"If a public sector employee is able to retire...

[SHRED]

...at 55 with 80 percent of their wages...."

One problem with this Mr. President...you would have to put in 30 to 35 years of service for this.
Very few do this overall. A small fractional minority of public workers.

And besides, what is 30 years serving the public worth?

Apparently not much.


http://blogs.govexec.com/fedblog/2011/08/obama_to_unions_i_back_you_but.php


---

[HereSince1628]

1. His press secretary needs to cough up a source for that...

I'm puzzled about that...I thought it might be based on the military as 'public sector,'
but what I found was military can can retire with a maximum of 75% at 30 years of service.

[SHRED]

4. It's possible however...

...first one needs to have a retirement medical benefit in order to retire at 55 and most don't.
Also, the amount of public workers retiring at 55 with that pecentage is very small.

For instance, I will be 55 in Nov. with 20 years of public service. My retirement formula is 2.7% @ 55. You times years of service (20) by 2.7% = 54% of my pay.

[SHRED]

9. We still like facts don't we?

I know in this age of petty jealously brought on by articifial shortage the facts get left behind but here are some anyway:


The average CalPERS pension is about $25,000 per year. Half of CalPERS retirees receive $18,000 per year or less in benefits. Unlike the private sector, 40% of CalPERS retirees do not receive Social Security, making their CalPERS pension their sole source of pension income, other than savings.

Seventy-four percent of CalPERS retirees receive $36,000 per year or less. School pensioners in the CalPERS program receive on average $1,192.00 a month.

About 2 percent of the nearly half million CalPERS retirees receive annual pensions of $100,000 or more. Many are retired non-unionized or specialized skilled employees or other high wage earners who worked 30 years or more. Many served in high-level management positions

CalPERS pensioners help stimulate the economy. A study found that pension income to 674,000 CalPERS and CalSTRS retirees generated an economic impact of $21.1 billion to the State’s cities and counties. The economic footprint of retiree spending rivaled that of the hotel and accommodations industry of the State in 2006. In all, California public retirees put back $2 into the economy for every $1 they receive in pensions.

http://www.calpersresponds.com/myths.php/myth-public-pension-benefits-are-excessive

[BeyondGeography]

2. If very few do it then it's no problem phasing it out, correct?

[SHRED]

5. are you serious?

[BeyondGeography]

6. Yes

And congratulations on being able to retire with 54% of your pay at age 55. You have lived in a golden moment in U.S. history. You should be happy and thankful instead of moaning about the ingratitude of society toward its public servants.

[SHRED]

7. Why the division?

As the public sector goes so goes the private and vice versa.
We need to unite and not divide.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Your service has obviously been highly valued, why suggest otherwise?

[Demit]

12. The thing about unions—and this goes for boomers in the social security debate—is that

they want these benefits for everybody, not just themselves. Yes, the person you are scolding will get his. And yes, boomers will escape (most of) the SS cuts that are coming. But they're not gloating about it, as you seem to expect they should be doing. They don't believe in separating society from 'public servants'. Society includes everybody.

[SHRED]

15. very well said

[BeyondGeography]

16. That's the true blue belief and it's noble

But the OP segregates public service out specifically.

[Demit]

22. It's only talking about jobs in public service as opposed to jobs in service to a corporation

Now that people who are spending their working lives in service to private business are getting the shaft, the heat is on to drag everyone down to that level. Shitty pay, shitty retirement. They're playing on your jealousy and resentment to buy into it. And it seems to be working. Misery loves company, after all.

[BeyondGeography]

25. Defined benefit pensions were replaced with 401K's a long time ago

Most places, at least. What has changed is the appreciation of what that means. For me, starting out in the workplace in the mid-80's when this happened, the math never added up. Give me a guaranteed $30-40K per year supplemented by SS over the perils of the casino any day of the week. Now that most people are seeing the folly of that, they have little sympathy for the "plight" of those with much better deals. Politicians, including Obama, are exploiting this resentment to score political points and save money. No one, least of all union leadership, should be surprised.

[Demit]

29. Exploitation is the name of the game, BG. That's how & why unions came about.

Unions have a long and bloody history, so I don't think unions are surprised by exploitation. The surprise, I think, is being felt by workers who thought they would get a better deal than they would being in a union. Who thought their talents would be naturally recognized and rewarded by management. Now they know better. Now they're angry. They see how they've been exploited, and they want workers who made the better choice after all to suffer for it.

[BeyondGeography]

31. Union roots are well worth remembering

and that's a problem in this country. People don't think it's ever going to happen to them.

What we have here, on the other hand, is every man for himself, on both sides of the equation. I would wager that most union members don't give a fig about historical memory and what union members can teach private sector workers, they just want to keep what's rightfully theirs and protect their membership going forward. Can't blame them for that, but it's no surprise that taxpayers who are afraid they will outlive their own money and read all the time about budget-challenged governments, failing schools and the possibility/reality of higher taxes are easily arranged against them. Which, of course, is why you see deals like this:

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/131171/1/After-CSEA-Contract-Focus-Turns-to-Smaller-Unions-in-New-York

[Demit]

33. I don't think you should be claiming to know what union members think.

In fact, you are projecting onto them the kind of thinking that those who disparage unions have—that 'every man for himself' worldview. But union members know that what you call historical memory, as if it was long ago and can never happen again, is happening now. Break the power of workers who have organized, and break their ability to ever organize for power again. With that as an example to the rest of us, exploitation will proceed apace. BG, unions are our last line of defense.

The corporatists and their cohort have succeeded in part—by getting you to think of "taxpayers" versus "workers." As if public employees don't pay taxes like the rest of the public does, or do meaningful work that the rest of the public makes use of. Get you to think of public employees as the other, and now they have a scapegoat for you to be angry at. Usually predators separate the weakest out of the herd to kill, but if they can get the herd to turn against its own, the one who is still strong, their job is so much easier, isn't it?

[Ship of Fools]

23. And you assume, of course,

that the person's comment to which you are referring is that *it's all about me...* Is it too much to ask that people understand that we are concerned for each other, our children, our grandchildren, and the very definition of what it is to be an American? Is it???? I'm CERTAIN that the 54-percenter is grateful, and I APPLAUD them for their success. I won't be applauding, however, if this country falls under leadership that FORCES us to be ever-so-GRATEFUL that we have a leaking roof over our heads and a pantry full of cat food. Get it now?

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Correct. But who's getting 80%?

Maybe *someone*, *somewhere*.

But can't be very many and includes no one I know.

I detect a little hint in the air of Reaganesque," Welfare Cadillac " demagoguery.

Thanks, Mr. President.

I'm looking at 50% at age 55 after 25 yrs as a NYC public employee. Far as I know, we're better off than almost every other public sector employee.

[BeyondGeography]

13. That's a fair point

They want to redo the entire system, so they peddle what will be perceived as excesses up front. No doubt about it.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The point is he is painting a false picture willfully. It is wrong to

do so. Add to that the fact that this President makes claims of being so devoted to Christian teachings that he can not bear the idea of gay people being equal, and take a look at the 'rules and regulations' for how a Christian should speak, make use of words, and you see a hypocrite sandwich laying on a plate. He, the Big Christian, is commanded to never, ever use language in any way that is not as precise and accurate as humanly possiblee- to do anything else Jesus said 'comes from evil'.
So, he needs to shut up about his non practiced faith. He rejects it all, save his beloved 'anti gay' bits.

[valerief]

3. How much does Congress retire with? After a four or six year stint? nt

[w0nderer]

14. let congress be the leading star of definition

Congressional pension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension


quote:
The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year.<3>

[valerief]

32. And that example would be the same for a Congress member who worked only six years. nt

[w0nderer]

35. statement or query?

if query, i don't know

if statement, holy sh..!
i need to run for office!

[valerief]

36. Based on the link you provided, statement. nt

[Cool Logic]

11. "what is 30 years serving the public worth?"

That is a question for the public that is being "served" to decide.

You might be surprised to hear their answer.

[Demit]

17. What do you think YOUR working at a job for 30 years should be worth?

I imagine I could value it less than you do, if given the opportunity to rule on your retirement benefits.

[Cool Logic]

21. "What do you think YOUR working at a job for 30 years should be worth?"

It's not a matter of what I think or how I feel; it's a matter of what my 401k is worth.

[Demit]

30. LOL! So your company already showed you what it thinks you're worth.

A big "thanks for the 30 years and good luck to you! Enjoy your rugged individualist old age!"

[Cool Logic]

34. The question still lingers...the server...or those being served...?

Which, of the two, determines the value of the server?

As an aside: If I were to work at the same place for 30 years, I wouldn't have to worry about retirement. For I would have long ago been killed by boredom and/or the lack of challenges.

[SHRED]

19. do they know the magnitude or...

...would they rely on the negative imagery perpetrated in the corporate media?

Another question.

[Cool Logic]

28. The magnitude of what...?

Corporate media...? Perhaps, but what is it...2 to 2.5 million that watch Fox News?

That means that 305 to 305.5 million get their news from other sources.

[Scuba]

18. Very poor words coming from the Prez's mouth. If he wants to be a divider...

...I suggest he not pick a point among middle class government workers, but with billionaires who do no work at all yet pay a lower tax rate than those who do.

[madrchsod]

24. my wife is a afscme public/private worker with no retirement.

she could get a 401 but she does`t make enough to afford it.

[OHdem10]

26. How many raises and in some cases pay cuts did Union forfeit

in order to have their good pension plans.

This is where the President shows insensiblity.

Yes, in Private Sector, people lost salary and
benefits. They chose not to have Unions.

Does it really matter any more?? Both Parties
have become Pro-Business Parties.

[RC]

27. The question no has ask so far:

What was the job of this "Public Sector Employee"? Fireman? An Engineer making sure our infrastructure parts, before and during their life cycles, are safe?
In truth, our military is "Public Sector" They are paid peanuts to put their lives on the line.
Not all public sector employees work on the other side of the window, from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM, to antagonizing you when you need something.