Will America survive these bush/cheney years as a Democracy

[madokie]

lets assume for the sake of argument that we still are a democracy and go from there. The more I read the more I worry that we're not going to make it much longer.
any kind words are more than welcome

[frogcycle]

1. seriously doubt it

the penetration of all the supposedly independent systems that are supposed to provide "chekc and balances" is too pervasive.

Not just the three branches of fed gov, but the press, much of education, even advertising. The "mind control" machine is pretty well set; even if dems win everything in '08, the disinformation machine will work as it did in the Clinton years, and the eventual backlash will solidify Big Brother. They have been conducting a 'two steps forward; half step back' program since the early fifties.

[LakeSamish706]

2. If you look at a few threads in the past 1/2 hour or so...

The threads that have the Joint Chief of Staff in Israel consulting on Iran getting a bomb and the ratcheted up BS by Bush RE: Iran I don't think that we are going to survive even until next Novembers elections (if they are to be held, and I doubt it). I see this Administration causing something that will enable them to throw up an emergency rule like Pakistan has done, and then just fade into a Dictatorship.

Lets face it, there is nobody out there that is challenging this Administration and the American people refuse to wake up!

[madokie]

5. thats whats scaring me is no one seems to be willing to do what needs done

besides Dennis Kucinich. I hear a little lip service being paid here and there but so far not a thing is being done. Maybe I'm just nuts to even care at least that way I would be in the majority but thats not much consolation though. I really want my Country back

[superkia]

29. "the American people refuse to wake up!"

That is the true problem here. If you point out something corrupt that the govt has done, you usually get the "I dont believe it" thing. If you show some sort of proof, you then get the "well if the govt is doing that, there is nothing we can do about it so I will just survive the best I can until they do whatever it is they want to me".

No one wants to see the truth, they think it will go away and that we are in America so we will always have our freedoms with us giving no effort to even keep them. Do nothing, get nothing.

[Angela Shelley]

3. Yes, We can use our "consumer power"

by realizing that our consumer dollars CAN STILL make a big difference.

More in the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2446068

[Junkdrawer]

4. The problem goes WAY beyond Bush/Cheney...We've become an Imperialist Nation...

and our "colonies" are either surpassing us in economic vigor or are bleeding us dry in military costs.

In an effort to keep us on course, our democracy has been suspended. Maybe after the current ruling junta as destroyed our economy, we might resurrect some sort of "democracy". Maybe...

[Selatius]

6. That depends on what Bush-Cheney intends to do with Iran.

If there is a war, a lot of things can be unleashed that we don't want, one of which being terrorist attacks on US soil. If that happens, Bush-Cheney might be able to force through even more totalitarian legislation, and if the attack is severe enough, perhaps even martial law over metropolitan areas to "protect" them from more attacks.

[Breeze54]

7. We have survived the last crazy seven years and we will continue

to survive. We may be limping right now but we aren't done by any means.

[madokie]

9. one thing about it its going to take folks who are not afraid of a fight to keep it

bush/cheney are dead serious and have themselves painted into a corner where there is no way they can ever give up the reigns. I personally think we will weather the storm albeit a high cost though. If we do what is right we can come away from all this stronger than ever however if we don't we'll just be putting the end off until another day for our children and grandchildren to have to fight once again.

[tom_paine]

8. My heart and hopes say 'yes'. My brain, reason and knowledge of history

say it is very unlikely.

combined with the fact that I have been Paul Revere-ing to most anyone who would listen for seven years and so have at least some small statistical sample (anecdotal, I understand, and so I don;t mind that people question the veracity of this point) to go from.

Things don't look good. Even so many that are in the know cannot or will not take that last inetllectual leap. Not only is it too painful, but would by it's very nature galvanize people to DO SOMETHING to resist it (no I am not talking baout violence, but a National Strike seems like a pretty good idea for a start).

Much easier to stick one's head in the ground. That way, no one will miss the latest Brittany news.

At his point, I think the we can hope for is fort he Bushies to let Hillary assume the throne for four years. This will put a stop to the Bushie Vampirism for awhile and, from the Bushie perspective, allow us to recharge so that when they get back to sucking out our national lifeblood, there will still be some good and juicy stuff left. Which their wouldn't be if we continue our straight and swift beeline to National Ruin. 9/11ani might also serve this function, but that is less likely...although if his Bushie Masters demand it, he will obey.

The best and smallest of hopes still yet remaining, is that Edwards, Dodd, Richardson or Kucinich will be able to win in spite of the MSM and the Voting Machines being against him, and with large Democratic majorities take real, concrete action to restore our system of checks and balances, while prosecuting Bushie Criminals to show that no one is above the law and High Treason, RICO violations and Grand Larceny, among other things, are not tolerated in this country just because you know the "right people".

[Angela Shelley]

16. Please describe "a National Strike"

... it sounds interesting.

[tom_paine]

24. Think the Chinese Liberals in Tiennamen Square in 1989.

They weren't going to work or school, were they? Nope, just camping out for Liberty.

Or think the French people's actions over the changes in employment laws last year, minus the rioting.

Unfortunately, the Bushie Response to such open resistance, even if nonviolent I believe, would be so brutal as to make what the Chinese did to their Liberals look like a tea party. Of course, they and their MSM allies would make sure to sanitize it and cast the "Tiennamen Protestors" as criminals...just like the ChiCom Media did (Bushies and the Chinese Leadership are, after all, different flavors of the same kind of tyrants). Plausible Deniability, just enough squid-ink squirted inthe waters to create confusion in a "disinterested observer".

"I don't who's right, it's another he-said/she-said."

And what we would be striking for, among other things, is a restoration of the Constitution and the prosecution of Bushie War Criminals, and they can start with Gonzales since his multiple-perjury felonies are a matter of record, as is the FBI Director who's testimony contradicts Gonzales' serial perjuries.

Gonzales, it is said, has hired a defense lawyer. He won't need it. Like when Hitler marched into the Rhineland in '36, ready to turn and run at the least resistance...he was gratified to find none. This emboldened Hitler, a Bushie Ally.

Same thing, I'm afraid.

You might want to ask others more knowledgeable about the "nuts and bolts" of how such an endeavor works. Omaha Steve or some of the other Union People at DU probably could envision it much more realistically than I could.

[Angela Shelley]

25. Do you suggest that I start a thread

asking "can you envision a national strike"?

[tom_paine]

27. that sounds like a fine idea. Maybe word it a little more specifically to elicit answers

that are on target to your question.

Maybe something like, "Does anyone know how we would go about organizing a National Strike and what we would have to do?

Maybe mention Tiennamen Sqaure, the French or others (Google National Strike before posting).

Also, maybe cross-post it in GD, so it gets a lot of looks, and the Labor Forum, where people in the know about such things are likely to see it.

But yes, it sounds like a great idea and I am curious to what the answers would be, myself.

[Angela Shelley]

28. OK, but if it gets too crazy, will you be my legal assistance

and visit me once a month, with my favorite cupcakes?

[tom_paine]

30. I'll bake a file inyour cake. We'll get you out of there.

Plus, I am not sure you want a molecular biologist giving you legal assistance. :evilgrin:

[Angela Shelley]

31. You would have to better than the lawyers I´ve met.

[jaksavage]

10. Germany recovered from facism

We just need to recognize that we are a facist state
and make the needed changes...soon I hope

[madokie]

11. first step in correcting anything is recognizing the problem to start with

so in that you are so right. I'll go to my grave believing we can win but I'm not so sure that will ultimately be the truth though.

Whats so sad about all this is all these perpertrators are or have broken laws and could be stopped by arresting their sorry asses on the spot

[Junkdrawer]

12. Yeah. Hell of a cure, though...n/t

[Angela Shelley]

15. Only after the country was leveled.

and millions on all sides were dead.

[porphyrian]

13. Only if we want it to.

If we've already decided it won't, that will probably be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[madokie]

14. I keep thinking any day now the latest breaking news will be the arrest of this cabal by our FBI

but so far I haven't gotten my wish

[porphyrian]

17. That would be an awesome Christmas present. -n/t

[NeedleCast]

18. Yes

[TahitiNut]

19. It's in the ICU right now ...

... without health care coverage. :shrug:

It's going to get a LOT worse before it gets better - and I'll not be alive to see the turnaround. I doubt many of us will.
BEFORE there's ANY turnaround, there will have to be blood in the streets. We've seen NONE, yet.
Keep waiting. All the people "waiting" guarantees it'll get worse.

[madokie]

21. I think you're right

especially about the people waiting and it getting worse part. In my everyday life when I hear of something that will ultimately need my attention it gets it first breath, I find it always works out best when I take the bull by the horns approach first thing. thats what needs to be done here with this criminal cabal, some serious cage rattling and horn grabbing.

:toast: to better health

[bdamomma]

20. I think we shouldn't throw the IMPEACHMENT thing to the curb

to us free thinking people here on DU we all know they have committed numerous impeachable acts, I wouldn't let these guys off the hook and let your Reps and Senators know about it, we are becoming an oppressed people, and when these thugs are using us as their excuse by saying they are doing all this stuff including spying on us to keep us safe that is total BS, these thugs are just thinking about themselves. We are being oppressed by these thugs, and they are playing us all.

[GreenTea]

22. Nazi Germany......complete & total corporate fascism is the republican ideological goal

As the Nazi's conned the people with sayings like "a thousand years of peace" will be achieved, while using Christianity as theirs alone to exploit & control the people for their goals of hate, oppression & imperialism.... Bush & Cheney are no different...in complete line with Nazi and republican thinking and wants, this too is their ultimate goal, FASCISM....The republicans scream loudly it's not, but their actions & agenda prove otherwise... republicans ALL go along with an agenda which is neo-conservatism corporatism, exactly what fascism is....And the reason I despise ALL republicans...their ignorance, pretending and 'going along' is no excuse....ALL republicans are part of a party base on lies, hate, greed, intolerance of anyone different and with different ideas - Fascism.....This is what the republicans continue to force upon us more & more as each day passes by.

[Angela Shelley]

23. Why do we keep talking about "what THEY want"

Bush, Cheney, Neocons, republicans, moral majority, etc.

We need to talk more about "what WE want" and ACT as if we really want it.

[GreenTea]

26. Perhaps because our democratic "leaders" we voted for, do little or nothing.

They seem content to give us all crumbs while enjoying the benefits of corporatism, fascism and the wealth it brings the few....fuck the workers and the people!