You mean acting irrational won't get us impeachment?

[ShaneGR]

I simply refuse to believe that protesting probably the one man that makes no sense to protest will hurt the cause of impeachment. I mean, what does he mean he's short on votes? Where does he think he is? In a place that counts votes? I don't think so! And never mind that if impeachment proceedings were brought, they'd lose ANY chance of bringing an end to the war. Impeachment #1. End of war #2. I'm sure President Cheney will be quick to pull us out of Iraq. Wait, I thought the end of the war was first. Didn't they just pass a bill in the house calling for a pullout again? Gees, never mind

I'm sure Rosa Parks, and Martin Luther King JR, heck, even Ghandi is pissed at Conyers now. Memo to come soon from the netherworld. What they're upset for, I'm not sure. But I know they're mad. How dare that black guy not impeach someone without having to the votes to do so. That's it, I'm gonna run for Congress against someone I have absolutely no chance of defeating. Maybe I'll siphon enough votes off to help the Republican win. Ooops, my opponent won with 80% of the vote last time. Never mind again.

Oh ya, we're the party of slavery. I forgot that. And we started every war of the 20th century. Spouting off irrational comments really helps the movement too. Especially when you're attacking the side most likely to end the war. NM history or its implications over time. Never mind!

Circular firing squad ten.... hut!

[Jack Rabbit]

1. Acting irrational will not get us impeachment

The House Democratic leadership continues to irrationally oppose the impeachment of Bush or Cheney, and it has not gotten the two war criminals and fascists out of office.

[cynatnite]

2. How is it irrational when the votes aren't there?

They can't get them. If they thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of getting them, there'd probably be impeachment hearings right now.

[Jack Rabbit]

3. As of now

Voters are evenly divided about Bush and favor impeaching Cheney by a 54-40 margin, according to the ARG poll published two weeks ago.

[cynatnite]

5. And you think the repukes care about what the votors think?

The repukes are cheerleading a very unpopular war and support a very unpopular president. All the polls in the world won't change the fact that repukes put party above country.

That means even if bush ate a baby on live television the repukes would still support him and won't vote for impeachment and removal.

[Jack Rabbit]

6. Impeachment

I'll remind you of what I reminded Vyan the other day. Impeachment is often used by most people as shorthand for the entire process from investigations of wrongdoing to removing the offender from office. In spite of holding a BA in political science, I use the word that way.

It is time for the Democrats to use this process with the end goal of toppling the Bush regime.

The Democrats can and should begin to lay out the case for impeachment, with evidence that is known as well as pursue further evidence and add that to the case. So far, that has yielded Bush invoking executive privilege and stating that no contempt changes filed by Congress will be prosecuted by his justice department. That is an impeachable offense in itself.

Laying out the case in this way will bring about a rise in the poll numbers favoring impeachment. The 22 Senate Republicans who face re-election next year will oppose removal at their peril.

What do you propose? Doing nothing? That runs the risk of a larger and wider war in the Middle East, the further erosion of civil liberties through egregious executive orders, the further disrespect of legislative branch through outrageous signing statements and bogus, politically motivated prosecutions aimed at caging voters.

[cynatnite]

11. I'm not disagreeing with you...

Impeachment and conviction is necessary, but is it realistic? I personally don't because despite polls and elections not far off the repukes have shown no desire to change their positions.

The repukes value party over country. If that wasn't the case, bush would have been impeached and tossed out on his ass a long time ago.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. about even for Bush?

I've seen two polls that put the numbers at 36% and 45%.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. On the ARG poll:

From ThinkProgress via AlterNet
Dated July 9

Conyers: The American People Want to See Bush, Cheney Impeached

udiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers released the following statement in response to a letter from the White House in which the White House reiterates its intentions to assert executive privilege, without providing justification for the privilege claim as requested by the Committee:

“We are extremely disappointed with the White House letter. While we remain willing to negotiate with the White House, they adhere to their unacceptable all-or-nothing position, and now will not even seek to properly justify their privilege claims. Contrary to what the White House may believe, it is the Congress and the Courts that will decide whether an invocation of Executive Privilege is valid, not the White House unilaterally.”

This morning on ABC's This Week, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) highlighted the new American Research Group poll showing that nearly half of Americans want the House of Representatives to begin impeachment proceedings against President Bush, and 54 percent favor impeachment hearings for Vice President Cheney . . . .

Conyers decried the administration's stonewalling, adding, "We're hoping that as the cries for the removal of both Cheney and Bush now reach 46 percent and 58 percent , respectively, for impeachment that we could begin to become a little bit more cooperative, if not amicable, in trying to get to the truth of these matters."

This was the subject of serveral threads here two weeks ago. Opposing beginning proceedings against Bush were 46% and in favor were 45% (not 46 as in the story, but that falls in the MOE).

I can only imagine that Bush's actions since July 9 that only caused those numbers to rise. Gonzo's testimony today won't help him, either, especially if he makes another fact-free endorsement of Gonzo as he has done up to now.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Yes... that poll had 45%

another one around the same time reported 36%.

So the real answer is probably around 41%. We need to get that number higher. Investigations can do that.

[Catch22Dem]

8. It's not about public opinion

It's about actual votes in congress.

[onenote]

13. and other polls have other results

For example:

USA Today/Gallup Poll. July 6-8, 2007. N=1,014 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"As you may know, impeachment is the first step in the constitutional process for removing a president from office, in which possible crimes are investigated and charges are made. Do you think there is or is not justification for Congress to begin impeachment proceedings against President Bush at this time?"

.

There Is Justification 36%
There is Not Jusification 62%
Unsure 3%

Ultimately, national polls don't matter. Its district by district, and I suspect that the numbers in a lot of blue dog Democrats districts don't give them any reason to support starting the impeachment process at this moment in time.

[Breeze54]

9. Just give up.

[WilliamPitt]

4. I have the fucking plan already. It's right here in this post.

One protester:

:banghead:

A whole rally:

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I'm gonna take off for ten thousand years or so. If the wall moves and the protesters are right, I'll apologize.

But seriously, folks, we need both. All. Inside/Out.

[LittleClarkie]

10. You forgot to include a picture of Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks

and Ghandi all looking right at the posters with a disappointed expression.

Because, you know, we speak for them. We know what they'd say if they were here. And they always agree with us.

And besides, posting their pictures in our threads makes us more important than those who disagree with us.

[EFerrari]

14. That would be "irrationally" and no, petitioning the Chair of the

House Committee that would move on an impeachment action isn't irrational.