Would you "pass" as a white man if you could?

[mondo joe]

Poll question: Would you "pass" as a white man if you could?

As a gay man, my opinion is that "passing" as straight is a demeaning thing to do that ultimately feeds homophobia and hurts those who do it. It also contributes to isolation of gays - especially kids - who have fewer known role models or community members. I don't even know that it's really possible most of the time anyway - like many gay people, everyone knew I was gay, even little kids in grade school.

But I am told it is a luxury and I should be happy about the ability to closet myself.

Would it be appealing to you if you had the choice?

[Forkboy]

1. I just try to pass as human....to mixed results.

:)

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Um...

...what?:crazy:

[mondo joe]

3. If you have a particular question I will be glad to try to clarify.

[hedgehog]

4. I am a white woman and I've had to pass as a white man

I am an engineer, and as part of my job I've had to

- sit quietly as men told off color stories to each other in my presence

- not make a fuss when the nearest ladies' room was 1/4 mile away (it was a big plant)

- remain calm as men screamed in my face (no kidding - men can scream but if a woman shows any emotion ..)

- come to work each day while my kid was in the hospital

[Raine]

37. Geesh that sucks

I think I would feel like "going postal" ... you're a stronger woman than I am to be able to handle that. :pals:

[mark414]

5. i get your point, i agree with you

nobody should have to be closeted, or even think that they need to be closeted

but it's not the same thing

[undeterred]

6. This poll makes me want to vote for Hillary.

:shrug:

[demnan]

7. I voted option 2

I was friends with a boy in high school and he went out of state in college and he told his college friends he was engaged to me, which was weird, as we didn't have a sexual or even girlfriend boyfriend relationship. We did have a good friendship.

I called him on this and told him I didn' appreciate it getting back to my friends as I had a boyfriend at the time. I knew he went to gay bars from time to time with an openly gay friend of ours, I didn't ask about the situation at the time. I was 18 and I didn't really have the experience or social skills to ask about his sexuality at that point in my life. This was in the 70's and things were different then.

But it broke up our friendship. The lying was wrong on his part and I'm sorry he felt forced to do this. I wasn't prepared as well to deal with it.

He later married a woman in our town and they had a child and my friend died young of brain cancer, I was told. I lost touch but heard this. I wonder what his relationship with her was, and sometimes I wonder if it was really brain cancer.

People should be honest about these things. I would have accepted him telling me, "I'm gay," and we would have continued to be good friends, and it would have been a lot better than the lying.

[Annces]

8. I wouldn't mind passing as a man

if I were making a cross-country trip or other place where I might get harassed as a woman.

[Bucky]

9. Can you please pass the jelly?

Ah'm hongree!!

[Catherine Vincent]

10. I'll pass on this poll.

:)

[papau]

11. What shade becomes "of color" and what shade is "white"? Why not pass as yourself? n/t

n/t

[mondo joe]

12. I have some ideas, but those who tell me it's a luxury to pass might have other

opinions, so I guess better to leave it up to you to decide for yourself.

[papau]

38. We have many shades in the family - and my observation is that this is common n/t

n/t

[SoCalDem]

13. Can I be a RICH white man?

I'd think about it for a while then :)

[mondo joe]

15. I said "pass as" - not "be".

;-)

[SoCalDem]

20. Well SHIT.. I thought you were offering me an opportunity

:)

[distantearlywarning]

14. I chose Other.

I am a white woman, and I don't feel particularly stigmatized or oppressed because of my gender. I would like society to treat women better in some ways, but it's not bad enough to make me want to pass as a man.

However, I feel very stigmatized because of my weight. If I could "pass" as a thin girl, I would do it in a nanosecond, with no regrets. (And for the fat bigots out there on DU, FYI I have a metabolic condition for which I take medication every day. Much of my weight gain can be attributed to this condition, and it also makes it very difficult for me to lose weight. So I don't want to hear all about how I could "become white/male/straight" (so to speak) if I just tried hard enough.) Having once been skinny, I know exactly how fat people are treated differently from thin people, and it hurts. I think it might have been better if I had just been fat from the beginning, just like I was female from the beginning. Maybe it wouldn't be so clear just how much stigma and oppression there is and I would be happy with myself, like I am happy being a woman. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[ecstatic]

16. When it's convenient for financial/social gain, sure

Certainly, nothing long term because I LOVE who I am... Just as a tool of convenience every now and then...

[Toasterlad]

17. If Being Gay Has Taught Me Anything, It's That You Have to Be Happy With Who and What You Are.

[izquierdista]

18. Other....

What can a tall, middle aged white male pass for?

I can pass as a Norteamericano who is ignorant of Spanish until I open my mouth and chime in with the Mexicans.

I can pass as a Mexican, but only one of the higher class -- full European heritage.

I used to pass as straight when the bouncer at a gay club would ask me if I knew this was a gay establishment.

I used to pass as gay when a gay acquaintance introduced me to other friends of his.

I could pass as a fascist redneck if I would just nod my head in agreement and keep my mouth shut.

I can pass as a member of any religious group if I just bow my head and repeat the right phrases.

I can pass as a blue collar worker by talking about sports, women, and how I hate this job.

I can pass as a white collar worker by saying I'm late for a meeting and have to rush off to do my TPS reports.

I can pass as an intellectual university type by launching off into an esoteric discussion on a boring topic.

I've discovered that I can't pass as just background where I am the only white person around for miles.

While I can pass for being 10 years younger, I can't pass for being 25 years younger.

I can always pass for a tourist, anywhere, if I want to.

I could never pass as a woman, not even with Mrs. Doubtfire's help.

What would be appealing is to be like Zelig and be able to pass as anybody, anywhere, anytime. That way, you see how much you are judged on superficial appearances and not on your value as an individual. If it means that much to people that you have to pass for something that is not in your character, then those people are undeserving of knowing the real you. "Passing" doesn't hurt the people who do it, on the contrary, it helps them to slide past people who are of no real consequence.

[0rganism]

19. So this tall black guy is shipwrecked on a beach, and a magic lamp washes ashore...

what, you don't know the joke already? OK, I'll finish, but it's highly inappropriate.

He rubs the lamp, and a powerful genie pops out, offering to grant the man a typical slate of three wishes.

The guy thinks for a bit, and says, "Make me short, white, and between Keira Knightley's* thighs."

So the genie turns him into a tampon...

EOJ

*- insert name of current famous "hot actress/model/bimbo" du jour; when I first heard the joke (4th grade?) it was a '70s pinup, Cheryl Tiegs maybe. I picked Knightley because of a similar reference on Robot Chicken.

[Evoman]

21. I already pass as a white man.

I'm not white, I wasn't raised by white people, and I've never considered myself a white person. However, my sis and I LOOK like white people (only ones!), unlike my dark, short family members, due to my moms german blood. I'm also very educated, and have lost my accent, which makes people think I'm white.

It's been interesting. I'm one of the few people in my family who haven't been harrased by cops or other authority figures. I HATE being in small groups of white people who think I'm white because I'll almost always hear something racist. Usually, it doesn't happen around educated university people (but it has). One time, I was around a group of university students who didn't know I was latino, and they started talking about their East Indian lab mates who "stink" and how they hated Indians in the lab because "they always smell".

I'm so tired of racism. As a person of another race who can pass as white, I think I often hear more shit than most people of minorities do.

On edit: Oh yeah..one time I was at a christian youth group, and I heard one jack ass talking about "dirty spics". I had him up against the wall and would have beaten the shit out of him, if the others wouldn't have stopped me.

[mondo joe]

22. "You must be saying that because you think I'm white" was always my mother's line

when I was growing up, in response to those kind of comments.

[Rex]

23. Other

I am an alien trapped on a fucked up planet.

[Rosemary2205]

24. WTF?????

"Pass" as white? What is this? 1950? Exactly how many drops of "black" blood makes me "black"?

What an incredibly offensive thread title.

[mondo joe]

26. Then you're not getting it. NT

[Rosemary2205]

31. I got the point fine.

I'm telling you that your point is assinine because labels (chosen by someone other than the individual) are assinine. IMHO.

If I choose to label myself that can be just as limiting - IMHO.

[mondo joe]

32. No, you didn't. Thanks!

[Rosemary2205]

33. Says the amazing Creskin.

[mondo joe]

34. Go tell it to the asshole who said gays have a luxury in being able to "pass" that

blacks don't share.

And it's Kreskin. :-)

[Rosemary2205]

35. *I'm* not that asshole

if you'd stop fighting with me because someone else pissed you off then you might actually see my point too. (and I DID get yours).

Thanks for the spelling lesson. LOL :)

[mondo joe]

36. I don't think so.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so - since my question had everything to do with perception and nothing to do with drops of blood.

:-)

[Chovexani]

28. What's that sound?

Oh, right, it's the point sailing right over your head.

The point of the poll is to show how ridiculous and offensive it is when straight people minimize GLBT concerns by stating that we don't have it that bad because we can just "pass" for straight.

But thanks for playing.

[Canuckistanian]

25. Not sure I'm getting the point of this

Am I happy that I'm a SWM?

And if I were gay or a woman or a minority would I be happy if I could conceal that?

From what I know about DUers here, I don't think I would be.

[Bluebear]

27. I believe regarding this: in which people say you can "pass" if you're gay but not if you're black

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2165256

[Canuckistanian]

29. Ah, I see

But still, self-respect must trump acceptance at some point.

[Colobo]

30. Yes, in certain situations.

I have to admit being white in many situations is more beneficial than being black.

[pitohui]

39. apparently i'm odd but i would pass in a minute if i could

in many situations on the internet i DO pass as a white male and it does make a difference in how you are treated

if i could have passed as a male IRL it would have changed my life

hell i'd be a millionaire today just for starters

choice is always better than not having a choice, for me, i did not choose to be considered inferior because of my gender, background, time and place of birth, maybe young women today of the right class can earn an equal income but that was not an option for a woman of my class and generation -- and i'm sorry, but yes, i would go in the closet in a minute to have all the options and opportunities that money can bring

[Wiley50]

40. As Frank Zappa oncee said:

" I ain't black, but there's been a bunch of times that I"ve wished I could say that I ain't white"