I talked to my father who worked for the Joint Chiefs during Vietnam War

[IChing]

It was my birthday so he gave me a call tonight. He said that if we had a draft
there would be no war, he said we need to get out of this phony war, he even
thought the Vietnam War was a phony war and he worked for it. He has the distinguish flying cross
and silver star from WWII among others.

He worked for Plans and Policy for the US air-force also for his Nuclear understanding.
We talked about those times in which he took us to the Pentagon gym which is 3 levels below
ground floor which has racket ball, olympic size swimming polls, tennis courts etc.
We even talked about when I was 12 that my older brother got kicked off of the locker room
bench by McNamara

Later as my friends that graduated and died in Vietnam and I started to fight against the war.

He called me a nigger and practically threaten to disowned me during those times but my mother supported me
when I started to protest against the war. He called me Un-American but at the same time
my mother and him gave me a good education that didn't cost
an arm and a leg.....

And we talked about that tonight and my niece's education, who just got accepted
going to the University of Texas Law School at Austin, will cost as a resident
$40-50 thousand a year and it cost my brother her father 1/10 that cost...

I said something is wrong when the rich are now the only ones that can afford education
and it puts the middle and lower class people in debt for the rest of their lives.

He is 92, voted republican, a survivor from the Oklahoma depression.
But......................

HE AGREED BUSH AND CHENEY NEED TO BE IMPEACHED.



I think there is a lot of Cognitive dissonance going on in the States.


Birthday rant.....but it made my day.

[AndyTiedye]

1. He Is Wrong About the Draft Though

He should know better. The Vietnam war went on for years with a draft.

If we had a draft now, Bush** would already have invaded Iran and Syria.

[IChing]

10. No he said that the American public have no interest in the War

It doesn't affect them, he realized that the protest came from
those that were affected.

He is an either or type guy

His book on his life is title

"No have measures"

and that includes his drink.

[AndyTiedye]

21. So Because There Was No Draft, There Were No Protests Against the Iraq War? What Does He Call This?

Even during Vietnam, most submitted to the draft without protest. The same would be true today.

The reason the Vietnam War protests were noticed more is because they got heavy media coverage, while current protests do not.

[IChing]

25. Don't disagree and that is a great photo

the War affected the population because of the draft
which caused real disagreement and discussion within families.
He said without that it will continue.

We have seen here on DU even today a person whose son joined the military
because of economic necessities and lack of opportunities either educational
or economic. That was not the case then, it was go to war, canada or jail.

I have discussed many times of the media role in this war at DU
Now a days we get a local soldier that died in our paper and
they won't put his casket coming home from an airplane from Iraq.

That wasn't the point of my post anyway.

[madokie]

44. wrong person, sorry

[NanceGreggs]

2. Great story, and thanks for sharing it ...

... and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

:toast:

[IChing]

20. Thank you my favorite writer

on DU... I just needed to share on a day that I was bummed out.
Which turned into something that gave me and others hope

I like the title of my Dad's book even though it is 'extreme"

No half measures.

[MetaTrope]

3. How does he think the military rank-and-file will react if there is another "terrorist" attack here?

And Bush declares martial law with himself as supreme ruler, with Congress either disabled or dissolved? Would they back him up unquestioningly?

[IChing]

13. I think at his age and life style

his memory is stuck in a time zone and he is enjoying his health and life right now
although, I have been disenfranchised from his since he remarried after my mother died.

Listen he is very conservative, two time AAU national champion wrestler.
I don't take it that far on conversations with him.


Me? I am Mr. Loonie Left, radical, childish poster.

[Mojorabbit]

4. Happy Birthday

My father was a loyal republican his whole life till the last election when he voted for Kerry who he did not like but he was afraid of what Bush was doing. He died in Jan at age 77. He told me a few weeks before he died that Bush needed to be impeached. I email and call and write members of congress asking for that in his honor.

[Captain Angry]

5. Nice.

My dad worked for the Joint Chiefs in the 80's for a bit.

He's coming over to my way of looking at things. I'll point something out, he won't believe it, and I'll drown him with sources.

He still questions things that I bring up, as he should, but he no longer dismisses anything out of hand.

He still thinks Clinton should BBQ for eternity in hell, but he's listening as I point out each power grab, each firing, each inconsistency.

Happy Birthday. :-)

[IChing]

17. Yeah he doesn't like Clinton he married an oil bitch

that owns Sun Oil...they hate the Clintons and he had Bill o"really as his favorite TV show.

I get nothing from that family now, when I was married to my marxist danish wife
he liked her the best out of all the wives
for she gave him a run for the money on our intellectual drunken arguments.

I have to agree with him now........I don't like the Clintons but only because
of information I know now.

[Captain Angry]

19. My dad's a little further ahead.

He won't watch (or at least admit to watching) Fox News.

I wasn't a fan of Bill Clinton. I really dislike Hillary. I don't believe anything she says, and the massive money behind her (including Murdoch's) really makes me uncomfortable.

I was at a Bill Clinton speech a ways back, where he flew in to town at great expense. He lauded the people in our town that did some very special Gov't work. And then he got on his plane, flew out, and signed pay freezes for the people he just complimented literally 30 minutes ago.

(I make the remark about great expense because they had to reroute to pick up other state dignitaries instead of them just meeting him there. This of course kept half the town waiting for hours beyond the scheduled time.)

[IChing]

22. In the Presidential debate dialogues tonight

I saw nothing on the Military Industrial Complex.

I have discussed this before with him when I taught
that one plane would pay me a decent wage for years.

[Captain Angry]

23. My dad flew B-52s, so the bakesale stuff is lost on him.

Military spending is normal, and will never be questioned. If anybody says "Do we really need to have a cost plus contract on this?", they'll be voted out of office for being a pussy.

So that is one topic that just won't come up in my discussions with dad.

I have to point at waste and neglect in other departments, and make connections. I completely agree that we need to completely reevaluate what we spend our money on as a nation. How we can afford to blow the shit out of anybody anywhere, but can't afford to keep homeless people out of the elements and safe as they try to get back on their feet is beyond me.

And don't get me started on Katrina. My demeanor with dad changed on that day. We've always had polite disagreements and discussions. But of all the things that Bush and his people have ruined, Katrina pissed me off. It broke something inside of me. And I live thousands of miles from the gulf coast. I don't think I will ever feel proud of the USA again after the way that the people there were left for dead, and continue to be abandoned.

Back to your point. No candidate will ever talk about the military industrial complex. I actually did get that discussion going the other day, and he is convinced that if a Democrat gets in there that they'll cut the military immediately. He thinks they'll be too afraid to raise taxes, so they'll cut. I agree, but not that they'll cut the military. They will find money elsewhere that they can dissolve to avoid pissing off the complex.

[IChing]

27. Military Defense is now here to protect the international corporate structure

Even my dad realized that back then who said at that time it was for that
in Vietnam.

The question of Defense of this nation has been changed to the equation

"the best defense is a good offense"--------it is a misnomer, a falsehood.

Studying Marital arts, the constitution and 1984 I think that is crap reasoning.
Unless you are instigating a empire building mentality.

These do not build democratic consensus and lead to failures
as witnessed by Athens and Rome. China in its Wall of Protection it built
was able to sustain itself after its expansion for centuries.

In the final analysis, it is the illusion that americans see as 'independence'
once the wall of America is circumvented by hypocrisy
which is really marketed by an extraneous controlled entity
that enables them to continue
this processed consumption
of ambivalence of its so called citizens
then no body will wake up.

My father said in the 60s people are sheep.

[Captain Angry]

47. That's something that my dad can't hear.

I think he knows it in his heart, but he won't admit that the job he did for 20 years, the job the WWII vets did has been perverted into taking and guarding somebody else's infrastructure.

[Fridays Child]

6. These are the stories that tell me we're reachng the tipping point.

And Congress will continue to ignore us at their peril.

Happy birthday, IChing. :hi:

[EFerrari]

7. Thank you for giving us a present on your birthday.

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Happy birthday and good to hear

[BuyingThyme]

9. Happy Birthday!

:hi:

[babylonsister]

11. Happy, happy birthday, and that is the best gift!

Your dad deals in reality, to this day. Lovely, and hope you had a good day.

[saltpoint]

12. I second sfexpat's sentiment and analysis.

All the best, IChing.

[FourScore]

14. Great story!

(Really? You're bro got kicked off a bench by McNamara?)

I agree with your father about the draft. I hate to say it, but I think he's right.

Again, Happy Birthday, IChing!:toast:

[jeff30997]

15. "Pentagon gym which is 3 levels below ground floor which has racket ball..."

It made me smile to see Pentagon and racket in the same sentence.:)

[IChing]

18. He had been down to I think

7 floors below that which are top, top, secret.

Probably where Rummy was when the "plane" hit.

Strange, a plane hits a gas station in Brazil and they can still find bodies and seats.

[Captain Angry]

24. It's a different kind of fire in Brazil.

In the United States, our humidity and latitude burn things differently.

For instance, planes in the USA can sometimes apparently vaporize, but leave intact passports on top of rubble.

Grr.

[emlev]

16. Now I'm having a happy yourbirthday!

Thanks for celebrating with us.

[blogslut]

26. I threw the coins for you

Your Hexagrams are 49 moving to 30. Your Moving lines are 5 and six. I'll let you do your own interpretations. Happy birthday!

[IChing]

28. thanks.

[IChing]

31. Ok that hit on the toss.....did you really toss that? "the well"

In 49 there is a focus on revelation, showing what is 'behind' the mask,
unmasking - and so the focus on revolution etc.

THE JUDGMENT


REVOLUTION. On your own day
You are believed.
Supreme success,
Furthering through perseverance.
Remorse disappears.


I don't like casting for myself, thanks for the cast
hope it fits for all DU

I Ching - Hexagram 49

No revolution in outer things is possible without prior revolution in one's inner way of being. Whatever change you aspire to in your affairs must be preceded by a change in heart, an active deepening and strengthening of your resolve to meet every event with equanimity, detachment, and innocent goodwill. When this spiritual poise is achieved within, magnificent things are possible without.

[blogslut]

32. yes

That's what I threw.

[IChing]

35. Revolution is needed now

In the way we think of this planet's plight
In the way we see nature's flight
to survive on empty pieces of melting shelves.

Revolution is needed now
On how we manage our own personal consumption

Revolution is needed on how we view our freedom,
history ,democracy and government.

I think that this same old, same old shit
type of political and economic thinking is not finding
the solutions for the problems this planet and nation faces.

Sometimes I think we are drifting back into the Matrix
of corporate acceptance with this fucking election.

Revolution is needed now

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Many happy returns of the day, IChing!

[Missy Vixen]

30. Happy Birthday, IChing

Here's to your dad remaining in good health. I hope you have him and his wise counsel for many, many more years.

:toast:
Julie

[me b zola]

33. First things first...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :toast:


I agree with your Dad about the draft, but I don't think that we will see one. I really believe that if there were an "attack" on the US that because the military is so broken down that we would openly use mercenaries/private armies.

As I watch how the MIC manipulates the media now, I don't have any doubt that all of the cable talking heads and network news shows would sell this idea to the US public in no time. The public would eat it up because they would just be relieved that their sons & daughters wouldn't be called upon to fight and die.


I'm glad to hear that your Dad wants impeachment. FWIW, my rw MIL and other rw in-laws also want the cabal to be impeached. I think that the leadership is seriously misreading the mood of the country, their failure to hold */cheney accountable could really backfire on them.


Thanks for sharing your stories, and once again...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[IChing]

36. thanks.

I also told him about the GI bill and social security and why it helped this nation
and why my brother has to continue to work to give his grand daughter an education


$40 thousand a year? She speaks 3 languages and was a 3.8 gpa student.
My brother who has worked now can't retire and he is 62? He has a law degree.

I said that is wiping out the middle class on purpose.

[IChing]

37. My father makes $65 thousand a year retired

as a colonel, he makes 4 times more money than when he retired.

He spends none of that because he married a millionaire.

[InkAddict]

45. Happy B-Day, IChing!

My spouse was a public servant in what is now one of the poorest cities in the nation when he was drafted into the VietNam conflict. He spent his service, sometimes now remembered with something of a survivor guilt mentality, where the military assigned him, Headquarters Company, Ft. Meade, at the Pentagon. One lonely night advancing footsteps behind him in a deserted hallway made him stop to yield to whoever was smartly gaining from the rear. Eyes trained at shoulder level he saw stars as
Gen. Westmoreland strode by to his snapped salute. There are other stories about life in DC in those years...the inauguration of the crook, the fires on the Mall, opening the basement to shelter just about anyone from the city who sought relief from the oppressive heat...!

:party: Enjoy your day!

[Pastiche423]

34. Your post gave me hope

something we all need desparately.

HAPPY
BIRTHDAY
:bounce: :party: :bounce:

[IChing]

38. Thanks it made me think.......We need a revolution

for the system is not in balanced and can not be change
by slow processes of normal power agreements between
the ruling elite and the populace, let alone the middle class.

That shit is long gone, in my book, the middle class unless they wake up
are being used to attack the poor to protect the elite and then destroying
themselves in the process of hiding behind religion and destruction of
their children's education through the "home school" mentality.

Cognitive Dissonance is massive in this nation.

[shance]

39. My fear is they are using our military in order to diminish them and make us all more vulnerable.

Apparently I'm not alone in this assumption.

[IChing]

40. The military soldier is used as a non-touchable entity.

Which allow one to talk about the Military Industrial contracts
that really kill them.

Where was Bill on : (but he finds it necessary to speak out on this)
Posted by IChing in Latest Breaking News
Sat Jul 15th 2006, 08:44 AM
Kerry-Feingold Amendment? WHICH HE SHOT DOWN
Downing Street memo?
The NSA's wiretaps? WHERE WAS PRESIDENT CLINTON ON THIS???????

1) Seizing power to wage wars of aggression in defiance of the U.S. Constitution, the U.N. Charter and the rule of law; carrying out a massive assault on and occupation of Iraq, a country that was not threatening the United States, resulting in the death and maiming of over one hundred thousand Iraqis, and thousands of U.S. G.I.s?
Bill care to comment?

2) Lying to the people of the U.S., to Congress, and to the U.N., providing false and deceptive rationales for war?
Bill care to comment?

3) Authorizing, ordering and condoning direct attacks on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties were unavoidable?
Bill care to comment?

4) Instituting a secret and illegal wiretapping and spying operation against the people of the United States through the National Security Agency?
Bill care to comment?

5) Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently changing its government by force and assaulting Iraq in a war of aggression? Bill care to comment?

6) Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of prisoners to obtain false statements concerning acts and intentions of governments and individuals and violating within the United States, and by authorizing U.S. forces and agents elsewhere, the rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights?
Bill care to comment?

7) Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda about the conduct of foreign governments and individuals and acts by U.S. government personnel; manipulating the media and foreign governments with false information; concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment concerning acts, intentions and possession, or efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction in order to falsely create a climate of fear and destroy opposition to U.S. wars of aggression and first strike attacks?
Bill care to comment?

8) Violations and subversions of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, both a part of the "Supreme Law of the land" under Article VI, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, in an attempt to commit with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes in wars and threats of aggression against Afghanistan, Iraq and others and usurping powers of the United Nations and the peoples of its nations by bribery, coercion and other corrupt acts and by rejecting treaties, committing treaty violations, and frustrating compliance with treaties in order to destroy any means by which international law and institutions can prevent, affect, or adjudicate the exercise of U.S. military and economic power against the international community?
Bill care to comment?

9) Acting to strip United States citizens of their constitutional and human rights, ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to counsel, without charge, and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the Executive of a citizen as an "enemy combatant?"
Bill care to comment?

10) Ordering indefinite detention of non-citizens in the United States and elsewhere, and without charge, at the discretionary designation of the Attorney General or the Secretary of Defense?
Bill care to comment?

11) Ordering and authorizing the Attorney General to override judicial orders of release of detainees under INS jurisdiction, even where the judicial officer after full hearing determines a detainee is wrongfully held by the government?
Bill care to comment?

12) Authorizing secret military tribunals and summary execution of persons who are not citizens who are designated solely at the discretion of the Executive who acts as indicting official, prosecutor and as the only avenue of appellate relief?
Bill care to comment?

13) Refusing to provide public disclosure of the identities and locations of persons who have been arrested, detained and imprisoned by the U.S. government in the United States, including in response to Congressional inquiry?
Bill care to comment?

14) Use of secret arrests of persons within the United States and elsewhere and denial of the right to public trials?
Bill care to comment?


15) Authorizing the monitoring of confidential attorney-client privileged communications by the government, even in the absence of a court order and even where an incarcerated person has not been charged with a crime?
Bill care to comment?

16) Ordering and authorizing the seizure of assets of persons in the United States, prior to hearing or trial, for lawful or innocent association with any entity that at the discretionary designation of the Executive has been deemed "terrorist?"
Bill care to comment?

17) Engaging in criminal neglect in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, depriving thousands of people in Louisiana, Mississippi and other Gulf States of urgently needed support, causing mass suffering and unnecessary loss of life?
Bill care to comment?

18) Institutionalization of racial and religious profiling and authorization of domestic spying by federal law enforcement on persons based on their engagement in noncriminal religious and political activity?

Bill care to comment?

19) Refusal to provide information and records necessary and appropriate for the constitutional right of legislative oversight of executive functions?
Bill care to comment?

20) Rejecting treaties protective of peace and human rights and abrogation of the obligations of the United States under, and withdrawal from, international treaties and obligations without consent of the legislative branch, and including termination of the ABM treaty between the United States and Russia, and rescission of the authorizing signature from the Treaty of Rome which served as the basis for the International Criminal Court?
Bill care to comment?



THIS IS OLD AND HE DIDN'T WHEN WE NEEDED HIS VOICE.


Bill Clinton care to comment??????????

[H2O Man]

41. Thank you.

I think that there are a lot more republicans who believe that Bush and/or Cheney pose a threat to our constitutional democracy than any poll shows.

[Toots]

42. Vietnam was referred to as a Conflict and Korea as a Police Action

In both the USA was engaged against huge conventional forces. In Vietnam we were engaged against the third largest military on earth at the time and it was considered a Conflict. America knew it was not really a war or we would have actually tried to win it. Calling this business in Iraq a "war" is ridiculous IMO. We are not engaged against a nation-state or any military force. We are not doing anything really other than guarding the oil and killing civilians and occupying another country against their will.

[bdamomma]

43. happy birthday IChing!!

:hi:

[autorank]

46. IChing, happy birthday!

39 right;)

Your father is a good example of the problems, for sure.

It's time, he knows it, we know it, everybody knows it.

There is so much evidence to be hidden and only so much time to do that.

I can't imagine the threats being made right now. Your dad will have his present too, I suspect.