Since we're talking about "cackling," I'M bringing up MY linguistic pet peeve again

[Guaranteed]

"Village."

That word, in the way that it is used by virtually everyone, is racist and classist.

And I'm not referring to Greenwich Village and other proper names.

Whereas in the United States small residential areas are referred to as "towns," in poor countries, or even not-so-poor, but ethnic, areas in other countries, are referred to almost exclusively as "villages." Why? Why are they not referred to as "towns," like they are here in the U.S.?

Even POOR areas in the U.S. are not referred to as "villages," but as towns.

[seriousstan]

1. A village is a clustered human settlement, larger than a hamlet, but smaller than a town or city.

The distinction is not necessarily based on population, but on the relative powers granted to the different types of municipalities and correspondingly, different obligations to provide specific services to residents.

[Guaranteed]

7. Then why is it NEVER used to refer to such in the United States,

other than as a proper name?

When was the last time you called a small town in the United States a "village?"

[seriousstan]

13. It is very common in Ohio and many other States.

We have the village of Westerville near Columbus.

Google is your friend. It can help keep you from sounding somewhat foolish. There are villages damn near everywhere in the US.

[Blue_In_AK]

14. See my post below.

The last I checked Alaska was part of the United States. When Native Alaskans come into Anchorage, for instance, they speak very fondly and proudly of their villages back home. They never call it a town, unless they happen to live in one of the more "white" settlements like Nome or Barrow.

[Blue Diadem]

128. All the time, I live in one. Here's the wiki entry for Ohio's revised code defining village status.

It also includes the list of villages for the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_villages_in_Ohio

In the U.S. state of Ohio, a village is defined thusly by section 703.01(A) of the Ohio Revised Code:

Municipal corporations, which, at the last federal census, had a population of five thousand or more, or five thousand registered resident electors or resident voters as provided in section 703.011 of the Revised Code, are cities. All other municipal corporations are villages. Cities, which, at any federal census, have a population of less than five thousand, shall become villages. Villages, which, at any federal census, have a population of five thousand or more, shall become cities.

[uppityperson]

130. Aha, I see why people may have reacted negatively to your posting.

Never say never. That is a separate issue from "to village or not to village".

[gollygee]

195. There are quite a few villages in Michigan

here's one: http://www.pawpaw.net/

here's another: http://www.decaturmi.org/

here's another: http://www.carovillage.net/

yet another: http://www.bearlakemichigan.org/

another: http://www.villageofbrooklyn.com/

another: http://www.franklin.mi.us/

another: http://www.villageofmilford.org/1/village/index.asp

another: http://www.constantinemi.com/

http://www.spartami.org/

http://www.vil-manchester.org/

http://www.binghamfarms.org/

http://www.mattawanmi.com/

http://www.grandbeach.org/

http://www.villagebeverlyhills.com/

http://villageofbeulah.org/

http://www.elsie.org/

http://www.stcharlesmichigan.org/

http://www.vi.holly.mi.us/

That's a good start anyway.

[monktonman]

2. I grew up in the village of Lake Carmel

in the town of Kent, in New York state.
Believe my neighbors were not poor.

PS. are we talking about "cackling" again? Where? I want in.

[Redstone]

3. The fuck are you talking about? Those words have VERY specific meanings in the US:

For example, the TOWN I grew up in was named Lunenburg, referring to a specific geographical area. However, within those boundaries were two VILLAGES, being concentrations of houses, stores, and churches: the village of Lunenburg and the village of Gilman.

And it's that way EVERYWHERE in America.

I'm as sensitive to racism as the next guy (in fact, probably even more so, since I'm half American Indian and my wife is half African), but your allegations are complete, unalloyed, Simon-pure nonsense.

Though I'll grant you one thing: You have made, wthout a doubt, the SINGLE most far-reaching attempt to find racism where there is none that I've ever seen. EVER, and I've been around a long time.

Redstone

[KitchenWitch]

5. I live in the Village of Northwood within the City of Irvine

The city of Irvine is otherwise known as Master Planistan.

[Redstone]

15. I believe that. Boy, that OP is one of the most bizarre I've ever seen...I mean,

calling a village a village is racist?

Redstone

[KitchenWitch]

18. In my Village are many Beemers, Benzes and Lexus cars.

We are dirt ass po' here.

[Redstone]

24. Ah, so if you po, and them honkies calls you a village, they RACIST!

Redstone

[KitchenWitch]

40. Uh huh!

[foo_bar]

85. I was with you until this straw man with a patronizing dialect

The OP would have a stronger case if he presented evidence of any kind, but this lapse into mock ebonics seems to confirm his larger point about internalized racism. There might be a grain of linguo-semantic truth too: the word village is a remnant of the Roman (Empire's) "villa", while "town" comes from Gothic "tain" or Gaelic "tun" (depending on whom you believe).

A villa was originally an upper-class country house, though since its origins in Roman times the idea and function of a villa has evolved considerably. After the fall of the Republic, a villa became a small, fortified farming compound, gradually re-evolving through the Middle Ages into luxurious, upper-class country homes. In modern parlance it can refer to a specific type of detached suburban dwelling. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa>

One might argue that the American concept of "village" traces back to an imperial-feudal conceit, a special land for the ruling class to escape from the pressure of their own oppression (for instance "white flight" around US cities, but historically-generally fleeing from the working classes). But it's examined foremost through a lens of bourgeois nostalgia, not the aristocracy itself living in nondescript Greenwich, Kennebunk, the Hamptons. One could also argue that they're just words, with connotations that no longer matter, but that would be like denying gravity.

[scarletwoman]

90. Here's a fuller etymology of the word, "village":

village
c.1386, "inhabited place larger than a hamlet but smaller than a town," from O.Fr. village "houses and other buildings in a group" (usually smaller than a town), from L. villaticum "farmstead" (with outbuildings), noun use of neut. sing. of villaticus "having to do with a farmstead or villa," from villa "country house" (see villa).

From Online Etymology Dictionary
(my bold in the excerpt)

My reason for bolding those sections of the text is to emphasize the original rural and agricultural connotations of the word "village". It is this connection to farming and pastoral pursuits that distinguishes a village from a town -- these are not interchangeable terms. The Amish, for example, refer to their communities as villages -- a "town" is where they travel to for supplies that they cannot provide for themselves.

A village in a "poor" country is more often than not precisely that - a village in the sense of being a small rural, agrarian settlement.

sw

[Whisp]

36. I don't understand it at all either, but it made me cackle. nt

[Odin2005]

39. The OP wins the award for faux outrage, IMO

People turning some little thing into a great outrage based on some blinkered assumption based on some BS sociology or whatever are annoying.

[Guaranteed]

44. You act as if this is something I learned in a class.

No, it's something I noticed when I realized that every goddamned time I heard anyone refer to people that didn't live in the United States (particularly non-white people) if they weren't in a large city, they lived in a "village." Never a town.

It's become something I laugh about.

[Odin2005]

56. That's just because here in the US all small settlements came to be called "towns" in...

...common conversation despite a lot of those "towns" actually being villages. You are asking the wrong question based on "loaded" assumptions. The proper question would be "why did Americans come to call all small settlements towns."

[Guaranteed]

58. So you acknowledge the different usage.

Alright, I'll ask your question as well, then...

Why do we call those areas of other countries villages, while ours are towns?

Do you think that has any psychological/sociological effect on us?

[Odin2005]

65. I'll guess it is because the Puritans, Quaker's, etc. were from more urban backgrounds...

then the English population in general and thus they called thier settlements "towns" instead of "villages."

[skygazer]

99. Which isn't accurate either

Because there are plenty of villages in England and in New England where the Puritans landed.

But I hardly want to inject common sense in such a delightfully nutty thread. :rofl:

[Blue_In_AK]

4. I don't see that as a denigrating term at all.

Up here all the Alaska Native settlements are called villages by the Natives themselves, and the rest of us just follow suit. Nobody thinks anything of it.

Maybe Alaska's just different. :shrug:

See, e.g., http://www.kstrom.net/isk/maps/ak/alaska.html . Scroll down a ways and you'll see a listing of some of the villages.

[Guaranteed]

17. That's within the U.S., but it's referring to Native Alaskans'

settlements.

[Blue_In_AK]

22. But the Native Alaskans refer to them as villages themselves.

This isn't something that we, as Caucasians, have forced on them. They say things like "Out in my village we do such-and-such." They don't call them towns.

[Guaranteed]

42. They probably don't mind reinforcing the separation. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

You're probably right about that part. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Nope. My village is a village because our population is too small to be a city or a town.

We are called the "Village of Bourbonnais." It's right on the sign as you enter our "Village." I swear. It's true.

[Guaranteed]

9. Right- it gets used as a proper name.

But when other people refer to your area, do they say, "Hey, how is your village doing?"

No. They call it a town.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. No, they call it Bourbonnais. "Village" is not the proper name.

"Bourbonnais" is.

[Guaranteed]

35. You said it's on the sign.

My point is that I'm not getting caught up in official statements and classifications and proper names.

I'm talking about the everyday use of the word "village." It does not get used with reference to (apparently non-Alaskan) areas in the United States.

When people refer to our smaller residential areas, they call them "towns." They don't say "I'm going back to the village" (without a capital "V"). They say "I'm going back to town."

But you listen to any documentary or show on TV or the radio about a foreign country, and it's village-this and village-that. Nothing but villages around, it seems, once you leave the United States.

[Kagemusha]

8. Yes, when I see people referring to D.C. as "the Village", it's very classist.

In other words, it is highly disrespectful of the leaders of our national discourse. It is also very demeaning to whites in general.

I'm sorry my not minding that use of the term strikes people as therefore racist and classist.

[Guaranteed]

12. You keep bringing up proper names. That isn't an official proper

name, but it's a nickname. You had to capitalize it.

I'm talking about the lowercase use of the words "village" and "town."

Am I just blowing all of your minds or something? This seems unbelievably OBVIOUS to me- the distinction between small residential areas in the U.S. and the rest of world seems set very deeply in our minds.

The use of that word is a very big part of what makes us, unconsciously, believe that we are better than people of other countries.

[Kagemusha]

16. Er, shouldn't have mentioned the cackle if you meant that then..

Because the first thing in my mind was 'It Takes A Village'.

Sorry...

[Guaranteed]

20. "It Takes a Village"- and where was that phrase incorporated from

when Sen. Clinton used it?

[Redstone]

27. You just do NOT get it, do you? My advice: Cut your losses and give up. You're clearly

on the losing side here, and for a very simple reason: Your contention in your original post is specious.

Redstone

[Guaranteed]

38. Wow! This is really getting to you.

Good. I'm glad you're learning something.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Yup--I automatically assumed that was where the post was going.

Aw, but what do I know? I come from a place that's so small we all have to take turns being the village idiot.

[kelliebrat]

121. OMG That

Aw, but what do I know? I come from a place that's so small we all have to take turns being the village idiot.

made me spit coffee all over laptop

:spray:

:rofl: :rofl: :spray: :rofl:

[Redstone]

19. Yes, you're "blowing our minds," but it's because you're making NO sense whatsoever.

Redstone

[Guaranteed]

25. LOL. I realize it's difficult.

This is set very deeply in all of our minds. No one has taken kindly to it when I've mentioned it before.

[Redstone]

30. Well, maybe that ought to tell you something: You're wrong. A dumb idea does not get any less dumb,

just because you repeat it.

My advice, as a friend: Give it up. There's a damn good reason why nobody agrees with you.

Redstone

[Guaranteed]

37. My friend, the different usages of the words "town" and "village" are

painfully obvious.

You don't want to recognize it, because it hurts your brain. That's fine.

But I'm clearly right.

[Rhythm and Blue]

47. If something shocking and offensive is painfully obvious to you and only you,

you're almost certainly wrong.

[Guaranteed]

50. We refer to our small residential areas in different terms

than we do for other countries. It's just true.

You've tried to refute that with official classifications, dictionaries, and proper names, but that doesn't address what I'm talking about in our everyday language.

You don't like what I'm saying, fine. But I'm right until I hear people on TV talking about small TOWNS in the United States as "villages," and referring to groupings of straw huts in Africa as "towns." And that's just it.

[Rhythm and Blue]

60. Groupings of straw huts in Africa are unlikely to be towns.

Groupings of houses in America are more likely to be towns than villages, though many villages refer to themselves as such. I grew up in South Holland, a village south of Chicago. I don't know what your problem is, to tell you the truth.

I mean, some people use "village" as a shorthand for "settlement without modern fixtures," and "town" for "modern settlement," and while that's incorrect, it isn't racist. Nobody would refer to a modernized Chinese suburb of Beijing as a "village."

[Guaranteed]

66. "More likely." So have you ever heard

of any-sized grouping of small huts being referred to as a town, in Africa, or Asia, or any non-white area?

[Rhythm and Blue]

68. No. I challenge you, then, to show me a grouping of small huts of town size,

which is being referred to as a village.

[Guaranteed]

70. Officially? That would be beside the point.

I can tell you, though, that I have heard an awwwwful lot of people refer to "villages" outside of our country, and I can't imagine that they were all so small that they couldn't be called towns.

In other words, I don't think that, in those instances I'm referring to, the people were using the word in its official context. Generally, I don't think people do that, at least if they didn't grow up in an area where the official distinction between "village" and "town" was made so clear in everyday use.

[Rhythm and Blue]

76. The problem you're missing

(and what I was alluding to with "show me a grass-hut town") is that many countries in the developing world actually do have very few towns, but instead have a strange (to us) dichotomy between villages and cities. China is a very good example. So is Nigeria. While towns exist in both to some extent, both generally are split between a urban world of slums and middle-class success, and a rural world in which villages are most common. The Western world--America especially--is somewhat exceptional in our town-centered pattern of settlement.

[scarletwoman]

91. You make an excellent point. I'm sorry the OP hasn't acknowledged it.

I'd be interested in seeing if the OP has a counter argument.

sw

[Rhythm and Blue]

98. The fact that he has ignored it so far

suggests he does not.

[Guaranteed]

102. I ignored it because it was the same thing you were saying earlier,

except that now you are offering it as fact- that there is no such thing as a town outside of the United States, in countries with non-white people?

My response remains the same- I would highly doubt that. I gave an example to scarletwoman downpage of a small town in Vietnam (which had a "villager", according to a person posting pictures). I'm sure there are plenty more such towns out there.

And you're still missing my larger point, which is that people don't use the word "village" with an official classification in mind. You act as if people go around checking numbers against charts to determine if they should use the word "town" or "village." They don't, particularly people unfamiliar with an area. They simply use the word "village" as a catch-all, when they're not referring to a city.

[Rhythm and Blue]

105. You just missed the point, again.

The reason people generally refer to small settlements in certain nations as "villages" and in others as "towns" is that villages are overwhelmingly more common in some nations, and towns in others. I am not saying "there is no such thing as a town in developing nations," I am saying "in historically-agricultural developing nations, the predomonant form of settlement is either a city or a village. In America, towns are extremely common."

In addition, you ignore the developmental history of both words. Historically in America, a village is generally a settlement of farmers, with little or no commerce. A town is a center of commerce, where people trade and have stores and businesses. America has far more towns than villages. By this loose definition, China has far more villages than towns.

In America, the unmarked settlement is a town. In many nations, the unmarked settlement is a village. This is, indeed, fact. However, this is not to say that others do not exist and are not properly referred to. Many villages exist in America, and are not only officially called "Village of X," but are referred to as villages by their inhabitants. Many towns exist in developing nations. Villages are more common, by either definition of the term.

(I grew up in a village in America. We refer to it as a village, because that is what it is. You have an opinion of what people believe, and your opinion simply is not backed up by anything at all.)

[Guaranteed]

110. The word "town" is simply not used in reference to

non-white residential areas outside of the United States by people within the United States. And we, conversely, do not speak of general "villages" here in the U.S. We might refer to a particular area as a "Village" when referring directly to it, but when was the last time you heard anyone in the MSM refer to villages in the plural within the United States? It doesn't happen- because the connotations of the word, in our minds, do not apply within our country- despite the fact that, officially, "many villages exist in America."

I have a hard time imagining Katie Couric using the word "village" in the way that you are claiming it is used- "So, Bob, how are the village people (Ha!!- as opposed to the townspeople) feeling about this new development?" No, it doesn't happen.

My opinion is backed up by exactly that- the way we use those words today.

You're trying to apply "developmental history" of these words to justify the disparate treatment of residential areas, but ignoring their connotations.

[Rhythm and Blue]

115. Jesus, you're dense. You still don't understand what I'm saying. Let me try one more time.

The most common type of settlement in much of the developing world is what we in America have historically called a village--that is, a small (sub-2000-people) collection of agriculturalists, where organized and dedicated commerce does not take place (the difference between a twice-weekly marketplace and a permanent general store). Throw a dart at a map, you'll probably hit a village. So you generally refer to settlements in those countries as villages, because that is the unmarked case.

The most common type of settlement in America is what we in America have historically called a town--that is, a moderate-sized collection of persons with different jobs, in which organized and dedicated commerce does take place. Throw a dart at a map, you'll probably hit a town. So you generally refer to settlements in this country as towns, because that is the unmarked case.

Any business about foreigners, race, nationality, or any other negative connotations is completely made up in your head, and is more indicitive of your personal beliefs than of anyone else's.

[MilesColtrane]

126. "The word "town" is simply not used in reference to"

"non-white residential areas outside of the United States by people within the United States."

I've never heard anyone here refer to the "village of Soweto"

Its name comes from, 'South Western Township'.

Since apartheid was enforced and only black Africans lived in Soweto perhaps "township", and by derivation "town" is the REAL racist term.

What nonsense.

[mitchtv]

158. Wrong...

A town is incorporated ( has a mayor,or council or both. A village is not an organized political entity, tho they are represented by the county , or a township.I see no racist meaning at all.A village can be any group of buidings, including commercial, from the very bottom right on up to the "top draw" communities ,that is not a town. Two different things, really.

[Redstone]

48. OK, fine, you're right. Happy now?

Redstone

[scarletwoman]

89. That's because "town" and "village" mean two different things!

Some places ARE towns. Some places ARE villages.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

165. BwaaaaHaaaa!

This is the most insane thread I've seen here and yet you are still trying to defend your original post. I would try to argue with you but for some unkniwn reason you are outraged over a common noun.

[Odin2005]

43. If one is activly searching for something to be outraged about you'll certainly find it.

Even if there is nothing really to be outraged about. There's cognitive bias for ya...

[mitchtv]

10. Village ?

To me, a small wealthy suburban development, like on Long Island , or Westchester co.NY , or around Cape Ann in MA. Village sounds unincorporated a part of a township, perhaps. But I grew up in a neighborhood, so what do I know?

[durrrty libby]

11. Villages are quaint and cozy. Look some up and visit.

Start in NH there are some beauties there.

[TayTay]

23. List of Villages in the United States in Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Villages_in_the_United_States

There are hundreds of them.

[Guaranteed]

26. Proper names again? Whoohoo.

But when was the last time you referred to any residential area offhand, and not within its name, as a "village?"

[TayTay]

33. A lot

There are a lot of villages in New England. I have referred to village limits, village growth, rules, etc and even called people villagers.

[Guaranteed]

69. LOL you called Americans villagers?

I like that. Well done, sir. ;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. When I talk about my village, I refer to it as a village because that's what it is.

A village. Why is that so hard to believe?

[Rhythm and Blue]

101. So do I. South Holland, where I grew up, is a village.

It is referred to as a village. It is almost never called a town, because it is not a town. It is a village.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Yes and my village is listed.

:)

[Blue_In_AK]

41. And look at that, they don't even show Alaska's villages

Village of Cantwell
Village of Chistochina
Chitina Traditional Village
Village of Kluti-kaah
Village of Gakona
Gulkana Village
Village of Tazlina
Village of Akutan
Village of Atka
Village of Belkofski
Village of Nelson Lagoon
Village of Nikolski
Village of Nuiqsut
Village of Anaktuvuk Pass
Atqasuk Village
Kaktovik Village
Village of Point Hope

on and on and on. There are hundreds of them.

[Guaranteed]

59. And it does sound as if Alaskans do refer to Native Alaskan

residential areas in exactly the way that I AM referring to (not just official/proper classifications, etc.).

[Blue_In_AK]

62. But if the Alaska natives themselves

are referring to the villages as villages, and have done so traditionally, then how is it racist? I guess I miss your point.

[Guaranteed]

64. Well, I think that the use of the word

in the way that you're describing creates/reinforces a separation between races of people. It may not be done intentionally, or with any kind of malice, but you can see that the way the words are being used does have a sociological effect.

[Blue_In_AK]

81. But ALL words have a sociological effect.

We are all different, there are different cultures, different people call things different names. How would calling the villages "towns" make the cultures more homogenous, which I guess is what you're asking for? We'd still be different -- and that's okay. I celebrate diversity.

[The Straight Story]

29. Well, since it offends someone I will erase it from my language

Soon, I will have no words left :)

[Guaranteed]

46. You know, it doesn't "offend" me- what it shows me, though,

is that we really do use words to reinforce our own ideas about our relationship with the rest of the world.

Our using that word- and it isn't intentional, at all- creates a gap between the residents of our country, and the residents of other countries. It, subtly, reassures us that we're better than them. It's just ingrained into our language.

[The Straight Story]

54. Not for me

I used to live near the 'village of Asheville' and then lived in the village/town of Laurelville (Both in Ohio).

I have always considered villages to be smaller places than towns, which were smaller than cities.

As an aside, if I am not mistaken, Asheville is the first town to have a real stop light which they bring out once a year to show off.

From Amazon:

- The First Traffic Light
The first traffic light was invented by some men in Asheville, Ohio. It looked nothing like today, but resembled more of a UFO.

http://www.amazon.com/Ohio-Oddities-Curious-Attractions-Buckeye/dp/1886228493

[Odin2005]

32. A lot of small "towns" in the US are technically villages.Village = small, unincorporated settlement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_%28United_States%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_area

I've never really had a problem with the term. to me it conjures up the image of peaceful rural communities like the one I grew up in.

[Rhythm and Blue]

45. Town (n): A population center that is larger than a village and smaller than a city.

Village (n):
1: A small group of dwellings in a rural area, usually ranking in size between a hamlet and a town.
2: In some U.S. states, an incorporated community smaller in population than a town.


http://www.answers.com/town&r=67


And many American villages exist. Case in point:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22village+of%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Deb]

49. Here it's common for people to ask if we live in the village or town

Our village has it's own government,laws,utilities and services. There are many differences between NY towns and villages that have nothing to do with income or race.

[Redstone]

51. I'm invoking Redstone's Rule #3 right here, and leaving this thread:

"Never argue with someone who has the same answer for every question."

You all can carry on as you wish, but I'm done.

Redstone

[JDPriestly]

52. I love the word myself. It has a cozy feel.

I lived in a village in Europe. It had its own name and bus stop (on the 13th of the month only) and could be found on local maps, but fewer than ten houses. The residents were farmers who worked the surrounding fields and a few people who worked in a nearby town. So, yes, villages exist in other parts of the world, and not necessarily just in developing nations. They are quite different from towns.

[TahitiNut]

53. That's gotta be the Chihuahua of all pet peeves.

:wow:

... a real "run for the border" mini-rant.

[Guaranteed]

55. It's a button that does get pushed a lot.

Because of the way the words are used, you see...

I invite you to think about my post next time you hear anyone use the word village, at least in the MSM....

A shiney new nickel says they'll be referring to some non-white people in another country....

[TahitiNut]

57. Hereabouts, folks pay another $50+/sq' to have 'Village' in their mailing address.

Try "hamlet" ... at least it'll sound un-kosher. :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

79. And they'll probably be referring to an actual village -- a small rural settlement.

No one calls Kinshasha or Nairobi "villages", they are called cities because they ARE cities. On the other hand, small clusters of dwellings in rural areas -- where people HAVE to be spread out in small groups due to scarce resources like arable land and pasturage -- ARE villages. To call them towns would be a misnomer because they are not urban settlements, they are RURAL settlements.

It's not a matter of racism or classism, it's a matter of environment and lifestyle.

[Guaranteed]

82. Here's one example:

Admittedly from the Internet.

I looked up "villager" images and found this reference to a "villager" from Hoi An:

&p=villager&type=jpeg&no=513&tt=65,126&oid=d6a8c03011a04f66&fusr=Matt+Laddin&tit=Villager%2C+Hoi+An&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fmattladdin%2F&ei=UTF-8&src=p

Here is some brief info on Hoi An. It's referred to as a "small town" by one of its natives, and by a visitor- it's been there for centuries as well, and was a major port. It is not a village.

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7148/index.html

My point is that I don't think people typically use the word in its official sense, weighing out small differences in populations or culture. No one would refer to a large city as a village, but it seems that just about everything else can be referred to as one, if the people look "right," and if there is enough distance between the speaker and the place/people being referred to.

[scarletwoman]

84. Sorry, it still has to do with lifestyle and degree of development -- as in industrial development.

What would YOU propose the person in the picture be referred to as?

I can't tell from the back whether that person is female or male, so I wouldn't know whether to use "townswoman" or "townsman". S/he may be a farmer -- since the caption for the photo mentions "returning from the market", but there's no way to know that for sure just from looking at the picture. There's no way to even know if that person actually lives in that small town -- maybe the market is in the town, and the person is on her/his way home to her/his farm outside the town.

There's simply not anything inherently racist about the word "village", nor is it racist to use it in the context of describing an agrarian or pastoral community. There are Russian villages, Italian villages, French villages, English villages -- there are Amish villages in the U.S.

It's nothing more than a descriptor for a particular type of community whose central economy is either agriculturally or subsistence-based, and generally non-industrial. The fact is, this is precisely the kind of community that is far more common in the non-Western world than in the heavily urbanized United States.

[zalinda]

61. I used to live in the city of Syracuse, town of Geddes, and

village of Solvay. And yes, they call it the village, when you are in Geddes. Like, do you live in the village?

The only reason village is not a more "common" term here in the US is because villages are more than likely within town limits. Whereas, places like in Africa, a village may be in a remote area, far from a town. In this context, village is to denote a small community of people living together with an elected government. I am sure there are villages that are not poor. When someone says village, I don't automatically think, huts and dirt floors. I also think of those beautiful Irish villages, with green rolling hills.

zalinda

[Guaranteed]

63. You're using the word in a proper name context that way, with a

capital "V"- as in, do you live in the Village? (of Solvay). You're referring directly to Solvay.

But we don't use the term in its general context like that. We use the word "town."

And, when we hear people speaking about other, non-white countries, if they're not referring to a fairly prominent city, the word "village" is virtually always used (I can't remember any other word being used). And I think the connotation has been created.

Here's an even stronger one- "villagers." What images come up in your mind with that one?

Are there any "villagers" here in the United States?

[Rhythm and Blue]

67. Are there any "townsmen?" nt

[Guaranteed]

72. We have "citizens."

And "residents."

Oh, and yes, we do have "townspeople" and "townsfolk."

[zalinda]

74. Well, I gave you a way out, and you didn't take it

I guess you just want to argue about your village thing. Go ahead, argue, but not with me. You really are beating a dead horse.

zalinda

[Igel]

71. I think it's a silly peeve, but it's your pet.

You're seeing the remains of a linguistic system.

In many European languages, a village is a very small settlement. Somewhat bigger in some languages is a "settlement"--it implies more than just a few houses near each other. (That can be flipped around.) Eventually you get up to something the size of a town, but a town had official recognition: Think of it as incorporated, with permission to have a market. If you're a settlement without permission to have a market and you do, bad settlement, prepare to have somebody from the crown visit you and make sure you've paid the fines and don't do it again. Cities were bigger yet, with administrative functions.

Every little burg in England with "-wich" or "-wick" was at the bottom of the barrel. -by means about the same, but from the Danelaw. Etc. "Village", of course, is Norman French linguistic imperialism, but it's gone native.

When you come to the US, you have a problem: We don't have the same kind of government. Even when we were under the British, the system wasn't developed here very much since the US wasn't developed very much. The New England states had villages, but they were established as such. And they weren't towns. Don't know what they did in Maryland, I don't remember any "villages" there, they probably have a few. But mostly towns and unofficial unincorporated settlements given names and no general rubric. I grew up in a little place with around 13k people, a name on the map, a post office, and no local government, and nearby were 2-3 other such places. We weren't a town.

Fast forward to 1800. We had lots of new land. Lots of new settlements. And no provision for enforcing the "village doesn't have a market by edict of the king, a town is incorporated with a market, and a city is administrative" drivel in public speech. In the territories, nobody cared about markets. You want a market, you set one up, run it yourself, and call it a "store". The distinction between village and town was moot. A big town was a city, but everything else defaulted to "town".

But villages were usually small and fairly insignificant. Who wants to be small and insignificant. Bigger is better. "Town" is better than "village." So a bit of a linguistic shift happened: The lowly, humble "village" was dropped out of American English, rather like "small" and "petit" condoms are seldom seen in the US. But seriously, calling a "village" with 20 inhabitants a "town" seems silly to me. I avoid town. "Burg", "community", "hamlet" (!), even "blip", but "town"? If there's no real government apart from a few local big men, no government services, no authority vested locally except where your neighbor's goat will pasture? We go back to the way villages were run: And we call them "villages," if they have some sort of independent status. And they're not in the US (most such places in the US have no authority of any kind, so it's not a big problem).

Now, I still have the same size unit for places that aren't independent. But I say "community", not "village." Or even "suburb".

Go to Europe or Africa. Most of the communities have some sort of rudimentary leadership. The kind missing in a "community". But precisely the kind of rudimentary leadership you saw in villages. Still no strong central authority coordinating tax collection and the like, probably no market. So we drop back 300 years in English and find the appropriate terms. Not because of racism. I feel no special racist animus against Czechs and Slovaks, or even Russians and British, and refer to the smallest settlement units there as "villages" because, well, that's how they refer to them, and "village" is the standard word for them. But when referring to little places in Appalachia, it's just not something I do: the little burgs are either incorporated as towns, or they lack sufficient structure.

[Guaranteed]

77. Very interesting post. nt

[Odin2005]

Excellent post!

This was the point I was trying to get across to the OP. It has to do with the "socioeconomic geography" of English-speaking, immigrant-based frontier societies(the US, Canada, and Australia, basically), not racism. to call a small traditional settlement in a 3rd world country a "town" is to take American-Canadian-Australian place-name usage out of socioeconomic context.

[Redstone]

73. OK, you've gotten the attention you were looking for. Can you please stop now? I ask

you this because there are REAL issues of racism in this world that need to be discussed and dealt with, and you only distract people from thinking about and dealing with those REAL issues with your silly assertions, and with your mulish defenses of those assertions.

You've had your fun. Furthermore, the more I read of your posts, the more I come to believe that you do NOT have the first CLUE about what racism is, and what its consequences are.

Despite the DU rules, I'm calling you out, right here: Are you white? If so, I'd strongly advise you to stop playing your game right now.

You've gone from being mildly amusing with this thread, to being annoying, to being unbearable.

Enough is just too fucking much. As I said, you've drawn the attention you were obviously angling for, so PLEASE stop.

Racism touches people's lives in ways you can NEVER understand. Stop exploiting it for your own desire for attention.

Redstone

[Guaranteed]

75. I actually think what I'm saying is extremely important.

We on DU talk all the time about how Americans, for some reason, think that they are better than the rest of the people of the world. In fact, it seems as if, much of the time, Americans think that people from other countries are robots- not real people at all.

I'm saying that part of that is the result of the language we use when talking about those people. And I think the word "village" is very much a part of that language structure that reinforces these ideas in our minds.

So, I do think I've gotten my point across. But that was the idea behind my post- I think, even if I'm not 100% correct on the issue (there are shades of gray everywhere), it is important to at least point out these patterns present in our language that affect the way we think. I'm not just looking for attention (although I certainly got it, and unexpected amount).

[EST]

87. For what it's worth, I agree.

Where I live, the biggest difference between villages and towns is incorporation and attitude.
A "villager" wears old clothes, is unsophisticated, at least by city standards, and there's an underlying assumption that she/he's not too smart.
If the villager were smart, he/she'd have moved to the big city, gotten a good job and amounted to something.
Getting people to see something that heretofore has been invisible to them is a thankless task, often impossible.

I was immensely surprised to see people on this thread whom I have grown to respect actually ridiculing you for seeing and attempting to describe something they are not aware of.

Oh, well, I've been disappointed before. It is puzzling, however.

[scarletwoman]

88. Interestingly, your example actually refutes one of the OP's points:

Whereas in the United States small residential areas are referred to as "towns," in poor countries, or even not-so-poor, but ethnic, areas in other countries, are referred to almost exclusively as "villages." Why? Why are they not referred to as "towns," like they are here in the U.S.?

Even POOR areas in the U.S. are not referred to as "villages," but as towns.

Urban disdain for rural people is nothing new -- it's as old as the establishment of cities -- and it's certainly not confined to the U.S.

What the OP was claiming is that (a) small residential areas in the U.S. are never referred to as "villages", and (b) the only places where the label "village" is applied are "ethnic" communities in other countries.

In my posts #79 & #84 above, I have argued that small rural settlements ARE properly called villages, as are small non-industrial communities whose economies are agricultural or subsistence-based. Additionally, since villages are also still found in many "developed" countries -- such as Britain, France, Italy, and Russia (not to mention examples in our country, i.e. Amish villages) -- and are referred to as such by their own inhabitants, the notion that applying the term "village" to a particular type of settlement is "racist" is absurd.

sw

[EST]

95. You make a good point.

Communication is so difficult, other than the stick and rock method. Accuracy often takes a backseat and the lack of common experience further complicates understanding.

[Guaranteed]

104. But you also said that they use the term derisively,

which is consistent with the use as I am describing it and my larger point.

[Rhythm and Blue]

108. Not at all.

Your point is that it is racist and nationalist, which is somewhat undone by this.

[Guaranteed]

112. Actually, I said it was racist and classist...

You can definitely see the classism in his comments.

But the root of those "isms" is the separation of peoples and the power gained in the mind of the person using the derisive term over the person it is being applied to.

[Rhythm and Blue]

116. Classism, perhaps, but a classism that is totally unrelated to national boundaries,

and thus completely divorced from your original point--unless your point was actually just "I am angry about the word "village" and hate it wherever it exists."

Even POOR areas in the U.S. are not referred to as "villages," but as towns.

[Guaranteed]

118. It's only not racist in that particular instance because

it is being used in the United States (in reference to white people, apparently). But the connotations are the same, and if it was used in that manner outside of the United States, it would be racist as well.

[Rhythm and Blue]

119. So a word said with the exact same intent and connotations

can become racist and non-racist depending on whether it's used to refer to the exact same thing in two different countries? Seriously, it's really time to cut your losses.

[Guaranteed]

122. Yes, because when such a word is being used derisively,

it is the basis on which the word is being used that determines if it is sexist, classist, racist, etc. In the case above, it is being used to deride those of a lower socioeconomic class.

[Rhythm and Blue]

123. Then it would have a different intent and different connotations.

[scarletwoman]

164. It is you who is being U.S.-centric with all this. As I posted above, there have always existed

class tensions between urban and rural dwellers, for as long as there have been urban establishments. It is not a feature exclusive to the West. I'm sure if you were conversing with an educated middle class resident of Nairobi, they would evince the same disdain for "villagers" that you are claiming is a distinctly U.S. attitude.

Classism is a universal feature of the human tendency to discriminate between "my" group, and the "other". However, the fact that a resident of Nairobi might look down on those Kenyans who live in villages, has nothing to do with the term "villager", it has to do with the perception that those who dwell in rural areas are less educated and sophisticated.

It's no different than the common U.S. reference to the "flyover states" in our own country -- the "flyover states" being the agricultural and pastoral middle of the continent, considered to be less sophisticated than the highly urbanized coastal states.

To use the word "farmer" in a derisive manner doesn't mean that the person being referred to ISN'T really farmer when he actually is. To have a derogatory attitude toward "villagers" doesn't mean that they AREN'T really villagers, it just means you have a bad attitude.

People who live in small communities in rural areas really DO live in villages, whether it's in France or Wales or China or Africa. "Village" is simply a designation for a particular form of rural-based community. If an urban dweller holds village dwellers in contempt it is not a function of the word "village", it is a function of the urban dwellers' attitude.

sw

[Guaranteed]

167. Yes, and what does it show when the term begins getting used

in such an across-the-board manner that- as many here seem to be arguing- all non-white people from other countries, not living in cities, are deemed to live in "villages?" Does that give the impression that they are all poor- even when they're not? What kind of attitude does that reflect?

[scarletwoman]

177. Aside from one captioned photo, you have not presented any evidence of people being referred to as

"villagers", who do not, in fact, actually live in villages.

I mean, sure; saying "the natives are restless" is certainly racist in the context of an old Western or Tarzan movie, but that does not mean that referring to the indigenous inhabitants of a particular geographical location as "natives" is in itself inherently racist.

[mitchtv]

168. Derisive use of the word?

Calling two malls and gas station a village is abusive.

[All4Free]

78. Well actually,

my mother lives in Spencerport, NY. Spencerport VILLAGE. It's not the only one. And it's not poor. It's a village because that's what it is.

[kineneb]

80. I live in a village: pop. under 2000, not incorporated

probably never will be incorporated, and no "downtown" center either, business is strung out along the highway... probably a quarter of the "population" is non-resident most of the year.

so yup, it is a village

[Norrin Radd]

83. My pet peeve:

using the umbrella term "linguistics," in lieu of the more accurate term "semantics," in regards to the study of the meaning of words.

[Heidi]

86. Why are you worried about what other countries call their "incorporated minor municipalities"?

We live in a _village_, not a _town_. Our village is incorporated, but unlike a town, we have no post office and our school is closed except for two grades. We're village, not a town. It has nothing to do with class or income or race.

[Gravel2008]

92. Stupidest post ever.

Or thereabout.

[Vinca]

93. ????? We have villages all over the place in New England.

Sometimes villages are within towns. Villages in the U.S. don't reflect poverty, either. Some Vermont villages have homes owned by the most affluent among us.

[Rhythm and Blue]

100. We've got tons of villages in the Chicagoland area. OP is just nuts. nt

[Crabby Appleton]

94. Growing up - the local paper was called the Tri-Village News

http://www.snponline.com/tri-village_news/front/

how racist of them.

[Booster]

96. Yeah, but it takes a village sounds better than it takes a town.

[datasuspect]

97. the village of oak park illinois?

[WinkyDink]

103. Is Hillary speaking of some OTHER country in "It Takes a Village"?

[Guaranteed]

106. Yes, she was referring to an African proverb, and incorporating

it (oh so quaintly) into the United States.

[Rhythm and Blue]

109. So the Africans are being racist in referring to villages?

Or are they just using the word "village" because it is most appropriate for the most common type of human settlement in most African nations?

[Guaranteed]

111. "Village" is in translation. And, when they use the translated word,

they don't use it with the same connotation as we do.

[Rhythm and Blue]

113. You mean the same connotation you do.

You're starting to sound like you're projecting a bit.

[Guaranteed]

114. No, it's the connotation I recognize in the repeated

and extremely consistent use of the word by virtually everyone in the United States.

[Rhythm and Blue]

117. Don Quixote recognized the repeated and consistent grave threats windmills represented. nt

[Rhythm and Blue]

107. No, she's clearly being racist, because villages are only for foreigners.

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

120. FWIW I understand what you mean

I have heard "village" used meaning a small town, but understand what you mean since I have also heard it to mean either a small town in a "backward" place, or as a romanticized designation.

In villages everyone gets along, work cooperatively, etc = romanticized designation, I refer to people who use it this was as belonging to the Wannabe Tribe. ("In a village no one goes hungry unless they all do.")

In "backward" places (would "low tech" work better?) they are villages to denote dirt poor, low tech, backwards, "ooooo look at the natives in their costumes in their village tilling their gardens with sticks, oooo" sort of stuff. This is offensive, when it is used this way.

DICLAIMER: I in NO f*ing way use "low tech" or "backwards" to denigrate anywhere/anyone except how I have heard/read people denote those places/people. Though yes, there are low tech places. Hence the use of quotes.

[baldguy]

124. I live in the Village of Kenmore.

I work in the Village of Williamsville.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_New_York#Village

[Silver Swan]

125. I live in a village.

If you go to the official web page for the "town" I live in, it is called the "Village of ***.

When we refer to any of the governmental functions of our town, we always refer to it as "the village."

[Cetacea]

127. Size does matter?

Sorry, I've tried every which way to Sunday to try to understand what is upsetting you. The best I could come up with was that you meant "villagers", as in "Every day the villagers would arise and walk hand in hand to the watering hole". One could substitute the words "members of the small community" for "villagers" or even "village" there but it still refers to size.
I am sure that you can find instances of white, wealthy people cited as living in wealthy "villages" outside of America.

[uppityperson]

129. I get what OP was saying, intent matters.

After reading this whole thing, it seem most of the people posting there don't understand. If the term "village" is used to speak of a small conclave of humans living in a third world, less developed technologically type place, it can be racist and classist. Often a small conclave of people living together in a third world and/or less developed technologically and/or less economically advantaged place is reffered to as a "village".

Many of us have linguistic pet peeves which can range from cackling to bitch to nigger to village, each of which can be used properly AND can be misused. (and no, I am not giving weight to each of these terms, just pulling up examples) I find it wise to listen to others linguistic peeves, to consider them, to figure out how and when they are misused. But then I am uppity and oh so sanctimonious at times so don't bother pointing that out also (meant in a joking I know I'm uppity manner).

[Rhythm and Blue]

131. Not so much "racist and classist" as "appropriate."

Often a small conclave of people living together in a third world and/or less developed technologically and/or less economically advantaged place is reffered to as a "village".

That would be because a small conclave of agriculturalists is actually called a village.

[ret5hd]

132. Well, the obvious does seem to escape SOME people, doesn't it?

[Guaranteed]

134. Yes, and apparently there are nothing but "small conclaves of agriculturalists"

outside of the United States when they are non-white and don't live in a city, since that's the only term we ever use. Which is the point.

[uppityperson]

136. Hiya, I'd from the "never" "ever" "always"

since some get hung up on that, proving that it isn't never ever always. Which is a separate issue.

[Rhythm and Blue]

139. Nobody says "there are nothing but."

The most common type of settlement in much of the developing world is what we in America have historically called a village--that is, a small (sub-2000-people) collection of agriculturalists, where organized and dedicated commerce does not take place (the difference between a twice-weekly marketplace and a permanent general store). Throw a dart at a map, you'll probably hit a village. So you generally refer to settlements in those countries as villages, because that is the unmarked case.

The most common type of settlement in America is what we in America have historically called a town--that is, a moderate-sized collection of persons with different jobs, in which organized and dedicated commerce does take place. Throw a dart at a map, you'll probably hit a town. So you generally refer to settlements in this country as towns, because that is the unmarked case.

Any business about foreigners, race, nationality, or any other negative connotations is completely made up in your head, and is more indicitive of your personal beliefs than of anyone else's.

[Guaranteed]

148. No, I'm talking about the way most everyone in the U.S. uses the word- including you.

That's why you don't like what I'm saying.

If I was merely talking about my personal beliefs you wouldn't be having this reaction, even repeating your posts.

People in the U.S. don't refer to charts and numbers when they decide (virtually always) to call such residential areas outside of our countries "villages." Just as they don't use the word "villages" inside of our country, even where it may be appropriate.

You apparently think that every non-city residential area outside of the United States has a fundamentally different quality than every residential area in the United States- other than the color of the peoples' skin and their socioeconomic class. I would say just the opposite- that the only differences one MIGHT find between the two are skin color and socioeconomic class.

And THAT, sir, is where the difference lies in the ACTUAL usage of the two words- skin color and socioeconomic class.

On TOP of that, even where there is no real socioeconomic difference, the term "village" STILL gets used as a blanket word to subtly deride non-white people being referred to. That is where the racism comes into play.

I don't know why you refuse to recognize this- but it sure isn't because this is merely my personal belief. You've heard the usage of these words just as much as I have, and should be able to figure this out on your own.

[Rhythm and Blue]

192. I am repeating my post because you are not addressing it.

I claim that the use of "village" as a catch-all for foreign nations is purely a matter of generalization of a tendency, as is the use of "town" in America. You don't have to look at a chart or a number to tell a village from a town. They simply look different. They are different things. And yet all you can say is "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A VILLAGE AND A TOWN AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS RACISM." That is clearly false, and there are literally dozens of posts and nearly as many people disproving you in this thread.

I've spent several years of my life in China. A Chinese village and a Chinese town are very different things, and are obviously different things. You think "there's no difference," so you assume that calling a village a village and a town a town is somehow racist.

You're the only one who believes that there's racism in this word. Get over your own hangups.

[Odin2005]

198. You're pigheadedness is just confirming my suspicion of "BS pop sociology."

You are reminding me of rantings by crap "social scientists" influenced Structuralist and Postmodernist BS "philosophy" (like the idiots that think all tall buildings are phallic symbols and similar garbage) that use ridiculous nit-picking about word usage that lead to inane ranting about power structures (*cough* Foucault *cough*) to conjure up some faux outrage that doesn't really exist.

[uppityperson]

135. SOME people miss the point, true

A bitch is a female dog in heat. Call me a bitch and it's offensive. Intent matters. Sometimes a term is used accurately, sometimes offensively.

[uppityperson]

133. True, and to add to that...but IF it is used only for this desination

in another country, then it is classist and racist. Can a village have rich/tech advantaged people in it? Of course it can. BUT, there are those who would say no, that makes it a town. IF the term is universally applied, regardless of continental location or economics, then it's not racist, classist.

I had issues with a person who wanted to live in a village because everyone gets along in villages, khumbahyah stuff. "in a village people walk putting their feet directly in front of each other rather than side by side", seriously I had this told to me. In this person's mind, a "village" was fantasyland. Which is opposite from those who refer to "village" as a dirty downtrodden place, but still inaccurate.

[Rhythm and Blue]

138. It's not the existence of rich people that makes a settlement a town.

It would be the existence of organized, permanent trade, a larger population (this is often subjective) and often a higher degree of public infrastructure.

I'll admit that some people use the term "village" as shorthand for "small settlement in a developing nation." However, that seems to me to be more a result of a handy generalization--in the developing world, villages are the most common form of human settlement outside cities, whereas in America towns are. This cuts both ways, though--while a few towns may be erroneously "downgraded" to villages in the name of convenience, many hamlets are in turn erroneously "upgraded" to villages as well.

[Uncle Joe]

137. Well as we're on the subject of pet peeves, mine is the term "gone south"

this is the term used to describe whenever a company's fortunes decline or someone's career turns negative.

Actually no one knows from a universal stand point what is up and what is down, but if you identify with the South as your home, it can feel like a slam.

[uppityperson]

141. "I got gypped" is one of mine.

Even the term "gypsy" is inaccurate and can be derogatory towards a group of people.

[Swamp Rat]

142. And for those of us south of the South,

here in New Orleans, "going south" means "going swimming in the Gulf of Mexico." :D

[Uncle Joe]

146. Swamp Rat, I'm technically deficient when it comes to transferring photos but check this diary out.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/20/2307/8616

The One

by buhdydharma

Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 08:00:06 PM PDT

(Updated from one year ago...)

Crossposted from Docudharma





:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

149. LOL!! ... I told you, NeoGore is "The One!"

Someone is reading DU. :D

[Swamp Rat]

140. "Village" has rural and agricultural roots... it is simply a 'pastorale' word.

It is not a pejorative and is very common in the USA.

:shrug:

[booley]

143. Actually aren't small towns in Europe called villiages?

And aren't countries in France and england and Russia primarily white?

And for the record, when I was in college in Warrensburg, Mo, I frequently heard the nearby town of Knob Knoster reffered to as a villiage. Even by some of the residents.

[Guaranteed]

153. Yes, many of them are called villages.

Not just in the official, classification sense, but also in everyday speech. That's because the Europeans call them villages, and we follow their suit. But when using the word to refer to them, we also take on the connotation that they put on it. We don't do that in other instances.

[booley]

181. what connotations?

To me a villiage is just a really small town.

So how is calling a very small town in Africa or Asia a villiage racist but calling a very small town in France a villiage not?

I am sorry but you've lost me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

183. What connotation do you think we in Europe put on 'village', apart from 'small settlement'?

Basically, what you have identified is that the USA doesn't use the word 'village' to refer to its own small settlements very often. I would suggest this is because the people in those settlements have a self-inflated idea of their importance, and so want to call themselves a 'town' instead. Similarly, many settlements in the USA call themselves a 'city' when they are laughably small, for the same reason.

[Guaranteed]

189. Nothing. I think that's the connotation.

And Americans go along with it- when referring to Europeans.

But, no, we don't use the word to refer to our own very small towns. They're towns, not villages.

Further, we also use the word "village" almost exclusively when referring to non-urban, non-white residential areas in other countries. Almost never "town." And the connotation is different when it is used that way than when used to refer to Europeans.

[muriel_volestrangler]

191. So, could 3,000 uses of 'town' with africa by CNN (excluding Cape Town)

convince you that Americans do, in fact, regularly use the word 'town' for the kind of area you're talking about? As opposed to 1,300 references to 'village' rather than 'town'?

Try these searches to see what I mean:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=+site%3Awww.cnn.com+town+africa+-%22cape+town%22&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=+site%3Awww.cnn.com+village+africa+-%22cape+town%22&btnG=Search&meta=

It would seem 'town' gets used more than twice as often as 'village'.

[Writer]

144. Towns in parts of the Northeast are referred to as "boroughs."

Which is ANTI-DUTCH!

Makes my head spin in circles... 'n stuff.

[Blue_In_AK]

147. Up here huge chunks of land are called boroughs

We don't have counties, so the state is broken up into 16 boroughs, some of which are as big as states. This is a Dutch thing? Who knew? :rofl:

[Writer]

150. Manhattan, once New Amsterdam, is broken into five boroughs...

Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, The Bronx, and Staten Island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough

Actually it's ENGLISH! My bad. I suppose that makes me a Dutchaphobe. You know, because I would assume such a terrible appellate would be from the Dutch. :eyes:

[mitchtv]

175. Correct me if I'm wrong;

in addition to the 5 boroughs, NYC has five counties Manhattan being NY county, Brooklyn is Kings county, SI is Richmond co, and the Bronx and Queens retained their names for both usages.

[Writer]

180. Ding ding ding ding!

Yarp! You are correct.

[Rabrrrrrr]

145. Jesus Christ - here and I thought we'd already had the fucking dumbest thing to be outraged about.

Come to find out, no we hadn't - we were still waiting for this steaming pile of ignorant garbage.

:eyes:

Of all the goddamned dumbest things to be outraged about, this takes the cake.

Oh wait, perhaps "takes the cake" is a racist and classist slur because... well, because it just fucking feels racist to me, and if you can't see it, then you are the densest dumbshit ever to walk the earth. It's practically identical to "poor black man steals the watermelon from the poor defenseless rich white land-owner victim".

Christ.

:eyes:

[Sugar Smack]

154. HEY. Your second-hand smoke got in MY car's open window.

At Sonic. And the flowers you sent were the wrong color. My lawyer's going to fix your little red wagon!!!1!!!111!!

[Rabrrrrrr]

157. Little red wagon? Figures you'd use an inherently anti-child phrase like that.

I'd suggest that you offer forgiveness, but I know that your kind would never even understand why "little red wagon" is offensive to all decent, normal, loving human beings.

[Sugar Smack]

171. My little red wagon can beat up your dad's little red wagon any day.

Y'all join me in the parking lot at five, EST.

[Guaranteed]

161. Don't lump me in with those people.

This actually matters.

[Sugar Smack]

169. My town Carrborro is considered a village by all.

I have nothing against you at all, and I usually love your posts, but I think there are other battles out there that are much more relevant & important & urgent.

I'm not going to lump you in with brides. Sorry bout that. ;)

[King Coal]

151. I live in a village (the Village of Milan, NM) so I can't relate to what you are saying.

I know of another village not too far from here. Gem Village. So, what is your point again?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

152. Some Duer

has far too thin of a skin if that is a pet peeve.

Yes... Today fellow Democrats, as I look out over the millions of people who call this country home, I see violence and racism. I see crime and hungry children with no health care. I see the homeless. I see people dying because we are not utilizing stem cells to find cures. I see our youth being shipped over to Iraq and Afghanistan so a phony cowboy can fight a dumb-assed war. I look out over the 9th Ward of New Orleans and see the horror of what is left in the wake of a hurricane --- But the thing that really makes me crazy is when people use the word "village" I see it as divisive since it is racist.

I believe this may just be the most insane flame war I have seen on the DU.

Why?

[Writer]

155. "Why?"

Because personal politics is now a subset of narcissism.

[Guaranteed]

160. This is not fucking narcissism.

People around here are so outraged at how we could possibly treat people throughout the rest of the world as subhuman. And here I am, offering up a significant reason to explain it, but because it's a new idea and challenges people's thinking, it is reacted to with anger.

And it's not as if the evidence isn't there. All people have to do is think about the way the word is used.

Yet "cackling"- which I have never heard used with anything other than a unisex connotation- is deemed by many to be sexist.

I don't get it.

[uppityperson]

166. I'd give it up for today. Those who don't want to consider the idea

are not going to. I see a couple things here. First the "never" "always" issue, since "all" americans don't think whatever, etc. The other issue is that many posting on this topic seem to not even see the issue of racism, classism that can be part of language that is considered "normal". Perhaps some will notice, Next time the term is used in a derogatory manner. Or else I underestimate DUers and no one ever says anything remotely bigotted.

[Guaranteed]

156. Do you agree that when many Americans look at non-white,

poorer people that are from other countries, they don't see them as equals, or even necessarily human?

I don't think you recognize the significance of what I'm talking about. Our use of language, and the way we use this word, in particular, reinforces these subtle ideas that we are better than other people, or that they don't matter.

[Rabrrrrrr]

159. Oh, I think we all recognize the significance.

Significance = 0.

[Oeditpus Rex]

162. Well, I feel very keenly that the idiot is a part of the old village system

and as such has a vital role to play in a modern rural society, because you see... ooh ar ooh ar before the crops go gey are in the medley crun and the birds slides nightly on the oor ar ooh ar, thankee, Vicar...






...there is this very real need in society for someone whom almost anyone can look down on and ridicule. And this is the role that... ooh ar naggy gamly rangle tandie oogly noogle Goblie oog... thank you, Mrs Thompson... this is the role that I and members of my family have fulfilled in this village for the past four hundred years.

[Liberal In Texas]

185. Somewhere in Texas...

[Liberal In Texas]

163. Just when you think you've seen the goofiest post ever...

this comes along.

[Crabby Appleton]

170. Village - specific form of municipal government

In twenty U.S. states, the term "village" refers to a specific form of incorporated municipal government, similar to a city but with less authority and geographic scope. However, this is a generality; in many states, there are villages that are an order of magnitude larger than the smallest cities in the state. The distinction is not necessarily based on population, but on the relative powers granted to the different types of municipalities and correspondingly, different obligations to provide specific services to residents.

In some states such as New York, Wisconsin, or Michigan, a village is an incorporated municipality, usually, but not always, within a single town or civil township. Residents pay taxes to the village and town or township and may vote in elections for both as well. In some cases, the village may be coterminous with the town or township. There are also many villages which span the boundaries of more than one town or township, and some villages may even straddle county borders.

There is no limit to the population of a village in New York; Hempstead, the largest village in the state, has 55,000 residents, making it more populous than some of the state's cities. However, villages in the state may not exceed five square miles (13 km²) in area.

In the state of Wisconsin a village is always legally separate from the township(s) that it has been incorporated from. The largest village is Menomonee Falls, which has over 32,000 residents.

Michigan and Illinois also have no set population limit for villages and there are many villages that are larger than cities in those states.

Villages in Ohio are almost always legally separate from any townships that they may have been incorporated from (there are exceptions, such as Chagrin Falls, where the township includes the entirety of the village). They have no area limitations, but must reincorporate as cities if they grow to over 5,000 in population. Villages have the same home-rule rights as cities with fewer of the responsibilities. Unlike cities, they have the option of being either a "statutory village" and running their governments according to state law (with a six-member council serving four-year terms and a mayor who votes only to break ties) or being a "charter village" and writing a charter to run their government as they see fit.

In Maryland, a locality designated "Village of ..." may be either an incorporated town or a special tax district.<8> An example of the latter is the Village of Friendship Heights.

In states that have New England towns, a "village" is a center of population or trade, including the town center, in an otherwise sparsely-developed town or city - for instance, the village of Hyannis in the city of the Town of Barnstable.


Unincorporated villages

In many states, the term "village" is used to refer to a relatively small unincorporated community, similar to a hamlet in New York state. This informal usage may be found even in states that have villages as an incorporated municipality, although such usage might be considered incorrect and confusing.

[RetroLounge]

172. OMG! Get the fuck out of here!

I grew up in the Village of Niles, in Illinois, population 32,100, and NO ONE gave a shit.

and your proper name disclaimer doesn't give you a pass on this idiotic pet peeve.

:eyes:

RL

[Sugar Smack]

173. *cues up Carmina Burana*

Got a torch on ya? :smoke: Thanks, lovie.

[RetroLounge]

176. ...

:loveya:

RL

[Sugar Smack]

179. You're a freak, too. I love you, too.

Big Time. :loveya:

[Guaranteed]

178. Sorry, but I'm not talking about proper names, or official classifications.

So your point is irrelevant.

[RetroLounge]

182. You wanna talk about Irrelevant Points?

Wow, lost your irony gene, huh?

RL

[Terri S]

174. but, but....

the children!!! Who will raise the children??!! ;)

[Splat Banjo]

184. I live in a village, too

http://www.glen-carbon.il.us/

Just south of here is http://www.vil.maryville.il.us/

Maybe I should have been at a low simmer all these years at not living in a town.

[Sugar Smack]

199. WELCOME TO DU.

:party: :toast:

[Hieronymus]

186. "I will ride and spread the alarm, through every middlesex, village,

and farm." ... From the Midnight ride of Paul Revere.

[DS1]

187. 'Townies with Pitchforks' just doesn't have the same ring to it, ya know?

[LeftishBrit]

188. Well, maybe it's being British, but I see nothing wrong with 'village'

There are lots of villages in the UK, and no one objects to the term; if anything, it has rather attractive rural, roses-round-the-door associations. For some people, there is actually snob-value in living in a village rather than a town. Sometimes particular suburban areas get referred to as 'the village'; in Wimbledon where I grew up, there was a particular area sometimes referred to as 'Wimbledon Village' (and in local elections it was the 'Village Ward'), and it certainly wasn't a poor area.

Similar in much of Europe. I'm surprised that the word is regarded as negative anywhere, to be honest.

[TZ]

194. Well maybe the OP has a point...

Cause afterall I grew up in "Montgomery Village"---so that means that Villages are home to EVUL BIG YAK SHILLS!!!!
:rofl:
*serious- this has to be the silliest peeve ever*:eyes:

[achtung_circus]

190. Wow.

Just wow.

[applegrove]

193. I love the word village... it takes a village...the global village..etc. Why

should everything be Americanized? There are more people living in villages than in the USA towns. It is a pretty word in my eyes.

[Dorian Gray]

196. huh?

I don't get how it's racist....?

[laylah]

197. WTF? n/t

[Dukkha]

200. Just how fucking bored are you people?

So now "Village" is in the offesive lexicon of the fragile sensitive spoiled pampered upper class now?

the only Village that ever offended me was M. Night Shyamalan's crapfest

[DRoseDARs]

201. Google: "village United States" and tell us what you've learned...

Wikipedia is good too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_(United_States)

I suppose "hamlets" should be offensive to Jews and Muslims too then. :)

lol This has to be one of the funniest threads I've read on DU. Has an almost "The Onion" quality to it.