Autopsy: Gotbaum Airport Death an accident

[geek_sabre]

http://wcbstv.com/local/gotbaum.phone.records.2.564324.html

PHOENIX- Six weeks after a hysterical Carol Anne Gotbaum died in a holding cell at Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport, a medical examiner on Friday ruled she was intoxicated by alcohol and prescription pills and that she accidentally strangled herself. The official cause: Asphyxia by hanging.

Carol Anne Gotbaum, the 45-year-old stepdaughter of NYC Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum, was arrested for disorderly conduct after becoming irate when she missed a connecting flight that would have taken her to an alcohol treatment center. Surveillance video showed the mother of three struggling with police, who handcuffed and shackled the screaming woman to a holding cell bench and left her alone.

When they returned, they found her in a sleeping position, with the chains of the handcuffs around her neck.

In the autopsy report released Friday, the Maricopa County, Ariz., Medical Examiner noted bruises on the upper body and wrote that Gotbaum's neck had, "... no fewer than five patterned impressions on the skin..." and that there was an "indentation of the skin of the right neck in the area of the overlaying abrasions..."

[bluerum]

1. They got away with murder.

[pnwmom]

5. It's not over. We haven't heard from the family's pathologist yet.

[onenote]

64. now we have

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/111207dntsw.27b8f16.html

And the family's pathologist confirms the medical examiner's report regarding how she managed to accidentally strangle herself. The family's pathologist goes on to make a number of other assertions assigning blame to the cops for letting the situation get to the point it did, but maybe we can put the "murder" claims to rest.

[onenote]

58. is that your expert opinion or just your unsubstantiated speculation?

[bluerum]

59. You can't see me but I am flipping you off,,,

[pnwmom]

2. Did they ignore her screams for help?

Why do they assume this was suicide? How likely is it that she deliberately figured out that she could kill herself in this bizarre manner? Isn't it much more likely she was trying to escape her shackles, and in doing so got herself twisted up?

Their own reports say that they were hearing her scream, and only went in to check on her after she had stopped screaming for several minutes.

Was she screaming for help? The room had a window through which anyone could have checked on her. Why didn't they keep a better watch on her?

[Bobbieo]

8. What is the matter with you people????? Here we go again!!!

The woman was drinking on the flight from New York to Phoenix - like I knew she would be. I watched my own daughter die of alcoholism and the last thing I would ever have done is to put her on a plane - by herself -to fly to Tucson to a rehab center.

I lived through all the lies and excuses an alcoholic puts out to get a drink - she didn't - and do you honestly think she was going to turn down a drink when the stewardess came by for her order.

Her husband never should have put her on that plane by herself. I don't care what she promised him she would do and who really knows what his motive was when he put her on the plane.

It's just great to place all the blame on the cops. God knows I hate the bastards probably worse than you do and with good reason BUT you can't blame them for everything. The poor woman was drunk and out of control! I have had to physically fight off my own daughter when she became violent and oh the damage - the broken windows - broken furniture.

But go ahead and blame anyone you want to ---- it's too late now, anyway. It is the stupidity that gets me.

[pnwmom]

9. She was drunk and mentally out of control. But physically, she was in THEIR control.

When they put the cuffs on her, she was in their physical custody. It was their job to keep her safe. They could have kept a watch on her through the window and they failed to do so.

You haven't addressed my question. Did they ignore screams for help? We'll probably never know. But I bet there are some guilty consciences out there -- or at least there should be.

[jberryhill]

12. Who "Screams for Help" While Being Strangled?

If she could "scream for help", she wasn't asphyxiating.

The ME report is here:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/city_room/20071109_gotbaumautopsy.pdf

What this really needs, and which I haven't seen, is a diagram of the handcuff / leg-shackle arrangement. It wasn't just handcuffs, but I don't understand the relationships between the handcuffs and leg chains set forth in the verbal description.

But, no, if someone is screaming, they are not asphyxiating. It was after she was quiet for a few minutes that they checked in on her.

[pnwmom]

15. She could have screamed for help just prior to strangling,

as she was realizing that she was tangled up. That's what I'm saying.

That's the least bad option.

Among the others is that she died due to a choke-hold, and they covered that up with the chain-strangling scenario.

[jberryhill]

18. Except the ME would be able to distinguish the difference...

...between a choke-hold injury and chain strangling.

Did you read the .pdf I linked?

First 94 pages of reports, including witness statements:

http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280136.pdf

Another 14 pages:

http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280165.pdf

I strongly recommend looking at what her husband was worried about.

[TorchTheWitch]

30. everything explained in detail here...

POLICE REPORT:

Part One - 94 page pdf file
http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280136.pdf

Part Two - 14 page pdf file
http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280165.pdf

Includes reports from officers, TSA agents, passengers, various evidence collected, phone call transcripts, etc.


A lot of reading, but it's very enlightening.


On Edit - oops, realized you had already read the PR from a post downthread. What I gather from the discription of the handcuffs and leg chain is that they used the leg chain as a tether to keep her in one place in the cell so she wouldn't bounce off the walls (and her behavior indicated it was necessary). She had the handcuffs on her wrists in the usual way. One end of the leg chain was attached to the floor or the bench (can't recall which). The cuff on the other end of the leg chain they attached to the short center chain between the two handcuffs (sort of like a dog leash except the end attached to Carol was fixed between her wrists).

Make sense?

[Richard Steele]

10. Once in police custody, she became the police's RESPONSIBILTY.

And part of that responsibility includes taking steps
to prevent sucicidal and/or unbalanced people from
harming themselves.

That's just how it works.

[treestar]

47. Exactly - if they had checked on her this would not have happened

If she was hysterical and all that, why did they leave her alone long enough?

[StarryNite]

25. Yeah, everything that you said.

Bottom line, her husband knew she was out of control and he should have gone with her.

[Richard Steele]

29. Wrong. "Bottom line" is: once the cuffs went on, she was in control: POLICE control.

Police have a legal (and moral) responsibility to see
to the health and well-being of persons in their custody.

That responsibility demands that they take SPECIAL pains
to look after persons who are behaving irrationally, for
whatever reason.
This is not some loony-liberal bleeding-heart wish, it
is WELL-ESTABLISHED LAW.

And it's something every single "jail employee" deals with
every single day. SUCCESSFULLY, for the most part....to the
extent they TRY to fulfill their legal responsibilities.

[StarryNite]

35. It never should have gotten to that point.

Had her husband or another responsible adult accompanied her the whole thing never would have happened. She obviously had big problems. That's why she was headed for rehab to begin with. Then for her to take medication and get drunk en route proves she never should have been sent by herself. I can't imagine sending a loved one off by herself knowing she had those kind of problems and just assuming it would turn out fine. What if she would have made it on the plane and something else set her off while in flight? Certainly you have seen the video of her freaking out in the terminal. Picture that on an airplane. It wasn't fair to her or to the public in general to let her go alone.

[Richard Steele]

55. Your point is entirely irrelevant, because it DID get to that point.

Once in police custody, her well-being was a POLICE responsibility.

That's not a "what if", it's WHAT HAPPENED.

[piesRsquare]

31. Excellent post

:applause:

[Skittles]

56. I agree with you

it was unconscionable that she was alone

[brokensymmetry]

3. Two words: Cover. Up.

There will, clearly, be no justice in this case.

[pnwmom]

4. The idea that anyone could deliberately kill themselves in this matter

is so far-fetched. Who, with their hands chained behind their back, would ever think they could maneuver themselves into a strangling position?

[geek_sabre]

6. it wasnt ruled a suicide...nt

[jberryhill]

13. Who said it was deliberate?

She had depression issues, and was on a mix of drugs and alcohol, but nobody said it was deliberate.

[pnwmom]

16. Many people have suggested that it was suicide, and suicide is deliberate. n/t

[jberryhill]

21. Yes - before he knew what had happened, her husband thought she might...

http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280136.pdf

He was calling around, because she had already called him in a state he described as a "nervous breakdown", and was trying to convey warnings to the police about her condition:

page 38

Mr. Gotbaum: I MEAN WHAT... WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, UHM, SHE IS IN A REALLY REALLY... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... MEDICAL STATE AND, UH

<...>

IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT, UHM, AND THEY DON'T KNOW THE BACKGROUND, UHM, THIS IS A VERY SITUATION WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW.

<...>

CAN YOU... CAN YOU TELL THEM PLEASE THAT -- THAT SHE IS IN A MEDI... MEDICAL EMERGENCY?

<...>

AND THAT, UHM, AND THAT I NEED TO DISCUSS THAT WITH THEM BECAUSE...

<...>

THEY'RE PLAYING WITH REAL FIRE RIGHT NOW.

<...>

UHM, I MEAN I REALLY THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY CALL ME BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DEALING WITH -- WITH, YOU KNOW, JUST A NORMAL SITUATION OF SOMEONE BEING...

<...>

YEAH, I --- I REALLY HAVE TO, UH, I AGAIN, THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS... WHOIS, UHM, UH, SUICIDAL

So, yes, in a sense you are correct, others have suggested suicide. The first person who suggested it was her own husband after receiving an initial phone call from her.

However, the ME thinks it was accidental.

[LisaL]

41. Well, maybe that's because her husband said she was suicidal.

By the way, I believe her death is ruled accidental, not suicide.

[leftchick]

7. CNN reported today she missed her flight

I thought she was denied boarding because it was overbooked?

[pnwmom]

11. There is a dispute about that. She arrived at the gate in what should have

been plenty of time to board (25 minutes ahead of her connecting flight, and the written policy called for 15.) She was told that her seat had been taken; now the airline is claiming they hadn't overbooked, that she was just late.

[LisaL]

48. That flight was at 1:13, not at 1:30 as originally reported.

Thus, she did not arrive at the gate 25 minutes before the flight.

[Eric J in MN]

14. Was she double-jointed? How did she supposedly get the handcuffs behind her...

...over her neck?

[jberryhill]

22. Over her neck?

The handcuff chain was connected to one end of a Peerless Leg Iron:

http://www.peerless.net/product_detail.epl?product_id=12

The other end of the leg iron was connected to an eyebolt positioned on a table.

IMHO, she didn't go "over her neck", but under her feet. The leg irons have 15 inches of chain.

[Eric J in MN]

24. Thanks. But you do you understand how she supposedly strangled herself after...

...getting the handcuffs in front of her?

Was she supposed to be trying to break the chain with her neck?

[jberryhill]

61. Dunno.. I'd like to see a demo

Her husband was frantically trying to reach the police and tell them that she was suicidal. Given the alcohol and drugs in her system, she may very well have been trying something irrational or gotten tangled up.

[soothsayer]

17. Wasn't there a witness who said she looked unconscious (or dead) after they knelt on her back?

I believe this is a coverup.

[ShortnFiery]

20. And it's only beginning. Beware Citizens! Our AG condones "Drowning Torture"

Certain minorities already know that their very SURVIVAL rests on their complete submissiveness to our illustrious *authorities.* :evilgrin:

[scarface2004]

19. yeah sure whatever!!

whitewash

[aikoaiko]

23. I hope the ME is correct and the evidence is clear to all who followup.

Bad enough to learn your mother/wife died accidentally, so much worse to learn it was homicide. I still don't understand exactly how she strangled herself. I think I need a diagram.

I have to agree that it is the police's job to take reasonable measures to prevent something like this from happening. I can understand leaving her alone if they thought the "audience" was encouraging her to rant and rave, but cameras in holding rooms should be standard operating procedure. Plus video would likely clear up what happened.

[StarryNite]

26. I can't understand why her husband

didn't go with her. He knew her background, the police didn't.

[aikoaiko]

34. Yes, she should have been escorted, but here is why I think she wasn't

I've seen it before.

She had been to rehab a couple of times before and relapsed. Families often are "there" for the drunk initially. They go to family week, they go to alanon, they go to group therapy, etc. And the drunk relapses and causes much stress. Many drunks will push their families and spouses to the edge and they become incredulous of the next attempt to get sober and are unwilling to disrupt their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if her husband had made ultimatums about her taking responsibility for herself.

Of course, I'm just speculating about her family's responses to her multiple attempts to get sober, but its a common one.

Plus, we know this. She was initially supposed to be on a direct flight from NY to Tucson where missing connecting flights would have been a nonissue. But she canceled that flight at the last minute because, reportedly, she wanted to drive her kids to school and say good bye one more time. I can just imagine her telling her husband that and him saying that he can't get off of work that day, but she had better get on the flight.

[Indi Guy]

27. I'm not one to rush to judgment..

..but I'm always suspicious when people die in the custody of authorities. It's so easy for these people to use excessive force & cover up their misdeeds.

I want a law demanding that every arrest is videotaped throughout the entire chain of custody - from arrest through incarceration in local jail.

After all, we civilians have to deal with video-cameras from the street-corner to the airport!

Why should police be immune from at least the same level of scrutiny? Who are they protecting & serving, when they are less accountable than those they are hired to protect and serve?!

:wtf:

[mvccd1000]

28. BAC of .24% AND prescription drugs in her system?

She was a wreck looking for a place to happen.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1110gotbaum1110.html

Carol Anne Gotbaum, 45, was severely intoxicated on alcohol and prescription drugs when she accidentally choked herself to death in a police holding room at a Phoenix airport, a report released Friday said. The Maricopa County medical examiner's report listed Gotbaum's official cause of death as "asphyxia due to hanging." Her blood-alcohol level was 0.24 percent, three times Arizona's 0.08 percent legal limit for driving.

I agree that the police should have kept a closer eye on her, and I'll bet some of them DO have guilty consciences, but the bottom line is that this lady was too drunk to drive, too drunk to be flying, and too drunk to even be out in public. She (and her absent family) bear the blame for this one.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

36. Agreed. Why wasn't anyone in her family accompanying her?

Sure, the police should have monitored her better but she should never have been in that airport unescorted in the first place.

[StarryNite]

37. Exactly!

It never would have gotten to the point that it did had she been accompanied by somebody who would have seen to it that she didn't drink en route to rehab. She was a time bomb waiting to go off. And now her family and many other people are ready to put the blame on the police when it never should gotten that far. Then her husband made some ludicrous comment asking why nobody gave her a hug while she was freaking out. :eyes:

[LisaL]

40. Wow. With that alcohol level, she was close to getting to a point

where alcohol itself can kill.
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/alc_aayb.htm
Frankly, I personally find it very difficult to feel sorry for that woman. She was going to rehab, yet had that much alcohol in her system?

[jberryhill]

62. Well... that's why she was going to rehab /nt

[dailykoff]

32. Suicide. Case closed.

Now shut up and go home.


:heavy sarcasm:

[Vinca]

33. The bottom line is that because of her crazed condition,

they should have stationed a guard to watch over her. At the very, very least she should have been observed on closed circuit television. Even if it's a suicide, they're responsible.

[Mutineer]

38. They had an angry drunk on their hands

how were they supposed to know she was "mentally fragile" as well? Her family DID know that and they chose to let her make the trek to AZ by herself when I'm sure the clinic provided such services and they certainly had the money to pay for them or have someone do it for them. Instead, they let her go by herself, knowing all the while she was in a very fragile mental state and would no doubt have access to liquor on her way. The police didn't know those facts until after her death. Apparently DU is just full of enablers.

[Vinca]

39. No, actually DU has at least one former cop who has dealt

with similar situations. You don't leave a batshit crazy/drunk person in handcuffs by themselves in a cell. It's not rocket science.

[StarryNite]

42. But had her husband

done the right thing she wouldn't have been traveling by herself and getting smashed along the way. He was negligent. He let the batshit crazy person leave home alone. But he can't accept responsibility for his own negligence so he blames it on the police and most likely will try to get some money out of it with a lawsuit.

[TAZller]

43. Who is to say....

that the husband had any more control of this woman than the police did whom felt it necessary to handcuff and shackle her after missing a flight. It is highly presumptive (and clearly indicating you've never seen a loved one at their bottom) in assuming this was a trip that could be made with the husband along. Often prior to getting help addicts will push friends and family so far away that all they can do is watch them either spiral out of control or hope they help themselves. It is conceivable that she demanded to make this trip alone and on her own tems. She could have flipped out and never given him the opportunity to join her.... What do you suggest...the husband tie her up and drag her by her hair into treatment. He was likely very worried about her, but even a husband can only do so much in the face of irrationality. To blame him is akin to blaming a drug addicts family for allowing one to commit suicide. At some point personal responsibility of the addict must be exercised to its own end.

But the point is she died when she was rendered helpless while she was already in a diminished capacity. Even if she was not out of control and had merely died by passing out and choking on her own vomit... the police would, should, and I believe will be held negligent in the responibility they took upon themselves when they placed her in their custody. She was no longer in her own custody by police action and I would hate to live in a police state where this responsibility is routinely ignored and not litigated.

[Vinca]

44. The husband shares some guilt, to be sure, but the reason the woman

died was ultimately because she wasn't watched properly by the person who stuck her in the cell. Even the podunk department I worked at had closed circuit television in the jail and prisoners were observed 24/7. If someone was completely whacked, one of us had the privilege of sitting outside the cell and babysitting them. It's not uncommon at all to have suicide attempts in this situation. If, as a rule, they don't watch their detainees, it's most likely they've lost a few along the way.

[TorchTheWitch]

51. She WAS watched properly

Even people on suicide watch aren't necessarily watched continuously. Carol managed to die within about 7 minutes of her being left alone, so proper procedure in watching her was observed even if she was on suicide watch (which she was not since her suicidal history was unknown at the time). Maybe the protocols need to be changed not only for those on suicide watch but anyone exhibiting uncontrolled behavior. However, it is not the fault of the police involved that these protocols may not be appropriate. Personally, I think they are, but a problem may lie with the accepted method of restraint. It probably works just fine for most people, but evidently Carol was an exception. I think someone exhibiting the crazy behavior she was should probably be subjected to a more confining method of restraint for their own protection, but just like the law that says there can't be cameras watching a holding cell due to privacy concerns, there would probably be those that would take issue with a more confining method of restraint.

www.nicic.org/pubs/1995/012475.pdf
From TABLE 2-1
Arizona's suicide watch protocol is to check the inmate every 15 minutes.

[Vinca]

57. I won't even bother to read this entire post.

If she was watched properly, she'd be alive. End of story. After reading bits and pieces of this thread, it seems some of George Bush's torture mentality has trickled across the aisle. I never thought I'd read stuff like this on the DU.

[StarryNite]

63. For crying out loud,

where did anybody say they advocate torture in this thread? And you are correct, had she been watched properly, she'd still be alive. That's exactly why her husband or another responsible adult should have accompanied her on her trip (no pun intended). It's terrible that she died. It could have been avoided. Her husband was aware of her condition when she embarked on her journey, the police didn't have insight into that. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20.

Thank goodness she wasn't behind the wheel of a car in her condition.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. His wife was an adult and unless her spouse had a court-ordered guardianship,

all he could do was try to persuade her to have an escort or to attend a different rehab program closer to home. I've dealt with enough addicts and mentally ill relatives to know that you can cajole them, yell at them, try every method you can think of to get them to see that they are making a bad choice but sometimes it just does not work.

I have no idea what steps if any the spouse took or whether he feels some guilt but once she was in police custody there WERE adults responsible for safeguarding her and they failed. It's an unfortunate thing that the way our legal system is set up monetary judgments are the way change takes place because what's probably needed here is more training, better staffing, and clearer protocols for law enforcement.

[StarryNite]

52. The whole thing failed before

she was ever arrested. She was a ticking time bomb as evidenced by her decision to get smashed en route to rehab.

[TorchTheWitch]

54. That's not all he could do

He could have warned the airport at the very least. He knew she was going to get bombed on this trip and he willfully subjected the general public, the police and airport personnel to her issues. If they were able to talk her into going to rehab, they could have insisted on an appropriate plan to get her their safely for her and everyone else that was subjected to her. Whatever they used to threaten or cajole her into going to rehab could also have been used to make sure she got there safetly, and if that meant chosing a rehab facility closer to home, escorting her himself, having her picked up or hiring someone to escort her, so be it. SHE was the one who wanted to make this trip alone, and no doubt it was because she wanted one last drunken blitz before going into rehab. For whatever reason, she was allowed to have her way on how she would get to rehab, and her husband KNEW she couldn't do it sober.

[Gormy Cuss]

60. Any report that she was other than the model passenger on her flight?

I haven't read it. Bombed or not, had she been allowed on the connecting flight there may have been no recognition by anyone around her that the woman was in distress or even "bombed" to the point where she stood out. I've had co-workers who were active alcoholics and few had a clue that these colleagues were intoxicated at work until they went to rehab or AA. Addicts can be quite good at presenting a face of control.

Also, where was it reported that she was talked into going back to rehab, rather than deciding on her own that she needed to go? It was reported that she had been to the Tucson center before and perhaps that comfort level is why she chose the long trip rather than take the chance on a closer program. As for one last drunken binge, she wouldn't be the first client to show up inebriated. It's par for the course.

As for her husband not knowing that she could make it sober, I'd wager that he assumed she'd make it alive as long as she was on a plane or escorted. There was a press report early on that a family friend was lined up to meet her in PHX to make sure she had support before getting on the connecting flight so it's not as if he washed his hands of her and hoped for the best.

[treestar]

46. God, how sad

She was on her way for alcohol treatment? If only they would have just let her on the plane and get there.

[LisaL]

49. HTW were they supposed to let her on the plane if she was

late for her flight?

[tammywammy]

50. Well, the airlines are supposed to just

know that she's on her way to rehab and that's why she was acting all crazy. :eyes:


I'll never understand why the husband didn't escort her or why the people that were supposed to be there weren't. It's a horrible accident.

[TorchTheWitch]

53. By law she wasn't allowed on the plane in her condition

The law thankfully doesn't allow crazy drunks to board airplanes. Bad enough that Carol went ballistic in the airport, but can you imagine if she was behaving that way on the plane??? No way in HELL she anyone in her condition be allowed on a plane EVER.