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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 03:46 PM
Original message
Thurman for Fl Chair?
Edited on Tue Dec-16-08 03:46 PM by DaLittle Kitty
 
Run time: 10:09
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Posted on DU: December 16, 2008
By DU Member: DaLittle Kitty
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To again choose this piece of work as the Chair of The Florida Democratic Party? Primary Fiasco... and on and on.....

Democratic wave and we get ONE Florida House Seat and One legitimate Democrat Grayson and ONE Republicrat Kosmos to Congress.


And who is going to be krazy enough to step up to run for Governor of Florida when the State Chair publicly calls Crist a Democrat? :puke:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. why don't we just let the GOP head run both parties, it won't change anything....
juss sayin'!

These designs on dozens of different shirts, button, stickers, mugs & more! http://www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable/1434671


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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Right. In Florida They Already Do! That IOS The Problem!
:puke: on the scum!
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ugh... I thought Strom for a moment and shuddered.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Thurmanites Are trying To "Fix" The Pinellas Election Results!
:puke: Get onit and make certain that ONLY those who renewed their oaths in a timely fashion are allowed to have their votes counted! More intramural hijinks!
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FreeJG Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, here is the claim, the votes were miscounted and they still want to stop democracy!
Will Thurman step in and recite the by-laws once again as she did before the election? Only those with new valid oaths are eligible to vote. That means Helm in Pinellas won, and not Ricky Boylan. But now they want to explain "their side of things". This is not about opinion, but the current laws of the Florida Dem Party. You can change those laws for the future, but not for an election that did not go your way! Here is the claim made by the candidate who filed a result challenge.
*******************
Ram-
Here is my draft for the report. Knowing how busy Chris is, I went ahead with a draft that I invite the three members of the Credentials Committee to adopt.

In case anyone has trouble opening the attachment, here it is:

The following report results from the investigation of an election Complaint by Ed
Helm. Mr. Helm is an elected PCDEC member who challenged the announced
result of the election for State Committeeman, an election where he was a
candidate. Following several meetings including with Credentials Committee
members Chris Piccone and Dawn Hunter, the following facts and conclusions are
found:
Eligible voters voting valid ballots at the December 4, 2008
Organizational meeting of the PCDEC voted 71 votes for Helm for
State Committeeman; 69 votes for Boylan. Thus, Helm received a
majority of the valid ballots cast and should be declared "elected."
To be eligible to vote in the organizing meeting of December 4, 2008, an
individual needed to be either an "elected" or "automatic" member of the PCDEC.
In both instances, "before taking office" (including voting and as provided by the
FDP Charter (see below)) or "Before performing any duty as a member of the
County Committee," (see below) each member had to file a FDP required oath.
This requirement is explicitly provided in the following authorities:
Florida Democratic Party Charter:
SECTION 6. Loyalty Oath: Members of the Florida Democratic Party, including Party officers, Party
candidates, elected Democratic officials, and members of Party committees, commissions, and clubs,
shall execute by written oath or affirmation the loyalty oath in the form included in the Bylaws of the
Florida Democratic Party before taking office, or, in the case of a candidate running for the Party's
nomination, at the time of qualifying. (emphasis added)
Bylaws of the Pinellas County Democratic Executive Committee:
Article IV. Section 3. Oath of Office: Before performing any duty as a member of the County
Committee, each member shall file with the Secretary a notarized oath of Office in the form prescribed by
the FDP.
143 members filed notarized oaths conforming to the FDP.
71 of these members voted valid ballots for Helm. They are:
Alexander; Bellian; Bleichner; L. Bright; D. Bryant; M. Bryant; Bucolo, Cook, Curry, Darling, Davis; Dehmel; Delaney;
D. Dray; R. Dray; Freedman; Garth; F. Glenn; K. Glenn; Goodale; Gray; Haak; Hallahan; Hamilton; Hanisee; Heine;
Heitov; A. Helm; E. Helm; Hickman; Hodgen; Hrabovsky; Hubbard; Hunter; Illingworth; Ines; B. Jones; Keel; Kilboy;
Killingsworth; Know; Lanza; Leichardt; Leventis; Lumpkin; Matteliano; McCallum; McCallum; McCann; Mells;
Merritt; Miller; Morgner; Morris; Murtagh; Myers; Nazaro; Nelson; Paul; Plantamura; Risk; Roundtree; Rush; Soares;
Tito; J. Ulrich; Joan Ulrich; K. Ulrich; White; Wright; Zeller.
69 of these members voted valid ballots for Boylan. They are:
Biddle; Bliss; Bowles; Boylan; Brandt; Brudy; Caldwell; Camble; Citron; J. Davis; Denmon; Dishman; Dobbs; Dumond;
Egan; Eppley; Freeman; Gilbert; Godfrey; J. Goen; G. Goen; Granata; Gustafson; Hansen; Harris; Hofstader; Hunter;
Jackson; Kates; Keebler; Landry; Lapinski; Libby; Lorente; Lyttle; Maradie; Marsh; McGinnis; McHugh; R.
McLaughlin; Misserville; Molloy; Morris; Nilsson; Norris; Olson; Percy; Pictor; Rhodes; Schnipper; Scott; Sheets; A.
Smith; E. Smith; M. Smith; Starr; Steck; Stevens; Taylor; Virgil; Wall; R. Ward; W. Ward; Warren; Welch;
Wethrington; Yaco; C. Zimmerman; T. Zimmerman.
3 of these members did not vote: Fox; Kelly; Thompson.
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008
It should be noted that no proxies nor automatic voters caste valid votes. No
such votes were counted because in no case were there either proxy givers who
had provided a required oath along with the proxy nor had any automatic
members, including those present at the organizing meeting, completed and
submitted required oaths. In one case, an automatic member's vote was rejected
on the additional grounds that she offered her ballot for the State Committeeman
race at an inappropriate time. ( Rep. J. Long)
It should also be noted that it is only the race for State Committeeman that is
included in the challenge, investigation, and this report. The other races are
neither challenged, nor at this point, can they be since the five workday window
for filing such a challenge is over. See PCDEC Bylaws, Article VI, Sec. 7.

Several questions arose in the discussion of this challenge:
Q: Should an older oath (one signed and notarized before December 1, 2008, the
date when new committeepeople formal term of office could begin) be valid?
A: No. For a member to perform any duty of their new office, including voting,
they needed to file an oath that was completed on or after December 1, 2008.
See below clarification in correspondence between FDP Chair Thurman and FDP
National Committeeman, Jon Ausman. Mr. Ausman has also separately stated
that new oaths are required for the new term of office for each member.
Additionally, there are no reports of any member producing an 'old' oath to fulfill
the oath requirement and being denied a ballot. If some members were told that
their 'old' oaths were on file and would count, they might consider filing a
grievance against the party so misinforming them. Even if there were such files,
no 'old' oaths were brought from PCDEC files so as to enable confirmation that
the would-be-voter did actually have such an 'old' oath on file.
As it was, the responsibility for this election was with the former Chair who
directed or permitted a procedure that failed to adequately safeguard the
importance of the oath requirements. When new PCDEC members entered the
hall, they could not see the table set up to help them complete oaths--that had
been set up inside the big inner room, off to the right side. Unlike the
Hillsborough DEC elections which had set up one set of contiguous tables with
the initial act of someone coming to vote signing and notarizing a new loyalty
oath, the system organized by Ms. Molinaro had people who immediately got
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008
their ballots and then proceeded to to the big assembly room where they might
or might not visit the table set up to assist people completing the required oaths.
Even there the system was dysfunctional with Ms. Briley at one end of the table
telling members that they did not have to complete an oath to be able to caste
valid ballots--that it was "optional" and Mr. Helm at the other end of the table
telling people that FDP and PCDEC bylaws required them to have complete oaths
before they could validly vote. Again, the remedy for misinformation is not to
ignore the bylaw requirements but for damaged members to grieve or otherwise
seek redress from those causing the damage.
Mr. Helm notes that he sent several emails to the former Chair of the Credentials
Committee, Ms. Gates, including the Ausman/Thurman email, below, urging her
to communicate to all members the need to file the required oath in order to be
able to vote. On November 29, 2008, Mr. Helm emailed Ms. Gates, then still chair
of the Credentials Committee, "I am glad that you are addressing the
requirement for new members needing to sign oaths required by the FDP. This
will include Democrats elected to public office as well, correct? As I read the
State By-laws, before any person, including automatic members, can participate
in elections or other activities, they need to sign the required oath." She rejected
or ignored these messages. Mr. Helm also forwarded the Ausman/Thurman
email to all the candidates for PCDEC Chair the morning of December 4, 2008.
(These emails are available should anyone wish to see them.)
Q: Do automatic members also need to file the required oath in order to validly
vote in the State Committeeman race?
A: Yes. The above FDP provisions and PCDEC provisions expressly and implicitly
so require automatic members to file the same oath that committeemen and
women need to file. Additional expert opinion by FDP leaders confirm this
conclusion. Practical reasons support the same conclusion.
Q. Do proxy holders need to produce the required oaths for the member
providing the proxy before they can validly vote the proxy?
A: Yes. See the legal advisory opinion by Mr. Herron, below, to Chair Thurman
which includes his statement:
"You have also inquired whether a newly elected member may execute a proxy in
favor of another without having executed the required loyalty oath. It is my view
that he or she may not, inasmuch as execution of the oath is required
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008
prerequisite to assuming the office, one cannot exercise the powers of the office
without having executed the loyalty oath as required." (emphasis added)
There are several senior Democratic leaders in different areas of Florida who
could support these conclusions and assist in the decision. Mr. Helm stands ready
to assist with their names or in other ways. He requests a prompt decision so
that he may begin to fulfill the duties of Pinellas State Committeeman right away.
____________________ ___________________ ___________________
Chris Piccone, Cred. Com. Dawn Hunter, Cred. Com. Toni Molinaro, Cred.Com.
________EGH____________ I concur. ________________
Ed Helm, Grievant Date
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monday, December 01, 2008 5:39 PM
Dear Jon,
Below is my correspondence with Mark Herron, which I hope will clarify some of
the questions we've been receiving regarding newly elected DEC members and
loyalty oaths.

Sincerely,
Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party
December 1, 2008
Karen Thurman
Chair
Florida Democratic Party
214 South Bronough Street
Tallahassee, FL 32301
RE: Loyalty Oath Requirement
Dear Ms. Thurman:
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008
The purpose of this correspondence is to respond to your inquiries
concerning when newly elected members of a county Democratic Executive
Committee can execute the loyalty oath prescribed in the Bylaws of the Florida
Democratic Party as required by the Charter of The Florida Democratic Party.* A
copy of the loyalty prescribed by the Bylaws is attached hereto.
Article I, Section 6 of the Charter of The Florida Democratic Party
provides as follows:
Loyalty Oath: Members of the Florida Democratic Party, including Party officers,
Party candidates, elected Democratic officials, and members of Party committees,
commissions, and clubs, shall execute by written oath or affirmation the loyalty
oath in the form included in the Bylaws of the Florida Democratic Party before
taking office, or, in the case of a candidate running for the Party's nomination, at
the time of qualifying.
(Emphasis added)
My reading of this provision permits newly elected members of
Democratic Executive Committee's to execute the loyalty oath prescribed in the
Bylaws of the Florida Democratic Party any time prior to taking office. Elected
members of the county Democratic Executive Committee take office on the first
day of the month following each presidential general election. See Article V,
Section 1.1.6 of the Bylaws of the Florida Democratic Party. Accordingly, the
loyalty oath may be properly executed on December 1.
You have also inquired whether a newly elected member may execute a
proxy in favor of another without having executed the required loyalty oath. It is
my view that he or she may not, inasmuch as execution of the oath is required
prerequisite to assuming the office, one cannot exercise the powers of the office
without having executed the loyalty oath as required.
I trust that the foregoing is responsive to your inquiries. If you have any
additional questions or concerns, please let me know.
Sincerely,

Mark Herron
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008
cc: Leonard Joseph, Executive Director.
*The loyalty oath prescribed in the Bylaws of the Florida Democratic Party differs
from the statutorily required loyalty oath required of all candidates for party
offices contained on Division of Elections form DS-DE-24C.
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION OF HELM ELECTION COMPLAINT DEC. 2008




On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Ramsay McLauchlan <ramsay@mclauchlan.us> wrote:

Ed -

I have agreed with you that a credidentials report from Chris, Dawn and Toni would be acceptable and I wish to continue in this direction.

The three people mentioned above will be producing a report that will be given to me (as we agreed). I will evaluate the report and make a decsion if I agree with the reports determination of whether or not "irregularity be found to have occurred which may have affected the outcome of the challenged election".

As you state, there is no grevience committee to vote on the report and the only members of the Credentials Committee are: Toni Molinaro, Dawn Hunter and Chris Picccone. They will vote on the report and submit it to me.

Ramsay McLauchlan






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Edward Helm <edwardhelm@gmail.com>
To: Toni Molinaro <tonimolinaro@gmail.com>
Cc: Ramsay McLauchlan <ramsay@mclauchlan.us>; Linda Lee Gates <llgates@gmail.com>; Rick Boylan <rqboylan@gmail.com>; "Piccone, Chris" <PiccoChr@berkeleyprep.org>; Dawn Hunter <pinellas4obama@gmail.com>; David Schauer <david@schauer.com>; Linda E. Lucas <lucasle@eckerd.edu>; Steve Lapinski <miaflsteve@yahoo.com>; Steven McHugh <stevenmchugh@yahoo.com>; Judy Nelson <JudithNelson35@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:32:03 AM
Subject: Re: PCDEC Election for State Committeeman Challenge


Toni-

You wrongly contend, I believe, that Linda Lee Gates and Steve McHugh are still members of the Credentials Committee. PCDEC Bylaws, even if the controlling Florida Statutes were not dispositive, explicitly restrict the Credentials Committee's involvement in the organizing meeting election, let alone after the meeting. See PCDEC Bylaws, Art. X Secs. 2.2.2 (Credentials Committee shall meet prior to an election other than election at organizing meetings); and Sec. 2.2.4 (Committee sole judge of eligibility to vote except elections held at organizing meeting); Accord: Art. IX, 2.1 (term of district leaders is two years "except expiring prior to Presidential election year organizational meeting pursuant to FDP Charter and Bylaws").

By only naming Linda Lee and Steve (what about former Credentials Committee member, Judi Nelson, for example ?), your partisanship is showing. (Maybe theirs, too. I have requested several times from Steve the minutes of the last few credentials committee meetings and have not received them.)

But most importantly, Florida law, in my opinion, makes inapposite the PCDEC Bylaw provisions you would rely on regarding select members of the Credentials Committee having the ability to continue in office after November 30, 2008.

The relevant authority is Florida Law, (FS 103.091(4)) which states that "The terms shall commence on the first day of the month following each presidential election; but the names of candidates for political party offices shall not be placed on the ballot at any other election...." There is one and only one exception to the Statutory mandate for the previous PCDEC members and officers to expire before this December 1 date every Presidential election year. Florida statutes identify this only exception as the "outgoing chair" whose role after the expiration of all of other members' terms of office on November 30th of every Presidential year is limited to "hold an organizational meeting of all newly elected members for the purpose of election of officers." Id. Conflicting PCDEC Bylaws which would abrogate these statutory provisions by continuing pre-Nov. 30th positions and offices into December 1, 2008, and beyond when every newly elected member takes office, would not be valid even if they existed.

I would appreciate your providing me copies of the email and other records you received from the FDP and/or Chair Thurman regarding the necessity for voters at the organizing meeting to submit FDP oaths in order to validly vote in the PCDEC organizing meeting. A neighboring county former chair indicated to me that he had gotten such direction and I assume you did as well.

If you have not sent to Eagle Printing ( 1740 Drew St., Clearwater, 33755,) the $95 that you agreed to pay on election day for the c. 7000 palm cards they printed, please do so asap. Your cards were distributed throughout north Pinellas. Thank you for your attention to this.

Best wishes,
Ed Helm




On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Toni Molinaro <tonimolinaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ramsay,
I still would contend that Linda Lee Gates and Stephen McHugh are still members of the Credentials Committee as they were both elected AT LARGE in January of 07 for a two year term. It does not say for 1 year and 11 months. Besides, the Credentials Committee group is charged with coming up with the rules for an election, and it is the job of the chair and secretary to implement them. If a challenge is presented, then it seems to me to have them present when the challenge is presented to answer any questions in regards to rules or procedures that they agreed upon.

I would apply the same rule to the Grievance Group. They are elected for 2 years.

It is my understanding that Ed Helm met with Chris and Dawn on Saturday so that he may do some research for his case. Chris called me and said that Ed would contact him again after he thought more about his challenge. There was no meeting on Sunday.

Regards,
Toni Molinaro


On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Ramsay McLauchlan <ramsay@mclauchlan.us> wrote:

Everyone -

We are in a odd time where it is unclear if any committees exist to address the current challenge.

After reading the bylaws, it appears that there is no Grievance Committee (and therefore no Chair) it also appears that the only members of the Credentials Committee are the DEC Secretary, Vice Chair and immediate past Chair.

If all of the above is true, two issues are raised:

First, who should be addressing the challenge? Ed Helm agrees that Chris, Dawn and Toni have the authority to overseeing his challenge. Chris, you may reach out to whomever you see as appropriate to get information regarding the challenge, but it is you, Dawn and Toni who should make the evaluation of the merits of the challenge(s).

Second, when the committee decides the merits of any of the challenges, as well as if Ed drops any of them, who should receive the final report/evaluation/decision? Ed Helm agrees that absent Chairs of either Credentials or Grievance Committees, I alone will receive the results of the final inspection of the votes.

If anyone has objection to this procedure, please let me know as soon as possible.

I appreciate all of the work that everyone has been doing to address this challenge in a timely fashion.

Ramsay McLauchlan
Chair
Pinellas Democratic Party

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Linda Lee Gates <llgates@gmail.com>
To: Edward Helm <edwardhelm@gmail.com>; Ramsay McLauchlan <ramsay@mclauchlan.us>; Rick Boylan <rqboylan@gmail.com>; Toni Molinaro <tonimolinaro@gmail.com>; "Piccone, Chris" <PiccoChr@berkeleyprep.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:17:37 PM
Subject: Re: My Challenge to the Dec. 4, 2008, PCDEC Election for State Committeeman


Greetings all,

As provided by the PCDEC Rules and By-laws, we will meet this Sunday morning at 9 am at the DEC Headquarters to discuss Mr. Helm's challenges mentioned below.

Those invited to attend:

Ed Helm
Rick Boylan
Chris Piccone - Secretary
Myself - Credentials
Toni Molinaro - Credentials

Mr. McLauchlan, we will need to have someone appointed to represent the Grievance Committee.

Please respond via email or phone to let me know if you will be in attendance.

Sincerely,
Linda Lee Gates
Acting PCDEC Credentials Chair

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Edward Helm <edwardhelm@gmail.com> wrote:

To: Members of the PCDEC Credentials Committee.

I am a member of the PCDEC. I file this challenge with a members of the Credentials Committee of the PCDEC who are specified in Article X, Sec. 2.2.1.

I challenge the results of the Dec. 4, 2008, PCDEC Election for State Committeeman and request an inspection of the reports and records pursuant to Article VI of the PCDEC By-laws. The reasons for my challenge include:

1. The failure to require completed oaths from people prior to their voting, as required by FDP bylaws and directives from the FDP Chair along with the FDP attorney. The then Chair of the Credentials Committee wrongly insisted that the oath was optional and it was up to the next PCDEC Chair and Credentials Committee as to whether or not members had to sign and file notarized FDP loyalty oaths.
2. The announced number of voters for the election was 228; yet the announced voters voting in the State Committeeman race were 230.
3. The failure of the Credentials Committee to meet, decide and report the procedures for the election. This failure includes the selection of numerous individuals to conduct the election who were stating to individuals that they did not have to sign oaths before voting; the procedures permitted ballots were provided to individuals who had not signed notarized oaths. The Credentials Committee had neither agreed on nor directed procedures for insuring that all voters were PCDEC members who had signed oaths filed before they were provided ballots and allowed to vote.
4. There were no apparent processes for insuring that proxies were being legally voted including checking to insure that the proxy holder was from the same district as the member or that the member had submitted a signed, notarized oath before the proxy holder was issued a ballot. It is not clear that any proxy holder was required to sign a notarized oath.

Sincerely,
Ed Helm
Pct. Committeeman 103
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Same Ole Manure From The Same Bunch Of ManureHeads!
Stand Fast Mr. helm against the foes of Democracy. They CANNOT even function fairly and w/ integrity in an intramural contest. It IS EXCLUSIVELY the intramural contests in which the lackies compete. They compete here because you stand for truth and in so doing stand in the way of REGRESS, a position for which "they" ALWAYS invariably stand! If you are successful perhaps you should stand and run for state chair? we need to rid ourselves of the nincompoop Thurman. :nuke: her :wtf:
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Cannot Wait To Hear The Results of Da Meeting
re:voter eligibility Pinellas DEC...
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. More Shenanigans and a "phony" election fer chair of fdpitiful...
:puke:
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