Is there a taboo against calling "african americans" black?

[Evoman]

A post made in GD just a little while ago has me curious. The black people I know have never acted funny when I've used the word. They almost exclusively call themselves "black people". Moreover, I know at least two black people here in Canada who get upset when they are called "african american" because...well...they are Canadian (though I understand they also reside in North AMERICA, they don't like the name).

In addition, I myself don't usually label myself Latin American or anything like that. I sometimes use brown or I sometimes use hispanic, but never Latin American.

So is the term "black people" off limits? I've used the term on DU several times, and I would rather know now if I've been making an ass of myself because I don't want to offend anyone here. I'd especially like to hear from black people (or african americans) on DU.

[AspenRose]

1. No

In my experience black is preferred over A-A.

I'm multiracial.

PS-You could just always ASK the person which they prefer.... no group is monolithic :shrug:

[liberalmike27]

42. Well

It probably depends on how you say it, and who you say it to.

Saying "blacks commit all the crimes," for instance, is blatantly racist.

Uttering "Hey, look at that black guy," not so much.

[King Coal]

63. Just as long as you keep Cain out of it, like the you know who's do, both are ok.

[uppityperson]

2. Both these terms are flawed, can be used properly or improperly.

I think it depends on how it is used.

Edited to add most of my ancestors come from mid to northern Europe, at least those we know of for sure. Some from perhaps Indian subcontinent area.

[SteppingRazor]

3. I try not to use black as a noun, because that can have a pejorative connotation...

but I prefer black as an adjective, together with "people," to "African American."

[IA_Seth]

31. I agree whole heartedly...

I don't think saying "Black people" is offensive, but "The blacks" definitely is (to me - a white guy). I think it is all about context.

[Deep13]

4. I dunno. I had a friend in law school...

...who found African-American irritating because she was neither one nor the other. She was Jamaican.

I heard one woman on TV talking about Obama saying that since his Dad is actually from Africa and not the descendant of American slaves that Obama is African-African-American. WTF?

[VenusRising]

7. Talk about convoluted thinking.

:crazy:

:rofl:

[marmar]

10. It's understood that when you say African American, it's a person whose lineage is African....

.... who lives in the United States, and that technically would include people from the Caribbean, although I too know many people from the Caribbean who refer to themselves as Haitian-American or Jamaican-American etc.

[Deep13]

14. She didn't understand it that way.

For most people "American" = USA and not western hemisphere generally.

[marmar]

15. When I say "would technically include people from the Caribbean"....

I'm talking about the African lineage part, not "American."

[Deep13]

16. I see. n/t

[uppityperson]

12. Well, there you go. Another reason to look askance at him.

:sarcasm:

[debbierlus]

28. I don't see why this would be a problem

I think it is a bit odd to go out of your way to refer to people by genetic descent.

No one ever calls me 'Italian American or French American'....

I check white on forms.

Should I be offended to be called white instead of my lineage? I am white (more of a beige, but let's not split hairs :) )...Black refers to skin color & black is beautiful!

[Deep13]

35. "...Black refers to skin color ..."

Yes, but American Black people are usually brown. At least that seems to be the case here in Cleveland. Now in actual sub-Saharan Africa, people are actually black. I believe that this is because in the USA we are all basically mongrels anyway. There are very few people here with just one ethnicity.

[Bucky]

57. Sub-Saharan Africans come in a variety of pigmentation. Technically, they're 3 races...

... even if you don't count the Afrikaaners, the English, or the people from Madagascar and parts of Mozambique with Indonesian blood in them. You've got the Negroes (mostly the various Bantu ethnic groups), the Khoisan (or Bushmen), and the Pygmies.

The closer you look at the topic of race, the fuzzier the lines become, until it becomes obvious that "race" as we commonly mean the term is about 1% haplotypes and 99% cultural prejudices.

[Deep13]

59. "Khoisan (or Bushmen), "

Are those the folks that live around the Horn of Africa?

Yeah, I know there is almost no biological basis for the whole concept of race.

[Bucky]

60. here's all I know

Bantus are all over Africa (and are the ancestors to many Americans)
Pygmies are from rural areas in cental Africa
Bushmen and Khoi-San groups tend to live in the south of the continent, mostly in Namibia. Altho he lists himself as of Bantu heritage, I wonder if Nelson Mandela doesn't have some Khoi in him.

The pictures below are of two Bushmen and a young Mandela

[question everything]

68. This is the irony

we are using the term African American to describe specifically descendants of slaves.

For example, Teresa Heinz Kerry was born in Madagascar. The actor Charlize Theron was born in South Africa. Should they be called African American?

Colin Powell's parents came from Jamaica and, as mentioned, Barack Obama's father was from Kenya and came to Hawaii as a foreign student. Should they be called African Americans?

[Cabcere]

5. I don't know

but, like in the case of your Canadian friends, I think assumptions are sometimes made when trying to be politically correct - for instance, I had a poli. sci. prof a few years ago who was a really intelligent guy, but one day he was talking about Othello (some analogy, I think), and he called him an African-American. :crazy: I don't really have any definitive input on the matter, but I just wanted to share that experience, because I feel like it's pretty common. :shrug: Peace.

[gateley]

13. That's funny about Othello! nt

[Buzz Clik]

17. LOL! Othello as an African-American.

[Dr. Strange]

27. That reminds me of a description I read of Tim Russ' character from ST:Voyager

He played Tuvok, the "African-American Vulcan."
:crazy:

[Snarkturian Clone]

49. I remember that.

I think that's the first time I actually thought to myself "We need a better word here. There is no Africa or America on Vulcan!"

[marmar]

6. No, no one's going to flame you for using black......

....Now if you call me Armstrong Williams or Cowboy Troy, it's gonna come to blows. :)

[B Calm]

8. I hate when I'm called dutch american... Hell I was born here, not

in Holland!

[RB TexLa]

11. That seems so odd to me, we were alway taught that we are Irish in America

and have never referred to ourselves as "American," just Irish.

[JuniperLea]

34. That's funny... because my great granny...

Told me to never tell anyone I was Irish... she had suffered quite a bit when she first came here, dropped the "O" and the whole bit... would only speak Gaelic in private, etc.

She did, however, bring me a cute handmade doll that was white with straight blond hair... until you flipped her over to reveal a black girl with black curly hair. She wanted to be sure that I accepted people of all color... she was from New Orleans.

So, I should have black friends, but never tell them I was part Irish. Interesting.

[Bucky]

55. Well, it's cute, but useless. The Irish became white decades ago.

There's of course nothing wrong with taking pride one's heritage. It's just that American is probably a much bigger part of your heritage than Irish is. Still, culture is a random thing. If we ever go to war with Ireland, I promise not to lock you up.

[RB TexLa]

56. I know a couple of country clubs that will disagree with you. As well as many Americans

behind closed doors, say a couple of things and it comes right out outside of closed doors as well.

As far as the unlikely event of an Ireland and America war, I'm not going to promise where or what I would be doing.

[Drifter]

9. I hope not ...

that is the term that I use. It is the term that I have always used.
It is not the WORD that is important, it is the intended meaning.
I have never used the word black in a derogatory manner, and that is what is most important.

I too am insulted by the term African American. Unless you were born in Africa and emigrated to the US, this term is not appropriate. I would be insulted if people began referring to me as a German American. I would say, Fuck You, I'm an American.

Cheers
Drifter

[spin]

32. What would you call...

A white person born in South Africa who emigrated to the US? Whites make up 9.6% of the total population in South Africa.

Perhaps you call such an individual a "white African American".

Of course you might ask if a white African American would be insulted by being called African American.

I was born and raised in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I emigrated to Florida 37 years ago. When I visit up north people call me a "Cracker" or a "Redneck" because of the accent I've acquired over the years. Florida natives still call me a "Damn Yankee" because I still carry a bit of a Pittsburgh accent. I'm not really offended. I just think of myself as American as I was born in the United States.

What makes this country great is our diversity.

When I was required to take diversity training at a company I used to work for, I was really impressed with the instructor who was "black" or "African American"...which ever you prefer. A very intelligent insightful person, he told us:

"We are all in the same boat. If we all row together we'll reach our destination quickly. If some of us quit rowing and argue and some drill holes in the bottom of the boat, the best that will happen is that we will go in circles the worst is that the boat will sink."

[miles 2 go]

18. I've wondered that too. I don't like the term African American

I'm white so it's not really up to me, but it just always seemed that African American was just not good. No one calls me Anglo-American and no one but the police calls me caucasion. I'm white. It doesn't quite fit coz this page is white and I'm not that color. However white works for me.

I prefer black too. It's not quite right but everyone knows what is meant. African American just seems to seperate the American people. We are all Americans. Thats just it. Americans. Not Anglo Americans, African Americans, Irish-Americans.

If anyone comes up with whats "proper" but doesn't sound dorky, let me know. I'll work on using it.

Am I getting Flamed for this?:evilfrown:

[bunkerbuster1]

19. I prefer "African-American" when a person's lineage is relevant,

"black" if it's just a matter of identifying darker-skinned folks whose ancestors were from Africa.

The term "Black" as a noun is starting to ring ever-so-slightly pejorative, but I don't think it's fighting words anyplace I've frequented. Hey, these things evolve; we gotta go with the flow a bit, methinks.

[Bucky]

23. You dirty monkey faced pig fucking subhuman rat fart!

Don't worry, though, I'm only flaming you for mispelling "caucasian" and "separate". I'm only a grammar Nazi.

[miles 2 go]

52. The sad thing is...

I knew better than to post without using spell check. I did.

I use to be at least a fair speller. Grammar and sentence structure have always been a problem. I notice it has worsened since I had an unusual illness earlier this year. I'm afraid I may always be on your patrol list, grammar Nazi. :dunce:

[Bucky]

53. I'm worse than a grammar Nazi. I'm a grammar neocon. Everytime you misconjugate a verb...

I'll beat up some random people in your neighborhood, or at least in a neighborhood nearby.

[winter999]

20. What does the CP in NAACP stand for?

Will the PC Police insist on renaming the organization NAAAA?

[marmar]

22. Mon dieu! Not this tired strawman again.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[superduperfarleft]

44. I know, it's a real shame

that those poor oppressed white people can't use the word "colored" anymore. :eyes:

[Bucky]

21. I don't like it when people call me Asian American

In part this is because I'm not Asian American.

[Bucky]

24. "Black" is better for newspaper headlines, since African-American takes up space and AA is ambiguous

As a writer, I like having as many synonyms as possible to work with.

[Occam Bandage]

25. No. Now, I'm not black.

I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, though, in a black-majority neighborhood. "Black" and "white" are perfectly, completely acceptable.

[Wizard777]

26. No, I'm pretty sure they know they're black. It's rarely in bad form to state the blatantly obvious.

:dunce: Just a thought.......

[porphyrian]

29. Some people think so, others don't.

Personally, I'm not letting anyone take any words away from me, no matter how offensive they might be. That doesn't mean I'll use them all over the place or at all, but I'm not letting someone else control my language. Words, like flags, are just symbols. Context determines how offensive they are, not the symbols themselves. I wouldn't wear a swastika to a synagogue, for example, but I would expect to see them in the Holocaust Museum.

Edit: removed spare "s," anyone need one?

[Forkboy]

30. I hope not because I use it.

I had a neighbor years ago and when I called her African American she said with a laugh, "Pffft...I'm from Europe!" :rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

33. Black (capitalized) and African-American are both fine........

period.

Signed,
A Biracial French born naturalized US citizen who identifies herself as Black out of habit (but also pride cause I emmigrated from Paris to Berkeley/Oakland in the early 70s) because back in my day, African-American wasn't yet a term, "Biracials" were as rare as Dodo birds, and mulattoes were said to be too tragic for my taste.

[AspenRose]

61. What she said.

I love and respect you so much, Frenchie. :hug:

(DR, German-born) :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

66. Cool!

and Cool! :pals: back atcha!

[riverdeep]

36. Black is just a descriptor, like white.

There are some that take insult to it, most don't. Language and terminology are fascinating to explore. The terms we use are the terms of whoever has the most power at the time. Whoever has the most power gets to determine language, make no mistake about it. Those who think it's no big deal, are those for whom the language is already favorable.

That said, the George Carlin rule of language becoming more and more unwieldy applies here. He had a bit about how a soldier's mental trauma started out being called shell-shock. Plain, simple, easy to understand. It eventually morphed into Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Black is much less unwieldy than African American, and for that reason alone, many people prefer it. 'Black' just seems more honest, and less a term set up by committee.

During the sixties, two major avenues were taken to address the various terms blacks had been called. For the first time in the history of this country, blacks were allowed to choose what they were going to be called. Before it was always up to whites, who chose terms from 'negro' to 'colored'. One avenue was taken by the Black Power movement, who sought to 'take back' the term like what gays do with the word 'queer', for example. They went with 'Black is Beautiful'. Another avenue was taken by the more elite players, intelligentsia and the like-African American. Jesse Jackson popularized AA in the '80s, and it spread from there.

Today, the term is being less used by blacks themselves.

"So, we will have a name for ourselves - and it should be Black. "Colored" and "Negro" had their good points but carry a whiff of Plessy vs. Ferguson and Bull Connor about them, so we will let them lie. "Black" isn't perfect, but no term is.

Meanwhile, the special value of "Black" is that it carries the same potent combination of pride, remembrance and regret that "African American" was designed for. Think of what James Brown meant with "Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud." And then imagine: "Say it loud, I'm African American and I'm proud."

Since the late 1980s, I have gone along with using "African American" for the same reason that we throw rice at a bride - because everybody else was doing it. But no more. From now on, in my writings on race I will be returning to the word I grew up with, which reminds me of my true self and my ancestors who worked here to help make my life possible: Black. " John McWorter, 'Why I'm Black, Not African American'

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_latimes-why_im_black.htm

Personally, I think the major media continue to use the term, AA, because they want to play it safe, rather than because they have their finger on the pulse. They figure no one is going to come after them for using AA, but someone might for using black. The last thing an executive wants to see when they look out the office window is Al Sharpton standing with a placard and cameras, because that's a fight they're unlikey to win, right or wrong.

[Kingshakabobo]

37. Hey, I thought "Hispanic" was not kosher anymore.

I thought it was Latino?


BTW, is "kosher" OK?

[Lilith Velkor]

54. JEW-HATER!!1!

[Throd]

38. When I lived in a black neighborhood I never heard "African American"

They pretty much all self identified as "blacks"

[Dorian Gray]

39. I say black instead of African American...

In my community, there are many Afro-Caribbean people who attend my church, and they don't identify as American, as they are recent immigrants. And I've lived in Europe and Hong Kong, both where I had some black friends who were not American.

[CT_Progressive]

40. No, but there is against using the word "taboo" in reference to black people.

:hide:

[DutchLiberal]

41. I guess it's exclusively an American issue. You never hear about "African Europeans"...

Or "African Dutch". Our problem relates to people with (grand)parents of Moroccan or Turkish descent. We still call them 'Moroccans' or 'Turks', even though they were born and raised in The Netherlands. On the other hand, they still call themselves like that.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. Welcome to DU, DutchLiberal!

:hi:

[DutchLiberal]

69. I have been here for quite a while, but still: Thank you!! And:

That's a nice photo. Kind of a relief to see it during all the HRC-Obama fights that currently take place here. :)

[taught_me_patience]

43. I was taught, while in HS and college, that "black" is pc. n/t

[verse18]

45. I don't mind being called Black as an identifier, but I refer to myself as

Milk chocolate brown.

[Sultana]

47. ....

:D

My little brother calls himself brown or chocolate and he is very serious about it.
Little kids are great:rofl:

[FredScuttle]

46. Black is beautiful, baby

[Snarkturian Clone]

48. I am one of 15 white people in a work place with 560 black

people. New white workers say "African American" for the first month or so. After that, everyone says "black". It's just easier, I think. "African American" is 7 syllables. "Black" is one.

If someone is born in Africa and moves to America, what do we call them? A message above speaks of this as well. What do you call a black guy from Canada? To me it seems almost an insult to say "African American" because it almost implies that the person being described is not a full American.


On a side note, I knew a Native American who was offended at the word "Native American". He preferred Indian.

[AspenRose]

62. Yep

After living in New Mexico for several years, I found that was the norm (Indian vs. Native American).

[Catherine Vincent]

50. We really should get away from using "Black" and "White"

No one is actually white in color or black in color.

[Snarkturian Clone]

51. Let's call white people

"Chartangako T'yourks" and call black people "Grussiyeqal M'kekves".

[AspenRose]

64. French vanilla, butter pecan, chocolate deluxe

Even caramel sundae is gettin' touched!

muahahahaha }( }(

[caseycoon]

65. While reading all the replies....

I got to giggling about someone calling me German_Swedish_English_Norwegian_Danish-American and that's just the ones I KNOW about!
:rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

67. "I'm black and I'm beautiful"

I remember seeing a film back in the 70's about the "black movement" where an instructor was prompting a boy of around 8 years old to respond this way whenever someone called him "colored" or worse.

I remember that it changed my young opinion of the black community as a group of silent sufferers.

[backscatter712]

70. I just say "black"

Unlike Stephen Colbert, I am not race blind. :P

As mentioned earlier, I try to use the term as an adjective rather than a noun - "He's black." rather than "Those blacks."

Used in the correct context, I don't think it's offensive. But then again, I'm white, so what do I know?

[Party Line]

71. What about Asian-Americans?

Is it ok to call them yellow people?

[Zech Marquis]

72. not that I know of

and I've always called myself a black man. besides, if someone would ask me ,"exactly where in Africa did your ancestors come from Zech?", I wouldn't have a clue. Not to mention, how would I explain my ancestors from North America and England?