Nader set to offer 'real choice' in presidential race.

[133724]

Ralph Nader, the independent candidate blamed by many Americans for George Bush's election victory in 2000, says he is considering a run for the White House next year - even at the risk of dishing the Democrats again.

...

Mr Nader said he knew he would be accused of acting as spoiler again if he decided to run. But it was essential that the country be offered a real choice in 2008 and it would be the Democrats' own fault if they did not win, he said.

"The two parties are still converging. I really think there needs to be more competition from outside," Mr Nader told the Politico newspaper today. "Democrats have become, over the years, very good at electing very bad Republicans. Democrats always know how to implode, how to waver, how to not be authentic."

Mr Nader sharply criticised Hillary Clinton, the Democrat frontrunner whose failure to back an immediate Iraq withdrawal has alienated many on the left. Her stance has toughened recently.

"She is a political coward," Mr Nader said. "She goes around pandering to powerful interest groups on the one hand and flattering general audiences on the other. She doesn't even have the minimal political fortitude of her husband."
...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/story/0,,2108468,00.html

[Clark2008]

1. Real choice?

:rofl:

[still_one]

2. Nader is "no real choice". He said the same thing about Gore in 2000 /nt

[Warpy]

11. He was right, to a point

in that Gore's campaign was so blandly packaged that Gore came off as a Republic Lite candidate, business as usual, don't worry about those union organizers, free trade without fair trade, health insurance off the table and don't ask me those uncomfortable questions. That he was none of those things was beside the point, most people were allowed to see only the DLC packaging and Nader capitalized on that.

What Nader failed to admit is that the other side were stark, staring batshit crazy.

Well, now we know and I sincerely doubt Nader is going to be able to get away with it again.

[Patsy Stone]

3. Why does he hate Dennis Kucinich?

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

7. Touche'!

:rofl::thumbsup:

[Salviati]

10. He doesn't hate Kuchinich as much as he loves Nader...

I mean if there's anything that would suggest that the universe is truely infinite in scope it's that it would have to be in order to fit Ralph Nader's ego into it...

[Patsy Stone]

18. If only he would use his power for good

instead of evil.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. I don't think he does. It seems to me he said last time around if Dennis was the

nom he would bow out.

But it's just conjecture all the way around.

[Patsy Stone]

24. My point is:

He lauds himself as a "real choice", but he could take that time, effort and money to support Kucinich or Gravel and help move the party to the place he'd like to see it. Instead, he badmouths the Dems (all of them as a group) and calls them names. Why is he so concerned about the future of a party he doesn't belong to? With friends like this, who needs enemies.

It looks to me like he just wants his name in the news, and he doesn't care about anyone but Nader.

[blondeatlast]

25. And he's silent about all of it until near election time.

Six years of corruption, outright lies, government subversion, etc.--and he comes out swinging yet again just as a major election of both president and Congress gears up.

His endorsement for Kucinich or Gravel might make them get some credibility. I still wouldn't vote for either in the primary, but I'd love to see them influence the platform and speak at the convention.

[Patsy Stone]

29. Yep

:thumbsup:

[fujiyama]

40. Nader was more worried about some NBA pay issue

That's Nader for ya. The dude has completely lost it...if he ever had it earlier. From what I've read, he sounds like he's always been an ass hole - and very good at burning many bridges along the way.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

30. he doesn't-he's said he'd back kucinich

both in '04 and '08

[Patsy Stone]

36. Then let him back him now. n/t

[Cha]

50. Because, and this is merely

my personal view, he is a narcisstic gadfly who can't even be bothered to run for Congressman or Senator..no! he wants it all.

Will he be taking repuke run money again?

[AlCzervik]

4. imo i think people who vote for Nader weren't going to vote for a democrat anyway.

can i prove it---no.

[Sapere aude]

6. It doesn't make sense. If that were true then they would not vote at all if Nader didn't run or

they would vote for the repuke. Now they most certainly weren't going to vote for the repuke and I hardly believe there are people out there who would only bother to vote if Nader ran.

[AlCzervik]

9. there are plenty of other candidates on the ballot people can vote for, in Ca.

there must have been at least 5 or 6 different candidates from parties i didn't know about until i got my sample ballot.

[Truth2Tell]

41. Believe it

there are plenty of folks - and I know them - who won't vote for either major party.

I have one good friend who works for pot legalization, reads Chomsky and buys only organic foods - yet he voted for a guy from some right wing Constitutional Freedom Party (or some such wacky thing) in our last Congressional election - rather than vote for a Democrat.

It's not logical, but I can understand it. It's hard to be a Democrat these days. Our elected leaders can try your patience.

I refused to criticize Nader last time around - partly because he's just goddamm right on public policy most of the time.

But it's time give it up. Nader needs to pick some truly progressive Democrats and throw his weight behind them.

No free pass from me this time around. If we end up with Fred Thompson as President and are forced to endure 8 more years of an amalgamation of Chimpie and Raygun and never ending war - well, lets just say Nader better find somewhere safe to hide.

[TransitJohn]

14. I voted for Nader.

I knew my three electoral votes were Bush's*, anyway, being from Wyoming and all. I'm voting Democratic from here on out, a brother can hope for a miracle, I guess, which is what it would take for Wyoming to go Democratic.

[Javaman]

5. Real choice? does that mean he's going to recommend someone else?

:rofl:

[gatorboy]

8. What does 133724 mean, anyway?

[BlooInBloo]

12. (shrug) Nader's only a problem in the presence of an idiot electorate.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. A choice between 2 candidates and a fucking idiot? n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. what a fucking self centered asshole.

[MindPilot]

16. I certainly wouldn't mind having a "real choice".

But Nader sure as hell ain't on the list.

[defendandprotect]

17. Nader has educated us all politically over decades --

If we had IRV, Nader would have been president.

What most of us know about "politics" -- which is the shadow cast over a people's government by corporations -- we know because of Nader's work over three decades and more.

The corporate-MSM know that giving any opportunity to Nader is dangerous for them.
They have a big stake in blocking public financing of campaigns -- they get 80% of the money raised.
Nader will speak of issues that they don't want to cover and certainly don't want the truth of them to be revealed.
Where else will you hear commentary on the issues that Nader rasises? No where.

Hillary isn't taking public funds. She's out selling your government.
They all are --

[fujiyama]

39. "If we have IRV would have been president"

No he wouldn't. IRV or not, he'd never get elected.

Nader is a fucking egomaniac and would likely make a mediocre president as well.

[youthere]

19. Nader is offering America a "REAL" choice?

But...I thought HE was planning on running.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. In This Day And Age, After All We've Witnessed, I Couldn't Even Imagine How Stupid Someone Would

have to be to still vote for him.

Seriously. Think about it. How absolutely ignorant and narrow minded would someone have to be to vote for him THIS time around, after learning the hard lessons of the LAST time around? I guess I'll just have to have faith that this time he won't find anybody quite that stupid.

[annarbor]

27. Nothing but a Narcissist!

Far to much going on in America this time around for anyone to seriously consider wasting a vote on this idiot!

Ann Arbor

[stray cat]

22. Not again - what we need is a far right choice

[Johonny]

23. real choice

Haven't the American people choosen not to elect him twice. Anyways by his own standards, Nader must be a good Dem cause he sure helped elect Bush...

[Tyo]

26. So what does Nader do during the years between presidential campaigns?

Work tirelessly to develop his base? Tour the country networking with voters and potential financial supporters spreading his message, developing his ideas, getting input at the grassroots level and generally behaving like someone who is trying to create a viable third way? Run for the House or the Senate maybe? Or does he drop out of sight until it's time to engage in another bogus ego-driven hopeless run for a job he is in no way qualified for?

[Tesha]

28. Perhaps he does; do you think the media would let you hear about it? (NT)

[Tyo]

38. Who gets their news from "the media" anymore?

We'd hear about it. If Nader were actually doing anything during the off years that was at all meaningful in the way of creating a viable third party it would be all over sites like this for starters.

[Tesha]

42. Most Americans; that's why they're dumb as a box of rocks. (NT)

[Tyo]

46. Okay, well I guess you do have a point. Unfortunately.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

31. he's been involved in a ton of causes-the media doesn't cover it

and dems shun him at their loss

[PVnRT]

34. No, it's their gain

n/t

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

37. yeah, giving up on civic action and caving to corporations is a good thing

nothing excites your base like being a complete sell-out

[Tesha]

43. It's always sadly amusing...

It's always sadly amusing watching people here frothing
at the mouth about what a bad person Ralph Nader is and
how he's so badly wronged the Democratic party when, in
fact, all that would need to happen to make the "Nader
problem" go away entirely would be for the Democrats to
re-adopt some of the people-valuing stances that they
once held.

But the Democratic party is now so firmly, deeply
latched onto the teat of corporate money that they
apparently can't hear the people anymore, no matter
how loudly we shout about issues that really matter.
So whenever they finally do come up for air, they
piss and moan about Ralph Nader and how he done
them wrong.

It's really sad: much like the kid who screams that
his hand is trapped in the cookie jar, all the Democrats
would need to do is let go of the corporate cookies.
Think they'll do it?

Tesha

[Radical Activist]

48. He does a lot of work

but its focused on his non-profit and issue advocacy groups. You're right that Nader never did the Green party any favors by doing anything resembling party building activities. Of course, pretty much the entire green party as a whole spends more time doing issue work instead of party building like they should be. That's a major reason why it isn't a viable third party.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

32. if hillary is nominated, i'm with ralph all the way

without a moment's hesitation

having the carville crew destroy the revitalized democratic party would, in the long run, be worse than a gop win

[Nikki Stone1]

33. Dancing with the Stars.

He'd look good in heels.

[Mark E. Smith]

35. Ralph the GOP Enabler

I suspect his reason for running (again) is that he looks forward to getting those fat GOP checks again.

Apparently this is what this shell of a man does for a living.

[Tesha]

44. I thought the real GOP-enablers were the DLCers, the "gang of 14", etc.

They seem to be the ones who actually *CAST VOTES IN
CONGRESS* for GOP positions; I'm unaware of Ralph
Nader having done so or supported anyone who has
done so.

Tesha

[Mark E. Smith]

49. Yeah, you probably did think just that.

Probably made all the little toys in your attic rattle something awful.

[Tesha]

51. Ahh, the ever popular "argumentation by insult" tactic.

> Probably made all the little toys in your attic rattle something awful.

Ahh, the ever popular "argumentation by insult" tactic.
You know, it's funny but the people around here who
seem to resort to that tactic the most often are the
DLCers. In the real world, of course, it's the Republicans.

I wonder if there's any conclusion we can draw from that?

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

45. Is offering real choice like offering sandpaper instead of Charmin?

[Radical Activist]

47. I don't think he matters if we nominate a progressive Democrat.

He was irrelevant in '04.