Why General Sanches'z statements worry me

[nadinbrzezinski]

ok, like must I listened to the retired general and went... ok... I know why you could not say this back then but...

Then I went to sleep

And I was reminded of one major difference between the US military and other militaries around the world...

If these guys were in the military they would have been relieved of duty or court martialed....

An alarm went in my head...

If these guys were in the military...

Are we now having folks talking of a coup?

This is the kind of language that many militaries across history have spoken before coups, since they... the military, can do this better (insert the better here) than civilians.

The other ground for alarm was the distant echo to civilian betrayal of the noble military back in the 1930s (and other similar events across history)

So yes, I applaud him for making them... and telling us what he thinks... yet... a note of caution most be added folks, a note of caution...

[napi21]

1. I don't think you have to worry about a coup. This General, as many before him

is not able to be honest and speak his mind. You don't seem to understand, when these men wore the uniform, they are BOUND to support and obey the CIF!

[Glorfindel]

3. What's the CIF? Just curious

I thought the Nuremberg trials established once and for all that blind obedience to superiors is no excuse for atrocities. Maybe I missed something? The rules don't apply to AMERICAN military personnel because they are "BOUND to support and obey?" hmmm.....:scared:

[napi21]

17. Commander in Chief. al la Shrub! n/t

[TheDebbieDee]

18. CIF = Commander-in-Chief, that is *

Actually, I think the military oath requires the soldier to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.

[napi21]

21. Yes it does, but the laws of the Military demand that no one in uniform

say anything against the CIF. THAT'S why you never hear an active duty officer say the words against this admin that you hear from them after they retire!

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. As I said I know the game

they are not to speak ill of ANY officer appointed over them, unless it is a clearly demonstrable ilegal order.

In which case they have the leeway to say Sir with all due respect I refuse that order

They are also prevented to get invovled in ANY political event while in uniform while wearing the uniform

I know the game...

Extremely well

And in my view many of these officers should have refused orders regarding Iraq... such as gitomoizing Abu Ghraib

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. This is a military household so I understand the game

not support and obbey...

But obbey legal orders.

I know this is strange but NOT making political statements while in uniform is a no-no aroudn the world for good, and very valid reasons

That is why his words had a certain edge that none of the other ones have had... including Zinni, Clark and Batiste

[MadMaddie]

2. Hmm..interesting theory but let me throw in a wrench into your

sleeping dreams..

Cheney has placed Blackwater and other mercenary police type groups in positions of where they answer to no one. They went to NO and may have killed many people....they were never held accountable....

What if our military commanders see the action by Cheney and others as a bigger threat to American than Terrorist?

We now have several Generals who were removed because they refused to tow the political party line. What if the * Administration is intentional destroying the Military Leadership by forcing the good ones out so when and if they declare Martial Law the complicit military without real leaders says "Heil Herr *" joins with Haliburton and Mercernaries and become America's own Brownshirts?

No, I don't think the Military Coup you are talking about can happen with the weakend state our military is in....but combine a broken military and Blackwater who could say they could run the military better and you have a civil war in America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Oh I agree with you

the cleanup at upper levels, especially at flag and general levels is astounding

You also know sanches went from BGen to LtGen, didn't even stop at MajGen.

It was just a musing in my head

Hell, this is as much fun as playing read the tea leaves with the Kremlin...

;-(

But if they still have enough officers in place... and I am thinking Colonels, we may still see it. Coups are rarely carried out by the Flag and General Ranks anyway

[daninthemoon]

6. It's easy to see a whole lot of conspiracy theory type reasons why

it would be to the neocons advantage to dismantle/cripple the military and insert their own private merc army. It's also easy to see that they may have already tested the waters in NO. Riddle me this: IF the neocons deployed a massive number of blackwater brownshirts in America tomorrow, how long would it take for the US Military to get back here from their entrenchment in Iraq? For instance. Just sayin.:hide:
:yoiks:

[MadMaddie]

8. Whoo...I like Riddles!

Not only would our military women and men get back to America but....the one thing that seems to keep getting overlooked...is America is an extremley armed country...just sayin...with ya....

Yea, it's a conspiracy theory....but with this bunch in WA....every time we think that can't violate the Constitution any worse than they have they always find a way. They have managed to make Conspiracy theories into reality....

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Well that is becuase conspiratorial thinking is common

for criminal organizations

Just saying...

As to the well armed...

there are days I wonder

[MadMaddie]

10. That's all I am sayin.....they are sorely underestimating the

American Populace...

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Or we are over estimating it

That is just as valid of a question

[MadMaddie]

14. darn it when you are right...you are right...

[TheDoorbellRang]

31. Maybe they think we'd greet Blackwater mercs with flowers

I myself think a bouquet of lilies on the chest is always tasteful.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. The current regime has been, and still is, intent on removing the

talented and admirable leaders within the military. They see these men as severe threats to their dictatorship. They are correct.

[Kagemusha]

11. In all seriousness, you are proposing shutting up retired generals?

That we cannot allow these people once they are NOT serving officers with command over men in the active service of the People, for the defense and security of the nation, so that such criticism does not undermine the Bush administration?

What Constitution did servicemen die to protect again?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. No, did not say that

whatsoever, just that his choice of words was worrisome.

that is all

[Kagemusha]

19. If the words are not seditious, why do they worry you?

If you don't think they are, I think you should stop worrying, in my humble opinion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. The echoes from other periods of history and geographical locations

that is all

Alone, they would not worry me

But it is the pattern of language... and language and patterns matter

[Kagemusha]

22. No, guns and men matter. It's silly to grant free speech and then recoil in horror from it.

If we want generals muzzled in this country, let's say so - we have the right to say so. If we don't, and their opinions are not to be verboten, let's get out of the darned way and let them speak their honest opinions, since that is their right, supposedly, anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Echoes... it has nothing to do with muzzling people

if you cannot get it, not my fault... but the echoes are from both Vietnam and Germany... to be specific

The former led to an internal review... the latter got ugly.

[mitchtv]

12. My take? Sanchez is trying to avoid the inevitable

War Crimes Trials, of which he will play a prominant part.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Well of course, and to be specific for Abu Ghraib

but his choice of words perked up my ears

[pretzel4gore]

25. it's almost funny; the biggest story in our history is ....a no no...

hahaha. i love it. The pigmedia is sitting on the goldmine of all mothers...or is that vice versa? And the story has to be stuck away in the filler section. lol. It must be driving the mediawhores nutz! Even as sold out hireling pig traitors, the story still must loom biblical like in all them pinheads at cnn foxnews and the networks, not to mention the rest of the nudgewink press- whose very lives are forfeit if and when it all comes tumbling out, which it will, someday. 911 an inside job? That's hardly news to cynics like us, who knew in 2000 the busheviks were a mafia w/out the mafia's charm, or skill, or even biznesslike brutality; after all the mafia is outlaws (and exploiting bloodthirsty racist 1/2 wits like the bush support base, in defiance of pelosi liberal democratic majority, is hardly a difficult thing to do- in 1926 Sinclair Lewis published 'Babbitt' as a warning to the US ruling class to NEVER lose control of the 'red meat' republicans symbolized by George Babbitt, cuz them scented pretentious murderous greedfilled monkees are as common in history as the mobs who hanged Jesus
Fukk i hate these bastards

[HCE SuiGeneris]

26. a rant sharing pretty much all of my same sentiments

:applause:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2038381&mesg_id=2038507

[Ilsa]

27. A retired general on MSNBC this morning declared Sanchez's

comments are sour grapes. Said he was responsible (ultimately) for Abu Ghraib and has a book coming out. Said no one should pay attention.

Uh, yeah, whatever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Well the sour grapes I can see

he had the watch, and he may face a war crime trial someday... since he HAD the watch

But I still pay close attention to what they say.., and he is the first retired general to raise alarm bells inside of me

[pretzel4gore]

30. do loyal professional military men

who love the country, warts and all, and who see the 'warts' as mostly stupidity and greediness with the taxpaying public left in the dark as to dirty details involved etc- this question begs answer: If the 'war' against Iraq was motivated illegally by private rightwing interests, who also saw fit to defy the majority will in the 2k election and put a cheap crook like the youngster bush in the highest elected office in the land in what amounts to a coup d'etat, and furthermore having grown up with the brutal murder of JFK just one in a long line of similar crimes committed against the american people which remain highly suspicious in that the crimes seem to be benefitial only to the same type of gangsters who were in place to greedily exploit 911, for instance, and used the horror of 911 in order to stampede the nation into the Iraq mess in the first place; do such men not see the cost of ignoring the immorality intrinsic to such people as bush etc, generation after generation, on their own families, their own futures? Especially if the system allows them to get away with it, isn't the damage done to the nation's spirit a concern to them? Or are they really all a bunch of those chickenshit townsfolk like in the movie 'High Noon'?

[goclark]

29. He is writing a book

I heard one of the Media Mafia say it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Well that may explain it

and as much as I hate it, I may get it to look for that kind of language

Them readying of them tea leaves

[SergeyDovlatov]

33. not a chance.

I think americans are much more law-abiding than people of most of the other countries.
We should not worry about military coup.

I am much more worried about constant erosion of individual liberties and enchroachment of government power. See Patriot Act, Military Commissions act, etc