You won't like it; but I've got to say it.

[jaksavage]

Here it is folks, I am going to say it out LOUD.

The life we live in the US is not healthy.
We waste everything, we demand it is cheap; we don’t care about the consequences.
We have been at it for 350 yrs and soon we will render this planet uninhabitable.
Millions have greased the treads of our machine, consuming humans to provide products that ten years hence we look back at and laugh at our own folly.
But our current folly is no laughing matter, whether it is leather interiors in our SUV’s or that new big screen TV for our double wide. All of this junk is just junk, unnecessary bullshit that we believe we must have, our egos are massaged into constant orgasm by the accumulation of trinkets which won’t last until our next birthday.
Children in particular have become the experts in the incessant need for junk and daily squander mountains of loot on, Starbucks, and Chinese goods, gas for their automobiles trying to keep up with the other baby Joneses.
E fucking nough already.

We are the problem.
If we can’t control ourselves, which I doubt we can, Mother Nature is going to slap us down. Unfortunately it won’t be the worst wasters who die first it will be the little people, but eventually, randomly a majority of us will parish.
This will not result in a less crowded Walmart. It will result in us trying to survive by foraging for food. Nut and berries, squirrels will be a holiday feast, if we can remember what day it is. Yes I am suggesting that total collapse of life as we know it is coming.

All the guns in the world will only make it worse, not better. If anyone believes they want to live and die by the sword, I suggest you have not considered the consequences of that philosophy. Yemen and Afghanistan and much of the Middle East live this way. It is cruel and uncertain, everything must be hoarded and no one except family is to be trusted. If you turn your back your wife or daughter is taken from you, your food is pillaged, unless you are strong and mean enough to defend it, everyday, for the rest of your life.
A life which will be much shorter because of the stress and violence which surrounds you.

Poppy cock says you….
Where does your food and water come from? Your heat? Your clothes?
Just because you can’t imagine how this could occur does not mean it can’t happen.
In fact your inability to grasp the facts has resulted in the planet spinning further out of control than you ever thought possible say 10 years ago.
The ice caps are melting….Our boundless supply of oil is not boundless… Our population is poisoned by industrial by products… Our government is more authoritarian…The American dream is a credit card… We feel no unity…

So good luck fools, take your sedatives, buy something pretty, fuss over meaningless details, and kiss your ass goodbye. This pinnacle species is well on its way to collapse.

Crying, in my garden.

[Vilis Veritas]

1. Don't cry.

There is still good in the world and in America.

It is what we fight for each day.

Hope.

[Deja Q]

2. Yes, but would you ever want to be friends with me?

:rofl:

[robinlynne]

3. What kills me is that other species are going extinct now. And we humans are acting as if that is

bearable. 23% of mammal species are now endangered. (From a science show on pbs)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EOTE]

21. Easy there...

I don't know if I agree 100% with the OP, but I certainly don't discount what he has to say. We have been living for quite some time outside the levels of sustainability. That, combined with a rapidly growing population seems to spell trouble to me. When collapses come, it's usually not a very gradual thing, it tends to come all at once. I don't know how close we are to a collapse, but I wouldn't be surprised when it's here.

[havocmom]

29. Here's a coupon. Go buy a new frock and forget about what the OP said

Yeah, that's a plan. Go shopping like bush suggested. Don't give any real thought to how most of the people in the world live. Delude yourself that it can't happen here, while it IS happening here.

[Fly by night]

33. The difference between me and the OPer and her/his fellow travelers ...

... is that I don't view our situation as hopeless or unsolvable. In fact, I believe what we do as individuals (and have done for decades now) -- how WE choose to live (individually, as families and as communities) -- can make a profound difference.

I haven't been shopping in a long while. But I did eat food for breakfast/lunch that I grew myself.

See this thread if you want to know where I am coming from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2101172

Or not.

Sorry, I don't have any coupons to give you -- those are only valuable if you're in a shopping mood. But I'd gladly send you and the OPer a jar of homemade jam to sweeten your perspective on life.

[jaksavage]

36. Thanks for words and link.

I wish I could overwhelm my sense of loss. But it doesn't go away.
Too much evil.
The good is a miniscule speck in the USA.
But good on you and we share many things, though a continent apart.
But my kin folk, the Williams's, came from appalacia.
Peace, where you can find it.

[sandnsea]

5. That's it in a nutshell

We are the problem. I would add that we are lulled to sleep by a global elite that believe they will never suffer the consequences when the collapse comes. So they keep pillaging onward, and distract us and entertain us and lie to us, and let us pretend that we're effecting real change by electing another one of them.

[Initech]

6. I agree, consumerism is a horrible way to live.

In fact, I have 3 rules that I live by:

1. I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing. Not a thing.

2. I don't take the media very seriously, and in the case of this stupid-ass war, they've become nothing more than a PR firm for the Pentagon.

3. I also don't take the marketing and advertising agency very seriously either. It's just become the selling and marketing of fattening foods and stupid, expensive shit we don't need.

[Akoto]

7. Humanity is not headed for collapse. Extinction is not near.

The fact is, humanity will survive, even under global conditions so bad that society collapses. We are one of the most adaptive species on the planet when pressed to be so. Unfortunately, we are also one of the most mentally pliant, with constant manipulation leading us toward a gluttonous way of life. The day will come that there's absolutely no alternative but to live differently, particularly when the gains outweigh the economic benefits, and so we will.

If global warming should bring on dramatic climate change, we'll make it through. Humanity survived the Ice Age - most assuredly a harsher environment than what we have today - with less evolved brains and far more primitive technologies. Yes, many people who are physically or mentally incapable of coping will die, but it's highly unlikely that it would be the end of the species. Things will change, and we will go on. Chances are, harsh as this may sound, the planet and our species will both be much improved as a result of the thinning population.

Sorry, I just don't buy into all of the 'we're doomed, there's no hope' stuff. Besides often being exaggerated, I don't see what benefit it offers.

[patrice]

9. Definition of terms please: "We"? nt

[Akoto]

10. Um, humanity in general. n/t

[patrice]

18. Sounds kind of fuzzy to me. nt

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

23. I know we're not all doomed

but we tend to worry about ourselves. :)
Will I survive? Will I be able to keep warm, safe and fed when the system collapses? It's always about I in our culture..............speaking of I, I agree with you :toast:
The earth will take it's own measures if we don't smarten up and some of us will make it through to carry on again.

[truedelphi]

25. Thank you. Every age stares so intently into the limitations of its age

That it does not see the progress arriving with the future.

Google "EcoWatts" and Great Britain - you'll discover that a new technology may actually be able to give a 150 to 200% return on whatever energy it consumes. Great Britain might be using this system to heat homes for its poor. (In the UK there exists an entire division that does nothing but provide utilities for the nation's poor - they have an incentive to find alternatives that work
and work cheaply.

Back in the 1890's, the steam ship lines were trying to push their ocean liners so that they could shave off two or three hours from the World Record in conquering the distance between England and New York City.

In fact, one of the reasons that the Titantic sank in 1912 was that no decent sea captain would take the safer route in the south - that would add far too many hours onto the travel time. The Titantic's owner wanted his ship to take the world's record.

Twenty-five years later, this thinking was obsolete. Airplanes travelled that route and no one had to worry about ice bergs sinking their travel plans.

We are in this myopic situation with regards to energy. Yes, we can all lamant the "fact" that Peak Oil is now in decline. (I'm not even sure it is - a vast reservoir of oil exists in the islands north of Japan. Russian oil experts say that this will allow Russia and its trading partners oil until about 2050 at least.)

But rather than focus on diminishing peak oil, the alternatives will win the day.

And please nay sayers - I lived in Silicon Valley when a personal computer came with less than a Meg. And you pretty much had to be a programmer to use it.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. you are probably correct, but that doesn't

change the very legitimate criticisms in the OP-

Are humans all that matters?

If 'we' survive, while decimating the existence of other species not out of 'need' but out of perverted ...'desire'.... what does that say about this savage,rogue animal known as "man"- kind?

What benefit do posts like the OP's serve? Well, what benefit does not taking out a bunch of credit cards and maxing them out because you have terminal cancer-? Or burning down your house because you don't want to live there anymore? Why not just leave your car on the side of the road when it gets too old, or breaks down?

We aren't the only creatures on this earth, we just act like we are.

:shrug:

[bryant69]

8. Yeah but that's agood thing

I mean the only problem with humanity is that we aren't killing ourselves off fast enough.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Scriptor Ignotus]

11. repent now for the end is near!

where's your sandwich board? people have been saying similar things for eons.

what you listed are a bunch of challenges we have to overcome. that's it. our doom has not been set anymore than it was thousands of years ago when prophets were predicting the End Times in the Old Testament.

[jaksavage]

13. I have a sandwich board.

I stand on street corners , my car has public service announcemnets in the windows painted with shoe polish.
Yup I am a nut.
I also recieve 99% positive feedback from those who see me and my nutty signs.

The problem is there aren't enough "nuts".

[2rth2pwr]

12. Don't cry

[jaksavage]

15. Oh my god

Your cat picture could be a pic of my cats. really.

[patrice]

41. Thanks for the cat pic! nt

[MindPilot]

14. AAAAAAIIIIEEE we're all going to parish!!!111

And before you know it we'll be diocesed!!


:hide:

[cyberswede]

20. LOL!! n/t

[CrispyQ]

16. ...

It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
~Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

24. Hey! :)

That's the same thing as "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise"

[patrice]

17. Even if your scenario is not literally true,

my experience is that we are coming up against more than one limitation, not only environmental perhaps, but also psychological.

Given whatever the probabilities are, for whatever kind of changes are headed our way, the real questions are what to do.

First steps are relatively obvious things such as: use less plastic at every opportunity, consume less of everything, grow or make your own, carpooling or mass transit, etc. etc. etc. but I think one of the limiting factors on these "to do"s is the perception of "what for?", i.e. the pay off. And because less climate change is so hypothetical and distant, the most immediate "to do"s don't get done, so we need a more immediate pay off to incentivise behavior. What could those more immediate pay offs be?

One of my personal answers to that question is: I would change all kinds of my behaviors if I knew those behaviors were linked to specific kinds of economic relationships that I have decided are directly a part of my, and my family's, future. Call them "communes" if you can't think of a better word, but I think that particular word is wrong, because it has too many connotations that are not what I intend to be part of my future.

So, I think we need to begin right now to define "Intentional Communities" that implement the kinds of behavioral changes that we agree upon amongst ourselves along with con-commitant sustainable economic relationships that are also the product of grassroots level agreements amongst cooperative members.

[Mrs. Overall]

19. I agree. Consumerism is destroying us and the impact on the planet as a whole is monumental.

[cyberswede]

22. Yep

And I resent being thought of as a consumer rather than a citizen (by TPTB).

[GrannyK]

46. From the Producer to The Consumer

I once knew a man who retired from a very large conglomerate, with a comfortable income, to a wilderness area and had a very small carbon footprint. (That term had not been coined then.) He had been so programed to believe that his 'worth' had been drastically reduced because he was no longer a "producer" and only a "consumer." He lived in a paradise like setting and produced, from a garden and orchards and hunting, much of his own food (which he shared) and used NO electricity. He lamented the fact often that because he no longer produced a commodity for sale and consumption by others, his worth had diminished considerably. Three years after he retired he developed cancer and was gone within six months.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. And the consumerist ideology is one of the major stumbling blocks to alleviating global climate chan

"Yeah, yeah, global warming. I buy fluorescent light bulbs, but I REALLY NEED that SUV, and I MUST own a house, even though the only one I can afford is 50 miles away from where I work, bla-bla-bla."

[Bluerthanblue]

27. a prophet is never welcome in his home town- but the message

still needs to be given.

Thank you for taking the time to say this-

And screw the jokes about your spelling and grammar.

peace~
blu

[AngryAmish]

28. Rev. Malthus, how nice of you to join us

You have many followers around here.

[dysfunctional press]

30. and i ask you- where does your computer come from?

sit back and enjoy the ride- it's going to get VERY interesting VERY soon.

and wealth isn't going to save anyone for very long.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. did everyone miss the word IF in this post???

or is the ugly truth just too much to face, so we'll attempt to kill the messenger???

.......If we can’t control ourselves, which I doubt we can, Mother Nature is going to slap us down. Unfortunately it won’t be the worst wasters who die first it will be the little people,.........

[joshcryer]

34. The planet isn't going anywhere.

And humanity will adapt.

[LanternWaste]

35. When someone sermonizes to me regarding environmental awareness...

When someone sermonizes to me regarding environmental awareness, stewardship of planet, and a collective, cultural penchant for conspicuous consumption while other starve, I can only assume one of two things...

1. That person engages in a subsistence lifestyle-- owns only those things directly necessary for survival while at the time eschewing the geegaw's of modern life (e.g, computers, i-pods, cars, underwear, utensils, etc.)

or

2. That person is being rather hypocritical on the subject, regardless of whether he or she is aware of it or not.

So, it seems to me that while some take solace in sedatives and designer blue jeans, others take that same solace in preaching what they themselves do not practice. Six of one and half a dozen of the other and all that...

[Amonester]

37. Kick!

"All of this junk is just junk"

And it's killing us, slowly, gradually, one day, one night, the following day, the following night, and on, and on...

The world is heading in the wrong direction, lead by US, and the rising Far-East Asian economies.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

38. I like truth

It can suck royal ass to confront it, but then... what is the alternative? This sudo-fascist nowhere-land? I'll opt for truth and action.

[treestar]

39. We are wasteful

No two ways about that.

I just got back from a visit to Europe.

We had a lot of space, and so we have no sense of conserving it.

Everybody was slim. They walked everywhere. The undergrounds train systems had tons of stairs and long hallways and the sidewalks were full of people walking. If not that, there were motorcycles and mopeds and mini-cars.

The suburbs are our downfall. We can't walk anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. We drive big cars and they take up space and use a lot of fuel.

[RebelSansCause]

40. well

let's start changing people. it's gotta come from somewhere. obviously if the "leaders" of the country will not take it up, we will vote them out.

[porphyrian]

42. And we're all gonna die. -n/t

[alittlelark]

43. EEEEKKKKKK!!!!

(running in circles pulling out hair)

[earth mom]

44. I agree that we here in the USA have all and more than we could ever need or want.

I consider myself fairly frugal-not cheap-and not that much the kind of consumer Madison Avenue is keen on selling to. I like stuff, but the kind of stuff I like is vintage, antique or creative in some way. I just posted on another thread some the things I recently bought that were made in China along with some vintage/recycled items that I came across. I don't live in a McMansion, have a big screen TV, drive a new SUV or wear designer duds, and while I would consider most if not all my purchases "necessary", I still feel somewhat guilty about them.

Compared to many people in this country, I don't have all that much & certainly NEVER EVER what the Jones have. But compared to other people on this planet, I have more than enough, probably way too much. I often ask myself if I could walk away from it all? And if I did, would I feel freer? Would I feel more in touch with the earth, with people that lived before and with all of humanity?

I'm rambling here, but I do want to add that one of the best books I've ever read was a book called "Into the Forest" -where exactly what you speak of has become reality and civilization as we know it has totally broken down.


I think about that book-A LOT-especially these days...


http://www.amazon.com/Into-Forest-Jean-Hegland/dp/0553379615/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1530457-0863251?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193470451&sr=8-1

[Beerboy]

45. Why would you assume everyone else lives as you do?

I'll agree that America is a horrible blight, but it's occupied by Individuals.