2006 08:39:00 AM

Well, it's actually a bit more than a rumor, but it still needs further sourcing. Any enterprising journalists or others want to follow through on this?

http://mattdaniels.typepad.com/mattland_revolutions/2006/03/desperate.html

"Last Friday night some military friend(s) of mine got some news. For them its either good or bad news, depending on their point of view. A very few of them will see it as a chance to get closer to the "action". But for most, and unfortunately, its a bit shocking. As for me it's a little earth-shattering - especially since one of them was my replacement when I left the Navy. Quick background... when I was in the military, I was an E-2C Hawkeye Naval Flight Officer. That means I flew around in a radar equipped plane and directed the air-war. That's a VERY watered down description, but it covers the basics. My friends and others that got 'the news' are of varying but similar backgrounds. As with several occupations in the military, they have some extensive EW training (Electronic Warfare). Which sets the stage...

It seems that they all fall into a particular category at the moment - they're all on shore duty (after being on sea-duty for several years... it's called 'payback'), and they all have at least one year left at their current duty-station. Life right now is supposed to be focused on family, training others to do what you've done already, and supporting those in the Navy that are currently at sea. But on Friday night, some of them got a phone call - with a twist.

By and large, they're being ordered to supplement the Army and Marines on the ground in Iraq. That in itself isn't that strange, since the current trend has been to try and give the forces that have been on multiple deployments a break by rotating Air Force and Navy personnel into positions that could be easily 'substituted'. But... here's the twist. They're manning up a new unit - made up of a mix of personnel, to become field combat teams in charge of detecting IED's. Improvised Explosive Devices. WTF???

I will pledge loyalty to my Navy brethren - they are capable of doing the tasks they are trained for, and then some. But to take a Naval Aviator, teach him in a couple of months how to fire a rifle and command Army or Marine troops on the ground, and much less put him in some experimental platform to detect and disarm IED's because the Army and Marine experts are tired and out of people?? That's like asking a surgeon to become the coach of an NFL Football team!!"

MORE

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

1. Godawful mistreatment of our military continues

These guys in uniform don't deserve this crap from our war mongering leaders.

[Tesha]

2. The next frontier of EW for us...

The next frontier of EW for us is probably the semi-remote
detection of IEDs. I could imagine several very-high-tech
techniques by which it might be done and I'd imagine we're
very anxious to start trying some of them out "in the field".

At which point the "insurgents" will simply resort to blowing
the shit out of our soldiers with bombs triggered by wrapping
a cigarette into a matchbook as seen in Stalag 17.

Response, counter reponse, counter counter response.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Tesha

[SunDrop23]

3. Well hell's bells it just a rifle, anyone can shoot a rifle...sarcasm off

[Tesha]

5. Ehh? I don't take your point. (NT)

[BrotherBuzz]

11. Rumsfeld did tell us servicemen are fungible

Oh, come on. People are fungible. You can have them here or there. - Rumsfeld, April 2004

[Captain Hilts]

46. That's so 'McNamara' of Rumsfeld. Let him run Ford Motor Co. nt

[Kurovski]

24. I took it as a comment on the administration's cavalier and

uninformed attitude towards the military.

it also had the feeling of a smack-down to Freep-think.

[SunDrop23]

26. You are correct.

[formercia]

25. In Afghanistan

they would have someone crouch by the road and pull the rope when a Soviet vehicle passed. Crude but effective.

[The Wielding Truth]

32. Soviets spent 10yrs spinning their wheel in Afghanistan and still we went.

What fools this administration is!

[genie_weenie]

4. Well, his blog doesn't offer more than what you posted but

as an EW officer he's probably talking about countermeasures to IEDs.

Without getting into specifics all dismantling of IEDs is being done by the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) Units, which are unfortunately even more overworked than the rest of the troops, remember for Army and USMC EOD units it's been 4+ years of deployments. But, there is NO way any non-EODer is being asked to disarm them.

However, like I mentioned detection is different and there are many platforms for detection and many "ways" of attempting to counter IEDs.

[oneighty]

14. I am ex- Navy EOD

There is no way I would want to be involved in attempting to disarm/render safe/be involved in home made explosive devices.

In my time it was the thing we feared the most. Fortunately I was never presented that challenge.

A lady EOD was recently killed disarming a road side bomb in Iraq so our quarterly magazine tells me. Sigh.

180

[kenny blankenship]

6. Because it takes no special skill to step on a mine

[spag68]

7. navy

I got out of the navy in 1962< USS Norfolk DL-1> It appears the armed services have not changed. for instance How about being given a niceshiny 45 for SP duty, but absolutely no ammo. I told them to keep it and give me a sap or anightstick. FUBAR

[alfredo]

10. Reminds me of:

"To walk my post a mile a minute, with an M 14 with nothing in it."

[Orsino]

8. Sounds like a misinterpretation of the word "support," possibly.

Given public statements to the effect that the US will try to replace some ground forces with air support, Naval and Air Force EW folks should expect to see more combat-support duty.

But the blog entry is pretty vague.

[marzipanni]

9. How about recruiting some bees...

<snip>
Meanwhile, University of Montana researchers in Missoula have trained honeybees (Apis mellifera) as an efficient and low-cost means to screen large areas for hidden explosives.

The researchers note that most landmines and buried unexploded ordnance (UXO) leak explosives into the environment. During their tests, honeybees swarmed areas where explosive residue was present.

The insects had a 98 percent success rate in tests performed last year. Researchers said the location of the residue can be mapped to provide a picture of the extent, location, and density of bomb-contaminated areas.

"The beauty of this approach is that bees are indigenous to every climate on Earth, and there are beekeepers everywhere," said Susan Bender, a chemist at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who worked on the project.

"You wouldn't need a million-dollar piece of equipment and extensive training to use it," she said. "The countries where landmines are a problem typically don't have those kinds of resources."

A hive of 40,000 to 65,000 bees costs around U.S. $100 and can be trained in as little as two hours, according to researchers. Now funding is needed to go to the next step, Bender said, so tests in a real mine field can be conducted.

Bee colonies can also signal other environmental anomalies, including chemical weapons attack, through electronic counters that monitor the number of bees exiting and entering a hive. Unusual activity signals environmental change.

Samples collected from hives, like wax, honey, and pollen, can also highlight environmental contaminants in an area.

Training bees is similar to training dogs. Bees are conditioned to associate an odor, such as the explosive materials TNT, DNT, and RDX, with a reward. In practice sessions, a sugar-water feeder and traces of explosives are set up near a colony. As the bees feed, they begin to associate the explosive's odor with the food source.

As foragers, the bees will search an area for similar odors and continue to look for hours, or even days, with appropriate reinforcement.

Bees also train each other. For example, if multiple hives are needed in a large area, only one needs to be trained. Researchers say the bees from the trained hive will naturally recruit and teach others.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0210_040210_minerats.htmlBees and Bombs

[underpants]

13. Wow that is really interesting

and it beats the hell out of the Moroccan monkeys

[BrotherBuzz]

21. And Rummy is excited about the idea

40,000 to 65,000 new recruits- problem solved! Heck, that's three divisions per hive! Talk about small, mobile units, this is Rummy's wet dream!

[spuddonna]

12. If this is true, our military is in serious trouble...

We're re-deploying our soldiers from other branches to cover our butts in Iraq?! What's next? Air Force pilots being shipped in as ground forces? Who is running this mess?!

I saw a bit on TDS on how the military is waiving all sorts of rules to make it easier to get into the Army - raised recruiting ages, accepting felons, etc. - but the most appalling to me was that they are changing boot camp to make it easier! The new recruits get more 'personal time', do 60% less running, and overweight recruits aren't denied dessert... Can you imagine being a career military person, who worked their ass off to complete training, to compete for ranks, only to hear this crap?!!

I do not understand how the Generals who are currently commanding can keep going along with the war plans Rummy & Pals are pushing...

[peacebird]

38. we have been using sailors in Iraq for well over a year.

[Joey Liberal]

15. I don't feel sorry for our military

Most of them are republicans that voted for Bush. I can't feel sorry for them. I respect them, but they have asked for this.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. I think you would be surprised at the number of non-GOP military people

there are. They are around and they are suffering due to **'s insanity.

[tjwash]

20. There are a hell of a lot more Veterens here at DU...

then there are at FR. Just start a vets thread sometime, there are a whooooole lot of us here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You are ABSOLUTELY SURE of that statement

or could it be that you have swalloed the republican mantra that the military is whole republican owned?

Wife of a now retired Navy Chief who KNOWS most of his command voted for Kerry. <-----------------------

[tjwash]

19. That's a little unfair and callous.

Most of them are kids that have nothing to begin with, and the military is the only get out of their current situations.

If you're from a small town, and your family owned business has been bankrupted because Walmart moved in, sometimes you are going to lacking little things like money for college. Or maybe the steel factory, that was the towns main employer just got a sweet deal from China and left in the middle of the night, and there is no way for you to make a living without leaving. What do you do if you are a young 20 something that doesn't have any means to do that? I'm open to suggestions. :shrug:

And you are dead wrong in you initial assertion as well, there are a hell of a lot of Dems in the military, and a hell of a lot more veterans here than at freeperland.

[genie_weenie]

39. You are completely wrong

Remember the military has enlisted, warrant and officer ranks. Officers, sure they have to vote Bush and support Republicans because it's their careers. If Captain So-n-So and Major You-know-what want to see Colonel someday it's tow the party line.

Now, us enlisted men see we're sneaky, shifty and crafty that's why officers have to spend so much time keeping us in line. Of all the Sgts/Cpls/LCpls in my Company the last 2 times I deployed with them, 95% were anti-Bush, anti-Iraq War.

And why might you ask? Well, because as the junior enlisted we are the ones always being rogered up for deployments.

Now, one of the problems is that many enlisted types are undereducated, also the military does tend to attract aggresive Alpha Male types, who trend towards violence. So, when people are flabbergasted that servicemembers don't know we were lied into War in Iraq, remember the larger picture.

I, however, worked a MOS which afforded me an opportunity to peruse sensitive information... Whether that or my devious anti-authority nature led me my to be skeptical of OIF... :shrug:

[Joey Liberal]

47. I agree

Now, us enlisted men see we're sneaky, shifty and crafty that's why officers have to spend so much time keeping us in line. Of all the Sgts/Cpls/LCpls in my Company the last 2 times I deployed with them, 95% were anti-Bush, anti-Iraq War.
------
As a former enlisted soldier myself, I have to agree that we enlisteds and NCO's have always outsmarted the officers.

[genie_weenie]

48. Well, you're Army but I won't discriminate

against you for that!

:toast: From a Sgt* of Marines



* - I had to use the shorthand for Sgt, you know how dumb we Marines is...

[Joey Liberal]

49. I respect the Marines

I lived in barracks right next to the Marine Detachment barracks, and we shared the same mess hall. They hated us "Army Dogs", but I had some buddies over there. Good guys.

[hootinholler]

17. "That's like asking a surgeon to become the coach of an NFL Football team"

More like asking the Football Coach to become the surgeon.

-Hoot

[formercia]

22. Detecting IED's is easy

the more you drive in Iraq, the better the chance of you finding one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Good lord. The Naval Aviators I knew could barely tie their shoes.

But, that goes for the vast majority of military officers who can't get a real job.

[Captain Hilts]

28. Unfair comment about navy/military officers. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. I'll stand by my statement.

But, I was of the working class who had the pleasure of tucking the drunks and morons into their planes and helping them out when they managed to get them on the ground without blowing the tires or running into things.

[PsN2Wind]

33. "barely tie their shoes"

but capable of landing a twenty ton aircraft at night on a pitching flight deck. What navy where you in?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Navy? I wasn't a squid.

Marines. And, the idiots driving the planes could barely land on their asses when they were drunk, as usual. But, I wasn't a lifer who adored the military - even less officers.

[PsN2Wind]

43. The OP was in reference to a NFO,

You referred to Naval Aviators, so I assumed, wrongly, you were claiming this knowledge of Navy Flight Officers.
Too bad you never had the opportunity to witness night ops on a carrier. I still think you would conclude they were able to "Tie their shoes". Actually they are probably the best pilots in the world. The ability to put a high performance aircraft down on about 300 feet of flight deck that is swinging through a substantial arc makes a ten thousand foot runway a piece of cake.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Marine pilots are considered "naval" aviators.

And, we were deployed to the Ranger for exercises. Good pilots don't make good commanders, as the OP also pointed out. I dealt with the glorious naval aviators on a personal level. Most of them were arrogant, narcissistic, twits.

[Hissyspit]

41. Hee... I love the inter-service rivalries.

ALL THE BRANCHES OF SERVICE are bing abused and misused by the lunatics and usurpers of power in control of the military currently. All military are in this together.

[Captain Hilts]

27. Navy people? In Iraq? On the ground? With firearms? Are they crazy??

This is total crap.

That's what I call a "draft."

[genie_weenie]

40. Tell me about it!

What's next Chair Forcemen walking patrols???

Seriously, I kid, while the Corps and Army still do most of the heavy shit, the Navy (especially Corpsman, poor bastards) and Airmen are getting flak as well.

Now, if only we didn't have so many Mercs running around over there. Fucking Gun crazy dickwads!

[KittyWampus]

29. I read a letter from troop saying remote control toy cars can be used

cheap and effective for finding and setting off IED's.

[AnneD]

30. This same thing

has been happening to the Air Force. As an ex USAR and having trained at all military schools and becoming familiar with other branches, ITA. One size does not fit all, diffrent missions, different training.
While I support the guys, I despise what they are doing to the military. They must just pull this shit out of their asses. Unbelievable.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. Bottom line, if this is true: they are running out of Army/Marines/NG.

Even with stop loss, unless they dare stop loss the entire services for all time, they don't have enough people on the ground.

So, if this is true, they are just shuffling non ground troop personnel into the mix after some kind of cursory training. So much for people joining the Navy or Air Force to get benefits or employment but stay out of Iraq.

[converted_democrat]

36. Read this thread.. - Sort of confirms it..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=560600&mesg_id=560600

[wakeme2008]

37. As an Army vet, get those Navy and Air Force ppl over to Iraq

IMHO I have heard the Army and Marines did not vote for Bush, but the Air Force and Navy types did. So :cry: me a river.

[Captain Hilts]

45. Bush is gutting the navy and air force.

He's running the air force's transport force into the ground having them fly short hops between Iraqi cities. C-5s doing short hops!

The Bush Admin. is forcing the navy to cut 30K people in three years. The navy is now smaller than it was prior to the First World War. Yet, you still hear folks gripe about what Clinton did! Sub force? What sub force?

[AnnieBW]

42. Bombing Iran

Those Naval Aviators (Goddess bless 'em!) might be lousy at shooting and/or finding IEDs. But it's interesting that they'd be in the area of Iran....