Democrats show unity for habeas corpus, for the Webb amendment, and what are DUers posting about?

[jpgray]

How they should be written off for a vote on the MoveOn ad, which, while deplorable and unnecessary, has no practical effect, not on anything resembling the scale of those two other votes. Are votes concerning crucial policy equivalent to mostly PR and image-based symbolic votes? Is there a way to view the two for what they are while still keeping practical effect in perspective? Or should all wrongheaded votes receive the same volume of reaction, however trivial the actual impact of the specific vote is? The MoveOn vote assuredly has an impact, and it's a bad vote, but should we attempt to keep the two in perspective, or should we keep the level of condemnation high for -any- bad vote regardless of its immediate practical effect?

[spanone]

1. i believe they call it 'salt in the wound'

[jpgray]

4. So no one mistakes me, that MoveOn vote is fucking offensive

[truebrit71]

13. That's where we disagree. I think the MoveOn ad was spot on...and the condemnation of the ad

by rethuglicans and their spineless gutless Democratic counterparts on the other side of the aisle goes a long way to describe what's so wrong about this system.

The Dems were cowed into submission by the threat of being tarred with the 'you don't support the troops' mantra which rightfully belongs with the rethuglicans and their votes against the Webb deal.

Understand something here, my personal feeling of anger and betrayal is that even in the SMALLEST most USELESS instance of standing up to the rethuglicans, the elected Dems caved AGAIN. On this, tiny piece of electioneering fluff...they folded...Why in the world would ANYONE expect them to do anything different when it comes to things like War funding, contempt of congress votes or wire-tapping?

Answer, there is none.

A little mouse went "BOO!" and the scared little Dems screamed and ran away...

Pathetic.

THAT's why it's such a big deal to me.

[jpgray]

14. Note I said that the "vote" on the ad was offensive. Not the ad itself

[truebrit71]

15. Ah...well ignore the first part of my post above where I disagreed with what I "thought" you said...

...carry on!!

[jpgray]

16. To answer your post then, they -didn't- cave on two very important issues

By your logic, because they cave on this "smaller" issue as you describe them, it's indicative they would cave on the larger ones. They didn't in the above cases. Does this throw a wrench in your reasoning, or how do you explain the unified habeas corpus / troop leave vote?

[truebrit71]

18. They voted to continue wire-tapping though right?

They also gave Lt AWOL all the money he wanted for his war as well, correct?

How are those subpoenas working out...

See what I'm driving at?

They're just not getting it done...

[onenote]

2. I'm disgusted over the Cornyn amendment vote, but not writing anyone off

More Democrats should've shown some spine on this, imo. From a constitituional standpoint, I find it highly offensive that the government would pass a resolution condemning the moveon ad based on its content. I further am disgusted by the capitulation in efforts to single out one organization and one ad for condemnation when there are plenty of offensive political ads out there.

That being said, its not going to change my support for Democratic candidates, including my own Senator Webb, who will be hearing from me with regard to his decision to support the amendment.

[ClassWarrior]

3. Agreed. However, we shouldn't underestimate its value...

...in putting these Senators' feet to the fire, to essentially "whip" them into line. Use this to let 'em know that this whole Iraq thing IS personal. Ain't nothin' wrong with that.

NGU.

[Trisket-Bisket]

5. No political acumen.

Or maybe self righteous PC oneupmanship. Seems all the rage lately.

[jpgray]

6. To be clear, I think it's more a -disdain- for what is called political acumen

People care about this stuff, and saying it has little practical effect (it doesn't) obviously doesn't make that go away. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[bryant69]

9. I don't knwo what you are referring to - PC oneupmenship?

For the record Political Correctness is a club used by Conservatives to attack Liberal values - when liberals use the term, it's a bit disconcerting.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[CT_Progressive]

7. MoveOn.org should thank the Republicans for the free advertising

MoveOn.org is now a household name thanks to the Republicans.

This was a classic bait and swtich, and they fell for it.

Bravo, MoveOn.org! Kudos!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. A lot of people like to be outraged.... it's a waste of energy when it doesn't lead to anything.

[yewberry]

10. I know which one I care more about.

If your senator is on this list, please consider contacting them and sharing your opinion of their unconstitutional votes.

Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Not Voting - 1
Chambliss (R-GA)

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. US Constitution, Section 9

[EFerrari]

11. Sure but symbols matter. Rhetoric matters. n/t

[jpgray]

12. They absolutely do, but are we keeping things in perspective?

Or is this offensive as part of a broader pattern of unnecessary surrender on symbolic issues so that it becomes a more serious issue?

[EFerrari]

22. I don't know. It's a long standing debate I'm having

between me and me and the world.

The right wing has so captured our conversation, we can barely talk any more, let alone think and have a rational national discourse. :shrug:

[NoPasaran]

17. On the plus side

At least it's a fresh outrage topic. I think we were all sick of taser boy.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. That's the way it always is everywhere...

the amount of time spent discussing an issue is inversely proportional to its ultimate importance.

As immutable a law as how traffic expands to fill a new road-- the truth is that nature hates some vacuums more than others.

Fear not, though, the nutters who take that sort of thing seriously rarely can find the right door to get in and cause real trouble.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. welcome to hata central, dude.

[madfloridian]

21. Can you say Joe McCarthy?

I am old enough to remember his efforts to squelch free speech.

Our party sold us out today.

[hisownpetard]

23. You're absolutely right. And to tell you the truth, I am still a bit shocked that

they did. I know, I know, I should know better. But still, it's hard to believe.


Edit:typo

[jpgray]

24. You're comparing this vote to blacklisting, ruined lives, restriction of travel privileges, etc.?

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.