"betray us" has really struck a nerve

[knowbody0]

hmmmm.

[edhopper]

1. OMG!

Petreaus is being attacked by Move-on. He must be good and honest and just.
Your RW talking point for the day.

[doublethink]

2. has a certain ring to it huh?

:) ...... "The Betray Us Report" go with it!

[knowbody0]

5. gifted to us

[Nimrod2005]

3. I guess we hurt their feelings?

[panader0]

4. Moveon.org being villified

Don't you get it? If you're not with bushco, you are a traitor.

[doublethink]

6. So about 60% of Americans are now traitors ..... hmmm some democracy.

:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

7. I was just going to start a thread on this

The ReThugs are very defensive about it.

We need to use it more.

Don

[knowbody0]

8. yes yes yes

he no doubt was once a good man. this has to hurt

[TheWebHead]

9. it was a childish move by moveon.org

it completely feeds into the hands of the republicans and will be used as a battering ram which frankly few if any will defend in the traditional media today... Especially when it was published before he even gave his testimony.

[Warpy]

10. Oh, balls.

We the people are powerless, or have been convinced that we are so. Powerless people do unseemly things.

Time to grow a thicker skin and screw the right however we can.

[bdamomma]

14. powerless we may have to be, to rebuild ourselves and we are

a force not be thrown aside either. they will not ignore us.

[bdamomma]

15. powerless we may have to be, to rebuild ourselves and we are

a force not be thrown aside either. they will not ignore us.

[truth2power]

25. Thank you, Warpy. I agree. eom

[tom_paine]

27. Well, said.

[Nite Owl]

11. Moveon.org represents its

members, this was wanted so they did it, that's the way they work. Traditional media are the ones responsible for getting us into this mess, it's time they and the pols in DC learn that the people will get a voice if they don't represent us.

[AndyA]

12. Sometimes the truth isn't pretty.

Sometimes it's uncomfortable to hear the truth, or read about it.

The Moveon.org ad put the truth in black and white for the world to see. If people don't like it, or think it's over the top, they should deal with the source of the ad: the war in Iraq.

It's based on lies. It needs to end.

[H2O Man]

23. Sept 10th thinking n/t

[Tesha]

13. If you haven't seen the ad, go here.

http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html

---

General Petraeus is a military man constantly at war with the facts. In 2004, just before the election, he said there
was “tangible progress” in Iraq and that “Iraqi leaders are stepping forward.” And last week Petraeus, the architect
of the escalation of troops in Iraq, said, “We say we have achieved progress, and we are obviously going to do
everything we can to build on that progress.”

Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed. Yet the General
claims a reduction in violence. That’s because, according to the New York Times, the Pentagon has adopted a bizarre
formula for keeping tabs on violence. For example, deaths by car bombs don’t count. The Washington Post reported
that assassinations only count if you’re shot in the back of the head — not the front. According to the Associated
Press, there have been more civilian deaths and more American soldier deaths in the past three months than in any
other summer we’ve been there. We’ll hear of neighborhoods where violence has decreased. But we won’t hear that
those neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed.

Most importantly, General Petraeus will not admit what everyone knows: Iraq is mired in an unwinnable religious
civil war. We may hear of a plan to withdraw a few thousand American troops. But we won’t hear what Americans are
desperate to hear: a timetable for withdrawing all our troops. General Petraeus has actually said American troops
will need to stay in Iraq for as long as ten years.

Today, before Congress and before the American people, General Petraeus is likely to become General Betray Us.

[Liberal In Texas]

16. I've been using that since it was found out that his report was going to be a white-wash.

And I shall make sure that I only call him that in conversation from now on.

[bryant69]

17. Yeah it's cause liberals are pretty much as stupidly slogan driven as consevatives

That's the way of it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ShortnFiery]

18. Yes, thank goodness we have you moderates to keep us smart.

;) <tease>

[KittyWampus]

24. Actually, liberals generally SUCK at packaging their message. And a lot of DU'ers are too blind

to realise the importance of packaging. Or, as Lakoff calls it, 'framing'.

It's human psychology 101.

DU'ers and too many liberals think all you have to do is present a persuasive intellectual argument to win people over.

That doesn't work.

On ANYONE. From any side of the political spectrum.

[bryant69]

26. Well yes, I'd totally agree with that

Although I'm not sure I'd consider "Betray Us" a persuasive intellectual argument. We are often guilty of trying to frame an issue in a framework that makes sense to us, without considering how it might look to others. I get why "Betray Us" works around DU as a nice slogan, even an accurate one. But you have to consider how it looks outside of DU.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tkmorris]

31. You're missing the point.

If "persuasive intellectual arguments" were all that was needed to effect changes in policy we'd never have been in Iraq in the first place. I sincerely wish the general American public could be convinced by logic and reason but alas, it is not so. Pithy little made-up catchphrases are exactly how this war was packaged and sold, and if that's what it takes to unsell it then that's what we have to do.

[bryant69]

32. If your point is that Betray Us is a good way to reach the American people

Than I'm afraid I have to disagree. It's a lousy way to reach the American people.

Bryant

[H2O Man]

19. Minister Malcolm X

used to say that when he heard his opponents squawk the loudest, he knew he had said something right.

[Joe Fields]

20. Fuck what the other side thinks or says.

Anyone who DIDN'T think this was going to be a whitewash from the moment it was announced he would have a report on the status of the troop surge in September is an idiot. I've been calling this guy "Betray Us" for several months now. Anyone within the administration or in any real position of authority within the armed forces that doesn't tow the White House line is taken out of the loop and met with an abrupt end to their career.

The last thing I want to hear from any dem is "we shouldn't say anything that could be used against us." So, we're not supposed to say ANYTHING? Because, in case some people haven't noticed, the other side will say or do anything to advance their agenda, including making a lot of shit up. So fuck 'em. It doesn't matter now, does it? Bravo to Move On and anyone else for telling it like it is.

[Individualist]

21. I love the sound of squealing neocons and DLCers

[KittyWampus]

22. Struck a nerve? Infantile, sophmoric name calling strikes a nerve? It's something I don't want to be

associated with. But then I'm not a case of arrested development.

Making fun of someone's name is what children on a playground do.

Hence my use of the adjectives infantile and sophmoric.

[angstlessk]

28. children in playgrounds are sophmoric...betcha they don't know it!

are you of the elite DLC?

[treestar]

29. It is also what Republicans would do

Making funs of Obama's middle name and his last name being one letter off from Osama. Or not even making fun of it but trying to make something serious out of it.

[onenote]

30. I don't think it struck a nerve. It simply gave repubs and the media a distraction

which was not helpful.

[xchrom]

33. moveon is simply playing the game according to the rules the republick party created

from ronald reagan on.

every year it gets worse and worse because dems respond at the best -- wordy and weak sounding -- or not at all.

a good offense still beats a good defense.