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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 09:37 AM
Original message
The Gupta Effect
So the Mainstream Media, wearing the face of Sanjay Gupta, were out telling lies and pushing the corporate propaganda line. That in itself is no big deal; happens all the time, right? As Michael Moore pointed out in his admirable rant to Wolf Blitzer, that's how we got misled into a stupid war--and, for that matter, it's how enough people got conned into voting for Bush to give him a marginally credible claim to have won the election. Twice.


In the old days, the media lied to us too, but they did it much more subtly, more often by simple omission than by outright fabrication. And finally, if things went too far, there was always an Edward R. Murrow or a Walter Cronkite to draw the line in the sand, and the public came to more clearly perceive the egregious wrongs of Joe McCarthy or of the Vietnam War. In effect, the media stayed honest enough to maintain public trust.

Since about the mid-90's, though, there has been a huge rapidly evolving change in the rules of the game. The manipulators of public opinion caught on that in the media world, Image is Everything. Thus they built the Whitewater story out of nothing, and sifted through everything imaginable until they came up with the Lewinsky affair, out of which they built an impeachment. Over time, the lies and manipulations have become more blatant. The Dean Scream--a total fabrication that involved trickery to totally distort reality. The Swiftboat attacks. I have come to see that one in a new light. I don't think there's anything Kerry could have done to head off that disaster. No matter what he said, the swiftboat ad was going to be run and re-run a million times for free, as a supposed news story. The attack is the big story, the rebuttal is boooooring, so it doesn't get heard.

The thing is, though. that the "Image is Everything" principle has its limitations. It is, in fact, a short-term tactic. It only works because the press has spent a couple of hundred years building up some degree of public trust. In the past, they took some care to maintain at least an illusion of credibility. They stayed moderately close to the truth. Oh, they might have played along with the Kennedy "Missile Gap" nonsense, and they certainly didn't look into J. Edgar Hoover's closet, and they fed us the government-approved line 'way too many times, but there was usually some substance underlying the stories they gave us. They at least had the good taste not to lie to us about things that they could easily be caught out on.

Every time the media tell a Big Lie, they expend a bit of precious capital, measured in the coin of credibility. Every time they do it, another bloc of viewers catch on to their lying ways, and stop believing them. And maybe go on to find more reliable sources of information, which pretty much means the Internet. Or a Michael Moore movie. Or some other outlet that is beyond the ultimate control of the corporations. It's all very reminiscent of the Bad Old Days in the Soviet Union when people read Pravda and Trud with a totally cynical eye and developed highly refined abilities to discern the real story from the omissions and fabrications in the official propaganda.

I think, in short, that the Corporate Media we all deplore will turn out to be a self-limiting problem as people simply stop believing the bullshit. That, my friends, is the Gupta Effect.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Brilliantly stated!
K & R!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Most kind of you, Nance.
Thank you.

And let me take the opportunity to mention how happy I am to see your pieces showing up here regularly again.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R!
The media began to tell the truth during the 60's and 70's. The powers that be could not stand for that so they bought up the media.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R Great work and, by the way, Great to see Nance again.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. the problem is -- the People might stop believeing in the media --
but do they replace with it anything more factual?

we didn't get thirty million nut bag evangelicals for no reason at all.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. good points all. When it becomes impossible to
believe in the corporate media, when every aspect of living becomes a morass of uncertainty, when you can't figure out your phone bill or it takes a herculean effort to determine the veracity of anything, the only thing left is some kind of blind faith--perhaps that is the ultimate goal.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Some will find good sources, some won't.
The net result is bound to be an improvement over the present.

By and large, I expect that, when woken up to the need, people who are capable of discernment will tend to find good sources, and those who lack those capacities will either remain unaware of the lies or find bad replacements. In fact, most people are capable of finding good information when they need to.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. discernment is a learned thing -- one isn't born
with discernment.

the mass disillusionment and disaffection with reality that this country has faced since reagan has happened for concrete reasons.

the current up-tick we might feel because some dems are in power now -- simply masks what has been the problem all along.

ignorance -- and much of it willfull and malicious.



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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I see the "disaffection with reality" as a symptom of
perceived powerlessness. If you are in charge of your destiny, you'd best be aware of what's going on so you can make wise choices. On the other hand, if you're at the mercy of forces beyond your control, there's no point in being aware of looming dangers. If you have no way of escaping what distresses you, there's no point in even being aware of the problem.

Thus, distribution of "Power to the People" must be accompanied by the granting of "Perception to the People."
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. one has limited and imperfect control of one's ''destiny''.
it's the reason why people live together -- to work in concert in order to improve one's chances.

and hopefully to better face reality and change -- because change in constant -- with more information -- information coming from different quarters.

however -- we've fallen into times when people fear modernity, are victims of institutional incompetence, greed and indifference -- and in the political realm of this discussion -- some of that is by design.

so we have whole, enormous swaths of people who only want information that fits their group's world view.

we fail our children with inadequate and unsophisticated education for fear of offending these fearful herds.

and we have not even begun to turn these tides back.

it really does boil down to a problem of the spirit -- in this case -- for the purposes of DU -- it's the american ''spirit'' that is sick.


it's one thing to pull yourself up by your boot straps if you are wiser and more worldly for the effort.

it's another -- if you remain the same after as before.



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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't know....
there's an awful lot of people who still believe what they see and hear on these "news" channels. It's their only link to what they THINK is the "news" and they're too damned lazy or don't have access to a way search for the truth. I know a lot of people like this myself who THINK they're "well informed" but are nothing more than receptacles for the corporate media propaganda.

No big change is going to happen overnight. In fact it may take decades before they pull their heads from their asses and see the daylight. I wish I could be as optimistic as you about the near future but experience has taught me otherwise. :shrug:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. I fully agree that the process may be slow and incremental.
I'm just pointing out that there IS a process in motion. It took the Russians a long time to sort out how to read Pravda, too.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. What they do with their "fair and balanced" hit jobs on the truth
Edited on Wed Jul-11-07 03:53 PM by Strawman
is make people cynical about government and politics and anything "public." People throw up their hands, throw in the towel and allow everything to be privatized.
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firefox_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wait, isn't Gupta one of those "Terrorist MDs"? Just checking...
Just a few days ago there was all this bashing about dark skinned doctors...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Becoming a Republican makes you an honorary Caucasian.
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firefox_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Ahahah! Probably true!
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent, and the trend is already in swing...how sad that the Repugs
stole NPR for propaganda purposes. Having a fair and balanced approach when one has to listen to propaganda vs. facts isn't elevating the dialog.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Maybe Air America should be renamed
"Voice of America"

beamed behind the Dollar Curtain to bring the truth to the oppressed peoples...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Works for me.
Radio Free Gupta.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Wonderful Observation
I feel the same way but could of never put it so eloquently as you did in this post.

:yourock:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thank you.
The issue of trust is a very interesting one. I don't know that there have been very many significant studies on the giving and withholding of trust, at least among nominally rational people. Leon Festinger's old When Prophecy Fails comes to mind, but it was a study of a flying saucer cult, and therefore (one hopes) of somewhat limited generalizability.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. To quote Abraham Lincoln
You can lie to some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't lie to all of the people all of the time.

Corporations don't need to lie to all of the people all of the time. They can base their profit margins on the predictibility of those who can be lied to all of the time. And as time goes by social forces will ever increase that number.

Think of Plato's allegory of the cave. If people are kept shackled in a system and forced to view a particular representation of the world then that becomes their view of the world. Release them into the real world and they still see the shadows as reality. We come to believe the world we are shown. Not everyone digs beneath the surface to find out what is going on. Although Socrates may have lamented that the unexamined life is not worth living, just try to take that unexamined life away from someone. They will fight you tooth and nail.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I think the antidote is to infect people with a sense of personal efficacy.
If you believe that your own actions and choices matter, then it is important for you to get accurate information. And you will take steps to do so. If you think, on the other hand, that you are ineffectual, then you are more inclined to take the easy way out, accepting as truth whatever is put in front of you because (you implicitly assume) it doesn't matter anyway.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. They don't get it. They're as off on this one
as they were on the violent backlash against the immigration bill.
Americans are waking up to the realization that our healthcare industry has been gouging us for decades. I don't think the scare tactics resonate anymore. The "you'll have to wait in line for 3 yrs." junk rhetoric. There isn't a person out here who doesn't have a first-hand experience with a medical emergency and the huge bill that followed. If it hasn't happened to you, it's happened to someone in your family or your best friend.
Corporate media was able to stop Hillary in her tracks.
But that was 14 yrs. ago.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. "They" may not get it.
You do.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm not getting the payola
from the HMOs and the pharmaceutical industry, either.
The Dems must get this issue into the American consciousness during this next election cycle.
Just today a co-worker was talking about how he's shelling out $4000 for dental work. It's insane. Middle-class working people are foregoing needed medical care in order to pay for groceries and gasoline.
Here in this wealthy country people are going without basic care because they just can't afford the thousands of dollars our byzantine system requires.
It's total madness.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
27. Self-limiting...that's a real insight.
Now that it's lost most of its credibility, more and more the MSM is being replaced by the internet.

This explains why the government wants to give the Internet to the big Telcos to manage. We're getting smarter. It can't use TV and radio to control us any more. It must put the clamp down on the people.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'll take one quible with your rant
bush didn't win EITHER election

They stole both of them, and they are getting ready to do it again....

A glorious caging lists...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I know he didn't. All I said was that he got close enough to establish
Edited on Thu Jul-12-07 12:49 PM by Jackpine Radical
"a marginally credible claim" to having won.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
29. Nail. Head. Lying by omission.
I think you've come up with the most succinct version of the mid-20th century media that I've heard recently. We got the elite version of reality most of the time, mainly because non-elite versions never made it through. However, we could always reasonably expect that what did make it through was actually fact-checked.
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