how do families make it (financially)

[frankenforpres]

I have a lot of student loan debt, but my monthly income is pretty good,my wife works (no kids), and i am NOT saving a lot of money. so i am wondering how a family making like $50k a year can have any savings at all. how do you save for retirement, a down payment, college?

What am i missing here?

let me maybe be more clear. combined with my wife, we make well above the median income, we dont go out that much, we dont live extravagantly and i dont see how i could afford a good day care, save for college, save for a down payment etc etc


how do others do it?

[lligrd]

1. Saving?? Americans?? LOL That Is Rich

They weren't saving, they were taking 2nds out on their mortgages and shopping like their pResident told them to do.

[frankenforpres]

2. valid point

doesnt bode well for the economy or those individuals now that credit will be harder to come by

[melody]

19. Who are "they"? Nearly everyone I know has substantial savings

What biased crap.

[lligrd]

21. "They" Are Americans In General

and I think the statistics show I'm right. Glad to know you are not one of those but I really wouldn't expect a DUer to be one. If I was talking about DUers, I would have said "we".

[melody]

31. It's an inaccurate generalization

Americans in general are not wealthy. Most Americans are living hand to mouth. It's
the decided minority living in McMansions that are mortgaged to the hilt.

[lligrd]

33. One Of Us Is Living In A Rose Colored America

and it isn't me. But I sure don't want to burst your fantasy.

[melody]

38. You must know a lot of spendy rich people lol

You must know a lot of spendy rich people living in McMansions. The only people I know are hoarding everything they have.

[Marrah_G]

45. I have a couple questions

Are you a two income couple? Family income? Your general age group? Minor children living with you? And how expensive an area do you live in?

[dropkickpa]

26. Really?

Damn, just about no one I know has any sort of savings.

[melody]

32. Must be a difference in local culture

In southern California, perhaps we're more conscious of the need to live frugally ... and
one would have thought the opposite was the case.

[lligrd]

34. Hey, I Am In Southern California

and I know many who carry a great deal of debt and little savings. Do you consider frugality having a Hummer and 2 other SUVs in the driveway? Why are you taking this personally?

[melody]

39. I take it personally because I'm an American - stereotypes of anyone bother me, however

I hate wingnuts people talking in gross generalizations about the French and Germans
and I hate it equally when people bash Americans. It's not fair and it's every bit
as biased and blind as any other form of prejudice.

If you're in California, you live among rich people in McMansions. I'm down here with
the working stiffs. My neighbor sold both her cars and is cooking for three families at home
in order to put away money for the future.

[frankenforpres]

41. melody, misunderstanding

i think the initial response to my question viewed it as me asking "how do people not making a lot, seem to have all this stuff" and if that was the understanding of the question, the poster made a valid response


your paragraph about selling cars to get by is an answer to my question, simply taking the question at face value. both responses are enlightening. i dont think any harm was meant by saying "they," the poster didnt mean all americans, just those who are spending a lot, or seem to be, without a high income.

[dropkickpa]

37. I don't think it's that you're more conscious at all

I DO think it's a matter of local climate. In SoCal, you don't have winter to deal with. Gas bills of $400+/month for 4 months of the year. Wear and tear on vehicles is HUGE compared to SoCal due to potholes, snow, ice, cold, steep terrain, and road salt. The need for 2 totally separate wardrobes. In Pittsburgh, the cost of owning/renting property is much lower than in SoCal, but incomes are much lower (the exact same job that I have earns 2x as much in SoCal as here). Some food costs are lower in SoCal, especially in winter. I have to buy a snow shovel, sidewalk salt, etc. The majority of homes within the city of Pittsburgh are 75+ years old, the upkeep of which adds to total expenditures.

Most of the people I know live VERY frugally, taking public transit, clipping coupons, shopping mostly sales, stretching out every dollar.

[melody]

40. I live in the high desert -- 110 degrees in the summer

Our monthly electric bill (and this is AFTER a green audit) is $300 a month.

I have land in Washington and frequently go back and forth to family members in
Texas. I've never seen higher food prices than in California.

Oh, and my house is 102 years old. :)

I do think there's a California consciousness about conserving. We tend to carry
that over into living frugally. I think that may be one reason the nutjobs hate
us so much.

[dropkickpa]

42. You're right

Everyone in California is much more conscious of the need to live frugally. Everyone else in the US is just a spendthrift.:eyes:

[haele]

58. Even in SoCal, there's a wild range in economies and consciousness-

There's city economies and consciousnesses, country economies and consciousnesses, professionals, immigrants (Chaldean communities, Filipino communities, Somali communities) and a whole range in between. I currently live in San Diego. I used to live in El Cajon, Port Hueneme, and Lakeside - coastal and "inner valley" communities. I know people who live in Anza Borrego, Lancaster, Pine Valley, Big Bear...
They're almost little micro-economies in each community. A family living on $50K from a Chaldean community that works in their neighborhood in Lakeside can live much more economically sustainable than the same size family of 1st generation San Diegans making the same amount living in, say, Hillcrest district- which is only 25 miles away.

An area's cost of living and the family's income make about 2/3rd's of the equation of spending and saving for their future.
The other third is made up of situational issues - family health/disability, generational issues (will there be an inheritance? Do grandparents "help out" if there's a family money problem?), cultural issues (is the family expected to participate with a greater community?), work/income security (self - employed, remittance, investments or retirement, contract or customer based work?). Also, has the family moved around or had to spend money on some sort of emergency situation that they could otherwise have saved? Do they have to commute to work?
For example:
The main reason that three and a half years ago we spent half our savings to move was because my job changed and I could no longer carpool to work - we balanced the cost to move from our savings and the slightly (at that time)increased cost of living in the city against the extra $400 a month plus wear and tear on our only vehicle for me to drive to work. At the time, it evened out, but rents - even the one year lease we have - have increased and we are now seeing a $200 a month deficit from where we were three years ago - even after the "cost of living" wage increases. Inflation is killing us. Were we being frivolous and unwise to move at the time we did? How could we have "budgeted better" or conserved more moving from a crappy upstairs apartment to a small rental house that catches ocean breezes with a backyard that is now a veggie garden to supplement our food bills? I'm tired of hearing from those who are lucky that their situation enables them to both work hard and succeed tell me that my equally hard work and lack of success is because I'm somehow lazy or ignorant in my choice and/or lifestyle.

Sigh - I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at the system that favors those who are lucky in their family or other connections - or just plain lucky.

You sound as if you are in a position where you have been fortunate - especially if you still have savings. Others, no matter how conservation conscious they are with money and resources, just have to keep on trying catch the break that enables them to be able to start saving. Us - I guess we'll have to wait until either we get an inheritance or if some miracle happens and the teenager gets her act together and is able to work at a halfway decent job to help out with the family finances - or at least, her costs in the clothes she'd actually wear, her "personal projects" and the otherwise wasteful food she insists on eating.

Haele

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. National statistics do show that there is a negative savings

in the US, first time since the depresion

[pitohui]

53. southern californians can't live frugally if they want to buy a house

the cost of a small house is more than the median income

"living frugally" and saving a few pennies a week on groceries will not pay for the $660K bungalow!

if someone in socal has savings, they are not earning the median family income (total wages of $54K for all adults in the home), they are in the higher tier of income compared to the nation at large

i don't think people in socal even have a clue what "real" people get as wages, they probably read median family income as EACH half of the couple having their OWN $54K wage

[Marrah_G]

44. I hope you are grateful for that

I have all the best wishes in the world for those people who are doing well, just remember that many of us do struggle everyday with a cost of living that is rising far quicker then our incomes.

[petronius]

56. I haven't seen recent statistics, but just a few years ago it was reported

that Americans on average had a negative savings rate. It's not everyone, of course - my wife and I max out our annual IRA contributions at a minimum - but I know a lot of people making decent money who aren't saving a penny...

[pnwmom]

3. When we first started out, we pretended we had only one income.

(The higher one.) The second income, we saved till our first baby was born a few years later. So when I stopped working, we were used to not having my income. (Plus, my husband's had grown in the meantime. The raises we added to the nest egg.)

We bought appliances at chip and dent sales, furniture at used furniture stores or warehouse sales, food with coupons, etc. We bought subcompact used cars and drove them into the ground. We didn't take vacations except to stay with family every year or two.

It was a BIG deal when we bought our 19 inch TV set.

Fast forward -- a young couple we know in a high cost area in CA is making about 60K and managing to save almost 30% of their income. Except for their rent, which is unavoidably high, they live very frugally. They don't know how they'll be able to ever buy a house but I'm sure they will be . . . maybe not in their area, however.

[frankenforpres]

5. we try one income too

almost can do it, but taxes (fed, state, med ss) make us miss by a little. i wouldnt mind paying taxes so much if it wasnt mostly for bombs and war, or if it was for universal health care. Maybe if i get any return, in retrospect one income might be enough. the $900 a month for student loans is a little rough, but it was worth it (i think)

[pnwmom]

15. $900 a month is a big extra expense. That's tough.

My husband was teaching, so he had his loan forgiven, a little at a time.

Here's one thing we kept in mind -- every dollar you save is equivalent to earning money -- without having to pay taxes on it. So saved money accumulates faster than earned money.

And when you have kids, don't worry that they have less STUFF than other kids. It's not the stuff that will keep them happy -- it's knowing that their parents love them and enjoy being with them. That's really the truth. (Of course, it helps if you don't live in a neighborhood where everyone else has more than you do. One of my sisters has been in that situation and it's not fun.)

[phylny]

18. We did the exact same thing.

In fact, I went back to school when our youngest was 18 months old for a second bachelor's degree and a masters. It took six years part-time, and it was hard paying tuition on one salary, but we did it, and it has paid off now since I am in a career with terrific demand and a shortage of workers.

We also didn't buy new cars all the time - we ran ours into the ground as well. All car and home maintenance was done by us, and we shopped garage sales for clothes when the girls were little. Of course having three girls, we had lots of hand-me-downs.

Times were a bit different, since we were married 26 years ago and our oldest will be 22 this year, but we did it.

My husband works for a large "evil" corporation, which is unpopular amongst most members here, but he's always made a decent salary, we've always had medical, dental (including some help with braces), and optical insurance of some sort. They match his donation to his 401K up to a generous amount, and we will have a pension plus a savings plan plus health insurance in retirement. He's stuck with them for 26 years, and has been fortunate (and I realize this) to have stayed with them through many down-sizings.

We work with our daughters now on helping them set themselves up financially so that they will hopefully have a similar future. There will most likely be no pensions, but they need to learn to live within or below their means if they want to sock money away. I hope they are able to do it in today's world.

[Emit]

4. We eat a lot of top ramen.

Seriously. We're on one income with 3 kids -- one on the verge of college and we're paying back school loans my SO incurred recently. I'm stressed. Our grocery bill increases every few months, even though our consumption hasn't changed significantly -- it's the cost of groceries. In the last five years, every utility and insurance bill has increased -- in the case of our power bill, it has almost doubled.

We don't eat out. We don't go out. Each kid gets one extra-curricular activity, and that's usually with some monetary assistance from grandparents. If it weren't for our extended family, we'd be worse off.

We made a decision to live on one income for a period of time when the kids were young -- but, in retrospect, it has hurt us tremendously financially. I will likely work until I die to make up for that sacrifice.

We'll fair better in the near future, as I will be returning to work next month, in a position commensurate in pay to when I left the workforce. Yay!

[frankenforpres]

6. utilities are expensive

i pay over $100 a month, and i have a one bedroom apartment and dont run the air that much

[physioex]

7. Complicated Question

Since you have been to collge, I am assuming you took atleast freshman level economics course. And we know the study of economics is making the most within the scarcity of resources, right?

Couple of things:

Go ahead and maximize your 401K and invest in mutual funds and bond funds.

Take care of your car do regular maintenace like oil changes, timing belts, air filters, etc. I drive a 15yo car that runs like it came of the assembly line because I keep up with the maintenace.

Rent a movie from the grocery store instead of going to the theater.

Take care of your health by eating healthy and exercising.


There are simple things that anyone can and should do and I/we could add a lots more to this list......

P.S. Don't forget to donate to your favorite charity regularly. Even if it is a small amout. :)

[frankenforpres]

9. funny you should say that

my ph D is in economics


i do those somewhat frugal things you write about, and im not saying at all that i am poor. i was poor as a child, so i know i am definitely lucky now. my question is that I am doing OK, but given income, it doesnt seam like i am doing as well as i thought i would. Which makes me really wonder how the average family makes it. i didnt ask about the poor, cause i know how my family saved, we didnt! there was no money to save, we were lucky to have the bills paid and electricity not go out (which it sometimes did).

"P.S. Don't forget to donate to your favorite charity regularly. Even if it is a small amout. :)"

does al frankens campaign count?

[trashcanistanista]

8. Two ways - well, maybe three.

Put off buying a house until you can put a huge down on your home so your payments are small aim for $1,000/mo. house payment. Put maybe 50% down. Get a good used car that's good with gas. With these two needs met at $50K a year you can go out, go on vacation, splurge once, and a while and save money. This is very different than how most people live. One other tip. Never use a credit card. Pay with cash and save up for what you want and buy it when you have the money. Always have an emergency fund of cash so you don't have to rely on credit cards for emergencies. How do you get there? Work a lot while you're young, live cheaply - sacrifice - so that when you are in your thirties and forties and above it is smooth sailing financially.

Right now you should be living in a studio apartment paying low rent and deposit 1/2 of your joint earnngs into a savings account. Start a retirement savings from work and contribute the max.

[frankenforpres]

10. smart about credit card

i think you are very right about that

sometimes i dont like to demonize credit card companies too much, because my credit cards helped me in college when my paycheck was a few days away. but i always pay it off monthly (which oddly enough makes me a deadbeat)


"Right now you should be living in a studio apartment paying low rent and deposit 1/2 of your joint earnngs into a savings account. Start a retirement savings from work and contribute the max."


this is good advice

[trashcanistanista]

12. I should add that most people don't

live like that. A lot of what you see is illusion. You go over someone's house and see the big house and fancy cars and it is all a front for appearances sake. Look at all the foreclosures. Most people are so brainwashed into keeping up and I think spend and shop to get pleasure because the financial debt in their lives makes them miserable. I know a lot of young people that work multiple jobs essentially just to keep up what they have and the spending is over the top. It's hard to carry large debt so regarding credit cards, if you get one and keep it open and use it once and a while to get a credit rating, it's fine. However, no one will ever turn you down for a home loan if you have cash to put down and cash in the bank.

[frankenforpres]

13. very scary

this housing collapse could be very bad, maybe even worse than the 90-91 recession if everyone has been living off credit


i hope it doesnt get bad, but you are right about the foreclosures

[emilyg]

11. Good advice.

[pitohui]

55. many people who follow that advice will never own their own home

people in london, manhattan, los angeles -- who put off buying until they could make a large down payment are now priced out of owning property forever

in some markets, the highly desirable ones, the prices rise faster than an honest person's income can

so if you rely on hard work and savings, you can rely on being a renter until you die

this advice is fine for low income areas or rural areas, it's poor advice for many popular urban areas though

[Iris]

14. careful. I was chastised for asking the same question.

on a thread about people in New Jersey making $56,000 and only being able to afford to insure their child (not themselves) through a state-funded program.

[frankenforpres]

23. why

seems like an important issue

[Mike03]

27. It's unfair that anyone chastised you

As the previous poster said, this IS an important issue. $56,000 used to be a lot of money, but we live in an inflated (and inflating) economy where that simply is not very much money anymore.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

16. me, myself and I

my only dependants are my two guinea pigs and a dog that periodically moves in. I really want children - but the smartest thing my parents ever did was waiting till their "peak earning years" to have children, so while my parents are old enough to be my grandparents it worked out for the best.

[Wiregrass Willie]

17. Think in terms of "net".

One small suggestion. Don't think of your income in terms of "gross" but "net". For instance you say $50,000. But you don't get that much as your income. Social Security takes 7.5% and taxes maybe another 10%. Possibly more.

A $50,000 "salary" results in "income" of less than (about) $42,000. THAT is your income. To think you have an income of $50,000 causes you problems to start with. Don't even "think" $50K :-)

Good luck.

[melody]

20. You don't take vacations, you learn to live small and frugally

My husband and I paid off our home and have a fairly decent chunk of change put away
for retirement. We also get sneered at by people who don't understand why we live in
such a dinky little house and drive a ten year old car. I prefer sleeping at night,
I tell them. lol

[earth mom]

22. We finally have a decent income coming in...but have accumulated debt from years

of living as the working poor. We are still living paycheck to paycheck because our money goes to the ever increasing monthly expenses like groceries, gas, utilities etc plus all those accumulated debts-which are not from credit cards. We have no savings and have put off house repairs for years and are hoping to use next years tax return to finally get some of the work done. If we want something, we have to save up for it. We went without a computer all summer until we finally had cobbled enough cash together to get the computer that we wanted. We economize where and when we can. We use the library heavily instead of buying books or renting videos. I cut everyones hair including the dogs' and shop at thrift stores, garage sales, on ebay or craigslist. When we need something new, I shop around to get the best deal, but really we don't buy all that much new stuff and rarely hit the mall. It would be nice to have some cash in a savings account. Or have enough to splurge and take that trip to Europe that I've always wanted to do.

With how fast this country is going to hell in a handbasket, what I really want to do is sell the house and everything we own and take the proceeds and move to Europe and forget this entire f-ed up country and rat race. But my husband wants to stay at his job to get his union pension in 10 years, even though I honestly don't think that union pension or social security will exist in 10 years given * & Cos evil and methodical destruction of the working class and middle class. If it was just up to me and I didn't have a family, I'd already be gone. That's how little hope I have for this country right now. That being said, I will still fight what's happening, even though it would be easier to flee it.


Sorry, but I really don't have much advice for you. Just a caution to buckle your seat belt, it's gonna be a bumpy ride!

[Lost4words]

24. You cant!They arent! We dont!

Your screwed before youve begun, I am sorry but thats the way I see it.

You should be very angry that your financial future was hijacked. By cheep labor politicians!

[MissB]

25. Honestly?

We're able to survive (and even somewhat thrive) because of a few bits of good luck and damned good timing.

First, dh went into engineering. Four years of college (paid by his parents, who have lived in the same house since he was in 1st grade) and then right into a big firm within the first few years of his career, where he has been for more than 20 years. He's carved a niche for himself in his particular field within his firm which has protected him and allowed his salary to increase steadily over the years.

Second, he purchased a house as soon as he could. He bought one in the late 80's with a reasonable downpayment. He bought our first house for $55k. It sold again two years ago for $480k, although we sold it before it hit that benchmark and "only" made $310k when we sold it four years ago.

By the time we were married, the mortgage was a mere $400 a month. He was making a great salary and was able to commit to putting the max in his 401k each year, which we've been militant about doing. Our investments come first, and then we get spending money. We take home a fair amount - our spending money is reasonable enough to live on as long as we don't go out to dinner every night, don't go to the movies more than three times a year and don't take anything more than camping vacations. We also own two used cars - fully paid for, and not one of them is less than 10 years old. One sits in the driveway all but maybe one day a week. We don't own a big screen tv, and our outside activities are relatively cheap (cross country skiing, camping, biking).

I used to work (engineering as well). About the time I had our kids, I figured out that the $1400 a month I was paying for child care just wasn't worth it. By the time I penciled in all the other costs of me working, it really wasn't worth it. Plus my youngest just never liked day care. So I haven't worked in a few years.

Still, living on one income isn't a bad thing for our family. We have college funds, investments, retirement savings and cash reserves. But we can do all that simply because of timing. Our income is now high and our expenses aren't.

If we were just starting out, there is no way we could be where we're at. Houses aren't selling for $55k. Starting salary in the same field doesn't get you a house in this area without some serious debt. I shake my head and wonder how young families survive.

[Breeze54]

28. Who said they are making it?

:shrug:

Last I heard, they were drowning!

[Mike03]

29. Difficult Question to Answer

So many factors contribute to the financial squeeze many families and individuals are experiencing right now. The U.S. has one of the worst savings rates in the industrialized world, but there is disagreement on why this is. Some analysts believe that Americans overspend, but I don't agree with this in general. Some may overspend, or over-borrow. One problem is that it has been too cheap and easy to borrow money for much of the past seven years. There was an illusion fostered by lenders that many people who truly could not afford to buy expensive homes could buy them. In addition, real wages dropped as groceries, gas, and all related transported products rose in cost, and while corporations profited, their costs are passed along to consumers like you and me.

The cost of living is rising, but the numbers are cooked so we are consistently told that there is no inflation, rising wages, low unemployment, etc... We are told this because our economy depends on our consumption. If we stop spending and start saving, our GDP will drop. But I have the feeling Americans are waking up to the hard reality and beginning to understand that we will have to truly live very conservatively for the foreseeable future, until the debt is worked out of the system.

[NMMNG]

30. Good question

I've never wanted children and one of the primary reasons is that I know I could never afford to support them. I have to work substantial OT or multiple jobs to keep myself afloat. I certainly couldn't manage the expense of a child (or children).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. 1. Pay cash 2. Don't buy things to "save" money.

We started saving for retirement about 14 years before retirement by projecting out what we would actually be making in retirement and living on that amount. Everything else went to retirement savings.

We paid off all of our interest bearing debt (except the mortgage).

We paid cash for anything that we wanted rather than absolutely needed (like a new water heater).

We don't buy anything on the basis of "save money, 1/2 off" sales and pretend that we "saved" money.

Worked for us. We're both retired. My wife at 57 with 20 years. Me, at 55 with 30 years.

We live comfortably on our retirement incomes, actually have more spendable income that we did before retirement, and don't juggle bills.

But, there were certain other elements, that in fairness, I should mention.

My wife was a state employee with an excellent pension plan.

I was a federal employee under the "old" (and much better) CSRS pension plan.

We chose not to have kids and have no other dependents.

We're both "readers" and our biggest entertainment expense is books and consider living in a nice place to read them a "vacation".

[AlCzervik]

36. we had to move, we both had student debt and we were both working

we could not buy any kind of a house where we lived in Ma. so we we sold out condo and moved to Texas where at the time living expenses were a lot cheaper, we finally paid off out student loans and eventually the credit cards but it was a very tight 8 years to get out of that debt. now we don't buy anything unless we have the cash, and when we go on vacation it's courtesy of frequent flier miles and hotel points. Now if one of us gets sick, well i'm sure things will be very different.

[Marrah_G]

43. We don't

No savings, no retirement. I survive week to week and struggle with every added expense that comes with having 3 teens. The 2 oldest are job hunting so they can take on some of their own expenses. College will come from grants and loans as I have nothing to contribute.

For note I am a single mother of 3 who makes about 40k a year and lives in South Eastern Mass.

Just taking my daughter to a march in DC was a huge sacrifice.


I hope to be able to put away money after my kids are out on their own and who knows, perhaps I will meet Mr. Right and have two incomes!

[frankenforpres]

50. im grew up in fall river ma

so i know the area

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. We have ONE income

and we save, and it is under the median

how do we do it?

First off, I find ways of saving money. These days I go to the swap meet and buy my veggies and fruit there. Oh you say, but, but... I spent ten bucks yesterday for our fruits and vegies for the week.

I also buy cheap cuts of meat.

I buy on sale

And I have the fiscal discipline to put away money every pay period

Oh we still buy books, and minis from time to time... but it can be done, if you really pay attention to things

I have significantly cut down on the number of days I go out for coffee and writing to the coffee shop. I make my coffee at home

Is it easy? No

Can it be done? Absolutely

And you know what... we have zero debt, the computer I am typing from, is new, we paid cash for it

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. Pay yourself first. pay automatically into a 401K plan. SOMEHOW you find the money to pay thebills

[knitter4democracy]

49. Tightwad Gazette. Get the book version.

There are good ideas in there on how to save money. I'm canning and dehydrating more this year than ever before to save us money later in the year. I'm planning meals every Sunday for the whole week, so we're less likely to eat out. Coupons and sales help me figure out what to make, and the crockpot gets used at least twice a week.

Buying in bulk helps sometimes, but the best thing to do is get a small notebook and start keeping track of prices for a few weeks to see where the cheapest place to get certain items is. I found I'd been shopping at a much more expensive store, so I only go there now for our favorites. That's cut down a ton on our grocery bill.

Oh, and look for bakery outlets for bread and such. The English muffins my kids love for breakfast are only $0.79 each there--cheaper than GFS's packages and anywhere else for the exact same Eng. muffins in the same packages. Big Lots often has great prices on cereals and such. I go there every few weeks and stock up on lunch stuff for Hubby (quick items he can gulp down at work) and such.

Fewer presents, eating out less, shopping at cheaper stores, and shopping at thrift or consignment shops really can cut down a budget.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Exactly.

1) tightwad gazette
2) your money or your life
3) wealth without risk (okay, the author's a bit of a charlatan, but he put me in the right frame of mind at a timely point in my life)

My three tips:
1) don't overinsure, don't buy insurance on kids and never use insurance as an investment
2) do the math regarding how much that new car will cost you. Include fuel, insurance, maintenance AND DEPRECIATION.
3) It isn't what you make, it's what you keep.

[PDenton]

51. cars and shaving advice

the typical car costs about 5,000-7,000 dollars a year in the total-cost-of-ownership. If you can get by without one, you should.

If you shave, consider either an inexpensive electric shaver (Braun makes some good ones- the PocketGo or Cruzr/Freestyle being decent, inexpensive models, also, low end Norelcos are decent, not quite as close as the Braun, but usaully the heads last a long time before going dull- and can sometimes be resharpened), or an old-fashioned double-edge safety razor (they are still made, google Merkur or Weishi). Derby blades are about 18 cents each when bought in bulk and are excellent blades, lasting about 3-5 shaves before they start to go dull. A puck of shaving soap costs about 1-2 dollars and lasts months, and a shaving brush is about 5-12 dollars and lasts about a decade. I've found the Mach 3's and Sensors are really too expensive, especially if you have a tough beard and don't like shaving with a dull blade (which sucks, honestly).

[pitohui]

52. we have almost exactly the median income and it's simple, you make choices

you cannot both raise a child and give her a decent education including college AND have retirement

you pick one

we made a choice to take care of ourselves, last we looked, the world is being harmed not for lack of children but by over population

the median income simply isn't enough to support a family, it's a terrible struggle to be enough to support a couple, especially as you age

accept that you can't have everything and decide what is important, your own life or pleasing some relative who nags you about "grandchildren"

[AuntPatsy]

54. In this day and age I honestly don't understand anyone could live even halfway

comfortable on 50 k a year, its a sad sad situation that most of America has found itself in when a small population feel that the are more entitled to reaping higher dividends by ensuring such in ignorant minimum wage stays where it is, my daughter's husband makes twenty dollars and hour and along with having to pay insurance, if we did not help them out they would barely be able to function and she is very thrifty with her cash flow, it breaks my heart for her and so many like her, at least she has us to help her out.

[kineneb]

59. savings won't matter if you get sick

'cause you will spend it all on medical care, until you have nothing left. Then you declare bankruptcy (the rules for the very poor have not changed), and start over. Only this time there will be no retirement, or any other goodies.

P.S. Two of us are living on Hubby's SSDI payment. Our "income" is $14K/yr. We qualify for the free USDA food giveaway.