TYT: Michael Moore vs. Rush Limbaugh

[ejbr]

Run time: 03:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hdBfp-_ALs   Posted on YouTube: March 07, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: March 07, 2009 By DU Member: ejbr Views on DU: 2593

 
the MSM pundits are comparing apples and oranges...again.:eyes:

[trthnd4jstc]

1. Michael Moore is the Winner!

[ihavenobias]

2. K & R n/t

[iconicgnom]

3. I dunno. On many levels it's the same.

To be sure, Moore and Limbaugh promote opposite ideals. But I think the ideals Moore promotes tend to be those associated with the "Democratic base" in the same way as the ideals Limbaugh promotes associate with the "Republican base".

I like the fact that even while promoting bipartisan dialogue the Obama White House recognizes that this opposition exists.

A question is whether the Dem leadership is as slavish to Moore as the Rep leadership is to Limbaugh. For example, was the Dem leadership slavish to e.g. moveon.org, when moveon.org went over a certain line, or did they finesse it? Even while the Dem leadership knew damn well that they were in a very slim minority and doing so put them in an uncomfortable position w.r.t. "their base".

One thing that can be shown over and over, the Dem leadership is certainly not slavish to "their base".

[bjobotts]

6. Moore is not seen a dem party person as much as an idealistic filmaker with humanitarian values

[bjobotts]

7. Rush is just a greedy loudmouth concerned about his next $40 mil.

[bjobotts]

8. Catering to millionaire wannabes. Republicans are for anyone who protects their wealth

[bjobotts]

9. About as much of a connection as Ghandi and Rush

[creeksneakers2]

16. Didn't Moore campaign for Nader against Gore?

If he's a Democrat he's a disloyal one.

[TheEuclideanOne]

12. I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl again, but they are the same person.

One party's Rush Limbaugh is the other Party's Michael Moore. Michael Moore fights for what we all think is right and what all of the Republicans think is dead wrong. The opposite is true for Rush. Speak with Republican's and you will see exactly what I mean. Ask them about healthcare and you will get an earful.

Sure, everything that Michael Moore has been fighting for is coming to fruition now, but that is only because we have a Democratically controlled government. If, God forbid, McCain Palin would have won, then everything that Rush rants about would be becoming a reality. We would be in a different world, where our Silver bullet would become tax cuts. Not because it is right or wrong, but because it is the Republican party's solution.

[ejbr]

13. TURD!

:evilgrin:

[creeksneakers2]

17. Michael Moore has nothing at all in common with Limbaugh

Limbaugh lies constantly and spreads hatred. If Moore gets something wrong its an error. Moore isn't telling everybody to hate conservatives. Moore is not a leader of public opinion. Most liberals spend about an hour a year listening to Moore. Conservatives spend three hours a day listening to Limbaugh.

[TheEuclideanOne]

20. You raise some good points

Dem View: "Limbaugh lies constantly spreads hatred"
Repug View: "Michael Moore constantly spreads rumors that will destroy the country"

Dem View: "If Moore gets something wrong its an error."
Repug View: "Moore consistantly twists the truth in his movies and outright lies to make his point"

"Moore isn't telling everybody to hate conservatives"
-- Sure he is. If you create movies and demonstrate all of the despicable things that conservatives stand for, is it really that different?

Most liberals spend about an hour a year listening to Moore. Conservatives spend three hours a day listening to Limbaugh.
-- This is based simply on the fact that Limbaugh has a radio show and Moore makes movies. If Moore had a radio show, this may not be true.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[ihavenobias]

21. Is there any objective view?

Has Limbaugh's general ideology been proven to be effective relative to Moore's ideology?

-Is there objective evidence that suggests that massive deregulation and tax cuts for the rich worked?

-Is there objective evidence that suggests that our health care system is in dire need of an overhaul?

I could go on, but you get the idea. Is there bias on both sides? Yes, of course! So while it's easy for either side to dismiss the other entirely while ignoring their own deficiencies, I also think it's quite easy to say "both sides are equally to blame".

That's what I call false equivalence, or the 50/50 argument. Neither side is entirely to blame or entirely blameless so to simplify things let's just call it even and split the difference. But the reality is that life is almost never 50/50. It's rarely 100/0 or 90/0, but 50/50 is equally if not more absurd in some ways. If the goal is to promote more introspection and bipartisan dialogue, I personally don't think the 50/50 argument is the way to get there.

[creeksneakers2]

22. It doesn't equate at all

I can list forever lies Limbaugh tells. I can prove them. For example, last week Limbaugh said there really was no tax cut in the stimulus plan because Obama's tax credit was taxable and all the money would be owed back at the end of the year. Total lie! He lies like that all day and his ambition is to deceive for partisan political purposes. For every alleged lie the conservatives tried to pin on Moore, Moore at least had a source to cite. Limbaugh just makes lies up. Like when he said The New York Times was covering up the fact that Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown was black. Brown is white. So where could Limbaugh have learned about a New York Times cover up? Nowhere, he just made it up.

Yes, Republicans think that way of Moore but that's mostly because they've been deceived on the matter by talk radio liars like Limbaugh. They went over Moore's movie with a microscope and lied. They said Moore said things he never said, then debunked them.

Moore portrays Bush and conservative leaders in a pretty bad light but the conservative rank and file is never portrayed as anything worse that well meaning dupes. I haven't seen all of Moore's movies but I've never seen them say anything like "conservatives can only be happy when they watch other people suffering."
Also, its possible to attack what an ideology stands for without demonizing the people who believe in that ideology. I think nearly all Republicans believe what they beleive in is the best thing for America.

The fact that conservatives listen to Limbaugh hundreds of times as much as liberals listen to Moore isn't just because one has a radio show. There have been many liberal radio shows and they don't get anything like the numbers Limbaugh gets.

Your last line implies that my views are only based on opinion from a biased perspective. I can document lie after lie Limbaugh has told,not opinions I disagree with, outright lies that can be proven false with ojective facts, logic and evidence.

[TheEuclideanOne]

23. Backpeddle.. Backpeddle.... Backpeddle

Although I do feel that it is perspective to a degree, you are very correct in saying that Rush is a liar who will say anything to make his point, truth be damned. There really is no getting around that. If I had a dollar for every time his BS has made me cringe, I would be a wealthy man. So, after thinking about it a bit more, I have decided to start backpeddling. :)

[John Kerry VonErich]

4. My thought

Sounds to me like he said theres nothing to worry about, yet people considers Rush a threat (a minor threat to me), even go as far as to put a billboard up. If you go by what Cenk said and agree, everything Rush will say is laughable and does not matter, period. So brush him off like dandruff and move on to important matters.

[creeksneakers2]

18. Ignore Rush?

That's the failed strategy of overpriced beltway consultants who lost election after election for Democrats. Obama fought back against RW smears and he won.

One thing that must be understood - if something is being talked about by ordinary Americans the media will cover it. If the media thinks facts might offend somebody they won't report them. Limbaugh listeners write in and call in to anything that doesn't agree with Rush. Limbaugh creates and controls buzz in America. Limbaugh had control of the mainstream media from 1992 to 2006.

Here's a partial list of some of the things Rush did:

Trashed Anita Hill so much that Clarence Thomas won confirmation.

Started the right wing hatred of Hillary Clinton with bizarre lies about her like she wanted children to sue their parents and she practiced witchcraft.

Started countless lies about Bill Clinton that saturated the media for his entire presidency. Rush always demanded more information. "What does he have to hide?" Scandal was no longer something that happened when a politician did something wrong. It became scandal when the politician didn't prove he didn't do anything wrong to the satisfaction of people who wished to destroy the politician and had no moral scruples whatsoever.

When Clinton's health care initiative started it was wildly popular and the GOP was hoping to get a compromise at best. Limbaugh alone set out to destroy the package entirely and convinced the rest of Republicans to go along. Eventually, Limbaugh's propaganda prevailed.

Rush ruined the reputation of the Democratic Congress with lies about members signing bad checks and other infractions. Limbaugh made the phones in Congress ring off the hook and his followers pushed the mainstream media into backing the pseudo-scandals. Then, Limbaugh was the drive shaft of Newt Gingrich's effort to con Americans into thinking the GOP would pass term limits and that term limits would solve every problem we've ever had. As a result, Republicans took Congress in 1994. They made Limbaugh and honorary member and gave him complete credit for winning the election.

Limbaugh established that there was money to be made in right wing propaganda. A whole right wing propaganda industry sprung up. So many were brainwashed that they became a large audience segment of the mainstream media. Each new cable talking head show had to have mostly wingnuts on. All of Rush's followers are brainwashed into thinking any statement that doesn't agree with Rush is a liberal media lie designed to destroy America.

Limbaugh provoked such hatred in his followers that they finally pushed liberals so far that liberals had to view everything as a war too. Limbaugh polarized the nation.

Limbaugh continued to intimidate Democrats who disagreed on policy issues. Most were silent. Any Democrat who spoke up got smeared by Limbaugh. The mainstream media joined in. Limbaugh also controlled Republicans the same way.

Limbaugh also used his power to smear and silence all critics of him. Everybody was afraid.

Limbaugh spread lies about Al Gore that contributed to Gore losing in 2000.

Limbaugh quickly sprung after 9/11 into blaming Clinton and portraying Bush as a hero the nation needed to rally around. If 9/11 had happened under Gore, Limbaugh would have blamed Gore for the attack. Gore would have been dragged out of the White House and shot by angry mobs.

Limbaugh trashed any Democrat who spoke up for constitutional rights against the opportunity to make America fascist Limbaugh was taking advantage of. Dissent was silenced.

Limbaugh promoted the Iraq war and convinced the right wing it was a matter of patriotism to support it. Limbaugh spread countless lies about Iraq. All opponents were labeled as un-American, so few opposed.



Obviously, ignoring Rush didn't work. On the other hand, he's an easy target because he lies and spreads hatred all the time. Once Limbaugh is established as the true leader of the GOP, he'll be a gold mine of attackable verbal nuggets. 70% of the public would be shocked if they heard about all the things Limbaugh does. They'd turn against the GOP. If any GOPer wished to disavow Rush, Rush would destroy the GOPer with the base. Its likely following events could lead to a GOP party split.

[Enthusiast]

24. +1, creeksneakers2

Limbaugh has defined 'liberal' for America.

[20score]

5. I've alway liked and respected Michael Moore. It wasn't until the Bush years that a campaign

to demonize him came up and unfortunately worked too well. It's time to go back to sanity now and thank the people who were targeted under bush.

[Turborama]

10. Comparing apples and dog turds, more like

Michael Moore is right much more often than he's wrong (in fact, when has he been wrong?), Limbaugh is ALWAYS in what he says and in the way he behaves.


:kick: & R

[ihavenobias]

15. Exactly.

Not to mention the fact that I for one think that Moore actually cares about average Americans, in addition to wanting to make money of course.

By contrast Limbaugh ONLY cares about making money. That alone is an ENORMOUS difference.

[Seldona]

11. K&R

Agreed there is no comparison.

[pleah]

14. K&R They are not even close to being the same.

:thumbsup:

[OhioChick]

19. K&R

:kick:

[Enthusiast]

25. Perhaps Michael Moore

should have a radio program.