I Have Figured Out How To Impeach Them All

[WilliamPitt]

It's easy.

1. Alienate the African American voting base which is way bigger than the activist base, alienate the Congressional Black Caucus, and alienate the African American chairman of the Judiciary Committe where impeachment would begin, by using two dead titans of a movement he was involved in against that chairman, who is part of the CBC, and who are supported by that voting bloc, and daring to speak at all for two dead titans of a movement many of the white 20-50 years old progressive base were only preipherally involved in.

We don't need the most dependable voting bloc in the party, a large number of votes in the House, and the guy with the gavel. Right?

2. Slogan. It has to be a good one. I have it!

JUST DO IT.

3. Wait, because it will happen any second now.

*tapping foot*

I'm pretty heated right now, so I'm going to go clean my apartment, but let me drop one last thought on you.

I want impeachment more than you do.

"It's about the Constitution."

Mmmm.

Count the words in the Constitution. Those weren't enough. Count the words in the bill of rights.

Now compare that number to JUST DO IT.

Important matters require more than slogans. They require planning and strategy and allies. And 1-3 above is a lot of what we got, and it is either absent of or antithetical to what is required.

IF YOU THINK YOU CAN SAVE THE CONSTITUTION AND ALL ITS WORDS AND IDEAS WITH A THREE WORD STATEMENT...

Then I want impeachment more than you do, because you don't want it at all. Twenty words won't get it either.

Three words? The constitution is looking at you like "Hey, thanks, way to bring a knife to a gun fight."

And the bill of rights is like "Don't tell me, I'm the one who has to defend that stuff. Three words? If I was three words, all our rights would be No Government May...may what? What's the next sentence?"

So.

What's the next sentence, the next three words?

If you don't know or can't even be made to address the mere possibility that three words won't do it, then I want it more than you do.

What's the next three words? When you want that conversation, you'll want it as much as I do.

Talk amongst yourselves. I'm going to go gnaw on some glass.

And yeah, I'm pissed, because the loudest people for impeachment are making it harder to get it done (see #1 above), and the rest of us get jumped on for trying to point this out.

*grind grind grind*

[truebrit71]

1. Stop making sense.

.

[DancingBear]

66. He isn't

He's just on his "look at me!" soapbox again.

Empty promises, empty actions, falling back on the tried and true (and failed) "system" logic.

You can set your watch by it.

He knows there are enough sycophants to get him "greatest" votes.

He lives for that.

Kids die for Pelosi.

Figure it out.

[saracat]

76. You mean the one Cindy stands on all the time?

[truebrit71]

77. Don't you mean Cindy Mandela-Christ-MLK-Gandhi?

:evilgrin:

[DancingBear]

81. Cute

Can't wait for your next post.

The brilliance will, I am sure, be underwhelming.

[truebrit71]

86. Actually kids die for Bush not Pelosi, but you knew that....

Hope you're satsifyingly underwhelmed :yawn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. Remember Pelosi's first 100 hours agenda?

Where was ending the war on that agenda?

[DancingBear]

109. Don't start with facts, now

It f#$ks up the whole "we're better than them" thing that they've worked so hard to memorize. :rofl:

[DancingBear]

79. I expect very little from you

You never disappoint.

How many died today in Iraq?

Is Conyers "ready" yet?

Is Pelosi??

Are you??

[saracat]

82. Has bashing Conyers ended the war? Have you lined up the votes for impeachment?

Hows it all working for ya?

[DancingBear]

108. Oh, I see

We have to make sure we WIN before we actually do the right thing.

See, this is how it works. You bring an impeachment case forward, PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION.

The press PAYS ATTENTION.

When the people see the facts, they agree. They put pressure on their elected officials.

You do know that the majority of Americans favor impeachment, don't you?

You do not delay justice because you are afraid it may hurt somebody's re-election.

But you would rather sit with eyes closed and mutter "we don't have the votes" - that is SO much easier , isn't it?

Count the votes, watch the children die.

What an interesting way to spend a day.

How's it all working for ya?

[WilliamPitt]

96. Did saying that accomplish anything?

You really think anyone here, especially, cat, needs to know how bad it is?

OK, you told us.

Is it over yet?

No?

YOU'RE A FUCKING FAILUIRTqlkjfvuj

Was that fair?

No.

Now what?

(please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it please don't say just do it)

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seabiscuit]

118. Bingo.

Back in May, 2006 during the "Rove indictment" flap there was a war between the sycophants and anyone questioning the existence of such an indictment of Rove.

As usual, the scyphants hung on his every word in his every post and his threads were constantly kicked to the top of the "Greatest Threads" lists.

This prompted one poster (not I) who discovered the existence of such sycophants for the first time during this brouhaha to post: "If he started a thread about taking a dump it would get at least 30 recommendations from his groupies.

Don't look now, but I think he just took that "dump". That poster grossly underestimated the level of groupie adulation. Of course, Rove was never indicted (the story was completely bogus), yet that hasn't stopped the sycophants.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. ...

:hide:

[EFerrari]

3. Someone suggested "ENOUGH" the other day.

That was good.

[Jack Bone]

19. ENOUGH Sundays...check it out

Cenk Uygur & Wes Clark Jr. came up w/ the idea after the commutation a few weeks ago and they asked the listeners to join them around the country...so yeah, we've been doing this...

http://www.awesclarkdemocrat.com/2007/07/enough.htm

[cascadiance]

68. We had 43 at our Enough rally in North County of San Diego last weekend...

The size of the crowd has been more than doubling each week according to the organizers since it started two weeks ago, so maybe we'll get close to 80 next weekend! If it's cool enough perhaps I'll wear my Cheney mask and orange jumpsuit with handcuffs to help people get in the mood!

[Jack Bone]

91. GREAT!!

Lots of luck!! if we got 43 here in Kokomo, IN...I'd be estatic..we had 4 last week..so maybe 8 next week...lets hope so!! I've noticed the more people you have standing out there, the more passers-by stop to talk...the 1st week when I was by myself, I'd get honks, and people passing by would nod politely, this past week we actually talked to people..so yeah, it's growing! and that's a good thing!!

Keep up the Great Work in San Diego!

[Seabiscuit]

119. I live in North County (coastal) - where was it held?

I wish I'd been there. That would have made it 45 (counting my wife).

I'd love to see you orange jumpsuit, Cheney mask, and handcuffs!

[cascadiance]

120. It's on the corner of Pomerado and Twin Peaks in Rancho Bernardo...

We have it there between noon and 1:00 PM on every "Enough" Sunday. It will be interesting to see where all the people wind up as more and more people start coming. We're not stopping traffic now (and I don't know of any plans to intentionally do so), but who knows what might happen later if the crowds start getting a lot bigger (hopefully) and whether we'd need permits in that instance or not.

Here's the Progressive Post page on it:

http://npowebsite.net/pp/PP.asp?Mode=Flyer&ID=5776

Can't promise to wear my suit yet unless it cools off a bit. I don't want to be too hot out there for an hour.

[sandnsea]

4. Kinda' like

ending a war requires more than screaming "out now".

[WilliamPitt]

5. Tried to explain that to two awesomely motivated activists a year ago.

Got called a war-monger.

Wee. This is how we win.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Oh. Those.

There is a smiley for them as well:

:banghead:

They were lots of fun back during the Nam days, too. Pure as the driven snow they were. Moral exemplars and whatnot.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Look around

You're surrounded by them.

[ldf]

112. "you're surrounded by them"??

insulting us does absolutely nothing to help out here, and is, quite frankly, beneath you.

you are incredibly informed, you know what is going on, you are, practically, on the INSIDE! i think you may have lost your perspective. it must be the forest/trees syndrome.

this is IT.

it ain't any type of game any longer.

the fork in the road seems to lead in two directions.

your direction is to allow the politicos to continue their game. keep their powder dry. pick their battles.

what that amounts to is, to do nothing but posture. that's what they have done so far, just talk. pure bluster.

and after they do nothing, WE are all expected to obediently, no EAGERLY trot to the polls and vote for the person that has been selected FOR us. the leader of all those who have done nothing.

and what do you think will be the result? WILL we go? i wouldn't bet on it. people can be lied to so long, then they quit playing the game.

the other path is that SOMEONE, yes, DOES SOMETHING.

simple, yet elegant, huh?

if someone does something, attention is gained. questions will be asked.

if those politicos playing games would be honest with the american people, there is no telling what the response might be.

what if all the crimes were spelled out for the american people?

i think the rage would be so great that the republicans would be out of power for decades, if not permanently.

now let's go back to the first option, where the politicos do nothing.

either the republicans will win, or the democrats will win and address nothing. they will continue to allow the slide down the slope we are already so far down it may not be possible to stop. because they will feel it "prudent" to do nothing. hold no one accountable. we don't have time. there are too many things to fix. and they will continue to do nothing. except the bare minimum.

at what point do you think that those who are OBSESSED by the treason that is not addressed, by our freedoms being taken, by our founding concepts being tossed into the toilet with the constitution and the bill of rights, will take matters into their own hands? when do the assassinations start? which side will get hit first? who will be taken out in revenge against the first assassinations? how long before a total police state?

THAT is what i think your option leads to.

oh, and there is the third option. we do nothing, and bush KNOWS we will do nothing, and does what he needs to do (pearl harbor 3, or whatEVER), and cancels elections.

addressing it now may be our only choice to prevent that.

but let's let the shell game continue, huh? good luck, my friend.

[reichstag911]

22. "Just do it"...

...seemed to work OK for Nike. :shrug:

Seriously, what has "our" success in the midterms accomplished for us (the US)? Nancy taking impeachment "off the table," Conyers not following up on impeachment promises/threats (presumably at least partially in exchange for his Judiciary Committee chairmanship which has accomplished...), and the criminals in the WH becoming even more brazen in their disregard for the Constitution and public opinion as both show themselves to be so clearly against the administration's high crimes and misdemeanors (the few of which the MSM has made the majority aware, that is -- God knows how many there really are).

I have no problem using more than three words, but I choose to use them to push all the harder for impeachment. Granted, I'm no big-shot Judiciary Committee chairman who marched with MLK -- thus knowing whose side he'd be on in the current internecine debate -- but I am not ashamed of the fact that I'll never be a Congress-whore because I don't easily compromise my beliefs -- things which I wonder sometimes if our "leaders" even possess.

[WilliamPitt]

26. It didn't even take a year

to forget how bad it was.

DeLay.

Military Commissions Act.

New SCOTUS.

Insane chairmen.

Dem hearings in broom closets.

That hasn't happened.

We're doing fucking great.

Let's not kill our own people, boost our majority, and start fixing things.

And it will take two years.

Wanna know the acid test? See how many people are left after Bush leaves, and if a Dem wins.

Oh, it's OK now.

No, it's not, and the damage done will take years to fix.

Remember how bad it was before. Don't let it happen again. Work to empower your ability to fix it.

Every day. Lifetime.

:toast:

[reichstag911]

57. To which I reply...

...with National Security Presidential Directive 51.

How much better can we stand it getting, Will? In other words, if not now, when?

[WilliamPitt]

62. HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW

DO. YOU. REALLY. Think I need to hear about how bad it is.

I had dead soldiers thrown in my face earlier. Their families write me, because I AM AWARE of how bad it is. I wrote the first book on the war, eight months before invasion, saying no WMD no Osama no 9/11. It remains right, and I worked every day, and on march 19 I was throwing up in a bucket because not one damn thing I did had helped.

I know how bad it is. Everyone here does.

I don't need to hear about the constitution. I read that link you gave me already.

I know.

But saying IT'S BAD hasn't done it yet, and won't do it.

We need more than that.

And we're not getting it, especially from the ones who want it most.

How do we do it?

It is a totally fair question, and slogans won't get it done. We need bodies, votes, coalitions in both houses of congress, and slogans won't get it done.

It's bad.

Give me the next two words, and we're on our way.

Unless they're "Fuck yourself."

:)

[reichstag911]

80. Nah,...

...I prefer the simpler "Fuck you" to the Cheney-esque use of the reflective "Fuck yourself." Just a matter of principle. ;)

The next two words -- which from a citizen in the US accomplish nothing -- from me would be "representative democracy." That's what we're supposed to have, but we're not being represented by those for whom a majority voted in the last election.

And no, I don't really think you need to hear from me, or anyone else here, how bad it is, but we must vent because in America, we are now otherwise powerless since our elected representatives are not following our will and doing the right thing -- pursuing investigations for the ultimate purpose of impeachment and conviction of Bush, etc., as put forth by Conyers last year in H.Res. 635. Why? 'Cuz Nancy says it's "off the table."

[WilliamPitt]

87. "which from a citizen in the US accomplish nothing"

I mean this with all respect and sincerity.

If you really believe that, really believe that, it makes me sad.

Nancy is one person, and she can't take it off the table. She does not have that power.

[reichstag911]

97. It is sad,...

...it is not what was intended, but I do believe it. I've gotten many anti-Bush, anti-corporate LTTEs published -- one including my favorite published snippet, "the Bush/Cheney crime family," no less -- in major metro newspapers, but do I believe that what I say has changed/improved a single thing? Nope.

Nancy is one powerful, entrenched insider -- not just "one person," in my book -- and she has taken it off the table. She may not have the right, but she has the power, as evidenced by the fact that the Dem leadership, which is getting obstructed on the legislative agenda which it says is the reason they can't have their attention diverted by impeachment efforts, does not immediately commence explicit investigations into the impeachable offenses of Bush/Cheney.

[Knightly_Knews]

99. Danger ..............Danger Will.................

But you are misinformed, of course it's off the table... Nancy wouldn't want it to look like she wants the Presidency... How would that look in the next election? :sarcasm:

She should know, in fact I know damn well she knows, that if nothing is done before next Election that she will not be sitting there. Maybe that is the whole plan, perhaps they really just don't give a shit.

There has to be some Ulterior Motive behind the actions of our Congress and Senate.. How can they possibly know what they know about this regime and continue letting them sit in office? Could it be that Congress and the Senate know what is coming and they value their freedom? You know Scare tactics? Interfere with us and your family will pay kind of shit?

Remember we are dealing with the Mafia here people.. Don't expect to end this without many more of us dying, being detained, tortured, etc, etc. But that is ok, the day they kill me for speaking out, I will die knowing I spit in their fucking faces!


Peace out,
Knight!

[sandnsea]

32. sorry that happened to you

But thanks so much for trying. :)

[WilliamPitt]

35. I was honored to introduce Dahr Jamail

Ran down a quick list of stuff that needed to happen to get out.

They threw stuff.

That's where my old DU post "I Hate Liberals" came from. Google it. It still applies.

:hug:

[sandnsea]

49. I remember that

People want everything in simple little boxes. Even though they say they know life is shades of gray - they can sure exhibit some pretty familiar black and white traits when it comes to what they want.

[WilliamPitt]

51. It is black and white in the minority

because it can be.

It's kinda work and stuff now. Ma-Jor-I-Ty.

:hug:

[wiggs]

42. Right, But it does involve getting the best people in position to make the best

decisions possible in a terribly complex and disastrous situation. No easy task for the best of us.

What we have is the worst people possible in the decision-making position. First step now: get rid of them and put people in who have a better chance at a better outcome.

[WilliamPitt]

46. So we're impeaching the Dem leadership now?

Seriously.

W.

T.

F.

I feel you, but I am not getting you.

Close your eyes and remember Hastert as Speaker and DeLay as whip.

Think about actions and consequences.

I feel you. Don't get it.

[wiggs]

60. You misunderstood, sorry. Congress and our dem leaders have almost no role in

how the occupation in Iraq progresses. Overall strategic planning is up to the executive office. We need people in the executive office who can receive information and facts, interpret them objectively and with good intentions, give orders, and follow up.

Our congressional leaders would be a vast improvement if any of them made it to the executive office...which is what I want.

Thanks for the opportunity to

C

L

A

R

I

F

Y

[WilliamPitt]

70. *whew*

:toast:

I was worried because we had a Dump Reid thread some days ago. Not from a troll (I think).

[buddhamama]

6. Conyers is one of the good guys

it is a shame reasonable people cannot come to some kind of understanding on this issue before it does permanent harm.

[WilliamPitt]

7. This is DU. We only harm ourselves.

If a butterfly flaps its wings in GD, Conyers won't feel it at all.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. if we spent one fourth the effort

fighting Republicans as we do fighting Democrats, the whole situation could be very different today.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Well, we got this...uhh...rage, you see.

And someone, anyone is gonna PAY. We really can't get at Dear Leader or the repukes, so we gotta settle for the next best thing. Dems.

And admittedly, there are times that the dems make it all way too easy.

[Phredicles]

121. But that's not all there is to it. We all KNOW * and the Rethugs and evil, crazy, and stupid,

and nothing is going to change that. But when we see the people we count on to uphold the side of our rights, laws, and constitution taking an approach that somehow manages to appear timid and relaxed at the same time, you're damn right we get mad at them.

We know to expect nothing good from the Insane Clown Posse. But from Pelosi, Conyers, et al, we expect a hell of a lot better than we've been getting. And that's where the vitriol and frustration come from.

[blondeatlast]

113. Ain't that the goddamned awful truth. nt

[lonestarnot]

10. 16 words don't appear to get it done either.

[WilliamPitt]

12. They might

But it'll take more than that to...oh hell with it.

[lonestarnot]

106. Poor Will Pitt. I feel your anxiety. Peace dude.

:hug:

[bryant69]

13. Good callback to the West Wing - Ten Words

I agree - there is something a big juvenile in some of the pro-impeachment anger. I want the world and I want it now, but I don't honestly expect to get it, and I can't get angry at someone for pointing that out.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

20. You know what the worst part is?

You cannot buy impeachment with a credit card. Like immediately, if not sooner and damn the payments and interest.

If you could there would be a lot more happy people.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Yesss...

Give me the next ten words right now, I'll drop out of the race.

We live in a nation way too big for ten words.

Etc.

:toast:

[dorkulon]

14. Impeachment IS necessary.

However it gets done, it really does need to get done. I think it's more important than whether Democrats are best-placed to win the next election. We simply cannot let these guys walk away unscathed. It's not about revenge, it's about the rule of law.

Whatever works, I'm for it. Obviously, the insane rage-based infighting around here is not working. But I do think the issue trumps strategic political advantage.

[Fovea]

16. I have been going around the house muttering

'non passeron' to myself a lot lately.

But I think "Drag the Bastards out!" might do it.

[Dollface]

17. Well said WP

To Just Do Its - You say you got a real solution, we'd all love to see the plan

[rudy23]

18. Why do the anti-impeachers insist that we have to have votes for impeachment BEFORE the trial?

That is my simple question.

[WilliamPitt]

37. Because they're correct

American politics. You always have the votes, give or take, especially on huge issues like this. If you don't, your whip sucks and should be thrown in the river.

That's how Bill got out from under.

[rudy23]

45. Bill got out from under because there was no case against him.

I don't think the Repukes are immune to the anti-Bush sentiments held by their constituents. Especially once you start bringing FACTS into the equation.

That's the big difference. Reality is on our side this time. Facts are on our side.

[WilliamPitt]

55. And that didn't matter either

They still got a ton of votes. Reality doesn't matter, especially not with the GOP. If they'd accused him of humping the moon, they'd have gotten 48 votes. They'd get them today if the whip did his work.

This is what I've been saying. Party networks, interior alliances. THEY ARE THERE.

We can hate them, but if we really want the bodies to stop dropping, WE HAVE TO USE THEM. Or at least be aware of them, at minimum to save on stomach acid.

Why does a liberal Senator from Hawaii reliably vote with a rock-ribbed rightie Senator in Alaska. Akaka is the most reliable vote for the drilling of ANWR.

It took me a while when I was challenged with that, and I didn't get it until I was told, and then I went "ohhhhh."

They're both from non-contiguous states. They have similar needs. They vote together, tit for tat. Akaka would support a bill to poop on Chealse Clinton if it came from Alaska.

Seems clear when you see it. That's the simplest one.

It isn't about us feeling clean or dirty. Congress is a machine. It depends on how you work the clutch.

[rudy23]

63. I respect that, but some of us believe that once the evidence comes out,

not only in the hearings, but in the media, that public pressure (75%-25%) will cause enough Republicans to realize that to save the party, and themselves, they must go against the party line.

Were these Congressional alliances enough to save Nixon? Have we not caught the Pres. and VP with their pants down much lower than Nixon's ever were?

Just because some of us believe this is a possibility, doesn't mean we're reckless idiots who don't understand high school civics. Your condescension isn't doing anything to get us all aligned here on DU--I'd say it's pretty inflammatory, and in opposition to your own sentiments on this thread.

[WilliamPitt]

84. I apologize

I have no meter, and a lot of times, I'm helping myself by writing this stuff out.

I also can't help thinking it has to help a little.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1421154

That's a bit of the deal.

People who know it will find it condescending. People who haven't factored it into their approach will find it helpful. I'm the ass, but twice as many people are rolling in the same direction. I can live with that, cuz I have been. I don't matter.

The GOP knows the evidence. Probably better than us. I mean that not as condescending, but they've been in the room, and they have Dem constituents, and if those Dems are not houseplants, the GOP guys know. They're also in committees where the raw data is out there on the table.

22 of 34 GOPers are running in '08. The pressure isn't on them yet. Soon.

They won't switch for us, no matter the evidence, until it threatens their seat.

If this is so important, in my opinion, we can't hang our hopes on the good sense of the GOP. That hasn't been reliable at all. Hearing it from us didn't help in that marathon session. It has to come with consequences.

Apologies again.

[rudy23]

89. Accepted. I've been there.

It helps me to work through some stuff on here, too.

I still think that impeachment hearings would do more good than harm--even if it doesn't pass. Anything to bring the facts into the light. Anything to say we tried our absolute best to stop this admin and hold them accountable. Anything to make the Repukes go on the record as supportive of this admin.

I don't see the R's rallying around Bush the way we did Clinton. I see it as a long, agonizing, embarrasment for the R's no matter how you slice it.

[wndycty]

21. Will I'm going to call you "Butter" today because you are on a roll!

:kick:

[WilliamPitt]

31. Trying

I'm arguing to passionate people that passion isn't enough.

Yes, I'll have the double-whopper "Beat Down" with a side of "You're A Drunk," and can I get some "Coward" on my "Self-Serving Ego." Maybe I'll have that slice of "He's Just Mad Cindy's Getting Attention," with a dollop of "JUST DO IT"...yeah, and a cup of "It's About The Constitution."

Mmmmmm...allies.

;)

[truebrit71]

36. How about a nice cup of...

Just kidding Will.... ;-)

Saying what needs to be said sometimes means not being popular...like YOU need telling...

Keep it up.

[WilliamPitt]

38. Yeah, that'll settle everything down.

Done enough of that today.

[truebrit71]

39. LOL!!!

:rofl:

[salinen]

85. This is good

Passion flowing like blood from a laceration. The homeland is all atwitter. Every american human unit is discussing what they would do to "fix it". Yes, this is good. When the officials are not harming the people, the people do other stuff, besides imagining how to "fix it".

[rockymountaindem]

24. Thanks for posting here today

Nobody else gets as much attention for these kind of things as you do.

[WilliamPitt]

43. Thanks

These help. :hug:

[rockymountaindem]

52. Why should I listen to him?

Because he has a thermal detonator!!!

[walldude]

25. What kind of condescending crap is this?

I used to respect you but this is just stupid. I don't give a fuck about Conyers, or his staff, I don't give a fuck about your little debates of logic, and I don't give a fuck about any voting base. All I care about is my 2 nephews and my friends kids who are over in Iraq getting fucking shot at while you get up on your little pedestal and claim superiority with your "I want it more than you do" political dance. Sure it may be politics to most of you but it's life or death for me. Sorry if my emotions are getting in the way of your logic. Some of us have more than ideology at stake.

[truebrit71]

27. Not to be an arsehole but I have lost two friends in this war..Gone. Forever.

That doesn't give me the right to jump up and down anymore than it does you.

The one that is being condescending is you.

[WilliamPitt]

28. "Some of us have more than ideology at stake"

We all do, friend, and I'm heated too.

This. Stuff. Has. To. Be. Said.

Why?

Because anyone who wants this to happen can't do it like it has been getting done. But it keeps trying to get done like this, and every time it does, it gets harder to do, and it is already damned hard.

If your life is at stake, and I mean this with my whole heart, we have to do better.

You need to give a fuck about Conyers, because he is where it will begin. Him. Period. He needs to be our best friend. If we want it, we have to swallow whatever bile that sentence brings, because your life is at stake, and we need him.

We have to plan, gather coalitions of allies, get organized, and calm down. Me too.

Nothing happens in politics without that. We're majority now, we have to drive herds.

We are all on the same side. I'm trying to argue before passionate people that passion isn't enough. It was enough in the minority, but not anymore.

:hug:

[Vilis Veritas]

34. Well said...but I thought you were going to go clean?

;-)

Peace

[walldude]

47. Easy to say tough to do, I find it hard to back the guy if he's not

willing to act. His response about worrying about 2008 instead of impeachment is condescending to the families with lives on the line.

Oh and I'm not in Iraq so my personal well being is not at stake but my family's is, we have too many people over there, and I'm tired of waiting for the phone to ring.

Gotta go, back in a few days, hopefully to read about the contempt charges laid on Meirs and Bolton.

Didn't mean to take my frustrations out on you bro, keep up the fight...

[Knightly_Knews]

40. nicely said...........

It's about time "We" end this shit ourselves!!! 2 nights in the slammer for Public Disorder is better than living a life on your knees people. Wake up... If you think you are free, you are a fool. If you all think your congress or senate will get us out of this mess, you are brainwashed.
I, personally, have NO Congressional Representative currently, I have no Senate Representative, And I damn sure have no President.. Come to think of it I have NO Representation period. Because, not only will congress or the senate NOT get off their asses, nor will the people of this Country.. Your computers have gotten to be too convenient. The streets is where the answer is People..

When you go to the store discuss it with your cashier, make sure everyone in line hears what you have to say. Talk about it at work. Talk about it with your neighbors.. If they don't know the truth, give the pamphlets with addresses of credible websites that expose this administration, such as DU.

Write your congressperson and senators. Call them everyday.

Show up for the Sept. 15th Demonstration.. Do not be afraid to confront the police, stand up for your rights. Do not be violent, but be respectful as possible until respect is lost. Tell them they are not American for arresting you against your 1st amendment rights. It's the truth. The truth hurts them..

You cannot fight Ideology with Ideology, The war against Terra is fine proof of this. You fight Ideology with brute force, and nothing less. And this administration's Ideology will kill us all very soon if we do not ACT NOW!

Peace 2 U and Yours,
Knight!

[WilliamPitt]

50. "The streets is where the answer is People"

I feel you.

Millions have turned out. Tens of millions worldwide. Spain and Italy's leadership got bounced.

It hasn't come close to coming close to ending the war.

Well, that's a lie. We have allies inside now.

Inside/Outside.

Street heat outside plus people twisting arms and building coalitions inside.

Example:

Ohio '04.

Lots of street heat. PDA was also inside, and you could hear the heat in the street. We got Jesse Jackson to sit with Boxer.

She stood up.

Was it the street or the hallway?

Neither.

It was both.

Louie, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

:toast:

[Knightly_Knews]

54. With that said..........

I have the greatest of respect for Cindy showing up at Conyers office.. I am so glad to see she came back. I was very disappointed that she left.. But we all need a break, this shit will drive you crazy quickly.
It's very sad to see the people who are suppose to protect and serve this nation only protecting the interest of known murderers, and silencing the people who really care about this Country!

Again, I give praise to Cindy Sheehan.. She is a true role model to those of us that want to end this Fascist Regime for good. I hope to meet her Sept. 15th in DC. I would be honored.

[Marrah_G]

56. You should give a fuck about Conyers

Your friends and family won't come home any earlier without the help of our congress people. Letting emotion rule over logic isn't going to magically bring them home. I have someone there too. I have a 12 day old nephew that just might meet his dad for the first time over Christmas. I know the best way to ensure he doesn't get sent back is to support the Democratic leadership and continually let them know what I think.

[Madspirit]

65. William is one of the best on this board

I 100% disagree with him on this but please, he's allowed to feel strongly the way he feels. It IS passion that will get things done. In that way, he is much like Cindy. <g>

Lee

[Bake]

104. Passion without a plan won't get anything done.

Like a chicken with its head cut off.

Bake

[slj0101]

29. I figured impeachment proceedings were run by applause meter.

The louder we clap, cheer and scream, then the faster it happens. Nevermind that whole needing 67 votes to do it thing. Following procedure's for the birds.

[WilliamPitt]

33. American Impeachment

To impeach Bush, call...

To impeach Cheney, call...

To register for a basic civics class, call...

Mmmm, that last one was mean. I take it back.

Not deleting it tho.

:)

[rudy23]

41. Here's a basic class on the space/time continuum

Impeachment hearings take place

BEFORE

the votes are counted to impeach.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. You've been reading my journal, Will

From April: Please click here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. If You Don't Mind, I'd Like To Use Your Words As My Own.

When it comes right down to it, every single word you just wrote is what I've been feeling for weeks (months?) now and why I've run out of patience. But you said it far better and concisely then I have or could.

So I just wanted to say for everyone that if there has been doubt or confusion as to where I'm coming from and why, since my overly passionate and filled with adjectives posts don't quite put it out there in a clear enough manner, just simply read every word of the OP and know that's exactly where I stand and the core of why I feel the ways I do.

Thanks Will, and hang in there. I know how conflicted you must be from all of this and how frustrating all this must be. I'm just some guy judging best he can from his keyboard. But you actually know these people and it is far more personal for you. My sympathies for how shitty a position you must feel like you're in.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

48. Please, don't go gnawing on some glass. Everyone's a bit frustrated, sir.

Go,...uh,...walk in the woods or something for a bit or,...don't you have a cat? Talk to your cat awhile.

[SaveAmerica]

53. I think DU wanted you to say THAT instead of the other garbled post

It's like the first time you see your Mom or Dad out of control drunk, or crying in deep anguish or out of their usual state of control. Especially if you already feel like things are not right, then you start to worry when they've gone off the deep end, too. You had the right message but your rant was a bit scary. I guess that's an unfair byproduct of writing thoughtful items in the past.

I'm glad you wrote this before you went to chew on glass instead of after.

DU, we have to stay strong.

(and WP, I'm sorry I said that Lion must be tightening his grip on your brain, I think this administration's grip is what's taking a toll on me, we're just anxiously waiting for the lion tamer to get it done. Whoop cha)

[WilliamPitt]

59. Try this one on for size

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1421154

This thread now is my third.

Anger, denial, acceptance.

:)

And thanks. That other one was garbled. I was FURIOUS. Conyers went to the wall for is on Ohio in '04, and on a lot of other stuff. I hate to see him get this kind of crap.

And I hate it coming from my friends.

And I hate when making progress towards a difficult goal is made harder by the ones who want it most.

Now I'm mad again.

:)

[Efilroft Sul]

71. Save America: Impeach.

I think your screen name is the essence of the three-word phrase.

It implies saving the Constitution, restoring our standing in the world, getting rid of an out-of-control administration, and being strong.

[Jack Bone]

58. 3 words...it's taken a while..but here's a few

WON'T BACK DOWN

foreign and DOMESTIC

NOT GIVING UP

SHAKEN AND STIRRED

NOT ROLLING OVER

WE THE PEOPLE

[WilliamPitt]

67. That's an oath. Not a solution.

It's a good oath, and oaths are always a good start.

:toast:

[Knightly_Knews]

69. "WE THE PEOPLE"

*DING DING DING* WE HAVE A WINNER! Johnny tell them what they've won.........................

[Vilis Veritas]

93. This beautiful Cupie Doll...

[Knightly_Knews]

95. ROFL

Cute doll....At least it's not a one way ticket to Gitmo :)

[Jack Bone]

105. Survey Says...IMPEACHMENT!

LAST AMENDMENT STANDING

ANY OLE WAY

I'M STILL FREE

More to Come....wow...I'm thinking in 3's

[billyoc]

61. This is the instant gratification society.

I understand the mentality, I'd like things to be the way I want them right now too.

Oh, hey, wait a second, they are.
I got the Democratic leadership I wanted in both the House and the Senate,
The "first 100 hours" came in with time to spare,
and a blizzard of subpoenas is swirling around the White House.

Pelosi, Conyers, Waxman, Frank, et al, don't always do everything the way I would,
but I don't care. If I wanted to do the actual legislating, I'd be a legislator.

I didn't spend all my time and money to get these people (re)elected so I could
micromanage everything they do.

[mzmolly]

64. *sigh of relief*

Again, thanks. :hi:

[JuniperLea]

72. It's the right thing to do. eom

[kimmerspixelated]

73. Less is MORE!!

Excellent, WP!

But even if there are some passionless folx out there, the ones with passion will more than make up for it. No ifs, ands, or buts, or shoulda ,woulda couldas!!!

JUST DO IT-America don't Screw it!...it's the constitution!

JUST DO IT-Don't stew it!... the Constitution!


It's way past time to list the long lists of reasons why-It's Impeach:59 and ticking!!!!

[Crankie Avalon]

74. Father and son bulls on top of a hill overlooking a herd of cows...

...son bull says, "Hey, pop, let's charge down this hill and impeach one of those cows." Father bull says, "No, son, let's walk down and impeach 'em all."

Or something.

Oh, OK, don't mind me! :silly:

[WilliamPitt]

94. Totally didn't expect that.

And it has been a theme lately for me to be totally unsurprised by every thread.

:toast:

[Babsbrain]

75. You hit a nerve

We need a slogan. Not that there is anything wrong with 'Just Do It'.

I am partial to 'Just Say No...Fuck No!'.

I would like to see a thread with slogan suggestions.

[rateyes]

78. I'm a very loud voice for impeachment, and I have all the

respect in the world for John Conyers. And, I'm STILL involved in the civil rights movement. I won't use Rosa Parks and MLK, Jr. against Conyers.

Having said that, John Conyers is not above criticism. Neither is Cindy Sheehan Good people, in good faith, can disagree. I support Cindy Sheehan AND John Conyers.

Cindy, I believe, understood something that MLK, Jr. CERTAINLY understood. Civil disobedience comes with a price. If you break the law to demonstrate how unjust it is, you still have to go to jail. I don't hear Cindy complaining about that. And, it doesn't diminish John Conyers in my eyes, either.

However, I've been disappointed with John Conyers in the last couple of days because of the roller-coaster ride he put us on. A couple of days before telling Cindy, "elections are the only recourse," he made it sound like he was ready to impeach..."What are we waiting for?" That's what HE said.

IMO, it's not a good thing to antagonize Conyers. IMO, it's neither a good thing to raise the hopes of your political base, and then dash them on a rock two days later.

Both Cindy and Conyers are right. And, both Cindy and Conyers are wrong.

MLK, Jr. said, "Justice delayed is justice denied." That's not a slam on Conyers. I think he's working hard. But, in the meantime...more kids like Casey Sheehan are being killed in an illegal war that we cannot win, and which makes the world more dangerous.

You can stand with Conyers. I'll stand with both. And, I will criticize either one when I feel it is warranted.

And, I assure you, you do not want impeachment more than I. That's not possible.

[me b zola]

100. If I could I would nominate your post

You summed up so many of my feelings on this issue.

[rateyes]

110. You can. I posted it in GD. Thanks.

[Lerkfish]

83. I don't see any contributions from you in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1419187

if you want to use rational arguments, that's a good place for it.

[tblue37]

88. It's not even just any three-word statement--it's the friggin' NIKE comemrcial.

That by itself should give people pause.

[WilliamPitt]

92. We're Juice Guys!

Um, no...

Put a Tiger in your...no.

Thiiiisss is ouuur cooouuuunttrryyy...no. No. I will shoot everyone if I start hearing that again.

Got it.

The answer is the NBA.

IMPEACHMENT: IT'S FAAAAAAAAANTASTIC!

They're not going to need it soon anyway. The new one's gonna be "Sorry we wasted your time, no refunds, bye."

:)

As for the mess around here, I'll go Baseball.

I love this game.

:banghead:

[Jack Bone]

90. After watching Sponge Bob...I came up w/ this..

I've added 2 more words for emphisis...you'll understand after you read it.

take your JUST DO IT and flip it..

DON'T DO IT!!

hence the need for the additional 2 words..

THEN WHAT?

so here's my updated slogan for the masses...

DON'T DO IT...
THEN WHAT?

funny how Sponge Bob can clear your mind...

[zalinda]

102. And I have an answer

DON'T DO IT....
THEN WHAT?

Then a dem walks into the white house in Jan 09, and undoes everything that Bushco has done in the last 7 years. All he/she has to do is the same as Bush, signing statements, executive orders, etc, when the repubs complain, it's "Bush did it, and I didn't see you saying anything". Then when all the harm has been undone (I'm not foolish enough to think everything can be undone, certainly not lives.) we close all the loop holes. We make it so it can't happen again.

Yes, I know it's a dream, but it's the only relief I get from the current nightmare.

zalinda

[baldguy]

101. Cindy attacks Conyers

And the bushies sit back & laugh.

[Bake]

103. Gawd Will, please stop being so rational.

And save some glass for me.

Bake

[Peace Patriot]

111. I don't think our leaders have said enough about the rigged voting machines--

let alone done enough to get rid of them. The rigged voting machines--extremely insecure and insider riggable electronic voting systems, run on 'trade secret' code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, and fast-tracked across the country during the 2002 to 2004 period--are likely the REASON that there are not enough votes in Congress to impeach these criminals, and to stop the war.

And when you look into the history of the "Help America Vote for Bush Act" of 2002 (aka, HAVA, a $3.9 billion boondoggle that rushed these machines into use, everywhere, with virtually no audit/recount controls), you realize that it was passed in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution (October 2002), and is closely related to it. What would be the purpose of pushing such an egregiously non-transparent vote counting system? You start an unjust, heinous war, you've got to figure the people will get good and riled up eventually. And in this case, 56% of the people were already against this war at the beginning (Feb. '03). Now it's 70%. Yup. That's what the rigged voting machines were likely installed to deal with--a peace-minded American majority that would only get angrier as "Vietnam deja vu all over again" got re-played.

But the real kicker--the thing that hurts really, really bad--is that our party leadership supported e-voting with "trade secret" code, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations. And they still support it, and are busily trying to save this rightwing corporate control over our election results, with a half-assed, patch-it-up-with-a-bandaid "paper trail," which they have now put off until 2012. We don't even get half-assed reform (bills that don't ban the machines, and that contain "poison pills," like the President getting sole control over the secret code).

As for John Conyers, a man I revere, I noticed when he held the hearings on the 2004 election, and in the subsequent report, the focus was on the suppression of black and other votes--a matter that was already a crime, and can and should be remedied by the enforcement of the Voting Rights Act of 1965--and was strangely roundabout with regard to the highly riggable vote counting system that had spread like a cancer over the whole country, in such a short time.

This is where I differ with others on what to think of someone like Conyers. I believe that he deliberately tilted the investigation away from the fascist coup that had occurred with the voting machines, all over the country, and toward the details of vote suppression in Ohio, in order to get his investigation by the powers-that-be in the Democratic Party. I think Barbara Boxer did the same thing. I think it was verboten to challenge Diebold and ES&S, and that Diebold/ES&S's quick takeover of our election system was as much a Corporate Democrats' plot as it was a Bushite Tom Delay/Bob Ney plot. More Democratic Senators and Congress members voted for Bushite corporations 'counting' all our votes under a veil of corporate secrecy than voted for the IWR.

I think Conyers and Boxer knew what the limits were, and acted accordingly--out of fear. I'm guessing that it was fear of having no support at all from the DLC and other Dem leaders, and no ability to build coalitions on anything. There may also be other kinds of fear. Fear of personal ruination (as happened to Calif Sec of State Kevin Shelley, who challenged Diebold just before the 2004 election--done in by our own party leaders as much as by Schwarzenegger and corrupt county election officials). Also, Gonzo & cabal have been spying on everybody. Who knows what terrors our better Democratic leaders may be living under?

So, my view of Conyers is one of compassion. I think he is a very good man. I think he is doing good--he has heartened us all! Who among us was not given a great psychic boost, in the depths of hell after the 2004 (s)election, by John Conyers' stubborn pursuit of the Ohio election theft story, while having to hold the hearings in a capitol hill basement?

He gets my benefit of the doubt on fear vs. corruption motives. And, as Will has been trying to say here, we need to hone our outrage and passion with some realism, in order to think STRATEGICALLY--something that it is extremely important to do right now, and is particularly difficult to do when people are getting tortured, shot and blown up in our name. But it is a must-do.

And whether it's thinking strategically about Congress, impeachment and the war, or about what I consider to be our most critical problem, the cause of all our other problems--the rigged voting machines--we have to think about power. We can protest all we want, we can scream our bloody heads off, we can rend our garments and cry to heaven before the Washington Monument, we can put a million people into the streets, but until we restore vote counting that everyone can see and understand, and start electing greater numbers of real representatives of the people, nothing is going to change.

The rigged voting machines are not the only thing wrong with our election system, by any means. But they are the democracy-killer. They make change impossible. We can out fundraise or at least match the fascist war chests--in this filthy, disgusting campaign contribution system-- and we can outvote the fascists in almost any county of the country. We have the numbers. We are the majority! But if they can use money, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and "military-industrial complex" lobbying interests to, first of all, narrow the field of candidates in any race, and THEN tweak these extremely riggable machines 2% or 5% or 10%, without detection, they can stop all reform. And that is what they have done.

A Stalinist vote counting system is not only useful for shoving a war down the throats of an unwilling people. It is also useful for extending corporate rule into perpetuity. Continued tax breaks for the rich, continued gas gouging and other thievery, continued corporate monopoly control of our public airwaves, etc., can also be enforced--and reform prevented--if you control the vote counting with "trade secret" programming code.

Break us with war, steal us blind, cripple our ability to vote for reform, and turn the United States of America into the latest global corporate predator "banana republic." That's what happening. And the key to it cannot be found in the House Judiciary Committee, or Congress, or the White House, or anywhere in Washington DC. The key to it can be found down at your local registrar's office, where you are no longer permitted to see how our votes are counted. The key is inside those "black boxes" we're 'voting' on, and in the secretly coded central tabulators in state election offices. And it was put there by people who don't have our interests at heart, and who despise, and are fast destroying, our democracy.

I grow impatient with all the weeping and wailing over our powerlessness, and over the dreadful things that are being done, when so little attention is being paid to the ONLY mechanism that gives us any REAL power: our vote. It is the sum and substance of our sovereignty as a people. And they have taken it away--with the collusion of our own party leaders.

The reason that the Democrats don't have enough votes in Congress to impeach Bush and Cheney, and end the war, is that they DIDN'T WANT to have enough votes!

If they did, they never would have permitted Diebold/ES&S and other election theft machines into our voting system in the first place, they would have loudly and persistently objected to it, and they would have at the least insisted on a 100% handcount of the votes as a check on machine fraud, at least in the first couple of all Diebold/ES&S elections--and, when Max Cleland's vote was flipped back in 2002, and when Bush/Cheney 'won' the 2004 election against the odds of every data set I have seen, they would have screamed bloody murder about it.

They did none of these things. None! They suppressed all talk of election fraud. And it was everything John Conyers could do to get them to pay the least attention to massive suppression of black and other Democratic votes in Ohio, and our party leaders even ignored THAT! To 'win,' Karl Rove had to purge 1 million black votes from the voting rolls IN ADDITION to gaining direct control of 80% of the vote tabulation with "trade secret" code. (And THAT is what the Rove/RNC emails are about, believe me.) They laid the foundation for the election theft by stealing small percentages of votes all over the country, purging black voters wherever they could, and then massively suppressing the vote in Ohio.

And until we reckon with this, and do something about it, we are only going to meet with frustration after frustration. We need to get this through our heads: Most of the Democrats in Congress are as beholden to Diebold/ES&S as the Pukes are. They are no longer beholden to us! And they are NOT going to GIVE us back our right to vote. We have to take it back ourselves, through a long, hard effort at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have some influence.

I am not against lobbying and pressuring Congress, and protesting. These things help educate people, hearten people and give us whatever little edge we have, as a people, to temper fascist policy. They also help in the effort to outvote the machines, wherever possible. But keep in mind the words attributed to Josef Stalin: "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." And, while you're at it, you might want to google Diebold and ES&S and find out WHO is 'counting' your vote with "trade secret' code.



---------------------------------------


Throw Diebold and ES&s election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

[radfringe]

114. 3 words? ummm...how about 4?

TAKE THE NEXT STEP

or
IMPEACHMENT - THE NEXT STEP

for a theme song we can rwrite the words to God Bless America as I MISS AMERICA

[Usrename]

115. Are you supposed to be helping?

Another do-nothing and hope for the best post. Give it a rest.

[Warren Stupidity]

116. Do you have any positive suggestions for action?

Or just endless negativity? Do we just sport da party? Is that all you've got?

[IronLionZion]

117. Where there's a WILL, there's a way...as you know.

No shit you're pissed. As if you're the only one. There's no shame in logging off for a bit.