Ok, a dumb question: Why are Dems boycotting Michigan?

[panader0]

I heard that on MSNBC and I've gotta admit I didn't know it. Does it have something to do with the new primary schedules?

[fenriswolf]

1. yeah michigan tried to be a big dog and move its primary

forward. the DNC told them to back off. Michigan ignored them and like an Umpire DNC said "yyoooouuurrrr outta here"

[knitter4democracy]

23. It's a touch more complicated, but that's about it.

Yeah, strong union state, long history of going blue--it's all up in smoke. Heck, I know liberals here who know more about Paul and McCain than about the Dems, and I seriously doubt we'll go Dem in the GE.

The party higher-ups wanted Michigan to get a boost. Our economy's tanking, we're losing population, and our people are really hurting badly, so it was probably more about getting all that campaign money here and getting our economic issues out there. When NH and IA looked like they were moving their times up, against the contract everyone agreed to, FL and MI beat them to the punch and moved their times up. NH ended up not moving theirs, so we were left hanging in the wind. Instead of coming up with a decent compromise like the GOP did, we were left outside in the cold.

Honestly, Hubby and I aren't giving a dime to the Dems at all this year over this. Not one thin red cent of our money. Nobody gives a crap about the Dems in this state, but they call up wanting our money? Hell no!

[Hawaii Hiker]

29. I hope you're wrong about that

When you said you don't think Michigan will go Democrat in the general election....

That's a big problem..MI has 17 electoral votes, Gore & Kerry both won MI., cannot afford to lose that state in Nov!......

But Wayne County goes heavily Democratic (Kerry had like 70% of the vote there, & that's probably the most populated county) so hopefully that will offset some other areas that go for the Republican...

Wayne County results from 2004 election:

Total votes 864,728

Kerry - 69.39%

Bush - 29.81%

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

[knitter4democracy]

33. If they lose Detroit, they lose the state.

Then again, with the massive population loss because of the economy (they're saying we'll probably lose a house rep at least), that's up in the air. It all depends on who votes more. If Detroiters stay home in protest or cross over and the rest of the state that's usually red stays red, we'll go Republican.

Yes, we're a swing state. The Republicans realized that and made a decent compromise to keep us in the running. The Dems didn't, and people here are mad as hell. We're already fucked with job losses and foreclosures. Instead of taking the chance to make our economic issues a national issue, the Dems turned their backs on us and then still call up and ask for money. Fuck that. If they really cared about Michigan, they would've respected us and come up with a better solution. As it is, today as I get ready to go put in my protest vote for Kucinich, I'm ready to chuck our entire state party leadership and turn my back on the national party that already turned its back on me.

[LordJFT]

30. its not that the dems don't give a shit about michigan

it's just that they knew if they campaigned there they'd be screwed in Iowa and NH, which are where they really need to win. I don't understand why so many people don't understand what a tough position they're in. People like you who refuse to vote or donate bc of this are only hurting the party. If you think the system is unfair, lobby for a regional primary or something instead of hurting the party.

p.s. Several months between when there's a clear winner and the GE so I predict Michigan to be solidly blue again.

[knitter4democracy]

32. Do you live here? How do you know?

Look, we have no signs, no rallies, no ads, nothing. The Republicans had a debate here, have ads all over the print media and the airwaves, have had rallies and fundraisers, and the Dems have nothing. It's like we don't exist at all. That means we're starting in the hole, far behind McCain or any of the other Republicans. We have very little grassroots apparatus, and most Dems are so discouraged that they're not even talking about it or getting behind anyone.

If I'm hurting the party, I really don't care at this point. They've kicked us while we're down in Michigan (higher unemployment than during the Great Depression, one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country, and people are dying up here), but then they want us to band together and fundraise and phone bank and host house parties and rallies in just a few months? Why? They'll get our votes, since the Republicans would be worse, but they shouldn't count on much more than that.

[truedelphi]

2. I think (empahsize think) that it has to do with

Candidates being penalized if they actually campaign.

And that penalty comes in from the Michian Primary schedule disobeying the rules about the Primary schedules.

Hopefully someone else has more information about it.

[Bucky]

3. Right. The rules said they could only run as early as Feb 5th.

They thought they could get more political sway with an earlier date--the way Iowa whores it up for farm subsidies (most of which go to millionaires) every 4 years. Given Michigan's dire economy, the needed some good old fashioned political pandering. Thanks to the DNC they won't get any.

[rocktivity]

4. I'll see your dumb question and raise you a dumber one, LOL

Why NOT have all fifty states vote for their party nominees on the same day?

:shrug:
rocknation

[crispini]

8. Because that would totally remove the 'retail politics' aspect of running in a small state.

Only the candidates with BIG BIG $$$ could afford a national campaign.

[Virginia Dare]

40. It would have to be done in conjunction with..

a major overhaul of campaign finance. I won't hold my breath.

[MrMickeysMom]

9. That is actually the smartest question I've read here all afternoon.

... with NO ANSWER in site!

[progressoid]

12. Because candidates would have to come up with hundreds of millions to do it.

Consider that Obama spent 9.5 million just on TV ads in Iowa. Plus the cost of 145 paid staffers. Plus transportation. Plus print ads. Plus radio ads. Plus mailers. Plus etc etc etc etc.
Then multiply that by more than 50 (it's even more expensive to run a campaign outside of podunk states like IA).

Candidates would have to spend two years just fund raising to have the cash to sell themselves to the public.

Of course, most likely, the candidates would simply focus on a few large states and ignore the rest of the nation.

[Bill McBlueState]

41. so this is a fundamental problem with the system

If campaigning nationally for a national office is too expensive, the solution is to change the way campaign finance works. Not to restrict democracy to states where advertising is sufficiently inexpensive.

[TahitiNut]

5. Two 'Battlegrounds' States, Florida and Michigan, thrown over to the right.

Retirees and labor. Blacks and hispanics. Unemployment and off-shoring of jobs.

Abysmal failures of "Beltway Politics" as usual.

[knitter4democracy]

24. Amen to that.

They're not getting a dime from our family, either. Not any of them. Screw them. They didn't care about us and our votes, so they aren't getting our money.

[fenriswolf]

6. also someone around here has a sig line and has posted

a couple times about the michigan gov being in cahoots with hillary and that he will throw out obama and edwards votes. Ill post it if i see it

*here ya go*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4065227

[knitter4democracy]

22. She. Our governor is Jennifer Granholm, whom I used to like.

Here she is with my son giving her a hug:

[fenriswolf]

26. oh very nice lady

looks like a younger hill

[knitter4democracy]

35. She's got great charisma, but she hasn't led the way we need her to.

Granted, the Republicans have stymied her every single move, but she's not making anything happen. The state budget crisis has been a total fiasco, and it's just going to be worse.

[AnOhioan]

7. Cause the DNC is bullying the states to behave

[progressoid]

10. The RNC stripped Michigan of half of it's delegates. The DNC took them all.

The Democratic primary in Michigan of no consequence, because the DNC stripped Michigan (as well as Florida) of ALL of its delegates for attempting to hold their primaries before Feb. 5. The candidates even signed a pledge to not campaign in either state. In addition, each of the Democratic candidates (except Clinton, Kucinich, and Gravel, requested in writing to have their names pulled from the ballot. Theirs, along with Uncommitted, will be the only names to appear.

[rocktivity]

13. Randi Rhodes says that Michiganers should vote either Kucinich or uncommited

but NOBODY name's should be written in, because that vote won't be counted.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Demeter]

15. That's Right! Election Workers CANNOT Say A Word About It, Either

We are not allowed to explain anything about how to vote once the polls open. The voter may call the City Clerk (or equivalent) but NOT AFTER getting the ballot! No cell phones in the voting booth!

It's going to be a nightmare. And there are separate ballots for GOP and Democrats, which is different than before, when one could choose in the privacy of the booth since everything was on one ballot.


Bet those stupid Diebold machines won't accurately sort the ballots into Dem. and GOP, either, and we'll be there all night sorting them out....

[rocktivity]

19. Can people stand a legal distance from each polling place and hand out flyers?

:shrug:
rocknation

[Demeter]

20. The Flyers Could Not Enter the Polls, or Come Within 100Feet of the Doors

but certainly outside of that one may have signs, flyers, people, etc.

[HeraldSquare212]

11. The DNC wanted to give blacks (SC) and hispanics (NV)

an opportunity to impact the outcome. Dean lived up to that promise. The state parties are members of the national party, they lost on the idea of moving their contests forward and refused to abide by the majority decision.

[fenriswolf]

14. or it could be a DNC ploy

to disenfranchise dem voters in the primary who would vote for the more progressive candidates.

Just saying it could happen, I'm sure the people at the top levels of the DNC are just as suceptable to corruption as everyone else.

[spoony]

16. I guess screw the "blacks and hispanics" in MI, eh?

Fuck Dean and his enabling of an unjust and unrepresentative primary schedule.

[knitter4democracy]

25. Yeah, it's not like we have any minorities here.

:eyes: Tell that to the people in the big cities and small farm towns.

I was a DFA member until this year. Fuck that. Not one dime of ours is going to the Dems because of this.

[TahitiNut]

18. Ever visited Detroit?

:eyes: :eyes:

[Labors of Hercules]

17. I don't know shit about the internal politics of the DNC, but...

This whole business with Michigan and Florida feels like bad juju to me... :shrug:

[fenriswolf]

21. all it would take would be

for louisianna to have been barred to and i would certainly cry foul at the DNC. anyways the whole primary process is so ass backwards anyways no wonder the good candidates drop out first.

[AZBlue]

27. And now Michigan will be a red state.

Yeah, good idea!
:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

31. You don't understand.

The right-wing of the Democratic Party will point their fingers and say "See? We can't count on those blue collar and urban black Democrats! 'Liberal' policies don't work!!"

:eyes: :eyes:

[knitter4democracy]

36. That's exactly what will happen.

They'll let Michigan swing in the wind, just like always.

[tandem5]

28. The thing I want to know is why would Obama, Edwards, etc. pull their names?

honestly what would it have hurt to just stay on the ballot?

[knitter4democracy]

39. Iowa and NH threatened to not vote for anyone who campaigned here.

Hillary maintained that keeping her name on the ballot but not coming here or having a campaign up and running fulfilled the agreement. The others were worried about losing IA and NH (Hillary was the front runner when this was all decided) and so banded together and took themselves off our ballot. Kucinich's campaign got the paperwork in a day late, so that's why he's on the ballot.

Frankly, they can all kiss my ass today. I'm voting Kucinich when I drop my son off at kindergarten in an hour.

[tandem5]

42. Wait that can't be...

I thought Obama and Edwards weren't beholden to the establishment??

[aikoaiko]

34. Its punishment for producing eminem.

;)

[Strawman]

37. To kiss Iowan ass

The campaigns pledged to not campaign in MI, which jumped ahead of schedule against the rules. They knew Iowa and NH would still be first and they valued those early, momentum building, high profile wins over us, so they signed pledges to not campaign in MI and to affirm Iowa and NH's position as the first contests.

I think it really hurt Edwards. He has a hell of an asset here in David Bonior that's being wasted. If he had won Iowa, maybe it would have been worth it, but not contesting MI in exchange for a second place finish was a bad move, even though Hillary has powerful backers here also.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Sheer, short sighted stupidity, and politics as usual, come to mind.