So I Guess God Was Out Having A Cigarette All Day Yesterday

[eleny]

I watched the local press conference on Channel 7 TV here in Colorado this afternoon with the investigators from Arvada and Colorado Springs.

They introduced the woman who was the security person who shot the killer. She attends that church and also volunteers to be security.

Every other sentence out of her mouth was about how god was with her. He kept her calm. It was only her, the shooter and god. God kept her hands steady.

It was nauseating. I wanted to yell - Where was your god when the shooter was dropping those two little sister dead? And where was your god when the shooter shot their father?

Those fundies have their heads up their collective ass - and the children suffer. Children literally killing children.

[BlueJazz]

1. I want nothing to do with a God that allows Misery to run rampant in a World.

[eleny]

2. He killed two sisters

Two lovely young girls age 16 and 18. Their father was also shot and he's in the hospital and said to be in stable condition. I can't begin to imagine his horror.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. God killed two young girls yesterday? God did?

Or was it a monster who doesn't know God at all?

[Guaranteed]

26. You're pissed because you don't understand.

I don't get it either. But I don't let my anger overtake my faith that, like Bob Marley said, "Everything's gonna be alright."

[Raejeanowl]

34. God Allows Message Boards Like This To Exist

Because He has a wicked sense of humor and loves a good laugh.

[malaise]

65. Bob was wrong

Everything is not alright. The guns are all over Jamaica. We've had 500 murders in three months and we don't make guns here. Maybe god is exporting them.

Add.

[SidDithers]

74. Where are you in Jamaica, malaise?...nt

Edit: nevermind, checked and saw Kingston in your profile.

:hi:

Sid

[KittyWampus]

73. What you want is a Mommy/Daddy that let's you stay up late, eat candy all day

and never go to school.

Ultimately, when we grow up the realization that everything happens for a reason, and our ultimate welfare dawns on us.

Struggles and hardship help us grow, in fact, it's the only way.

[raccoon]

77. Are you saying you believe everything happens to a reason?

"when we grow up the realization that everything happens for a reason"

Well, whatever gets you through the night...if it helps you, good for you.

I personally think it's crap.

[KittyWampus]

83. Well, every action has a consequence. Is that correct or mistaken?

[raccoon]

85. Yes. IME, however, usually when people say that

"everything happens for a reason", they are referring to some kind of divine plan.

The shooter shot some people, they were wounded or killed. Those are consequences of his action.

If someone suggests that these people were wounded or killed for a reason that's part of "God's plan" or whatever, that's what I have a serious problem with.

[KittyWampus]

86. Well, if by "Divine Plan" we use the term Logos or Universal Reason then they are correct

Things happen because they happen. It is up to the individual to make the effort WHY they happened and how things can be shaped in the future.

And by saying that things can be understood means there is some underlying Logic to them. And this very Logic, when grasped, gives us a key to control.

By studying Nature, we come to understand it and gain mastery of it.

But first we must control our emotions and be willing to view EVERYTHING that happens as neither good nor bad.

"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them." Epictetus

[raccoon]

87. I'm not familiar with Logos or Universal Reason.

But for me, when something most people would think was bad happens, and somebody talks about everything happening for a reason, it sounds patronizing and just ticks me off. And invalidating.

If someone wants to believe that about something that happened to them, and it helps them deal with it, good for them.

[PassingFair]

95. Diana West, is that you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/books/29grim.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[raccoon]

78. Free will. God gave the shooter free will.

Would you want God to intervene and stop the shooter? Or suspend the laws of physics so that nobody was injured?

I agree, this sucks, and those people didn't deserve to be shot down like that.

[roguevalley]

102. We have a great world and free will. the shooter killed those people.

God didn't have a damned thing to do about it. We make our own decisions, good or bad and we hold the responsibility. God has
nothing to do with it and gets no blame. A long line of failures
and bad choices created that boy and all those responsible could
have done the good job but they chose the bad. I blame those
responsible or we are nothing more than puppets to an invisible
power.

[Mythsaje]

3. One of my issues with religion

is the dichotomy some believers display when stuff like this happens. "God saved me. God helped me."

Egocentric bullshit. And it's not only egocentric, it's...vile. "God saved me, but condemned THAT person."

People have long leaned on the notion that "God called them to him."

So, in effect, what they're saying is that God saving them is, in fact, rejection--at least temporarily--and allowing someone else to die is what? Redemption? Recognition?

The older I get, the less I appreciate the ability of religion to cause people to hold absurd thoughts in their heads, and explain them to other people and have those other people, religious themselves, nod their heads as if it ISN'T nonsense.

[Blashyrkh]

5. What gets me is that God is never blamed when they fuck up.

They personally take the blame for all their mistakes, but give all the credit to God. It doesn't work that way.

[JVS]

20. Would you prefer the opposite?

[Blashyrkh]

30. The opposite is just as stupid.

God is not helping people with athletic competition. I mean, god doesn't lift a finger to help elderly people crushed by falling churches, why do you think he'd make an effort for some feckless moron trying to win a piece of metal.

[durrrty libby]

21. How about when people say"I am blessed" ( and you losers are not blessed)

What sanctimonious shit heads:spank:

[Mythsaje]

47. Yeah...that about covers it too.

Makes me nuts. Probably one of the things that chased me away from religion in the first place. I don't have the answers about the existence of Gawd or an afterlife or whatever, but I just can't buy into religion.

[silverojo]

32. Since when do fundies take the blame for their fuck-ups?

I've yet to see it happen....

[Captain Angry]

9. How does God choose a football team?

I mean, both sides are praying vehemently and yet only one side wins and praises him.

The losing side never blames him.

:-)

[Mythsaje]

10. Hell if I know.

What happens if NEITHER team prays? Do they both lose?

[Captain Angry]

13. Nope, the Refs win.

They're due. The Refs have been on the field for thousands of games, and have never won.

[durrrty libby]

23. That one is easy.

He loves the Red Sox and of course The Patriots:P

[Captain Angry]

27. Nope, he's just building you up to lose in the playoffs

To a team made up of lawnkeepers and concession stand workers.

[mtnester]

59. We thought God loved the Vikings too once

of all the people, Randy Moss ought to know how feckless God can be

[tinymontgomery]

68. God is really hating the

Panthers this year!

[Kurovski]

56. I want to know why God hates the Chicago Cubs so much.

(And here I'm speaking of the Greek Goat God of restaurateurs.)

[Lorien]

46. Man oh man, is that ever one of my issues with it too

my mom went from being an atheist to being a born again when I was a teenager. It was like the woman I had always known was taken away and a pod person was left behind. As I'm a self employed person and the economy sucks, I've had a harder time finding jobs since * got into office. My mom blames my periods of unemployment on various things (mostly me, obviously) and says that she'll "pray for me" to get more work. All very well and good. However, when my pavement pounding pays off and I land a string of great jobs, my mother says "Praise Jesus! God listened to me and brought you work at last"! Of course, none of it had anything at all to do with all those calls I made, my experience, talent, etc.-it was her prayers that did the trick. Every time. And that's the way it works in that universe; all the good that happens to us is His doing. All the bad times are our own fault. We achieve nothing positive on our own because we're inherently bad ("born in sin"), but we're each responsible for our own misery or misfortune. I realize that not every form of Christianity is this dysfunctional and guilt based (my grandparents were Christians and never bought into this mindset), but the branches of it that are are oddly egocentric on top of being consistently irrational.

[Mythsaje]

49. From an atheist to a born-again?

That must've been weird.

I can't help but wonder what prompts a transition like that.

Myself, I just drifted away from religion. When I was young I attended a lot of different churches--mostly going with my friends and their parents--and did the whole bible study and church camp thing (my idea, not my parents'). When I got older I explored farther afield...wicca, taoism, new age stuff.

To me, religion is nonsense. Gawd may or may not exist. There may or may be an afterlife. But, for now, the quality of my life involves my relationships with other humans and some of the small furry creatures that share my world. It does NOT hinge on some alleged relationship with an omnipotent deity.

[Occulus]

50. "God saved me, but condemned THAT person."

And there's almost always an undercurrent of "I'm special" accompanying that statement.

I've seen a positively gleeful glint in the eyes of some christians when they tell me I'm going to hell for being gay. Some of those Christers, the religionists, the Puritans, like that idea.

Sick.

[Mythsaje]

52. It IS sick.

"You're going to burn in the eternal fires of hell."

"Oh, fuck off."

I mean, what's the point of an eternal punishment for "sins" committed in a very finite lifetime? Punishment is, if I understand correctly, a method to teach NOT to repeat certain behaviors. Generally speaking, anyway. What point would there be in punishing someone forever? What lesson would it possibly teach them? To what end?

It would be the act of a massive sadist, one that would make the worst tyrants in human history look like doting grandmothers in comparison.

[SoCalDem]

4. "and then I said "something not very nice"..."

These religious nuts make me :puke:

God saved them..um...what was God's beef with those two sisters?

[skepticscott]

8. It's all part of God's plan

and we poor schmucks can't be expected to understand it, but it's all for the best.. :eyes: Apparently god tossed darts at his big board that day and hit those two girls...

[K Gardner]

6. Only to be topped in idiocy by "The Lord Jesus helped us win this ballgame", or

"I want to thank God for helping me beat the crap out of this motherf*%&^&% to finally win the heavyweight championship of the world, in the name of Jesus, Amen".

[Postman]

12. Hillarious.

Ever notice baseball players pointing to the sky in tribute after they strike out?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nailzberg]

11. God was heading to his car to get his Sig Sauer.

I'm pretty sure that's what God's packing these days.

[durrrty libby]

14. God is an asshole ?

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

15. You don't believe in god. That's fine.

I have serious doubts. That's fine.

She believes. That's fine.

Give it a rest----this was a horrible,human tragedy.

[eleny]

17. Put me in your ignore list. You'll feel so much better.

[emilyg]

37. Stupid OP.

[Clintonista2]

38. As usual, I agree with you emily.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

16. Maybe some have a different view of god then

God is not seen by many as 'all-powerful' (can god make a rock so big even he cannot lift it? An old Jewish proverb).

Maybe it is out definition of what is 'god' that is the issue.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

18. God choosing sides, choosing people, and some think that they know who's chosen

and others claim they themselves are chosen and it's all very confusing. Especially when trying to understand why children are not helped by God when someone who shoots another person, is.

MKJ

[lvx35]

19. How can you be yelling at somebody who saved all those lives?

It makes no sense. Somebody guns down people, she saves lives, and here you are yelling at HER.

[eleny]

22. You lack of reading comprehension is not my problem

[lvx35]

25. "It was nauseating. I wanted to yell"

In reference to her comments.

You lack of understanding of religion is not anybody else's probem either.

[spoony]

58. What's sad is they wanted to yell not about people dying

but about what those people believed in. Pathetic.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. True, but you grasp of the english language and ability to use it is. n/t

[silverojo]

33. Make no mistake, we admire what she did

She was clearly a skilled former law officer who did a great deed and is very humble about it.

However, when she started in about God being by her side, that's where the Christian delusion sets in. It made it sound as if she was saying God was with HER...but what about the victims, didn't God care about them?

It's the religious BS people are objecting to, not her very honorable and heroic deed. Let's make that clear. :)

[lvx35]

35. The thing is people have different concepts of God.

Its like that with intangible things that you can't point to and measure, things like "Love" or "Truth". People have their own ideas of what those words mean. Plug in Love or Truth to whatever she says and see if it doesn't make more sense: She'd be saying something like "Love guided my hand to stop the killer". She may also believe "Love can do anything", but if you asked why "Love didn't save the other girls" she could tell you, from her perspective.

The thing is that people of faith know that bad things sometimes happen to good people, and its NOT a contradiction of their beliefs when it happens. I can tell you from the perspective of my faith why it happens, and I'm sure she could tell you from the perspective of her faith, and our arguments would be consistent with out concepts of God. But when people come along and start telling me about the falseness of their OWN concept of God, and projecting it on others, it really tires me out. :)

[Scurrilous]

24. Let's roll?

<snip>

"Five people were killed, including the gunman, identified as Matthew Murray, 24, of Englewood, who was shot by a volunteer security guard during the second incident, at the New Life Church here.

The guard, Jeanne Assam, a church member with police experience and a pistol permit, said she took cover as Mr. Murray began his rampage at New Life, a 14,000-member evangelical megachurch, at about 1 p.m. Sunday, while hundreds of worshipers were leaving after the 11 a.m. service.

Ms. Assam said she leaped up and identified herself, and when Mr. Murray did not respond, opened fire. She said she had been on the third day of a three-day fast, praying to God to provide direction for her life.

“I knew I was given the assignment to end this,” Ms. Assam said at a news conference Monday at the Colorado Springs Police Operations Center. “I give the credit to God.”

Officials said they were still investigating whether Ms. Assam’s shot killed Mr. Murray or whether it might have been a self-inflicted wound."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/us/11churches.html?ref=us

[lynne]

28. The shooter had 2 handguns, a shotgun and a mess of ammo.

The church had 7,000 people in attendance with services letting out. Given those details, some say that it was both a blessing and a miracle that more were not injured or killed. Can't say that I disagree.

[opiate69]

31. Hard to imagine it looks like much of a "miracle" or "blessing'

from the Works, Crouse and Johnson families' perspective.

[lynne]

64. I'm sure they don't for obvious reasons -

- yet I would think that even they are relieved that more were not injured or killed.

[Blue-Jay]

29. I was out having a cig yesterday and I didn't see him.

Unless he was wearing a skirt with tennis shoes...

[Disturbed]

36. Hasn't anyone heard that God works in mysterious ways?

God obviously wanted the people who got shot & died in Heaven for reasons on God
knows. God helped out the lady who shot & killed the killer because it was God's will
that the shooter be killed. Only God knows why it went this way. It was all God's will.
Humans should not try to figure out God.

[Mythsaje]

53. Yes, the historic excuse for humans to avoid responsibility

for even the things we CAN change.

[spoony]

60. And yet, ironically, there is more

condemnation here of God than the killer. So where's the rush to properly assign responsibility on DU?

[Clintonista2]

39. This OP is so ridiculously stupid.

Trying to turn a horrific event like this into a political statement against religion is just like the fundies trying to turn a horrific event like 9/11 into a political statement for religion.

[JVS]

41. well said

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

45. Horrific event?

I thought all good christians would jump at the idea of perishing at Gawd's house. Why fight death if your reward is an eternity in utopia? Sort of like me ODing on blow at the Playboy Mansion. :sarcasm:

[Occulus]

51. No, this is an entirely correct observation

And it happens every single time there's ANY disaster or mayhem that kills people.

"God told me to run up the beach to avoid the tsunami"
"I'd like to thank God for this award"

It's pathetic. Absolutely unthinkingly pathetic. And it deserves to be pointed out as a reason why organized religion is wrong, wrong, wrong- no matter which religion.

[Mythsaje]

54. It's one of the things that turned me away from revealed religion in the first place.

It wasn't gawd that told me to run up the fucking beach to get away, it was ME. Gawd may or may not have made me an intelligent being, but he sure as hell doesn't have his fingers in my brain making me do things I can damn well do myself.

Religion irritates the shit out of me sometimes.

Not religious people, necessarily, just religion. Though some religious folks, particularly fundies, annoy me to no end.

[Occulus]

42. The christian god is an arbitrary shit

or, as THEY say it, "God works in mysterious ways"

:sarcasm:

Or not sarcasm. YOU decide.

For the record, since I'm certain this post will ruffle someone's feathers: I think IF (huge if) the christian god (sic) exists as they tell it, that god is in reality powerless to stop bad things from happening and powerless to make good things happen. It rejoices with us, and mourns with us, but has no more power to command the winds that blow than you or I.

[Mythsaje]

55. I prefer to think of it

as a vast, impersonal thing that might well be mindless, as we would think of it, with nodes of intelligence scattered throughout its vastness.

[UnyieldingHierophant]

75. You specify "christian god", but no other?

I'd assume you feel the same about all "Gods"?? Perhaps this specific event/OP/situation led to the other ommisions in your hypothesis?

[Kurovski]

44. Gotta give this the fifth.

I'm sick of the clueless, self-absorbed insensitivity of the narcissistic folk who imagine themselves to be "religious".

[Inchworm]

48. "Where was your god [yada yada]"

not mine, yers.

:hug:

[Disturbed]

61. What was this god they speak of doing when

the Romans were slaughtering Christians, the Christians were slaughtering Jews in Spain, The Crusaders were slaughtering Jews and Muslims, the Turks were slaughtering the Armenians, the Germans were slaughtering the Jews, Gypsies, Commies, Homosexuals, the Japanese were slaughtering the Chinese, the Khmer Rouge were slaughtering the Cambodians, the US Regime were slaughtering the Iraqis? The list is not complete by a long shot.

[Perry Logan]

62. These are the vermin we have to weed out of our society.

[mwb970]

63. The poor dears have no other frame of reference.

It's important to remember that Fundies are Fundies because they believe the whole God/Bible/Jesus thing with their entire hearts, minds, and souls (although the "mind" part is not emphasized), blindly, unquestioningly, totally. They are, even in their own terms, sheep. (If "God is my shepherd," well, I'm a sheep, no?)

They don't "believe in" science. They do not think in terms of normal cause-and-effect. They have a childlike faith that "God can do anything" and "Everything that happens is part of God's divine plan". I know, I know, it sounds like toddler-level Sunday-school sludge, but these people believe this stuff intensely and to the exclusion of any other belief.

This, I think, accounts for the absurd statements about God that follow a tragedy. Of course you get "My faith saw me through it," and that may actually be true on some level. It's when they start attributing (human) actions and emotions to their deity that they go off the deep end. This is where you get the "God steadied my hand while allowing children to die" sort of formulation.

Sometimes at the funerals the preacher says that "God is weeping" or "God is sad today." This seems very strange to me. First of all, it's bad enough that God is "male" (why would God need sex organs of a specific gender?), but now we find that he is "sad" and "weeping," just like his human subjects. This just doesn't sound like a deity to me. Secondly, I thought God was omnipotent. Why then is he so powerless in the face of evil, able to steady a woman's shootin' hand but unable to affect the criminal himself?

The whole thing makes no sense to me. To the Fundies, nothing else does.

[lynne]

66. OK, I'm just not understanding this thread -

- the woman killed the shooter and saved untold lives in doing so. Yet she's being criticized because she thanked God.

I don't understand how this woman's belief in God - and her belief that God was with her during this ordeal - negatively impacts anyone. She effectively ended a slaughter. Does it matter if she credits God in helping her - or her Uncle Fred for teaching her to shoot straight - or Mother Nature for giving her good weather to get to the church on time that morning?

Not everyone believes in God. However, had she not believed, she wouldn't have been in that church and the shooter wouldn't have been stopped. No matter if you believe or not, her belief in God deserves the credit for placing her in that spot at that time.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

69. It displays a certain arrogance, that God was with her and not those who died.

It's not something that anyone who uses that expression seems to understand.

As has been said in this thread, claiming God was the reason that one does anything carries an implication of being "chosen" over those who met unfortunate or tragic ends in this type of situation.

That is the core of the discussion here.

MKJ

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. i dont think she is being criticized because she thanked god. its kind of insensitive

to start thanking god because something worked out for you but didnt for a bunch of other people.

i personally object to gloating, whether you are thanking god or your incredible skills, especially when several people have just been hurt.

[eleny]

91. "i personally object to gloating"

Thanks so much for that. It crystallizes how I feel about her. Her thanking "god" for making her his vessel makes me go sideways. Meanwhile, a man is in the hospital having survived being shot and knowing that his two daughters tragically died at the scene.

That juxtaposition pushed me over an edge.

And today we learn two things from the press (postings scattered around DU): First, that the security guard/hero was fired from a previous law enforcement job in another state for abusive behavior. And that Tony Perkins of the FRC has blamed the secular media for the shootings.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

104. We also learned that the El Paso County Coroner

ruled Murray's death a suicide.

[redqueen]

97. Very well put.

It's great that she saved lives...

That she chose that moment to gloat about how god chose her and protected her (and by implication apparently wanted the others to die).. is egocentric and nonsensical.

[kwassa]

72. I totally agree with you.

Excellent analysis.

[SnowGoose]

67. Needing to believe ~ "God moves in mysterious ways."

Which may be true, for all I know.

What galls me is that you *only* ever hear this old saw when it's difficult to reconcile reality with people's preconceptions about the "personality" traits of their god(s). All the rest of the time, it's more like "God says this, and God thinks that."

When I was a kid in Kalamazoo Michigan, we had a tornado come through in 1983 (I think). Killed people, destroyed some buildings, including a church. The church I went to loaned out our building to a nearby congregation (some other denomination) who had lost their building. But how many times did I hear how god protected *our* building (never said, but strongly implied "and how he didn't protect their building", because clearly we're his favorites).

I suppose that worked for some people, but I couldn't help but think "what happens to your explanation if one of our churches is ever destroyed, which has surely happened. Are we then *not* under god's protection?" No, then, (and only then) god "works in mysterious ways."

I don't mind the mysterious ways explanation for things, (hell, if there really is a god, I'm sure not smart enough to explain its motivations and thought patterns, I barely passed chemistry). I just wish it was also trotted out as a caution when "good" things happen, so we don't get too cocky reading god's mind with our extra-fancy jedi mind tricks.

My new thing, when the bible is being shoved at me is "I'm not saying god doesn't know what he's talking about - I'm saying *you* don't know what he's talking about."

And still I can't fault people for needing to believe such a tragedy isn't senseless and without purpose - that somehow, it's for the best. That's a mighty cold floor to put your fragile human feet on.

May the victims' families take some comfort and peace wherever they can get it.

[eleny]

92. The existentialist road is impossible for them

The "god's will" pap goes down easier even when it collides with the concept of free will. And that's where "god works in mysterious ways" kicks in for the chaser. From there you can do just about anything in god's name. Handy dandy for when you're planning a crusade, no matter what the century.

[NGinpa]

71. Never ask the logical alternative!

It was nauseating. I wanted to yell - Where was your god when the shooter was dropping those two little sister dead? And where was your god when the shooter shot their father?


It always amazes me how the media will interview some dumb slob who survived a catastrophe where many others have died, and the survivor says he was blessed. I always wonder if they realize what that statement implies for those who died!! If God was all powerful and good, we sure have a lot to understand about the process, but hey, I guess it does not fit the stereotype to think too much!

[AngryOldDem]

76. That was dissonant....

...my next question is, why in the hell does a CHURCH need an ARMED GUARD, for Chrissakes?

And overall, I'm getting a bit weary of the "God was on my side" schtick.

[Redneck Socialist]

79. How shocking

A religious person invoking god. Who'd a thunk it. :eyes:

[pitohui]

80. you can't interpret it that way

it's her way of saying that she did not do this on her own and being modest and taking the spotlight off herself

you wouldn't like her any better, if she said, "yeah, go me, i'm a hero, i took out the bad guy whilst the other security guards froze up and did nothing"

we can all agree that a god who turns his back on us while new york is burning or new orleans is drowning is not a nice guy, but she wasn't a preacher giving a theological or philosophic discourse on the nature of evil, she was a volunteer and probably not that well trained security guard speaking in the language she understands about reaching a point of heroism inside herself that she didn't know she had

i don't necessarily object to her calling it "god"

sure fundies have their head up their ass but expecting someone to be well-spoken right after they've had to shoot someone, to death, in a combat situation is fairly unfair also

[ProfessorGAC]

82. Well I Did, And I do

This had nothing to do with god, and i wouldn't have had a problem if she would have simply said "I had to do something. Fortunately, i got him before he hurt others."

No god! No hubris! You presented a false dichotomy, as if there were only two options for her statement.

Not true.

The Professor

[eleny]

93. She was a trained professional

A newspaper article today, that DUers posted today, points out that she was an enforcement office in another state and that she was fired.

[a kennedy]

81. She was fired from the Minneapolis Police Department......

Assam, who moved to Colorado in 2000 after being fired from the Minneapolis police department in the late 1990s, said she had been on the third day of a three-day fast, praying to God to provide direction for her life. "I knew I was given the assignment to end this," she said. "I give the credit to God."

http://www.startribune.com/nation/12302716.html

[UnyieldingHierophant]

84. Her religion/faith nauseated you and made you want to yell...how tolerant of you?

[eleny]

94. Her using her faith the way she did disgusted me

And btw, I don't claim to be tolerant.

[UnyieldingHierophant]

101. Fair enough, I'm not either*

[electron_blue]

88. It sickens me to hear the guard claim God held her hands steady to kill the shooter.

but nobody thinks about God holding the shooter's hands steady. Why does God protect some people and not others? Why don't some people think?

[A Simple Game]

89. Why does a church feel the need for an armed guard?

Must be to keep out all of the gay people trying to convert their ministers.

If I walked up to a church that had an armed guard, I would turn around and leave, then again I am agnostic.

[piedmont]

96. Why do you feel the need to ask a question that's been asked and answered many times over on DU?

Must be to give yourself an excuse to insert some opinion irrelevent to the discussion.

[PassingFair]

98. Because there are METH addicts at that church.

It was all over the papers.....

[A Simple Game]

99. I didn't know, thanks for the reply. n/t

[PassingFair]

100. I'm talking about TED, you know...

[snooper2]

90. No You HEATHEN! I was making meatballs!!!!!!!!

[uppityperson]

103. God is in all of us. God does not micromanage everything, so bad things happen. nt

[TCJ70]

105. I don't know how to reply

"Every other sentence out of her mouth was about how god was with her. He kept her calm. It was only her, the shooter and god. God kept her hands steady.

It was nauseating. I wanted to yell - Where was your god when the shooter was dropping those two little sister dead? And where was your god when the shooter shot their father?"

I guess I'd just think that if I shared the same beliefs as this woman, and had done what she says she did, I wouldn't have any other explanation for it besides God was with me. I haven't asked her if she feels she's better than anyone else, so I can't say what her feelings actually are.

[Javaman]

106. Don't you know that god is a bullet? nt