Begala : Sits on Porch and Yells "Kill" ..Sons shoot off Groundhogs heads

[KoKo]

Anyone here Begala on Imus this morning say that? He said he sits on his porch at his Farm in the Shenadoah Mts. writing his book and enjoys yelling "Kill!" as his four sons blast heads off Groundhogs.

He and Carville were on promoting their book "Take it Back" and revealed that they both have "Farms" in the Shenandoah about 30 miles apart.

I guess that's Begala's way of showing Dems are TOUGH.. :eyes: Personally, it turned me off.

[sasha031]

1. I heard that too

Kerry wouldn't let him work on his campaign, (good for Kerry)
little cruel assshit, it made me sick :puke:

[ShaneGR]

42. Groundhogs

Destructive creatures, I've shot a few in my life. Because they'd come on my property, dug holes, ruined gardens, screwed up my lawn. Does that make a cruel person? If a rat comes into your home, do you let it stay?

[alfredo]

48. They've destroyed my garden, going after my valued vegetables and

flowers. Because I can't discharge a gun in town, I scare them to death with noise makers.

[ourbluenation]

53. Judge much?

Um - Clinton won with his help. Kerry lost without his help...just saying

My response to anti choice people is this..."don't believe in abortion? Then don't have one. And quit telling me that I can't have one".

Makes sense - right? But some of my leftie friends cannot do the same in reverse on other issues. If you think shooting vermin makes one a cruel asshit, then don't shoot vermin. But not wanting a pretty good strategist to work on a campaign (for whom I'm assuming was your guy - Kerry) just because he shoots vermin, makes you a snob. Believe it or not, there are some dems who own guns and like to hunt. I'm not one, but I respect the fact that this sort of activity is a generational past-time for some families and cultures.

[Loonman]

2. Woodchucks are vermin

And hardly endangered. Let a pair of woodchucks run rampant in your veggie garden, and you'll want to blow their heads off, too. Cyanide bombs in the holes work best, but not if you have pets around.

[sui generis]

4. yeah, and ranchers around yellowstone think wolves are vermin too

running rampant around their sheep grazing on federal lands.

Funny how you don't hear about ranch farmers wanting to blow the heads off wolves.

Oh wait, my bad, they sure as hell do.

If you want to control woodchucks, let their natural predators live, bobcats, wildcats, alley cats, coyotes.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Alley cats?

Um, right. I'd like to see a cat take on a groundhog. Say goodbye, kitty.

[sui generis]

21. I was being funny

damn it's so hard here some days. Humor or not alley cat wasn't even the relevant point of the reply.

alternatives to headshooting cyanide bombing yahooism are under discussion.

[misanthrope]

37. 'Alley cats'...

...aren't indigenous to North America.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

40. Get real...

...eom

[sui generis]

47. well clearly you think more than you talk

what was your point?

[sui generis]

49. nevermind

you're from south dakota. say no more. eom.

[Zynx]

78. You don't get cats for big farm vermin, you get dogs.

Cat versus rat isn't a good match for the cat, let alone a groundhog.

Rats eat cats.

[H2O Man]

7. He mentioned that

he has a farm. Woodchuck populations create a series of holes that create risks for cattle and/or horses. Most farmers are not so bored that they fill in empty time killing cuddily small creatures; it's a way of protecting their stock.

[Mutley]

16. Humans are hardly endangered, either.

And they do far more to harm the environment than eat someone else's veggies. Let's go blow some of their heads off! KILL!

edit: I suppose I should add this :sarcasm: because we have some very literal eyes around here.

[Southsideirish]

24. Who are you to say that God's creatures are "vermin"?.

Learn to live in harmony with nature insted of trying to blow it up. I bet they were there long before your "veggie garden" and will be there long after you are gone.

[Southsideirish]

25. He and Carville are very low types. n/t

[Loonman]

34. Granted, yes

But to have such a simplistic approach to nuisance pests is daft. Would you sleep with sewer rats in your bed?

Don't give me that hippie harmony bullshit.

[deutsey]

41. Licensed the government of the United Nations to kill varmints

Varmint Cong

[The Animator]

3. Guess they won't be chucking anymore wood.

[babylonsister]

5. I think Begala said

ground hogs. :hide:
I was more alarmed that Begala endorsed Kinky Friedman for governor of TX. We have two legit Dems running at this point; Kinky would be a joke TX can ill afford.

[KoKo]

10. OOPS! Yes....I just edited....

don't know why Woodchuck came into my head.

[Cocoa]

6. why do they have to shoot real woodchucks?

plenty of targets available

[sasha031]

8. if Begala' is the spokesman for the Dem's

we are in more trouble that I thought, he is trying to sell a book.

claiming the dems don't show there backbone, then proceeds to show he is the Neanderthal sort by bragging about blowing little animals away.
the guy is an asswipe

[SmokingJacket]

9. It's bad taste to brag about killing them, but...

last summer woodchucks *destroyed* my garden. They managed to dig under the fence and everytime I went out there this one fat one would be chomping away. I can understand wanting to shoot them, oh yes....

[EST]

12. Attitude is everything.

Shooting them as a necessary control, like thinning a row of radishes, is acceptable, making a cruel game of it raises serious questions.

[skooooo]

15. Serious Questions? Really?

Like what?

[EST]

23. Respect for the life and whatever level of consciousness

the creatures around me have, and the presumption, based on experience, that, given a choice, they really don't want to die, has led me to a certain cautiousness about what and why I might destroy.
While I fully understand hunting as a sport and the satisfaction of a certain humanness in the activity, I can see no reason not to find a casual disrespect, to the point of gleeful gaming, of less intelligent animals than I, quite repulsive.
When I see the obvious carefree "gaming" of the torture of Abu Ghraib prisoners, I cannot help but see a parallel.

[skooooo]

52. From a radio show?

...whatever.

[theHandpuppet]

18. Exactly.

Groundhogs are destructive, aggressive, and if you have never seen the craters they create in fields where their colonies take hold, you really have no idea how dangerous their overpopulation is to other animals, including horses. They can also carry rabies. I had the masonite siding chewed off a house by groundhogs (who love masonite for some reason), chewed through my telephone wires and attacked one of my dogs. I used to live in the Shenandoah Valley and the groundhogs there are an epidemic. I've had to shoot ground hogs on my parent's property, where they had tunneled beneath the foundation of their outbuilding and collapsed the floor -- not to mention the fact that they turned their field into something resembling the cratered surface of the moon. My parents didn't even believe in hunting and didn't allow it on their property. But at some point you have to take action to control them. My parents were truly distressed that some groundhogs had to be killed, but they were left with little choice.

Of course, because humans have destroyed natural, resident predators such as coyotes and wolves, populations of ground hogs increase unchecked. That's where the problem lies. And taking glee or pleasure at killing is repulsive.

[realisticphish]

81. Groundhogs are the spawn of the devil

They have collapsed our basement FOUR TIMES by burrowing under the walls. We use a live trap as well, but yes, we DO shoot them if we have a clear, safe shot. Groundhogs do NOT like livetraps... we've only caught 2 in a year, but we HAVE caught dozens of possums

[skooooo]

11. Honestly, I don't know why...

...people get offended when they listen to the Imus show. I just expect a certain amount of politically incorrectness once in a while, and find enough in the show to redeem those moments.

Having said that, yes, Begala's remark turned me off too, but I don't really care. I think that overall they (Begala and Carville) made some good points.

[babylonsister]

13. I agree, and they didn't diss any Dem directly, which I

think is important.

[Mutley]

14. That's not tough, that's just psycho.

:scared:

[oasis]

17. Begala praised Howard Dean for his recent "smackdown" of Wolf

Blitzer. That was his best moment on the show.You may remember how tough CNN's Begala was on Dean during the 2004 primary campaign.

[oneoftheboys]

19. How would you have to put your horse down...

after he stepped in a ground hog hole and broke his leg?

I shoot them too.

[MadHound]

22. In this day and age of modern veterinary practice

If you put down your horse for breaking its leg, then frankly I believe it is you who should be shot.

As for groundhogs, they are an epedimic in places where they have no natural predators left. Fortunately here in Mid Mo, they are kept in check by coyotes, bobcats, hawks, the occaissonal mountain lion and foxes. If you're worried about them getting into your garden, try spraying your plants with a tobacco tea and sprikle so crushed hot peppers on the plants. Works every time, and not with just groundhogs, but deer and rabbit also.

[blindpig]

26. about those red peppers...

do you make a solution or something? Sprinkle them on dry? The damned bambis are eating us up!

[MadHound]

28. Either or

Check with your local gardening store, there is a pepper spray concentrate out on the market, and not only is it good for keeping Bambi away, it is also good for keeping other pests, including bugs away too.

[blindpig]

31. Thanks. n/t

[oneoftheboys]

27. It is true that many advances have been made with respect to...

veterinary medicine. However, it can still be necessary to put a horse down due to a broken leg.

If you believe that people should be shot for stating facts, there is probably no hope for you.

[MadHound]

30. Very very unlikely friend

I've worked as a vet tech with large animals, my sister has worked in the Cornell large animal vet hospital and currently works at the MU large animal hospital, and the means for healing broken legs are now absolutely astounding, from slings to casts with wheels, microsurgery, etc.

In fact even a hundred years ago the main motivation behind shooting a horse with a broken leg was economical rather than the lack of knowledge. It was cheaper to buy another horse than to nurse one back to health. Besides, it was just a dumb animal, right:eyes:

I have a neighbor who raises horses, and his favorite shattered his leg in three places. After three months, a few pins, some slings, and then another year of PT, he is out and riding about on this very same horse.

This isn't a fact that the poster stated, it is a fiction that was taken as fact.

[oneoftheboys]

32. Well, I know some veterinarians too.

In fact, I'm married to one. And the fact remains that whether to treat or euthanize a horse with a broken leg depends on many factors. Some horses and some fractures are not treatable. An old horse would be less likely to heal, and multiple and/or compound fractures are just too difficult to manage. Some horses, like the late, great Ruffian, are unable to remain calm after surgery, and injure themselves flailing around.

And then there is the expense.

So, in comparison, bullets are very cheap and groundhogs are too plentiful.

[MadHound]

33. C'mon down here to MU, see what they're doing with equine fractures

Old horses, young horses, compound, multiple, it really doesn't matter anymore. And if a horse starts to flail around, well there are always light sedatives.

I'm sorry friend, I never buy the economic arguement for putting down an animal, never. Because I always consider animal friends to be on par with human ones, and I would never put down a human because of cost either. Never know when karma will turn around and bite you in the ass.

And frankly I find the whole ethos of "bullets are very cheap" to be vile and disgusting. God help any animal under your care:scared:

[oneoftheboys]

36. I'm not talking about shooting the horse, I'm talking about

shooting the groundhog.

A team of four veterinarians and an orthopedic surgeon worked for 12 hours to save Ruffians leg. Still, in the end, they had to put her down.

I would spare no expense for my horses; however, many of the folks in my neck of the woods do not have that luxury.

So, they, like I, shoot groundhogs.

[MadHound]

46. Then perhaps many of those folks in your neck of the woods

Shouldn't own horses. Don't take on an animal unless you have the means and the humanity to see it through the good times and bad. This goes for any animal, from hamsters to horses. Too many people take on large animals without a clue as to what the true cost can be, and when they find out, they simply shoot the animal and walk away. Sorry, but that is just wrong.

[NNN0LHI]

56. My 5 year old Keeshond blew her knee out over the summer

The thought to put her down never crossed my mind. Off to the orthopedic surgeon I went. Had to make the over hundred mile round trip three times with her. Six months and more than 3000 dollars later she is as good as new.

Don

[KoKo]

57. Ahhh but she's amember of your family...and we take care of our housemate

Pets. But, Woodchucks and Groundhogs are eating Begala's big Tax Write Off for his Shenandoah Farm...and he at some point needs to make a "profit" to comply with the IRS. Unlike the Bush converted "Pig Farm," Begala is a Democrat and the IRS will go after him for his tax deductions...so get his "boys" to shoot the heads off "them GodDamned" Vermin.

Who knows what Mary Matilin has ordered in slaughter over there on the Carville Shenadoah RANCH! She's probably ordered all the Mexican Help Slaughtered if the "crops don't come in as planned." :puke:

[NNN0LHI]

59. It was the money I had been saving up for a plasma TV though

:cry:

[KoKo]

66. lol's....what's there to watch but Blitzer appearing three storey's high!

or Tweety panting after Bushies codpiece...unless it's the sports. :D All folks say they buy it for the "sports."

[oneoftheboys]

74. Before you spring for the plasma you should look at one of these...

http://www.projectorpeople.com/hometheater/projdtls.asp?itemid=20229&itmname=Panasonic+PT%2DAE900U&sid=GAPA

Projectors are the way to go.

[elsiesummers]

80. Agree - got a BenQ - cheaper and better and bigger than plasma!

And I got it from Projector people -they were great.

[oneoftheboys]

83. Alright... Another satisfied ProjectorPeople customer!

It astonishes me to see people pluck down $4, 5 or 6k for a plasma screen, when they can have a 120" screen for less than 1/2 the cost.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

69. I've had Keeshonds all my life. The most people loving dogs

that ever lived. They seem to have ESP to their human's needs. No way could I ever put one down for a broken leg. But I do understand why people with horses would be especially concerned about the seriousness and cost of these types of breaks, especially if caused by a stupid ground hog hole.

[NNN0LHI]

90. This is the second pair of them I have had the pleasure to own

They smile all the time. They make me smile too. They seem to like kids and the elderly best of all. I think they trust them better. Great all around pets though. I have a big gray Tabby cat that hangs with the dogs constantly. I walk the dogs a mile twice a day and the cat goes with us.

Don

[oneoftheboys]

71. Yeah, I suppose they shouldn't own chickens, goats or...

cows either.

I guess they should just sell the farm on go on welfare.

[MadHound]

79. Sorry, strawman arguements don't fly

But yes, if they cannot afford to properly take care of the animals in their charge, then they shouldn't have them. Sorry, but shooting a horse because it has a broken leg is barbaric, especially in this day and age. These old school farm boy buddies of yours need to come out here to Missouri next Novemember and check out the Small Farm Trade Conference and Trade Show. Get caught up on what is happening with 21st century farming, rather than 19th century farming.

I mean really now, are these horses not their companions? Do they not even consider the monetary benefits of healing the horse rather than killing it? After all, if it is any sort of decent horse and breed, stud fees alone would pay for the vet bills alone. But then again, there are many farmers who don't didn't consider the long term cost/benefit ratio either, we call them city dwellers now.

And do these people put their dogs down too when one of them breaks a leg? Or are dogs somehow different because they live in the house and the horse lives in the barn?:eyes:

[oneoftheboys]

82. No strawman here,...

just someone who realizes that everybody doesn't possess the same resources that I have.

Moreover, unlike you, we prefer to prevent our horses from breaking their legs in the first place. It's a country thing, you wouldn't understand.

Still, don't you worry yourself none too much about us "old school farm boys;" for we shall manage to get by some how.

[MadHound]

85. A country thing, yeah, right, whatever

Look, I've never mentioned one word about you shooting groundhogs, for yes indeed, I've been a country boy all my life(or is seven hundred acres in rural Mid Mo not qualify in your book?)

No, what I'm talking to you about is the practice of shooting a horse simply due to the fact that it broke a leg, in this day and age of modern veterinary medicine. Apparently the folks you spoke of earlier either didn't wish to persue such alternatives due to economic reasons, and my thought on that is if they can't afford to treat an animal well, they shouldn't have said animal.

But hey, nice try, diverting the arguement with groundhogs and such. But you just can't get such shit past an old country boy, but of course you knew that, eh?:eyes:

[oneoftheboys]

86. I thought this thread was about shooting groundhogs.

And my point was that shooting groundhogs to avoid a horse’s broken leg makes perfectly good sense to me.

I agreed with you that veterinary medicine has come along way. Still, like human medicine, veterinary medicine is not perfect and sometimes a horse with a broken leg cannot be saved. Yet, you insist that it never has to happen.

So, we will just have to agree to disagree.

[oneoftheboys]

35. Deleted

[Cats Against Frist]

62. He wants to shoot me, because he let his murder dog

come into my yard to eat my four-year-old son, and I decided to shoot it. :)

Madhound just wants to shoot people...

(Just kiddin', Madhound -- I'd hope we could laugh at all that. I'd still shoot the dog, though...:shrug: :rofl: )

[sui generis]

50. isn't it funny

how once you interrupt the natural chain of predation we feel obligated to become the predator at every link ourselves.

We let let deer populations explode without mountain lions and wolves and bears, and then complain when they wander into our gardens. We run sheep on federal park lands and then complain when the few wolves we reintroduce decide to eat sheep instead of deer.

Quite frankly I'm just fed up with stupidity about wildlife. For some people the "not in my backyard thing" trumps wildlife diversity every time. That works until there's nothing left but backyards and no wildlife.

If you build a house next to the airport, don't shoot at the airplanes, or conversely, if you don't like airplanes then build a house somewhere else besides the airport.

If you don't like wildlife . . .

[oneoftheboys]

73. Well, I don't know about you,

but I really don't want to live in an area where the animals prey on me. As such, I am willing to take it upon myself to fill the gap in the "natural chain of predation."

[sui generis]

75. beware

the wild man eating beaver :scared:

[oneoftheboys]

84. I will...

:hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Don't drive your horse into woodchuck holes.

[theHandpuppet]

44. Well, that's pretty silly

A horse doesn't need to be driven into groundhog (NOT woodchuck) holes by a rider. Have you ever seen a field littered by the tunnels and holes of a groundhog colony? You can't even see some of the holes until you are right on top of them. Horses (and cattle and deer, among others) can simply be pastured and still be crippled by stepping into one of those holes.

You know, I'm not a hunter and I personally abhor hunting unless it's to put food on the table. But some folks around here have no idea what damage is done by an unchecked population of groundhogs -- including the danger to other animals and the destruction of NATURAL habitats that other animals need to survive. I especially like some of the ignorant comments within this thread (this is not directed at you) from some folks here who've never seen a groundhog except from the pages of a coffee table book from the cozy confines of their urban townhome.

[BlackVelvet04]

60. Thank you...

We had a groundhog that kept burrowing under our very large storage building...sorry, the groundhog had to go. If he been allowed to keep it up the building would have started shifting and the floor would have collapsed.

I have a backyard full of other critters and I feed them and purposely don't have any domestic animals to endanger them but I didn't hesitate in getting rid of the groundhog.

[theHandpuppet]

65. Same situation my parents found themselves in

They did not hunt themselves, nor did they allow hunting on their property, which was mainly virgin forest. Deer, wild turkeys, wild ducks, raptors and birds of all kinds, etc are free to wander and feed as they please. But the groundhog population was another matter. As their population ever increased, they were literally destroying the fields and with it the food sources and natural habitat of other animals. They were even forcing out the rabbits, whose populations were normally controlled by the many hawks in the area. Eventually even seeing a rabbit was a rare event as the groundhogs became more and more numerous. Finally, after some groundhogs tunneled their way under one of dad's outbuildings and collapsed the floor, something had to be done. I killed two of the groundhogs with a rifle, the ones which had set up residence next to the house. I certainly did not enjoy doing it, but that's the facts. There are still plenty more of them tearing up Mom's property, which she will tolerate as long as they stay away from the house.

Yes, my parents loved animals. They wouldn't even kill field mice, and if they found any in the house would carry the nest out to the woods. But folks who think of groundhogs as some cuddly critters akin to large hamsters are naive. Groundhogs, especially in colony populations, are incredibly destructive, aggressive, and can literally destroy the natural habitats of other wild animals. Rather like humans in that regard, you could say. To take any pleasure in killing them is pretty sick IMHO, but in some circumstances there isn't much of an option but to cull the population.

[oneoftheboys]

45. Drive...?

You need to get out into the country every now and then.

The fresh air would be good for you.

[sendero]

51. There is a faction..

.... of people here who are as incapable of seeing a situation through another's eyes as Bush** is.

Their quaint idea of life involves going to the store and picking up some groceries, the production of which entailed horrors that make the slaying of a vermin rodent seem like small potatos.

Don't worry, they aren't going to get it no matter how much you talk. Welcome to DU.

[oneoftheboys]

70. Right you are, my friend.

In fact, some here remind me of Republican acquaintance of mine who can’t see past the end of his nose.

The problem with it all is this is these are people (my country neighbors) that support Democratic candidates at the local and state levels. On the other hand, they are alienated by the type of high brow; know it all types that permeate this board.

I suppose that’s why the Democratic candidates with the most success on the national level are from my neck of the woods (the south).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. I do live in the country.

And, I seem to manage doing so without killing off the wildlife.

[oneoftheboys]

72. Well, perhaps there is hope for you, after all.

[Lorien]

29. Teaching one's children to find joy in the taking of a life-ANY life

makes Begala nothing less than vermin. In the 70's were had a term for his sort; Republicans.

[KoKo]

58. I kinda' felt the way you did when I heard that. Shouting "KILL!" sort

of put me over the edge with Begala. It wasn't necessary unless he was trying to look like he was teaching his kids to be good little "killers," to follow Generals into Battle under a "Commander in Chief" like Bush...they will obey when the General and Commander yell: "KILL!"

There are lots of things one can do today besides "KILL." But, it takes some time and innovation even with squirrels who rob our bird feeders and groundhogs or woodchucks...even though I understand DU'ers who've had their gardens raided and it's a difference when Begala with his big tax write off for his "FARM" needs to show a profit and those of us who try to eat to live from our gardens and who still might "preserve" our produce through the old fashioned ways like canning them for the Winter. :eyes:

I though Begala was either grandstanding to get "gun toaters" to buy their book...based on the fact that all Begala and Carville were pushing was that Repugs and America see Dems as SOFT ON WAR.

It wasn't "WAR." It was the "INVASION OF IRAQ" you stupid F**er's whoring yourself on Imus who is a total Whore of Whores....:puke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Too bad the woodchucks can't shoot back.

But that wouldn't be "sporting" for the "sportsmen".

[WI_DEM]

43. Now I'd have more respect if he were in a rattle snake pit where

at least the victims would have a fair chance.

[applegrove]

55. He should get one of those noise makers that only groundhogs can

hear. Still - on a farm - you do need a gun. Livestock is killed by broken legs due to groundhog holes. Even if it is a hobby farm - that is part of the way it works.

What is the difference between a gun and some massive pesticide. Neither are a pleasant way to die. I wouldn't get my sons to kill groundhogs. But then again - I don't have a farm.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

61. Fuckhead

He repulsed most democrats and didn't impress any repukes since they would only be impressed if they were shooting at black people.

[mantrid]

63. What a sick asshole. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

64. Having had groundhogs spoil my tomato crops by going along the rows

and taking a single bite of every almost-ripe tomato, I can't work up much sympathy for the groundhogs. Sometimes you have to kill pests.

[KoKo]

67. The Iraqi's certainly were pests....so are the Iranians...all that oil

that we need to support our lifestyle.

That's how it mushrooms. Killing starts small...with small things...defenseless things...pests.

:-( I understand what you say...it's a hard thing to deal with. But, I use cloves to deter ants. I can't kill much...except cockroaches. Maybe some folks see mammals the same as I see cockroaches...

[Zynx]

77. You're equating killing varmints with killing people?

Not much corrolary between more rural states where rats, groundhogs, and other rodents are shot and homicide rates.

Wild rodents are not your friends.

[Habibi]

68. Well, I haven't been moved to kill the one or two in my 'hood

but so far, there've only been the one or two. And they've seemed more interested in the bird seed I've put out than my 'maters and peppers. I'll keep an eye on them, though. I won't kill them if they get out of hand, but I'll certainly consider getting another dog.

[Zynx]

76. It's called varmint shooting. Very common activity.

Get out from under your urban rock, please.

[Beausoir]

87. I certainly think less of him as a human being because of this.

[Ksec]

88. Saw it and was simply embarassed for Begala

The man looked fkin creepy when he was talking about writing in his journal about gay rights while screaming at his sons to kill groundhogs. He really looked ...creepy. Trying too hard to convince the Reicht that hes a man I guess.

[chookie]

89. I can't believe all the anti-G Hog hostility here!

Boy, I haven't seen a thread with dripping with such hostility and vituperation since Reagan died! I'll agree that they can be destructive to gardens, but when someone goes as far as to claim they are aggressive, I really have to say "whoa!"

Fat little fuzzy guys. How can anyone hate them? I guess being from Pennsylvania, a place that holds woodchucks in high esteem as valuable weather pronosticators, gives me a totally different outlook on the little marmots.