If blacks are a part of this country ...

[butterfly77]

and have been for years, why when a question is asked about blacks they are talked about as though they are foreigners to this country. Another thing why do the candidates try to portray issues pertaining to blacks as only poverty and crime. Don't other races have these problems? Republicons seem to think that all blacks are poor and don't want the same things as others. Another thing, why do they always to think that blacks need vouchers to be taught. A lot of the problems that are in the black communities are now being revealed due to the policies of the past of trying to keep blacks in their so called place. Why does the media think that blacks should vote for Obama because he is black.

Do whites need to necessarily have to vote for the other candidates just because they are white.Do all Hispanics have to vote for Richardson? Do all Italians have to vote for Ghouliani? Is ghouliani Italian? Why are blacks consider separate from others but Asian, Hispanics, Arabs and other races are not? Don't blacks see and do the same things as other Americans so what is the difference? I know that there is more crime and other problems but don't others have these problems too. Yes, they are higher in the black community but, there are many reasons for this, other races do the same things but it is kept hidden or the have the finances to cover it up. O'lielly always likes to talk about illegitimate children in the black community as though white women who give birth to children through artificial insemination are not to be labeled in the same category or anyone else.

[EFerrari]

1. We've have no clue about how to talk about "race" in this joint.

We're clumsy and often, very stupid.

[zanne]

2. That's very true, sfexpat.

We need blacks and other minorities to clue us in on how things really are. You're right--we're clueless. I just found out, from working as a volunteer, that there are generational difference in political opinions with some black people. And how are we supposed to know unless we're told? Please people! Help us!

[ThomCat]

4. It doesn't help that so many people have nothing more

than a vague understanding of racism, and think that because they don't see it that means it's a minor, overblown problem.

[EFerrari]

5. Sometimes I think it's shame and shame is poison to thinking. n/t

[butterfly77]

9. How do they expect this country to come together...

when they treat blacks as second class citizens.

[zanne]

14. That is also true.

I've always thought it was a shame that we couldn't all trade lives for a month or so. Then we'd understand.

[Captain Hilts]

12. I watch Pardon the Interruption on ESPN for honest discussions of race.

True. You have to go to the sports section to find it. Sad.

[yardwork]

3. Very good points, all of them.

Strong, institutional racism against African Americans is very much alive in the United States. It is demonstrated by all the points you make, and more.

We know that the so-called main-stream media in this country is owned and operated by a few enormous corporations, who promote the points of view that will benefit their marketing and their profits. We also know that the corporations have essentially taken over our government, again to benefit their profits and enable them to operate without any competition. This is the definition of fascism, and one of the pillars of fascism is keeping the population constantly divided and fearful of one another.

It is part of the corporatist fascist structure of this country to continue to portray African Americans in negative terms, to keep them divided from others. Other minorities are portrayed in negative terms as well, but the deepest form of racism is reserved for those whose appearance makes them immediately recognizable as a member of a minority group.

Fighting racism = fighting fascism = fighting bigotry of all kinds. Shining light on the lies is one way to fight. Sending money and support to groups like the Southern Poverty Research Center - which takes racists to court - is another. Also, I support the ACLU, Amnesty International, and Lambda Legal. All these groups fight racism.

[Justitia]

6. Unlike the majority of those other American ethnicities, A-Americans were brought here in chains.

And we were among the last in the developed world to recognize another human being cannot be "owned".

There is a long, deep scar on our country because of that.

I think it would be scary to peek into the brain of some "modern citizens" for whom some of the old thinking still resonates. :scared:

[EFerrari]

7. Scary on wheels. And remember, native peoples were also enslaved

and even today, there are immigrant workers who are taken to remote locations and enslaved, too. It's not over. There are still people in this country that see other people as productive meat. It doesn't just happen in China or India or Burma. It's happening in Florida and Louisiana and California.

[zanne]

15. Yes....But not like African-Americans.

Nothing compares to that.

[EFerrari]

18. No -- nothing on that scale or horrible industrious efficiency.

All I meant was, it hasn't gone away. Not really. Black Americans still struggle for nearly everything that white Americans take for granted. And there is still literal slavery in this country. We just hide it. :shrug:

[butterfly77]

19. Just like all of the other lies...

that this country has told over the years. I see others come from different countries and they are given opportunitiess that blacks never get.

[Captain Hilts]

8. Black voters vote in a bloc in a way that women, Hispanics, etc. do not. They vote as a bloc.

That high rate of consistency differentiates them from other voting blocs.

Hence, people speak of them as a single specific entity in discussions of voting patterns.

Why the media thinks they - like women - need a 'leader' and think that that leader is Jesse Jackson beats the hell outta me.

[butterfly77]

10. There are blacks in the CON party..

which are used to portray diversity. Neither party really does any thing that addresses issues pertaining to blacks. They no that blacks have no where else to go. They would be surprised if blacks all voted in a bloc for the Green or some other party. Blacks in the CON party are there usually to address everything the CONS want discuss as bad in the black community. Bush always talks about how blacks have more home ownership. Have they lost the homes that they so called owned?

[AspenRose]

11. Langston Hughes has an answer to one of your questions

"....why when a question is asked about blacks they are talked about as though they are foreigners to this country."

Answer: "America never was America to me."


Let America be America again.

Let it be the dream it used to be.

Let it be the pioneer on the plain

Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)



Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--

Let it be that great strong land of love

Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme

That any man be crushed by one above.
(It never was America to me.)



O, let my land be a land where Liberty

Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,

But opportunity is real, and life is free,

Equality is in the air we breathe.
(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")



Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?

And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?



I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,

I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.

I am the red man driven from the land,

I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--

And finding only the same old stupid plan

Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.



I am the young man, full of strength and hope,

Tangled in that ancient endless chain

Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!

Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!

Of work the men! Of take the pay!

Of owning everything for one's own greed!



I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.

I am the worker sold to the machine.

I am the Negro, servant to you all.

I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--

Hungry yet today despite the dream.

Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!

I am the man who never got ahead,

The poorest worker bartered through the years.



Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream

In the Old World while still a serf of kings,

Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,

That even yet its mighty daring sings

In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned

That's made America the land it has become.

O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas

In search of what I meant to be my home--

For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,

And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,

And torn from Black Africa's strand I came

To build a "homeland of the free."



The free?



Who said the free? Not me?

Surely not me? The millions on relief today?

The millions shot down when we strike?

The millions who have nothing for our pay?

For all the dreams we've dreamed

And all the songs we've sung

And all the hopes we've held

And all the flags we've hung,

The millions who have nothing for our pay--

Except the dream that's almost dead today.



O, let America be America again--

The land that never has been yet--

And yet must be--the land where every man is free.

The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--

Who made America,

Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,

Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,

Must bring back our mighty dream again.



Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--

The steel of freedom does not stain.

From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,

We must take back our land again,

America!



O, yes,

I say it plain,

America never was America to me,

And yet I swear this oath--

America will be!



Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,

The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,

We, the people, must redeem

The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.

The mountains and the endless plain--

All, all the stretch of these great green states--

And make America again!

[glowing]

13. America is a strange country...

We are the land of the free and the home of the brave with a constitution unparalled to any other's. On the other hand, we are human and we have erred. The white America was created out of genocide both in the nothern and southern hemisphere, and it soon gave way to cultivation and slavery. Apparently, when white men felt oppressed, they rebelled. One rebellion gave us the United States and the other abolished slavery. However, after the revolution, there were still men and women who felt loyalty to the King, and after the civil war, there were still many men and women who believed that black people were not equal. Later, women had to fight for their rights to equalize and vote. So, its a strange country to have the constitution that we have.

Throughout it all, it has been about survival. Why would the rich, white man want to give way to allow for other's to take his riches? The money people will use whatever tricks they can, and this includes media to insight fear, politicians to opress the constitution, and general in-fighting among countrymen to keep them from coming together and realizing there is a true common enemy--the 1% who hide behind their iron gates and enjoy their many luxuries.

Its a mess. I don't know how you get a nation to care and to wake-up. I have spoken to so many people, and the young, perhaps because of their youth, are so blind. They are so connected to information, yet they are more apathetic than most youths in many countries. Sure, there are a few out there who somehow got it or had really progressive parents, but how many young people do you really see protesting anything? My own mother tells me to watch my ass, and I monitor which events I participate in... I would like to run for office, and I don't need a r.w. attack add.

I guess this isn't an answer, as much as an observation. If you really want to address the issues in any community, then you have to be able to recognize your strengths and weaknesses. I'm white. I've dated all types of people. I was very serious with this one black man in college. I still talk to himm, though my husband objects. Perhaps pillow talk is needed more. It was there I was able to say to him, I hate it when those black men grab my ass and 2 or 3 of them come up to me in the club and molest me (I looked good)... Why the fuck do they disrespect women so much? And he'd say something like, because most of them didn't and don't have a daddy around to smack them over the head when they are growing up. And who cares? Might as well get your jollies now because if your a black man, you'll be living with a lot of dudes most of your life. He told me about the time a cop pulled him out of the car, had the dog searching his car all the while holding a gun to his head... he was 19 at the time and a college student heading from M.B. to Charleston for the night. He said he turned out ok because his dad was black and his mom was white, so growing up predominantly on military bases and in the south, he had more acceptance from white people... and his parents were still together. So, he got a world view of some cool places and he was discriminated by black children who wouldn't accept his mom and by white older people who didn't accept his color..... Anyway, at least with the pillow talk, we were ourselves, not politically correct, but honest. It is with honesty that we will be able to address human, social problems.

[Catherine Vincent]

16. Blacks were labeled as "refugees" a few years ago.

[butterfly77]

17. Did anyone see the question on cspan this morning?

Why are blacks split on the vote for Obama? They are questioning blacks as though they have to vote for him because he is black when he is also part white. Juan Williams did some article as though he is the authority on blacks. They also tried to break it up as though values had something to do with it as if middle class blacks are different that low income blacks. Values have nothing to do with your income rich people have no better values than low or middle class, people are people.