I'm calling BULL POOP on allegations of drunk astronauts

[johncoby2]

I have a blog in NASA area of Houston Texas, Bay Area Houston and I think it is time to call bullshit on the drunk astronaut story.

It is hard to believe that an highly trained astronaut would risk the safety of his crew and a $2 Billion launch by being intoxicated prior to flight. It is just beyond reason, to the point that maybe it is time to call bullshit on the allegations.

http://bayareahouston.blogspot.com/2007/07/time-to-call-bull-poop-on-nasa.html

Come by for a read. I think there are questions that need to be answered.

[NoodleyAppendage]

1. That was a distraction story from the real story of SABOTAGE at NASA.

Espionage activities at NASA don't play very well for the administration.

J

[johncoby2]

2. What SABOTAGE are you talking about?

The data recorder?

That wasnt SABOTAGE. That was stupid. It happened at the facility where it was manufactured. If it EVER got to a NASA facility, the testing would have easily flushed it out. You dont fly ANYTHING without rigorous testing. The problem was found at the manufacturer.

Whoever did this was pretty stupid.

Oh. P.S. The budget was passed.

[NoodleyAppendage]

35. I'm talking about the sub-contractor individual who manually cut wires in one of the computers.

There was a story coincident with the drunken astronaut cover story about an individual detected a month earlier cutting wires inside one of the computers set up as space station payload.

See here for the story: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=58fe8f2f-0cf4-4c0a-9f51-07fa692fe56f&k=99646

Hmmm...they released this embarrassing and potentially dangerous info the day before the drunk astronaut release. Can you say, "burying bad news?"

J

[MADem]

3. Well, I've known a few drunken pilots. Look at our Commander in Chief.

And way back when, people forget, there was a crash on an aircraft carrier, back in the Reagan days, and half the pilots and flight crews tested positive for THC.

It happens. There's no psych screening of these people on an ongoing basis. If they can con people that they have "The Right Stuff" at initial entry, so long as they perform above par, no one is going to say shit to them.

I believe it. Completely. Not that every single one did it, but they weren't all a bunch of John Glenns, either.

You also need to keep in mind that the rule is Twelve Hours Between the Bottle and the Throttle. I'm not surprised that that rule was violated--it frequently is in other aviation circles as well.

[johncoby2]

4. Obviously you have not read the post.

"You also need to keep in mind that the rule is Twelve Hours Between the Bottle and the Throttle. I'm not surprised that that rule was violated--it frequently is in other aviation circles as well."

That again was not true. Where did you get that phrase from?

[MADem]

6. My, aren't you angry. I got the phrase from the aviation community.

And the fact that the drinking was SELF ADMITTED. AND the fact that the exculpating letter you published from Wifey (insisting that such drinking was impossible) suggests that her husband apparently lied to her, or she made some incredibly dumbass assumptions, about how much BOOOOOOOOOZE is available in those "quarantined crew quarters."

Here, have a lookie:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/07/27/nasa.woes/index.html

The space agency said astronauts flew drunk at on at least two occasions, despite warnings from doctors and colleagues that they posed a flight risk.

As a result, NASA deputy administrator Shana Dale said new procedures would be put in place immediately, including an internal review and a no-alcohol policy for 12-hours before all missions....According to the report, released earlier Friday, interviews with flight surgeons and astronauts "identified some episodes of heavy use of alcohol by astronauts in the immediate preflight period."......"Alcohol is freely used in crew quarters," the report said. "Two specific instances were described where astronauts had been so intoxicated prior to flight that flight surgeons and/or fellow astronauts raised concerns to local on-scene leadership regarding flight safety. However, the individuals were still permitted to fly."



Are you suggesting that the FLIGHT SURGEONS are making this shit up? For what purpose?? Are all flight surgeons, what, BushCo tools?
http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070728/NEWS01/707280403/1075

WASHINGTON — NASA announced Friday it has opened an investigation into allegations of heavy alcohol use among astronauts who violated the agency's "bottle-to-throttle" policy that bans drinking 12 hours before a flight.

The allegations came in a report that claimed "alcohol is freely used in crew quarters" where astronauts are quarantined in the week leading to a flight.

U.S. Air Force Col. Richard Bachmann, chairman of the independent panel that conducted the review, recounted during a news conference two instances where drunken astronauts were allowed to fly, despite concerns expressed by crewmembers and flight surgeons.

One case involved an astronaut who got on a T-38 training jet after the postponement of a shuttle launch. The other case involved a Russian Soyuz flight to the International Space Station.

Both times, senior flight surgeons raised concerns to NASA leaders, but "the medical advice was disregarded," the review said.

So, yeah, I call bullshit on your calling bullshit, I guess. That twelve hour rule is cast in stone. You're the only one who doesn't seem to know about it.

[johncoby2]

9. Ass I said, you didnt read the post.

Maybe I am missing something, but where in the report (and i have read it) does it say this drinking took place during the shuttle program which was started in 1981?

Ignorance does anger me.

[MADem]

13. It says it happened at least twice. It doesn't give you specific dates, if that's what you are

looking for. It says that members of crews going to the SPACE STATION were loaded. Unless we got to that Space Station on wings of wax.....

Look, I can't help you with your reading skills. Sound the words out....

[Not Me]

5. I remember Jack Nicholson in Terms of Endearment...

he liked to get his drink on.

Oh, nevermind.

[MADem]

7. And his character probably got it on in those CREW QUARTERS, too!!!

They said alcohol use and other behavioral issues are "so deeply ingrained and long-standing that it will take senior leadership action to remediate them."

Despite the report and the widening scandal, alcohol is not being banned in the astronaut quarters, NASA officials said, and will be available to the crew members of shuttle Endeavour while they go into quarantine three days before their Aug. 7 flight.

"There is alcohol available," said Ellen Ochoa, an astronaut who serves as director of flight crew operations. "It is permitted, but it's only for off-duty time."

The seven astronauts, including elementary school teacher Barbara Morgan, were reminded Friday of a policy that had been implicit, should have been obvious, but now is explicit, NASA said.

"You will not consume alcohol within 12 hours of flight and you will not be under the influence of alcohol at time of launch," Shana Dale, deputy administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, said during a news conference in Washington.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_6487947

[kenny blankenship]

21. I'm thinking space is the new frontier for Lindsay Lohan's career

that girl needs a lot of room around her. She's got the Right Stuff, and if she doesn't have it on her at the moment, she knows where to get some.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. As long as she's not behind the wheel on the freeway, I don't give a shit what she snorts.

Frankly, the drug war is an idiotic joke. Consenting adults should be free to make decisions, even dumb ones, about what they want to do with their own bodies.

[Fierce]

8. I don't think they were drunk in the shuttle.

But I don't think they weren't drinking -- a lot -- when they shouldn't have been.

It's hard to believe that trained airline pilots would risk the safety of their crews and 150 people on a commercial flight by drinking when they shouldn't. But that's happened, too.

[MADem]

15. They were hung over and impaired, for sure

From the report:


Finding: Interviews with both flight surgeons and astronauts identified some episodes of heavy use of alcohol by astronauts in the immediate preflight period, which has led to flight safety concerns. Alcohol is freely used in crew quarters. Two specific instances were described where astronauts had been so intoxicated prior to flight that flight surgeons and/or fellow astronauts raised concerns to local on-scene leadership regarding flight safety. However, the individuals were still permitted to fly. The medical certification of astronauts for flight duty is not structured to detect such episodes, nor is any medical surveillance program by itself likely to detect them or change the pattern of alcohol use.

[Fierce]

17. Yes, indeed.

But the headlines implying that the astronauts were falling-down drunk are a little hyperbolic, methinks.

[MADem]

19. Well, the report differentiates. The media loves to spin as always.

They shouldn't have been anywhere near a lauch pad in their condition, is the point, I guess.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I agree

I haven't believed this since the story first came out.

[stray cat]

11. We've had drunken airline pilots pulled from flights

probably also instances where other pilots covered for pilots. Drunk driving is not just something that car drivers do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. I don't know about the NASA pilots but I've strapped in drunk fighter pilots.

More than a few times when I was a plane-captain in the Marine Crotch. As did many of my fellow plane captains. The pilots would sometimes, literally, beg us to "down" their planes...which we sometimes did..for a price. Usually, they'd be sucking on oxygen to get sober enough to get the plane off the ground.

To be fair, though, a lot of the plane-captains were more than a little unsteady on many occasions.

[MADem]

14. Isn't that truth rather interesting! I know of what you speak.... nt

[Retired AF Dem]

16. You are correct

the hardest drinkers I have ever known are pilots.

[karlrschneider]

24. So true. I've flown a jillion times with a hangover but only once while actually drunk...

and that was a case of dire necessity. ;-)

[DemoTex]

25. My roomy in Viet Nam had done a previous tour as a helo pilot ..

When the shit hit the fan during the wee hours on the first day of the Tet '68 offensive, they were scrambled to get all the Hueys in the air and out of the way of sappers, rockets, and mortars. Les was still in the "O" club when the scramble happened. He flew a UH-1 for two hours, landed for fuel, and then flew another two hours (until dawn) .. and never remembered any of it!

So, like they said (about flying drunk) in Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff: "I wouldn't recommend it; but it can be done."

[karlrschneider]

29. No surprise at all. (Assuming here the statute of limitations has come and gone):

One time I actually recall -most of-, got a call at 11 p.m. from the 'old man' telling me I had to pick up a VIC (very important customer) at Southwest Airmotive at KDAL at 0700. I had a houseful of guests and it took me 2 hours and several -more- drinks to get rid of them. I did manage to wake up about 5 a.m., got the plane on course and fell asleep.
Woke up, luckily, before flying out over the Gulf of Mexico but no idea where I was. (No GPS in those days)...finally found a VOR within range...I think it was one around San Antonio. Or somewhere. But I did manage to get back to Love Field only 15 minutes late. Those good old days when we were young and immortal, eh?
;-)

[DemoTex]

18. Fighter pilot breakfast: A cigarette, a cup of coffee, and a good puke.

"Careful, two. Lead has the jim-jams."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. We had one hotshot Lt. who had to clean up his own puke in the cockpit.

After a particularly rough night at the Glorious Officer's Club. By all appearances, he enjoyed our hilarity even less than his ride.

[Homer Wells]

22. HELL!! I wouldn't blame them!!

Sometimes I need a drink or two just to get on a long flight.

I can't imagine sitting on top of that gigantic bomb and just praying that it does not go up in flames (ala Challenger), but I can imagine a little buzz would make it easier to do.

Just sayin'

:beer:

[dysfunctional press]

23. watch or read "the right stuff".

you'll change your tune.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier with a broken rib.

:thumbsup:

[dysfunctional press]

31. i love the yeager stoyline...but i was thinking more of gus grissom

and a couple others as well. they partied pretty hard.

[cynatnite]

27. It sounded like someone had a drink seven hours before flight...

and that pilots aren't supposed to drink 12 hours beforehand. They called it intoxication.

I didn't read it, but that's my impressions. I've never heard them say that anyone one was outright intoxicated and stumbling onto the space shuttle.

[karlrschneider]

30. They have the rules confused: It's "No smoking within 12 hours of a flight, and

no drinking within 50 feet of the airplane."
:evilgrin:

[cynatnite]

32. ...

:rofl:

[MADem]

36. It was worse than that. See the quotes upthread. nt

[cynatnite]

37. Thanks...I went through them...

:thumbsup: Consider me rightly informed on the subject. :)

[Richard Steele]

28. Well, the NASA doctors disagree with you. Perhaps you should take it up with them.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Oh, well - ok then. As long as somebody who wasn't there tells me so.