Centrist Democratic group in Florida...doesn't want party activists, won't cave in to party unity.

[madfloridian]

This group is called the Florida Mainstream Democrats. They were set up to appeal to the voters in rural North Florida who are mostly more conservative than elsewhere in the state. I believe that their recent conference just brought forth more divisiveness for the party here, as if we did not have enough already. Florida has never been an activist friendly state, never. But they are now just coming out and saying it.

They seem to think that those whom they refer to as "party activists" (not ok) are not the same as established community leaders...which they think are ok. I am here to tell them that the two are not exclusive of one another...one can be an important part of the community and still be activist for various causes.

They are spouting the divisive rhetoric of the DLC about "activists", and it is going to hurt our party here. Here are some quotes from the conference this month...then some from one in 2005.

Democrat Conference Discusses Strategy

Boyd then told elected Democratic lawmakers attending the conference that they need to vote how their constituents would want them to and not give into pressure from party leadership simply to show unity on any issue.

The change in power in Washington was possible because of centrist candidates who show their independence, Boyd said. The Florida Mainstream Democrats pointed to a similar reason for their successes in state races.

He is saying actually that they should not worry about standing for things, they should not be partisan...just get along.

Saturday's conference made the case that Democrats have moved. The foundation of the Democrats' success in House races were candidates who had strong backgrounds and who didn't come across as partisan, said Steve Schale, who organized the Florida Democratic Party's House efforts.

As he helped recruit candidates, he tried to find people who weren't party activists.

"We were looking for people who had currency in their community for some other reason - they'd been on the city council, they'd been key business leaders, they'd been active one way or another in their community," Schale said.

Does Schale realize how arrogant that sounds? Or does he mean it to sound that way...sort of superior? :shrug:

But the worst is from their meeting in 2005, and I am convinced this is why our state party was so ineffective in getting that many wins this last November. They sound like a bunch of fraidy cats, afraid of the right wing, afraid of the changes in the party, afraid to offend anyone.

Florida Mainstream Democrats say the party must cater to the Panhandle to remain competitive.

Just a few snips from it.

The Mainstream Democrats is an offshoot of the party organized by Democratic legislators. It is striving to help Democrats broaden their appeal, especially in rural northern Florida, because the basic electoral math is starting to look tougher and tougher for Democrats. They're faring so poorly in northern Florida and many outlying suburban areas, that it's no longer possible for them to win statewide elections merely by remaining competitive in Tampa Bay and Central Florida and overwhelmingly winning southeast Florida.

"North Florida is going to win the next election," predicted former Attorney General Bob Butterworth, noting that his home county of Broward is steadily diminishing as a Democratic powerhouse.

If we can't win in the heavy population centers mentioned above...it is because we are effing trying to appeal to the voters in rural North Florida who ain't gonna vote for us anyway.

"We're here to get Bubba's vote," said state Sen. Steve Geller of Hallandale Beach, a founder of the Mainstream Democrats and one of those with a northeastern accent.

I have no comment on that.

Speakers said many voters have a wrong perception of their values, and said Republicans do a better job of marketing their message. Repeatedly, they called for the party to stress its "big tent" philosophy and embrace people who might support restricting abortions, say, or oppose gun control.

"One of the problems for so many of us whose faith is the essence of our being, is that we don't wear it on our sleeve.," said Sen. Bill Nelson.

Well, Bill Nelson, I have a few words for you...Iraq vote, soldiers dying, over 600,000 Iraqi deaths. Good Christian values. :shrug:

The Mainstream Democrats group is already antagonizing people.

I wonder why.

[Nikki Stone1]

1. How many "Bubbas" are there that this strategy is deemed valuable?

Though I guess every vote is crucial this time.

[aquart]

2. The votes were there. They weren't counted.

Adding conservatives won't help the count UNLESS THE VOTES ARE COUNTED.

[madfloridian]

3. North Florida is not that big in population.

This group is just trying to pull us to the right. If we spoke up as Democrats here in Florida instead of trying so hard to sound Republican....we could easily take most of the population centers.

But they don't know how to do it here. Florida Democrats have acted like Republicans so long they are not sure how to change.

[Nikki Stone1]

7. There's the perception that the nation has moved to the right

Hence this misguided effort

[madfloridian]

9. I don't think they really believe it....I think they use it as an excuse

to pull us to the right. I know some of these guys, they are very nice people...but they are basically Republicans. We essentially have a one party state.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. So it's not DLC based?

?

[madfloridian]

13. They have said they are DLC inspired. I have the quote somewhere.

One of our local Democrats at the national DNC convention said in 2000 that he was totally into the DLC, and if we did not want it they would stick it to us anyway.

It is a centrist group. They quote them...

http://www.fortreport.com/content/change.html

"The DLC has said, “The test for Democrats is to convince the voters that they will defend their country, share their values, and champion their economic interests.” Clearly, if we continue to lose two out of three we will never win again."

Remember the DLC has many members at local and state levels.

[Nikki Stone1]

69. This can't be good news. I hate this "centrist" crap that's really right wing

A true moderate I understand.

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Yes, but they've been saying this since 2000 and it's simply not true.

People may be pig ignorant because of the right-wing take-over of the media, but that will change once we get the Fairness Doctrine installed.

[Jim Sagle]

8. Of course they know how to do it. They're Republican agents. Losing is their job.

[magellan]

4. What they call "big tent philosophy" is really a betrayal of the left

They're happy to diss the "activists" on the left in favor of picking up Repug votes, even if it betrays basic Democratic Party principles. This is a crucial problem facing the Dem Party as a whole and it's really turning me off.

[madfloridian]

6. You got it. It's party-wide, nation-wide...and meant to piss us off.

Because if you don't have activists...active people who make waves, then you can do what you want to do without interference.

The DLC started it early on as a way to make supporters of Howard Dean be made irrelevant. They even had a meeting in 03 and said he was not fit to be president and could not win...a questionably legal thing to do since they are not a PAC at all and should not be advocating for or against candidates.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/62

I will never forget when I was called fringe. It was a shocker. I am one of the least fringe people anywhere.

[magellan]

15. I have nothing kind to say about the DLC

They've labeled us "activists" and "fringe" only because, like you say, we make noise. A noise that does not benefit their status quo in Washington which literally profits from propaganda and deceit.

But if say we were to wake up tomorrow and see the facts revealed to the nation, you can bet we'd find the majority of Americans are mainstream progressives just like us, not conservatives.

This country is left of the DLC. But they'll keep serving up candidates that force people to choose between inching to the right or voting Repug.

[madfloridian]

17. You are right. Most of us here ARE mainstream.

But they fund only centrist, dry up funds for others, and then when only a centrist is left in the race they claim they won.

And the fact that since 2003 they have been yelling about fringe activists should tell us they want to run things without interference.

Making fun of anti war by calling them fringe

We need to stop them from making us irrelevant.

[magellan]

24. Good journal entry, thank you for sharing it

Dean was right on with that speech.

When I first came to DU I was like most Americans: hadn't a clue about the different committees within the parties or that they even existed. (And admittedly I'm still foggy on some of them.) The DLC was the first one I learned about and it was a negative experience for reasons similar to yours.

The DLC carries water for the right every chance it gets. That should be a warning to all about their influence in the Democratic Party. So how do we stop them making us irrelevant -- effectively shifting the whole party to the right -- if most of America doesn't know that the DLC is just one faction presuming to speak for the whole party?

I'm really at a loss to answer that. We can certainly talk to others about it, enlighten them, but it really is an uphill battle once the impression is left. Holy cow, just seven years ago I was watching the protest at the WTO summit in Seattle and thinking all those people were a bunch of 'hippies'...and I was aligned with the Democratic Party! Now I understand...but so many others don't.

Do people have to come to understanding on their own, do you think? That's a very slow process. I'm hoping Dean and other progressives like Kucinich keep talking because people are listening...But I worry that the monied interests like the DLC will continue to hold the upper hand.

[madfloridian]

26. Dean I think has been hushed partially. I thought he might be.

Many of us did not want him to be chairman, but instead to stay as DFA chairman and be a SAKAL.

Now that term SAKAL was coined at the Liberal Oasis. They suggested Dean would do well at that. What does it mean?

Strategic Ass Kicker At Large.

See, you can't do that as chairman of the party..

On CNN the other day he said he wanted to be careful to only say things that were helpful to the congressional Democrats. That, I fear, means they told him to shut up.

[EFerrari]

34. I learned a new word tonight.

:)

[madfloridian]

35. SAKAL...I wish we had one now.

Many act like they are going to be, then they aren't.

[EFerrari]

36. Chin up, madfloridian. You never know when someone will get it right.

:)

[madfloridian]

37. But his voice has been hushed pretty well.

And we need all the voices we can get. The 08 canddates are being careful, the others don't have a voice right now in the media. And he as chair can't say much about anything at all or they jump his butt.

[EFerrari]

38. Maybe so, but who has really ever shut Howard up?

I don't think it's even possible. It'll be fine.

[PassingFair]

39. Feingold is doing pretty good....

And I have no doubt that Dean will be VERY vocal
in the near future.

[madfloridian]

41. I wish Feingold were running.

I really do.

[PassingFair]

43. You and me both, Mad.

We need a voice in the primaries.
Right now, Kucinich and MAYBE Obama
are our only progressives in the race.

[Zhade]

30. Polls repeatedly show your assumption to be true.

Most americans support progressive policies, even if they don't recognize them as such.

[Horse with no Name]

55. Exactly.

The truth of the matter...the DLC and the Republicans ARE the fringe because the people say it is so.
However...just as Republicans do (and there is NO difference between them and the DLC)...they think if they yell louder than we do that they will be believed.

[mmonk]

5. It's one of the reasons impeachment is needed.

The 08 election is not going to save this country or the democratic party.

[hedda_foil]

10. OMG, it's the Florida Liebermaniacs!

[madfloridian]

16. Ha ha, Hedda.

They do sound like him.
:hi:

[Cha]

19. Yeah, my first thought was

lieberman's betrayal but then I decided to scratch his name and go with what I did write. :hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

33. I was just thinking... now we know where he'll retire when

this term is up.

Because he sure as hell won't be re-elected again.

[flyarm]

12. we have been putting up with the B.S. philosophy in pinellas for a very long time!!

i have quit the oldest womens dem club in the US here because the lady they put in as pres i am 100% sure is a repub infiltraitor...

her first opening remarks last year was slamming dems..saying dems are no better than rethugs,..i got up and walked out..and haven't gone back..

fuck these centerists..they have gotten no one elected!..or elected that counted..because they refused to look into voting machine fraud..refused to even listen to anything about the damn machines!!

I live in 2 states..and i can tell you ..this dem party here is a damn mess!! and i believe there are so many rethug infiltraitors ..who just do everything in their power to stop the dems from getting anything done..or to gain any control...remember this is jebbies state..and just because he isn't governor now..do not believe he isn't still running Crist...

I am so sick of the middle of the roaders..with the dem party here..and i swore it was a mandate from Tallahassee that told those who are SEC chairs snd DEC chairs to ignore the voting machine problems..that were brought out to discussion at every meeting and the conversations were immediately shut down..

in fact those who were the power brokers would insult those people working for reform of these damn machines...

and don't even have me go into the DLC and ole Rahmn...and how he screwed our great candidates..and put his own in..even someone who changed his registration from rethug to dem 6 weeks before the primary to run against a great dem woman!!

the dem party here ( in fla)have run away many great dems..

the only time we see union people is during a presidential election cycle..they are all disgusted!!

fly

[Cha]

20. Imagine how long a repuke club

would put up with a Dem "infiltrator". Does that even happen?

[madfloridian]

21. You have righteous indignation. Here our Dems think like Republicans.

Remember Charles Canady? He used to be a Democrat. A pain in the neck but a Democrat. He switched over as did many many others. I could name more, but it would not solve the issue.

They simply think like Republicans. Our county party considers us interlopers. They do NOT like Dean nor do they like his 50 state plan. And they openly say so.

I could go on...but it won't help. Our county chair even did an interview in the paper blaming the Clinton impeachment thing for our losses here. That is a convenient out for a group of people so used to acting like the other party.

There is no excuse. This used to be a state that was truly Democratic in most areas.

[madfloridian]

14. They thought about secret meetings....but the Sunshine Law got in the way.

This group is NOT the Florida Democratic Party...but they think they are. That is a dangerous thing.

http://www.stpetetimes.com/2005/02/15/State/Democrats_reconsider_.shtml

"Florida Mainstream Democrats planned a private discussion of the state party's future, but doing so could put some members in violation of a Senate rule."

"TALLAHASSEE - It was to have been a candid discussion of the Democrats' future in Florida - behind closed doors.

But concerns by six state senators prompted the Florida Mainstream Democrats to decide Monday to hold their inaugural meeting in public this Saturday.

Some of the senators said a private meeting would violate a Senate rule, though the group's chairman, Sen. Steven Geller of Hallandale Beach, questioned that. But the potential for bad publicity was enough to persuade him to open the meeting, he said.

The rule, which senators ratified in November, says: "All meetings at which legislative business is discussed between more than two members of the Legislature shall be open to the public." The only exceptions involve security and terrorism, and discussions on the Senate floor during legislative sessions"

[Cha]

18. Recommended!

It's our party, too. They can't hijack it and twist it around to appeal to the freakin' republicons. And anybody who still thinks bush is their leader is a Freak.

[xchrom]

22. i have to recommend this thread.

this is the kind of thing that kill the democratic party -- why can't democrats talk left wing politics s bubba can understand it instead of adopting bubba's lethal idea of politics?

community first, workers first, policies that support the poor -- cause duh -- the rich made it already, free speech, end racism, cause it hurts the community, -- let mr and mrs bubba know they will thrive under democratic leadership and not just get by.

[madfloridian]

23. You are right, and it could be the purpose.

They really don't want people in the party who want them to speak up and take stances. Here the other day someone said there had not been people like me in the party for long....which of course is just not true. Democrats have forever had people like me and you, and others who speak out.

Read my response...and thanks for the recommend. Florida will be hurt by this bunch.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1055

Here's part of it...

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

To get more money by not taking difficult stands. And here they have a whole bunch of folks pushing them to stand up for things. I think it is serious.

[FogerRox]

25. KNR

Ahw phooey.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Chamber of Commerce Democrats.

As bad as Republicans.

[Zhade]

28. These ironically misnamed "Mainstream Dems' don't believe in participatory democracy.

I mean, in the end, that's what it comes down to.

[madfloridian]

68. Their kind of thinking is what led to Edwards' blogger resigning today.

There was probably huge pressure brought to bear on him by our party. He did not fire them, but Amanda resigned today to fight them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3109869

This letting the right control us stuff.

[Kixel]

31. No activists=no passion

I don't agree with everyone under the big tent, but I do think that it's important to hear everyone's views. Some of the folks I disagree with most often are some of the ones who can inspire me the most when actually acting on my beliefs. These folks are cracked if they think they will sustain the excitement of the Democratic party with out those on the "Fringe".

Sounds like ripe pickings for an independent party in that neck of the woods...

[madfloridian]

32. Oh, wow, I missed this quote...it is almost unbelievable from a Democrat.

From the 2005 article:

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/20/news_pf/State/Democratic_group_puts.shtml

Barney Bishop, president of Associated Industries of Florida, warned that Democratic candidates need to do a better recruiting job if they want Florida businesses to contribute to more Democratic candidates. Too often, he said, candidates are picked by liberal activists from local party organizations.

"If the Democratic Party is only going to be unions and teachers and left wingers you ain't going to be the majority part ever again," Bishop said.

Good Lord, that is just outrageous. I knew there was an attitude toward new active people, even in the county party, but I had no clue it was this bad.

The centrist Dems have done a good job of nearly destroying the use of the word "activist." Just like the right wing did to "liberal."

The DLC started that in 2003. It stuck.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/62

[PassingFair]

40. Jeebus! I hope this crap isn't SPREADING!

I KNOW it HURTS, but PLEASE keep those
INSECTS IN FLORIDA!!!!!


:evilgrin:

[BlooInBloo]

42. (shrug) Who cares? We've shown we don't need to pander to the South in order to win...

... and if at any point Southerners want to be reasonable and moral, we'll be here. Or not - we really don't need them.

[PassingFair]

44. I disagree -- I think statistically we DO need the south.

And ethically we need the south.

We need outreach, not "WHO CARES?" or (SHRUGS)

We need more MADFLORIDIANS!

[BlooInBloo]

46. Apparently we disagree.

[madfloridian]

48. Gee....how sweet. Plan is rebuilding in the South while....

concentrating on winning in the west. There's an article from US News called New Map out West telling more about it.

Working in the South but not depending on them.

Oh, by sweet I meant your comment. :hug:

[madfloridian]

45. The plan is westward ho, while building on the ground in the South.

Dean has made it clear that 4 western states will let them take the 08 race with needing Florida for now. Not ignoring the South, but concentrating elsewhere while rebuilding. Florida is firmly in control of GOP hands, even though many of us are quite sensible and open-minded.

I blame it on the catering to the vast number of Southern Baptist churches here. There are huge numbers, one of the largest concentrations.

[BlooInBloo]

47. Yup - either in your sugarcoated language, or my plain language.

[PassingFair]

49. They had to STEAL it from Florida in '00

A statewide recount would have given the race to Gore, right?

Why discount Florida now that Jebby is gone?

[madfloridian]

50. Not discounting...just not depending on.

Concentrating on 4 western states that will equal Florida. Actually since Gore...there has been almost a coup here in all the state offices. We won't really know just how damaging Jeb was for a long time.

It is like the Dems are hogtied here, even by their own party...or parts of it.

[PassingFair]

51. Well with he and Harris out....

maybe votes will begin to count for something again.

What do you think of Crist?

[madfloridian]

52. The ones after Harris are just as bad.

Crist is ok, but he has a big battle on his hands. See, in Florida the governor and Sec of State control the elections without legislative oversight.

[clyrc]

53. What a nightmare,

but so typical of North Florida I'm not surprised. Some of the "Democrats" in North Florida are so bad I took to calling them Me-Crats. I'm not even sure they really had any allegiance to any party, they were so busy promoting themselves and licking the boots of ANYONE in power...ugh what awful memories this brings back!

[madfloridian]

54. Hi there.

You know all the ins and outs. Hey without being specific....I happen to know that at least one county Dem party supported the Republican openly. How about that?

You might know what I am talking about. :evilgrin:

People don't believe me about Florida Dems usually.

[Doondoo]

56. bump

[JCMach1]

57. The MEcrats rear their ugly head- I have had way too much

experience with these characters in North Florida.

These are people who are basically Democrats in name only. They see nothing wrong with collaborating with Republican legislators who the proceed to stab the people in the back in Tallahassee.

Rod Smith belonged in this category as do a number of other people who will remain nameless at this time...

But damn them all to hell.


The local office-holders (Democrats) in the country I lived in were/are/might as well be Repugs. They were completely pro-development and big business. There is one candidate in particular who I will post a piece on when she announces for the Florida Legislature as a Democrat. She is a horrific piece of work!

[madfloridian]

60. I remember that well.

I remember calling the state party and getting a bunch of hooey. I said do you guys actually approve of the DECs supporting Republicans...all I got was well maam...we try not to interfere.

Well, I also got the runaround. I think that really opened my eyes about my state.

Sometime I will tell you what has gone on in MY county...

[JCMach1]

71. I am sure that your county stinks as much as mine

The only time I EVER vote Republican is the occasional local race where I know that the Dem. is really a Repug in sheep's clothing. It happens way too often in Florida.

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Are you suggesting that elected officials should disregard the wishes of their constituents?

Perhaps you would rather have legislators who vote how party leaders want them to. Elected officals like that won't stay elected for long.

[madfloridian]

59. Do you think I meant that?

No, I don't think you believe I meant that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. So, you agree with this statement?

"Boyd then told elected Democratic lawmakers attending the conference that they need to vote how their constituents would want them to and not give into pressure from party leadership simply to show unity on any issue."

[madfloridian]

63. No, not always.

Not when the constituents might be ones who are extreme. I could give a lot of examples. Right now I am thinking about the religious communities who are not necessarily majority for a lawmaker...but who are making the loudest noise.

Remember Bill Donohue's threat last week to destroy John Edwards? He said the Catholics, Jews, and Baptists would band together and use media like the NYT to destroy him.

I can think of lawmakers right now who need to stand up for what is right to save our country from extremists....not give in to those who think abortion and gays are the only issues.

So, my answer is no...a lawmaker should not always stand with his constiuents if they are taking extreme positions.

Now, I know how the DLC supporters work here, you will turn this to call me extreme. But you very well know I am not. And deep down you know I am right.

A small group of men sitting in offices, getting loads of money from corporations...for years have told candidates they wouldn't get money if they did not toe the line of the group.

They even had a meeting to tell the press that Dean would not be president.

A small group of men took over this party, and to avoid giving it back they have destroyed the word "activist". Just like the right wing destroyed the word "liberal."

[wyldwolf]

62. Sounds like a great group. Groups like this should form in other states.

[madfloridian]

64. They are forming in other states. I leave it to others to write about their own state.

They are in other states under various names.

[madfloridian]

65. This is why our Democrats are not saying the words...out of Iraq.

Because for so long they have been "trained" to take the very center to please all instead of actually taking a stand. To make it all about winnning and less about being right.

Glenn Greenwald looks at all sides of this today at his blog.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/02/giving-democrats-pass-on-ending-war.html

[me b zola]

66. We must take back our party...

...if we ever hope to see representative government again.



Excellent post/thread, recommended.

[madfloridian]

67. They want to be big tent for the Christians and Republicans....

but they don't really care to have activists, unions, or average people.

That is how they are moving the whole party and country to the right. It is happening in other countries....that religious pull to the right.

[Nikki Stone1]

70. Yeah, a Democratic party for everyone but Democrats

...

[benEzra]

72. They are right on the gun issue, at least...

and the national party is currently learning that lesson as well, after a decade of propping up the "Dems'll-take-yer-guns" meme. Repubs would still control the Senate were it not for the Webb and Tester wins in November (both of whom won in heavily pro-gun states), and Webb is anything BUT a "repub lite."

The ban-more-guns message is a LOSER in Florida, and it has cost the party dearly there. (FWIW, I'm a former resident of the panhandle.)

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)