Bill Moyers on Impeachment, playing devil's advocate, was brilliant!

[babylonsister]

I have even more respect for John Nichols: Bruce Fein was most excellent and full of facts. And my sincere hope is that those on DU and elsewhere who think impeachment is a dumb idea, please rethink that!

[ClassWarrior]

1. Taped it for later viewing... K&R

:hi: Sis...

NGU.

[babylonsister]

9. Good deal! Well worth it!

:thumbsup: :hi:

[mzmolly]

21. It's excellent.

:hi:

[phildo]

2. First road block to turn to road kill is your own Democrat Leadership -- Nancy Pelosi

Y'all are going to have to give her the Lead or Get Out of the Way treatment.

[bdamomma]

4. are they more concerned with their own party than the country.

and it's people.

[babylonsister]

8. Nichols flat out said Pelosi was wrong about impeachment. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

27. And offered the statesmenship on how to approach her for changing

her mind. :think:

Lesson I took from that was it must be challenging, but the constitution is bigger than any one component of the govt.

[babylonsister]

31. Well, me being a

dweeb, I was around for that and wrote this down:

Pelosi needs to learn statesmanship and recognize lack of transparency from this gov't/admin, which is ongoing.
My last note is, we have a lack of Democrats with vision or a depth of philosophy, and their knowledge of history is lacking. We could all learn from history, but not many do, do they?

[ClassWarrior]

10. (pssssst...)

(don't feed the trolls...)

NGU.

[John Q. Citizen]

36. My guess is that Nancy will rehab herself soon on impeachment. The dam is

starting to overflow and is quickly reaching the breaking point.

Between her own constituents, the people around the country, and the legislators jumping ship, it seems inevitable.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

3. He was great and so were his guests...

...they rightly insinuated that Congress has the ball now and must act if we're to save this badly shaken republic.

We'll see.

[HuskiesHowls]

5. It was a good thing he did coming out of retirement!!! n/t

[Cleita]

6. Transcript up already.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

12. Thanks for the link! The transcript should have its own thread. eom

[Cleita]

15. I put up a thread but it sank after I was chastised because there

were already two other threads on the subject so :shrug: damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[truedelphi]

33. Not a good feeling that ol

DIYDDIYD

But glad you persevered to post it here.

[babylonsister]

7. HEre's some stuff I jotted down-great program! We need to send out

the you tubes or however that will work to everyone who might view it!


Impeachment would define future presidencies; no one would be able to get away with what this admin has. Any authority to go outside the rule of law is wrong and needs to be corrected.

Leaders consider us, the citizens, children. High crimes and misdemeanors are happening; we need to be paying attention.

Politicians don't seem to know how to handle this moment in time -presidency has no regard for checks and balances, pointed out numerous times.
This admin has inflated danger; we need an agressive Congress, not invertebrates. This admin has exhibited a pattern of behavior that doesn't respect the rule of law.

We need people who cherish their country more than their party; we need a hero to point that out, someone with courage and conviction.

Impeachment is a cure for a constitutional crisis!

Dems seem to know this admin is screwing up, but are waiting to see what they do next instead of changing the conversation. They need to constrain the presidency, not the president. (reframe that sucker!)

Nixon never had to repent; in order for the blivet to be forgiven, he has to see the error of his ways and apologize (Fein said that, and I don't agree, but I imagine he thinks it would never happen)

Finally, Moyers harkened back to when PBS first got started, as a result of Watergate. People were paying attention then, and he wishes a station such as PBS would air every Congressional hearing.

The show rocked!

[ananda]

11. It was fantastic. One point about the press..

.. was that the founding fathers always assumed that the press would do its job properly.

That they were wrong, that the press is doing such a miserable job these days, just
exacerbates the problem of a renegade, monarchical presidency that does not operate
within the rule of law or any sense of containment, completely ignoring the separation
of powers.

This is a constitutional crisis, and as Nichols put it, the only cure is impeachment NOW.

If we leave it, and nothing happens, the next president will be no better, no matter who
it is.

Sue

[babylonsister]

13. Awesome! I was in and out, so didn't get to hear the whole thing, but

we know how lame the media has been. Hopefully some of them might find their spines, too!

[tblue37]

14. The Founding Fathers also assumed "the press" would be a citizen

voice. Well, "the press" as the Founding Fathers envisioned it is doing a greatjob--only it is the alternative press (especially the internet) that wears the mantle of the free press, not the organs of the so-called MSM, which are actually just the propaganda arms of the corporations that own them.

[truedelphi]

34. Actually the corporate press does a most perfect job for its corporate masters

[Poiuyt]

23. Thanks. I wished I had taken notes during the show.

I didn't want to get up to get paper and pencil because I didn't want to miss anything!

[TheCentepedeShoes]

37. I didn't want to have to get up to pee. n/t

[proud patriot]

16. Can't wait

Airs on the west coast later

[Swamp Rat]

17. I can't wait to see it!

[mzmolly]

18. I watched, it was excellent. But, they didn't really talk about the war

in relation to impeachment. I was hoping to see them address how impeachment would impact the Iraq fiasco, namely getting out. Not that we have to "lump" them together, but I am personally concerned. Also, there really wasn't a true dissenting opinion.

That said, I loved the program it was very insightful.

I thought it was interesting that they said we must impeach both Bush and Cheney as they are equally responsible for the "abuse of power."

As I've said - "it's not a matter of if, but when." And that when thing, appears to be moving closer?

[babylonsister]

19. They did address how Cheney is solely responsible for this war,

despite our figure/puppethead, and how undoubtedly he's been making all the decisions.

[mzmolly]

20. They did talk about how Bush and Cheney had different views upon entering office

and how Cheney's won out apparently. But they stated that both men were in agreement when it came to the abuse of power, and as such both should be sanctioned via impeachment. I keep thinking of the "I'm the decider" remark LOL.

I have changed my thinking a bit after watching the program.

I said recently that impeachment would not result in anything "tangible" at this time, however after watching I feel the act itself is "tangible" and necessary regardless of outcome. I also said that impeachment was contrary to ending the war. In a way I still feel this way because it may disrupt the already lazy media coverage of the war, but I don't think it's fair to assume that it's counter productive. In fact, it may embolden the nation to come out full swing against future funding? I remain concerned on this, but wanted to expand on my previous assertion.

As you can see, I'm still evolving on this issue. ;)

What about you, any minor change of opinion after seeing the program? For example, would you be OK if impeachment led to an apology alone?

[babylonsister]

28. No change of opinion here; I've thought impeachment has been

necessary for a long time, when I realized how they were stealing, in so many ways, from the US and us citizens.
This show just proved my point, but NO, I don't agree with Fein on apologies. Check this out!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1330954&mesg_id=1331305

[mzmolly]

30. I've always thought impeachment important as well. I just didn't think we were "elected"

for that particular reason and I tired of hearing that talking point. It's one thing to say "Democrats took an oath to uphold the constitution..." it's another to say "Democrats were elected to impeach."

I also did not, and do not think impeachment comes before the goal ending the war. And I am puzzled that the faces of the antiwar movement appear to have switched horses mid race? Some suggest that impeachment will end the war, but I haven't had anyone fully explain how?

Also, I, like Gore, did not feel that we had the time. However, I have come to believe it's our duty regardless.

I am still trying to reconcile how we end the war and impeach simultaneously. Sure WE can walk and chew gum at the same time, but can the media? Will the public? We need both to accomplish either goal.

I'm still deliberating, once again.

[Poiuyt]

22. I was just thinking about the devil's advocate position Moyers was taking

A great interviewer. Ask tough questions and then let the facts speak for themselves.

[MrMickeysMom]

24. I'm so glad Moyers returned to PBS.... this is his approach to interviews n/t

[Wiley50]

25. K and R

[Individualist]

26. K&R

[wildbilln864]

29. Amen to that! n/t

[emmadoggy]

32. I caught the show totally by accident and unfortunately, missed the first 20 minutes or so...

But THIS SHOW ROCKED!!!! Nichols and Fein absolutely NAILED it!! This was one of the best (if not THE best) things I've seen on tv in ages. I said in another thread, I SOOOOOO wish that there was a way to make EVERY citizen of this country watch it - and even MORE importantly, EVERYONE IN CONGRESS!!

I only found one thing I disagreed with and that was when Fein said that if Bush/Cheney came out and said, "oh, ok, we get it now, we've been bad. We're sorry, won't happen again" that then we should accept that and just move on. I vehemently disagree with that. First off, they would never come out and say that. And secondly, NO, an apology and promise to not do it anymore is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. They have commited crimes - heinous crimes - and need to suffer the consequences.

But other than that, I was loving every minute of it. Please, everyone who didn't see the show - WATCH IT. It is a MUST SEE.

[rasputin1952]

35. It was a brilliant segement...Moyers did an excellent job of drawing out

these two men, and they were both concise and exceptionally knowledgeable in what the process is, how it it can be brought to fruition and what the ramifications are.

I was particularly impressed w/how they posed the current administration as attempting to establish a "monarch style presidency". One of the best Moyers shows of all time.

I recommend everyone read the transcript of watch the replay...it is brilliant.

on edit: There may be a real possibility of getting enough votes to convict, especially cheney, if that is the case, I am all for impeachment and trial. The whole thing must result in removal from office...no political show like the R's did to Clinton. The only good that came from that is that even the R's came down hard on DeLay and got him out of the Hose...:D

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. That was the BEST show I have seen in YEARS. I so hope every member of Congress was watching it!

If that doesn't make them put Impeachment on the table, nothing will.:(

[wiggs]

39. Good question: For anyone who watched, did the program change your

mind on impeachment, one way or another?

Second question: If not, did you watch and remain convinced that impeachment is NOT the appropriate course to take?

Feel free to watch at http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html before answering....