Lots of DUers expect looming economic disaster. Let's pool our survival thinking.

[Jackpine Radical]

On another thread 70% of DUers predicted a looming economic crisis of at least Great Depression magnitude. What are you doing, or what do you intend to do, or what would you recommend, to get through the coming Bad Time as comfortably as possible?

Let me first issue the disclaimer that I am no sort of financial adviser, and am not offering any professional advice here. Anyone who takes any action as a result of reading this post, or this thread, does so at his or her own risk.

All that said, here are some things that occur to me.


Invest in Euro-denominated stocks, particularly ones related to alternative energy.
Invest in gold.
Invest in Prudent Bear (Nasdaq BEARX), a "contrarian" fund designed to go up when the overall market goes down.

Reduce all variable-interest debts ASAP. Do not, however, rush to pay off fixed-rate debts (e.g. fixed-rate mortgages) because as the dollar loses value, you will be making your payments in ever-cheaper dollars.

Stock up on non-perishable foodstuffs (canned, dried, etc.).
Find a bit of land to put a garden on.
Build a greenhouse to extend your veggie-growing season.

[Angela Shelley]

1. Apply for or renew your US Passport

so that other countries MIGHT let you in.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. As a politcal refugee.

[Angela Shelley]

3. Of course as a political refugee

because they surely won´t be interested in your dollar reserves.

[NMDemDist2]

4. I have gotten rid of all my debt

own an acre and a house, am learning how to garden

I keep at least 3 months of cash on hand

have good neighbors who have skills I don't

I'm happy and hunkered down

[Warpy]

7. Just think, with Pearce, the dumbest human being on the planet,

now running for Domenici's (R-fossil) seat, you have a chance to get decent representation in Congress. So do we in Wilson (R-COW) territory!

We who have managed to get out of all debt are very fortunate.

[NMDemDist2]

17. yes

and yes

We have a good guy from Dona Ana county commissioners running for Pearce's seat

:woohoo:

[Warpy]

5. Gold? Please.

The certificates are oversold. The shiny rocks themselves are vulnerable to theft. DHS has written itself permission to take them out of your safety deposit box at the bank if Stupid decides there's a national emergency. Plus, they're hard to convert into anything useful at anywhere near their value in a true emergency. Stories abound in the Depression of fabulously expensive gold jewelry being traded for one meal.

Keep investment portfolios diversified. Hope that at least some of them will survive the crash and be prepared to live on poor folks' food during the crash. Investing in Euros isn't going to help much. The crash is going to be world wide.

Reduce debt. That's the big one. Remember, in any crash you can't count on being employed. That's why we call it a crash.

Learn to cook. Learn to mend. Learn how to get extra life out of shoes that are falling to pieces. Keep plenty of silver tape, thread, string, wire, and glue around for quick repairs to just about everything. Get to know your neighbors because they'll help you get through it.

[demnan]

9. Don't think I get along well with my cat-starving neighbor

but the rest of what you said makes more sense at any rate. Here's another tip, buy the whole chicken. You can make soup and several meals off the bones and a couple of sets of giblets and whatever onions, celery, carrots and canned veggies you have in the house. I've done this more times than I'd like to admit. I call it "Pre-Payday soup".

[Warpy]

11. Poverty stew

half a pound of the cheapest, greasiest burger, 2 ribs celery, one large onion, two cloves garlic, generous teaspoon curry powder, generous teaspoon oregano, one can of tomato soup. Brown meat, sweat veggies, add seasonings and soup and simmer while you cook 1 pound of the cheapest elbow macaroni you can get. Slosh it all together.

I could make half a pound of burger last 5 days that way.

Then I discovered beans and rice.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Or, better, GROW the whole chicken.

[Vanje]

24. Yes! Raise chickens and eggs.

They dont take much room. They eat your weeds , grass-trimmings and left-overs. They fertilize your garden. They amuse!

Google chicken tractor for small coop designs suitable for city or country.

[Angela Shelley]

20. I agree, you can fix most things

with a dose of WD40 and black electrical tape

[Deja Q]

6. Four things:

1. What happens when one runs out of "non-perishable foodstuffs", which all things being equal lose their nutrient value after a while anyway (that expiration date on the tin isn't there for entertainment value, you know!)

2. How many people do you plan to feed all those "veggies" to, eh? Just how big a garden is it?

3. Water. You'll still need Mr Plumber and his sexy water bill.

4. Fuck the greenhouse; global warming is doing that for us already. :party:

Not everything can be prepared for and there's no shit sense in worrying. Just live and work on your personal goals. You might have a heart attack tomorrow. Or didn't you save up for that artificial heart?

[zippy890]

34. I think you need Dr. Peak Shrink for your Doomerism

http://www.peakoilblues.com/blog/?p=132

" Panglossian perspective denies the need for constructive action, and leads to complacency and a worsening of our world’s woes. I’ve come to think about the Panglossian perspective as not optimism itself, but as a defense against pessimism. This defense takes many forms, as I’ve described above, and I’d like to describe why so many of us NEED a defense against pessimism, and how, unfortunately, my profession of psychology has been so instrumental in fueling that defense."

~~~

good article actually, I found it helpful to sort out my pessimism.

I tend toward wanting to put my faith in technology, also not particularly helpful:

"Pure Cornucopian Features: “The more we need, the more they’ll be.” A belief that continued progress and provision of material items for mankind can be met by advances in technology."

others in this thread should check this out, its a good perspective on what we are all facing, and how to cope.

[glowing]

8. I call party foul...

There is easily a way to make a new economic turn... It comes with good trade agreements, universal healthcare (so mom and pop business can compete), and New Dealing the green revolution (which includes no less than sound public transportation with electric bullet trains, solar panels on homes, geo-thermal devices to heat homes and water, organic growing ). We do not have to go down. We all complain about big oil.. well, the economy must change to move us along into the next century and a new age of "green". So, its the old systems that are collapsing and the old money men oil are going down.. they are putting up quite a protest with all these wars and all.. but they will lose. People need to remember ingenuity, creativity, and hope. You can erase the negative with positive. We can and will do this to survive and create a better future. I will not be pushed into thinking that I must stock up on crappy weenie beans in a can because the depression is coming. It only makes you depressed and makes the situation inevitable. Nothing is inevitable... this cause and effect, problem and reaction world that we've been living in is ridiculous... Someone creates this dooming, looming problem, and we like the good little rats, react. There was no reason for the last depression. If people weren't so worried about money and were more worried about taking care of one another, then the depression would not have happened... But money truly is the root cause of evil... People in the country faired better than those in the city because they bartered, grew their own things, and took care of one another. Those in the big city without jobs and money starved.

I will make a pledge now. I will not let my neighbors starve... I will go with less. I'm getting off the wheel and out of the maze.. I will not keep running from one problem to the next.. That's what I hate about the climate change thing... oh, no we are doomed, instead of saying this is happening, and if I do this and that and this country invest in this and that, we will live better, cleaner lives. At the same time, we must recongnize that the land may change, and we may have to become slightly nomadic so that we can move people out of deserts and away from flood zones. This means working as a human race...Aghast the idea of recognizing all of earth's humanity and not just our American asses.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Unfortunately, it may take some fairly catastrophic time to get our attention

so that we would be willing to do those things.

Well, I think the public would be willing, but the corporations pretty much have us by the throat and seem intent on wringing the last dollar (Amero?) out of the status quo before they permit any sort of sanity to dwell in the land.

[Angela Shelley]

15. It´s the crappy weenie beans in a can

which depress me, too. Thanks for your comments.

[Deja Q]

21. . .

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[glowing]

39. Thanks.. YOU ROCK.. wish more people would react like me, then

we'd turn it around faster.

[Leopolds Ghost]

32. There are no mom and pop businesses left

Compare to any time in the past, the number has decreased asymptotically.

Go out on the freeway, review what you see there. Are you used to seeing "mom & pops" that have branches every 1.5 miles across the US? Often in the exact same configuration at every exit, as if Stalin had set them up?

Have you noticed the percentage of small-town goods sold that are in tightly controlled mega-malls, wherein "retail concepts" from around the country are tested initially, leaving aside big box stores? You may think these places are just too small and economically depressed to support Main Street -- have you been to the local mall there?

Thousands of people are wandering around, Or drive from store to store if it is an outdoor strip mall. They don't feel safe outside on foot.

Review state, local and federal real estate policies enforced by sales/marketing agents, mom & pop are dead. You're not even allowed to have a locally owned store in most "name brand retail" developments.

Unless it is a specific category (hair salons are an example).

The next Great Depression will complete the picture, coupled with loss of civil liberties, putting us into a Late Soviet era economy and society -- a kleptocracy run by cartels -- which is where the neocons want us.

The two ends of the political spectrum meet, remember?

[glowing]

40. Actually, there are still mom and pop joints.. and I do consider any

company that has less than 1000 employees (yes there is still some co out there that aren't public and do have a small work force making stuff).. that are competing with big co. Universal healthcare would level the playing field. Good employees would stay or work with good employers. I have to leave my employer because I have 0 benefits. I want a child, I have to have paid disability and 401K options and healthcare options... I can't work for this small co and expect that to happen. And even though they run a franchise hotel, I work for the small co. and that means I get nothing.. which is why franchise sucks because individual co. own and operate independently.. collectively, they could afford benefits.. This is why so many of your hotel employees in smaller hotels suck... They can't afford good workers.

[Dave From Canada]

10. So much for the predictions. Retailers post 8.3% increase in sales on friday.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071125/D8T4EQR00.html

[Jackpine Radical]

13. Oh, how wonderful!

Now everything is better & we won't have to worry about the collapse of the dollar or the trillions Bush added to the national debt or our lack of health care or global warming or any of that stuff.

God but I feel so much better now!

[Spazito]

18. LOL, will that be cash or credit?

My bet is credit which does nothing to reduce the problem re the economy, etc, in the long term. This is a one-day gross increase in sales, not a net increase in profits, big difference.

Reading the article, I think this is a key part of looking at things realistically as opposed to irrational optimism:

"Last year, retailers had a good start during the Thanksgiving weekend, but many stores struggled in December, and a shopping surge just before and after Christmas wasn't enough to make up for lost sales."

and this one:

"In an apparent sign of desperation, the nation's stores ushered in the official start of the holiday shopping season on Friday with expanded hours, including midnight openings, and a blitz of early morning specials that were more generous than a year ago. J.C. Penney and Kohl's Corp. (KSS) opened at 4 a.m., an hour earlier than a year ago."

[sam sarrha]

16. nothing you listed is of any consequence, when the shoe drops, we'll all just be try'n to stay alive

we stock up on food, but when we are evicted, cant take much in the car with 3 people and 2 dogs. run out of gas they will tow the car.

i was in the Peace Corps in '73 in west africa in drought relief.. dead people lined the streets.. till the donkey carts hauled them away in the morning. mass's.. thousands of sick and starving huddled in medinas

i knew then we here were just a "simple circumstance" from what i saw in africa, and later in central america... i suffer PTSD from it. i had a backpack in my closet for decades with seeds and survival gear.. till my brother-in-law stoled it.

best thing to do is quickly learn to meditate, you will be able to endure more with less suffering, and maybe it will help have a good calm death and fortunate rebirth ..till then we are screwed,

go to the video rental store and check out 'the good earth'

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. Good woman with land in search of man with plow and mule --

please post pic of plow and mule. Thanks:D

[Subdivisions]

22. A mule and a plow are on top of my bugout list...

right below "Good woman" and "Land". Does that count?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. ~

;)

[Angela Shelley]

23. Tuesday Afternoon, you are so funny

[Tuesday Afternoon]

27. who me?

:blush:

and welcome to DU:hi:

[Angela Shelley]

28. Yes, the good woman

preparing for "hard times"

Thanks for the welcome wave!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. would prefer tractor, but worry about fuel supply --

:D

[Jackpine Radical]

31. A diesel is your best bet.

You can run it on soy oil or whatever 6 months of the year.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. Please amend above ad to read ISO man w/ diesel tractor,

Thanks;)

eta: please post pic of tractor :D

[flashl]

25. Look inside any "inner-city" with depleted resources for a preview. n/t

[Angela Shelley]

29. My Grandmother lived through WWII

and her most valuable assets were

good scissors
several spools of thread
a box of small nails

a diary to keep herself sane

the will to survive

[Delphinus]

33. Ah, perhaps the most important of all ...

the will to survive.

[BelgianMadCow]

36. 1st (??) rec!

[LanternWaste]

37. Different streets to reach the same destination...

Maybe some shared ideas could be found at the Rapture Ready board.

Different streets to reach the same destination...

[earth mom]

38. We are lucky to have a nice veggie garden & lots of fruit trees.

I am tempted to get chickens and will be looking into it after the holidays.

I will be canning stuff next year too. Never needed to before, but this coming year will be the test.

A greenhouse-made from old windows and doors-is something we've been talking about.

Looks like we'll be making one sooner than planned....