Why praising Reagan touches a nerve in all of us (over 18, who lived here)

[robbedvoter]

It's his enduring legacy of BS.
I won't deal with people he killed in wars, Aids neglect etc. They've been brought up by others. It's the think tanks altering the national perceptions - that still at work today. Obama buying into it - doesn't help.
Before Reagan, liberals were the people challenging the establishment - for all the right reasons. They were the rebels, the idealists - and they were cool. Conservatives were - your obtuse parents, missing the point on everything.
By the time RW bought the media and their think tanks spread their memes through it - it was all upside down:
Liberals were irresponsible, dirty hippies guilty of past "excesses". You'd think they meant drugs - but Reagan's base knew it meant civil rights - one of those secret code words like "states rights".
Their think tanks came with the "political Correctness" - another way to legitimize bigotry. It perfectly turned the tables on liberals. Now they were no longer the cool rebels but the prissy schoolmarms who will hit you with the ruler if you "innocently" say "nigger" - just for laughs. The conservatives became the free spirited, humorous ones that the PC police just wouldn't leave be! (later on this image was reinforced with blonde spokespersons like Coulter et al) The think tank media started calling conservatives "the cool kids" and liberals the PC police. And all the while, they were laughing all the way to the bank, cutting social programs and the rich people's taxes.
The lies have been sustained by the "liberal media " (that's one meme that died!) to this day.
So, I am asking Obama's supporters - in all honesty: can you see why we hit the ceiling when I read stuff like:

"A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements over duties and responsibilities."
and


"Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster."


If you can't, just imagine, years from now, a candidate in your party, praising Bush's resolve in the war on terror and his accomplishments in promoting "family values"

[bluethruandthru]

1. Great Post! n/t

[jjr5]

78. No sh - - --

Dude, Reagan? REAGAN?? Guess who else loooves Reagan? Mitt Romney - and every one else who may suffered some kind of acute amnesia for the past 20 years.

She just isn't it. Washington corruption has just been ingrained in her, hasn't it? What, can we expect more "tax cuts" or even better, a revised/revisited NAFTA!!!

On a lighter note, what's up with W.J. Clinton, lately- constantly yelling?? He must have overdosed on his viagra, or something.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

89. I HATE RAYGUN

[MrCoffee]

2. It's off to the greatest page with you!

:thumbsup:

[rubberducky]

3. I lived in N. CA when reagan was the gov.

Southern Cal. elected him and kept him in. He was all about BIG MONEY. Poppy was to reagan what cheney is to junior. IMHO Obama was wrong, wrong, wrong to even go NEAR there.

[kineneb]

39. Gov. Raygun sucked. n/t

[noiretextatique]

41. i don't think he won in LA

must have been the orange county, the inland empire, and beyond.

[Stardust]

71. For a "blue state," CA sure picks some strange governors.

:wtf:

[noiretextatique]

77. yep...tis true, but california isn't all blue

some of northern california is, and some of southern california is. not so with central california, and not so behind the orange curtain down to san diego.

[Kajsa]

92. Yep, it was not LA.

I lived in West LA at the time.

Raygun was not well liked there, to say the least!

[Blue_In_AK]

68. I lived in Northern California then, too...

Reagan was an awful governor, and he hated people like me.

[DJ13]

4. So I guess Hillary lost your vote?

"Her list of favorite presidents - Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, both Roosevelts, Truman, George H.W. Bush and Reagan - demonstrates how she thinks. As expected, Bill Clinton was also included on the aforementioned list."


From Hillary's own campaign website-

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=4674
HillaryClinton.com - Media Release

[robbedvoter]

5. She never had it. But she may conceivably get it if she attacks Bush, Raygun, GOP

So far, it's Gravel for me.

[DRoseDARs]

64. I'm not a Hillary supporter, but she said nothing of the sort...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4108953#4112852

And the DKos link:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/18/211537/038

[focusfan]

6. No one remembers the Regan tax increase on trucks

Even though everyone pays for it.He made the trucking industry the highest taxed industry in the U.S.but no one will even acknowledge what he did.

[tkmorris]

12. I remember that

I had a few friends that were truckers at the time, they were pretty upset by it all. I remember one in particular who insisted it was part of an effort to force independents off the road.

[balantz]

55. I remember that.

[robbedvoter]

14. He worsened lives of many people, in many ways. But the perception manipulation

pretty much sent us all in the fringe-land - even our reps wouldn't use the word "liberal" unless as an insult.
I think it's the reason I cannot buy the divorce between reagan's ideology and mere strategy. Not saying here Obama is a Reaganite, just that he misses the point on him completely. And that's dangerous in a democratic candidate - in the post-bush era.

[Frances]

7. Great post

It's possible that the only answer to Obama's comment about Reagan is "You had to be there." I was and the comment has upset me tremendously.

Of course, if Obama is the nominee, I will vote for him in the general. But I will wonder if he'll be Repub lite.

[OneGrassRoot]

8. Hi, robbedvoter...

thanks for the great post. I've noticed your efforts of late, and I appreciate your thoughtful, INFORMED responses. :hi:

[robbedvoter]

13. Thanks!

[oasis]

9. Then Obama praises Reagan and perpetuates the myth of "his greatness".

:puke:

[rubberducky]

11. Exactly! That cut to the bone with me.

[flyarm]

46. me as well..it made my head almost explode w/anger! eom

[balantz]

57. THAT's what sent me over the edge!

[Hoof Hearted]

104. That was a big deal breaker for me. Prior to Obama's (R) love fest I supported him

and Hillary both. He narrowed it down for me this week.

[DBoon]

10. absolutely

I lived then:

- Reagan made the word "nigger" respectable again. During the 1970's, racism was something low class and ignorant. Racists were jerks. Under Reagan, racism became "straight talk" - "cool" "sophisticated" people used racial insults to be "edgy"
- The number of homeless skyrocketed during Reagan's first years. You almost never found someone living on the streets out of necessity until then
- Along with skyrocketing poverty was a cultural turn against the poor. Poverty was no longer a national disgrace in the world's wealthiest country - it was the sign of a "loser" who deserved it
- The "war against drugs" started, beginning a long period of assault against civil liberties. Once you could start a job without taking a drug test. As long as you met the qualification you were hired.
- The only people who seemed to do well during the Reagan presidency were financial speculators and defense contractors. Everyone else sort of stagnated.
- The idea of public service vanished. The idea of sacrifice for the public good vanished. Thanks to Reagan, if this country ever faced a challenge requiring sacrifice for a common goal, we would fall completely apart.

My recollection of the Reagan years involved starting adulthood with a diminishing take-home pay (thanks to Reagan's tax "reform" and social security tax increase), and being increasingly priced out of the housing market, thanks to a flood of financial speculation in real estate.

[robbedvoter]

18. Exactly! Thanks for the details. The "Me" decade as it was called, meant it was

OK to be an individualist (read "selfish prick"). We had movies like Wall Street with it's credo: "Greed is Good" - and of course all the Wall Street crime.
One of Reagan's most celebrated jokes reminds me of Dildo Reilly awful quip about homeless war veterans: "tell me about people going to bed hungry and I'll show you people on diet"

[balantz]

58. Oh God yes, I remember that "joke"!

All of these reminders bring up these memories about how much I despised that thing called Reagan!

[JHB]

101. If I recall correctly, it was the 70's that were called the "Me" decade...

The 80s were more of the "ME! MEEEEE! MINE! I'M getting Mine so Fuck you, you son of a bitch LOSER!" decade. At least among so-called "movers and shakers".

(Or the "Me, Al Franken" decade if you remember the SNL bit.)

[stickernation]

80. hey at least we had the MINUTEMEN !!!!

and the DEAD KENNEDYS
and the BAD BRAINS
and BLACK FLAG and the huskers & replacements
and SONIC YOUTH
and X
and the first LEMONHEADS album

the thing that KILLS me these days is how BAD rock and roll is during this * bastard's two-terms.

it's like, at least in the 80's we had underground rock and roll and college radio.

today, the kids are listening to the worst crap I could ever imagine (Maroon 5?! Dave Mathews Band ?!).

pretty much the white stripes and that's all she wrote for the top tier of younger rock bands.

it's like, the pixies and rage against the machine and bloody ZEPPELIN AND VAN HALEN BOTH have to reunite, it's so awful out there. they obviously see a market not being served AT ALL by an industry puking up stupid ass bands like Fall Out Boy :wtf:

i'm supposed to get excited about the arcade fire. nice people, nice music. so the best music indie rock can deliver is sort of adult contemporary and canadian. THIS CULTURE IS FUCKED.

i mean I like the dirty south hip hop and all but we're hardly talking public enemy or bdp on the ideology tip here. we are talking repugnican values: money, guns, power, sexism. good beats though. notice how even WU-TANG sort of sucks now :wtf:

you have to get into israeli trance or old music to survive this awful era of music.

it's almost like the mainstream dreck of the 80's - wherever you go, whatever you do, Richard Marx will be right there waiting for you. but at least we had a FUCKING BOSS UNDERGROUND.

there is always high on fire and the sword, ok so stoner metal lives. ok i feel better now.

-s
"until now, i never noticed, that fascism has, many disguises" - d. boon

[Chipper Chat]

83. Funny you mentioned Richard Marx.

A few weeks ago I went into a grocery store and heard "whutevrrr you do - whrrevrr I go.." and I thought to myself 'I'm so TIRED of that song.' Well, wouldn't you know I went from there to a mall, opened the door, and what did I hear? "whutttevrrr you doooo.. I about screamed "Would you people just play EMINEM or something?"

[bonzotex]

15. when Reagan was selling AA missile parts to Iran...

....I was a B-52 pilot practicing to fly potential missions into Iran. The spare parts he sold for I-Hawk missiles in Iran gave them one of the few weapons they possessed that could shoot us down. Later I spent three years in Central and South America seeing the aftermath of the Reaganaut policies there. I haven't voted for any Republican, for any office, since. Now we have Bushco wanting to see if the TOW missiles Reagan sold to Iran can still punch through American tanks. Bush and pals felt The Reagnauts hadn't quite completed the task of totally fucking us all so he brought back many of the geniuses from the Reagan years to finish the job.

Republicans have been, are, and always will be about screwing people over for money. It is no more complex than that. Citizens vote Republican based on self-delusion and well oiled lies. The old men that control the Republican agenda don't give a shit about anything but money, either milking it from the working and middle class or looting it from the treasury. These people are traitors who kill and maim people overseas and sell out their own country for fucking money. It really is that simple.

There is no reason for any thinking person, much less a national progressive politician to wax nostalgic for all the "good things" about Reagan.

(edited for content and spelling because I was too pissed-off to write properly)

[Aviation Pro]

56. Welcome Buff driver.....

...it's good to see so many members of the "pointy edge of the spear" club coming over. For the record, I was on the ground during that era.

[bonzotex]

102. thanks!

Despite my low post count, I'm not exactly new to DU. I'm not sure I ever voted for any republicans before 1988 either, but I know I haven't since! Anyway thanks for the shout out.

Were you USAF ground crew or...? I was based out of Guam for the 3 years before they shut down the Buff wing.

[Aviation Pro]

103. U.S. Army based all over the place....

...mostly in Europe, for the better part of a decade.

[bonzotex]

108. Hooah

I was a USAF ALO for the 1st BCT, 4th ID for 3 years -- Shame how the Army has been exploited.

[Aviation Pro]

110. Yep....

...it burns my ass that my Army has been exploited so much. Even my SF buddies are starting to realize how much they've been had.

[devilgrrl]

16. Oh, you're just a Kucinich toady - what do you know?

:sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2707207&mesg_id=2707485

[robbedvoter]

19. Wow! remarks like these are a direct result of reagan BS - illustrates my point

perfectly.

[devilgrrl]

20. Isn't that incredible?

And that jerk is still here! :puke:

[robbedvoter]

23. I've seen even worse yesterday (mercifully locked now)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4096605

[devilgrrl]

26. OMFG!!!

I need to know why that idiot is still here... un-fucking-real

[Binka]

28. Alert often on his/her posts.

They are insulting to the beliefs of Democrats everywhere.

[Annces]

17. I was affected by Reagan social program cuts

namely college loans and forestry jobs. The fact that people are so alarmed at Obama's admiration for Reagan is something I think means a lot, because people that know Reagan have been politically aware for a long time.

[robbedvoter]

22. I think it's in good part generational - hence my "18 years old" in header

people born AFTER Reagan are turning 18. many of them turn to Obama - which is great - except for the fact that Obama was also very young/missed his history lesson on those times. It's in part why civil,rights activists stick to Clinton (besides his lifetime credentials). THEY know history. They know what Reagan meant by "the excesses of the 60 and 70s" and the "entitlement vs responsibility" code-speak. Obama would do well to learn it quick - before it sinks his campaign completely.

[DBoon]

27. Kids going to college don't realize there used to be financial aid

Before the 1980's tuition and living costs were more in line with what you could earn at crappy paying jobs.

There was more financial aid to go around, even for middle class kids.

You didn't have to go in hock for tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree.

[kineneb]

40. one of the last to go through before the darkness - class of 81

CSUChico. we knew things were going to get worse. I could not have afforded college without the assistance.

[Nay]

42. And don't forget--you could actually count on getting a decent job after

graduating from that college! Now, ppl are going into debt for degrees that will gain them nothing.

[awoke_in_2003]

72. What really sucks about college these days

is the price of books. I just started going back. Went to buy my Trigonometry book- $159 plus tax. Could have bought a used one, but if I did I would have to buy a new registration number to do the online homework. Savings would have been a whopping $5.

[Cabcere]

111. Oh geez, tell me about it.

x( I haven't even bought books for this semester yet (we just started on Wednesday), and I am NOT looking forward to it. I'm definitely going to try to get most of my books through Amazon or Half.com or something like that, but that's not always possible and it's a total wallet-buster. :( Not cool.

[Usrename]

21. Great post, and it's difficult to understand how Obama could be so wrong.

It is very strange and a little bit terrifying.

[SharonAnn]

106. And he put Clarence Thomas in charge of the EEOC. Which pretty much

destroyed implementation of the Equal Employment Opportunity bill that was law.

Clarence pretty much gutted the enforcement mechanism of the department.

Thus his qualification for a Federal judgeship and then the Supreme Court of the United States.

Thanks to Reagan.

[Reciprocity]

24. I remember trying to buy our first home....

It was a mobile home and the interest was 21%.

[avaistheone1]

105. Home mortgages interest rates were insane during the Reagan admin.

We barely eeked into our first home on a adjustable rate mortgage back then.

[stillcool]

25. You might want to listen to the interview.

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&oaso=news.rgj.com/breakingnews
But then again, you probably don't. It's so much better to make crap up! I have a question. "Obama supporters" Is that anyone who questions this bull?

[robbedvoter]

30. I listened to the interview. I am not trying to undermine Obama, help another candidate

In the interview he speaks of Reagan offering "clarity" and "optimism" and being the party of ideas' Later, people who read the book - posted additional quotes - clearly praising Reagan.
I am not saying Obama is a Reagan wannabe. I am explaining why using Reagan's BS sanctioned by the media is so distasteful to those of us who saw it concocted under our own eyes. I am saying that Obama's embracing ANYTHING from Reagan is deeply insulting to us. I say "anything" - in response to "only the election strategy" defense.
The strategy was deeply connected to the ideology - as it addressed not optimism, but nationalism and prejudice.(We're #1!Enough with the civil,rights movement!")
We can't have our own candidates reinforce the lunatic myth that the other side is clinging to. If he wanted to put down Clinton, he should have used someone else. JFK, FDR.NOT Reagan.

[stillcool]

32. well...I lived it also...

actually..I'm still living it. Quite the legacy. I would hope any democratic nominee would hope to accomplish a fraction of the change Reagan started. Weird, huh?

[robbedvoter]

43. Not weird. Disingenuous. Shill like disingenuous.

[stillcool]

44. I would have had no idea

if it weren't for your comment. Thank you so much for explaining yourself.

[pscot]

35. great interview

I'm still undecided, and some statements attributed to Obama have been disturbing. This interview eas very reassuring. Thanks for the link.

[stillcool]

36. Your welcome.

It's hard to wade through the crap sometimes.

[navarth]

62. Agreed, Barack gives good interview

He's a charmer, no question about it. But look, I'm sorry..he fucked up on this one. He needs to make up for it. Maybe it was smart of him, I don't know. But it left a very bad smell, as evidenced by all the comments here. Personally, I'm never going to be able to forget it.

I'm troubled by all the faults of the candidates. I'll have to vote for one of them. I hope nobody is going to be mad at me if I express opinions about those faults.

When it comes to passing the smell test...sorry, Barack is not at the top of the class. Sure I'll vote for him if it comes to that. But that smell....that Reagan smell...ugh

(on edit)...Hell yes I'm over 18 and I lived here. Here in Detroit, our mayor at the time, Coleman Young, referred to him as 'President Pruneface'. That was about the only thing funny about those years.

Fuck Reagan. And a small amount of fuck to anybody that invokes him.

[Stardust]

69. "Fuck Reagan. And a small amount of fuck to anybody that invokes him."

:rofl: You funny!

[libnnc]

29. With Reagan within range of the big red button...

my teenage years were one long, anxious bad dream.

We lived in total fear and knew that he was just one interrupted nap away from destroying the earth.

Bad, bad memories.

[Berry Cool]

31. I've gotta K&R this too, because it's all so well said

and the sad part is, this disappoints me because Obama is my age and should know better. He is not "too young" to remember this stuff or to have been affected by it. Why couldn't he have just said he wishes he could develop the kind of popularity with some people that transcends party lines--the way Reagan did with so many people who just didn't think through what he was really saying or doing or likely to do--and leave it at that?

[noiretextatique]

33. it was the worst of times...the reign of ronnie

until now, that is. obama is either a fool or tool, and i suspect the latter.

[Lugnut]

34. Perfect!

The last sentence alone makes the perfect comparison.

[htuttle]

37. I graduated in 1981. All I got to say about Reagan is...

Old Mother Reagan

Old mother Reagan
And her crew
Took away
From me and you

I hope she goes far away
She better go far away

Yknow it aint right
When its all wrong
This is the old mother Reagan
Protest song

Old mother Reagan
Shes so dumb
Shes so dangerous
How come...

Old mother Reagan went to heaven
But at the pearly gates
She was stopped!


Gordon gano: vocals, giutar
Brian ritchie: bass, vocals
Victor delorenzo: drums, vocal

Produced by jerry harrison
Recoded & mixed by david vartanian at dvs perversion room, milwaukee -- 1986

[Caria]

91. Still a great song!

We used to play that a LOT.

[Echo In Light]

38. Because that regime represents the current form of fascism. They used a phony "war on terror" too

To disguise their own state sponsored terror/aggression. They also played the Orwellian-subversion of language to the hilt in domestic policy/rhetoric i.e. "family values" that actually gutted social safety nets.

[Mythsaje]

45. Ain't no doubt about it. n/t

[Senator]

47. K&R&Impeachment Is Our "Common Purpose"

[Lerkfish]

48. the best quote about reagan came from Roslyn Carter

in an interview I watched, she said what she didn't like about the Reagans is that they "made us comfortable with our prejudices again".

[Divine Discontent]

99. one of the most classy women this nation has known... n/t

[mogster]

49. Great post

My thoughts exactly.

Further use of terms:
The term 'Moral Majority' is the father of the term 'some people say'--an assumption of democratic majority and the god given right to always be justified--and the term 'liberal whining' leads directly to the torture acceptance we see today. Under Reagan, the religious right and conservatives became the revolutionaries, while we in reality became the conservatives. It was the big turn around. Even the party colors switched; The republicans assumed the red color of revolution while the Dems went blue.

To quote the book They Thought They were Free, about the nazi takeover in Germany during 1933-1938:
"Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed."

[depakid]

50. Reagan began the war on science at the federal agencies

Remebr James Watt and Ann Gorsuch?

He also legitimized the fundies, who were a fringe group before he legitimized them and their irrational AND unpopular policies throughout his administration.

That's reason enough not to go around praising and perpetuating the Reagan myth.

:mad:

[spinbaby]

51. I remember the 70s

When you could make a decent living at mundane jobs like waitressing. And you good make a very good living indeed if you belonged to a union.

When, even through the gas crisis, gas stations had attendents that checked your oil and cleaned your windshield. And they made enough to live on in that job.

When museums and parks were almost always free.

When we had heard of homeless peope--there were reputed to be hobos--but we had never seen one.

When housing, heat, healthcare, and transporation were affordable, but things like clothing and TVs were expensive enough that you thought carefully before buying. I remember paying over $600 for a color TV in the 70s--that was more than three times our monthly rent at the time.

When drugs were illegal but nothing much was done about it. Fraternities at the college I went to openly grew pot plants in their front windows and there were two head shops on campus that sold a variety of colorful bongs.

[OzarkDem]

52. Agree. Kids, don't even go there...

Use any other argument you want to give your candidate leverage, but don't praise the GOP for anything they've done in the last 50 yrs. They've done nothing but harm our country and work to destroy our democracy.

You cannot put lipstick on that pig.

[Cybergata]

53. Reagan destroyed the best school system in the world in California.

Even before he was president, I was annoyed with Reagan for what he did to a model of what Public Education should be.

What he did in Central America was unspeakable. He decided that Nicaragua was Communists and set about destroying a government that was helping the poor and bringing a better life for more people of Nicaragua.

His war on drugs was so hypocritical as the CIA hauled drugs from Columbia into the stable democratic nation of Costa Rica. Anyone who wants to praise Reagan should read The Secret Government by Bill Moyers just to see what an evil rat b*ast*ard Reagan was. Those in power wanted to bury Iran-Contra, but there are those of us who make sure it will not be forgotten.

[balantz]

54. Amen!!!

You said it sister! THAT's the truth that has been twisted which is the source of the outrage we feel when we hear such adulations of the neocon philosophy that was so disgustingly laid on this people by that evil one we call Ronnie * Fucking * Raygun!!

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[balantz]

59. What I don't understand is that I am the same age as Obama,

and we are both late boomers. I had no trouble seeing the horrors in the coronation of Reagan when I was 18.

[SIMPLYB1980]

60. K&R!

[jwirr]

61. This thread just illustrates why it is dangerous to believe that

change is always good. This is why I want details of any promised change. I too lived through the raygun years and see that they have led directly to what we have today. Neither Obama or Clinton should have been praising that idiot who has used change to lead our country to ruin.

Change must come only from careful planning directed by real needs.

[NewJeffCT]

63. The "liberal media" meme still has not died, sorry to say

ask the average run-of-the-mill person if the media is liberal, conservative or middle of the road, and they'll probably say it's liberal, except for Fox News. They'll probably agree that there is too much focus on Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and the missing blonde of the month, but they generally think the media is liberal.

Why is that? Because, the RW has been saying that since the early 70s and it hasn't really been challenged until the past few years.

[balantz]

65. The media has become increasingly right-wing.

When people listen to it they believe that a lot of it is accurate, and have had it beat into them that it is liberal. Fox is one glaring contrast that supports the illusion that something like NPR, or even NBC is liberal. When we look outside of the media box and find the real news, it gives us an entirely different picture of what is really happening. Unfortunately people are trained to turn on their boxes and tune into the choices that are all slanted to the right, but painted as though an unbiased voice. It IS a conspiracy of the right that has taken over the media with which to lead us where the right wants us to go.

[ManWroteTheBible]

66. First...

Let me say that I like Obama as a candidate. Up until now, I've liked his message. I think a lot of people are overlooking the obvious... his statement was completely political. Remember, 1st and foremost, he is a politician - like Hillary. I think that may be why Reagan and Bush-the-smarter were on here list of favorite presidents. They're playing to the Right. Call it pandering or whatever you want, but that's what they're doing - alienating their base (us) in the process. I think, John Edwards played that card best by saying he would never site Reagan as a voice of positive change. (Ok, I added the "positive" part, but everyone knew what he meant.

Regardless, as much as I hate Obama's comment, or Reagan's and HW's inclusion on Hill's list, the DEM nominee gets my vote.

Just one question... When the nightmare that is the Bush mis-Administration is finally over, does he really have to come back to Texas. We don't want him. He's not really a Texans. Can't they just load everything onto AF-1 and para-drop the lot of the cabal and their belongings in Paraguay?

Hey... maybe since no American institute of higher learning wants to house his pResidential library, maybe it can be built on the grounds of the University of Paraguay! Just a thought.

Peace and love to all fellow progressives!

[Doc Martin]

76. Yes! Off to Paraguay with the whole lot of them!

[BlueJac]

67. My ass is still sore from Ronald Reagan.......

He sucked as a president, and behind the scenes Bush I sucked harder. Democrats calling Reagan great is totally idiotic!! Trickle dowmn economics is a disaster like Milton Friedman, the fucking haters of the middle class.

[Clinton Crusader]

70. I'll tell ya what drove me to drink...

his endless, nerve grating, hair pulling FUNERAL!

CRIKEY! I thought I would go mad! Everytime I checked the cable news channels it was STILL on! And the cable news channels themselves even mentioned they were deluged with calls and mail from people complaining about they're overboard obsessive coverage of the funeral.

I mean come on! Give us a freakin BREAK! He was prez like 20 years before he died, we didn't need to see this whole freakin' thing and this funeral was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard for someone who was out of office for so long. But good ol' Ronnie and Nancy had to have the whole nine yards. Good night nurse! She was acting like she was still First Lady for crikey sake!

:evilfrown: :mad: :puke: :eyes: :wtf: :boring: :grr: :banghead:

[Caria]

94. I was able to watch European coverage

Saw a great piece on "filming the funeral" - showed how the US media coverage was more like Hollywood movie-making than news, with "man-on-the-street mourners" rehearsing over and over until they got the right take, small groups of hearse watchers filmed to look like large crowds, and so on. It was a frigging show in more ways than most Americans were given the opportunity to understand.

[Poiuyt]

73. That's why I'm worried about the $500 million Bush Library

That money isn't going to buy books. It's going to buy a think tank to rewrite the Bush legacy.

[Doc Martin]

74. Reagan, Prophet of Greed

Forget poor people, launch your campaign in one of the South's most racist cities, and don't even talk about AIDS.......... lovely man

[nonconformist]

75. K & R!

:kick:

[bulloney]

79. The myths surrounding Reagan are unbelievable.

Myth: Reagan was a fiscal conservative
Reality: Never submitted a balanced budget. The national debt increased more under Reagan than all preceding presidents combined. Budget deficits under Reagan were all-time high, exceeded only later by Bush II.

Myth: Reagan believed in less government.
Reality: Government grew under Reagan. I used to deal with domestic farm policy, which was a microcosm of how government "shrank" under Reagan. Farm bills under Reagan got away from being market-oriented and made farmers more dependent on direct government payments for their incomes. Farm programs were just generally more bureaucratic and cumbersome to sign up for.

Myth: Reagan ended communism.
Reality: The fall of communism and the Soviet Union had more to do with people like Mikhail Gorbachev, Lech Walesa and Pope John Paul II. Reagan just happened to be president when the signs of the fall of communism became more visible to the West.

Myth: Reagan was a family-values person.
Reality: Reagan was our first and only divorced president. The dysfunctionality of his family is pretty well documented. Plus, Nancy was pregnant on the day she married Ronnie.

Myth: Reagan put America to work and turned around the economy.
Reality: On a per-annual basis, jobs were created at the virtually the same rate as they were under Jimmy Carter, whose reputation was that of a president who was a failure with the state of the U.S. economy. Much of Reagan's job creation can be attributed to him unleashing the military-industrial complex. Even right-wing columnist Warren Brookes admitted as such in one of his last columns in the mid-1990s.

[SharonAnn]

107. First two hundred years in U.S. national debt was about $1 trillion, after Reagan's

first term, it was about $2 trillion and after his second term it was almost $3 trillion.

Then after GHWB's first term it was $4 trillion.

Reagan tripled the National Debt!

[iamthebandfanman]

81. the only thing i hate is reagan getting credit for USSR

when in reality everyone knows the USSR destroyed itself.
with or without reagan around.
thats what happens when u starve ur people so you can build big bombs.
who knew?

[Two Americas]

82. reinforcing right wing lies

Unfortunately, talking about the "excesses of the 60's" and about Reagan bringing people hope reinforces two key right wing lies. They are not benign or neutral. The fact that they are worded vaguely makes this worse.

Sadly, I think that many of the defenders of the remarks actually did get the dog whistle message accurately and agree with it. Most of the defenders say that it was Reagan's methods that were being praised, not his policies. Reagan's method was lying and appealing to people's prejudices. Characterizing the left as guilty of "excesses" was the foundation for Reagan's policies.

I saw one poster say "well sure, Reagan was bad for the uber-leftists. I am not denying that, nor is Obama." Another poster said that we need to "get past" the causes of the 60's, and that those older people who were "clinging to them" needed to get out of the way so the younger people could move forward with "new ideas."

The excesses of the 60's were not the actions of the protesters, resistors, marchers, organizers, and activists. The excesses were the responses by the authorities. There is no way to fudge on this. The Republicans have been blaming the "hippies" and "radicals" from the 60's for all of the country's problems for decades. It has been a calculated campaign of lying.

No good can cone from accommodating and promoting the key right wing propaganda themes - that it is the left that is causing all of the problems with their excesses, and that what the people want is to not have to worry about those left wing causes and instead to feel good and to have hope.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

84. K&R

Isn't LieBerman praising Bush's policies? LieBerman isn't a Democrat any more--
now he's the best Senator the Republican party ever had!

"Beginning with the election of Ronald Reagan, many Democrats in power drifted away from the core values of the Democratic Party and started running as “Republican-lite” candidates. They started trying to compete for corporate campaign money by permitting awful trade agreements that undermined the health of the American economy and weakened the American middle class while helping the economic elite become even more powerful."

"Wealthy foreign corporations are often having more impact on government policies than the needs of average Americans. Media consolidation has blocked out almost all non-corporate voices in the discussion of public policy issues. Edwards wants less corporate control over everyday life and has specific programs in mind to move in that direction." more....


more... http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=opedne_stephen__071223_edwards_is_fdr_with_.htm

[debbierlus]

85. Exactly - Very well stated. Thank you.

The myth of Reagan as a great President is pure myth.

The right worships this false ideal & then Obama perpetuates it. Gross.

Obama is not right for POTUS. He just doesn't have the depth.

[sb5697]

86. Speak for your damn self, while I don't care for Reagan

I am quite capable of reading, listening and thinking critically. It seems from the responses on this board to Obama's observations of Reagan's skills versus his "policies" (which Obama did not come close to endorsing) many people lack that ability and/or are just look for anything to slander a very good man.

[madrchsod]

87. "A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements

over duties and responsibilities". duties and responsibilities is the heart of the welfare reform act that clinton signed and has been reauthorized ever since. depending on what side of the fence one`s on, it`s been a big hit or disaster.

[MissDeeds]

88. Spot on

Thank you for this, robbedvoter. K&R.

[walldude]

90. Damn that was a great post!

I was 17 when Reagan was elected, young, wild, and invincible. I could see what they were doing and I could see what was coming, although back I was more idealistic and thought they wouldn't get far. I look back now and wish I had been more involved and tried to do more to stop this madness...

[GreenTea]

93. Reagan was exactly what Bush is, a neocon corporate fascist huckster.....

only there to sell the lying greedy corporatism republican ideology, i.e. Fascism.

Selling bullshit to the people through like ability...(although Bush's "likeability" bit the dust long ago).

That's why as a liberal progressive I can't support Hillary or Obama both corporate whores and the sweet things they said and admire about fascist Reagan & Bush.....fucking moderates!

[Chisox08]

95. Reagan did more than any other President

before George W Bush to hurt the middle class and the working poor. He was the gateway to the Bush administration. Even Cheaney and Rumsfield worked in the Reagan admin.

[Divine Discontent]

96. you are right, and doesn't that say enough

tell Cheney, Rummy, Feith, Condi, Powell, and B*sh where to go, Stewie ---

[jeff30997]

97. Every good American should go on a pilgrimage to Reagan's Mausoleum once in their life.Here's a pic

And don't forget to give an offering!

[IsItJustMe]

98. Simple, He heart so many people. There are very few people who lived thru the Regan years that

weren't directly affected, or indirectly affected by this guy. I was working for CETA at the time, and guess what, Regan killed it. No more job. I was damn near starving at the time, making minimum wage at CETA, and damn if he didn't cut the legs right out from underneath me. That is a fact. Millions of other examples of how Regan literally destroyed American dreams and lives.

To me, it wasn't that he was evil, he was just clueless and ignorant of how his policies were seriously hurting people, much like his current protege.

[Divine Discontent]

100. he hurt so many people, you mean. he was clearly wanting to please the billionaires who got him in.

[Lorien]

109. Great post. So I guess that Obama would never refer to himself as a "liberal"?

that's a shame, since Jesus , Gandhi and MLK were all Liberals but Reagan was not. I'm shocked that he would buy into that crap about liberals not working hard, obeying the law, caring for their families or loving our country. We love our country as an adult loves another adult; when it goes down the wrong path we try to turn it around. Repugs love their country like an infant loves it's momma; without question, never seeing her alcoholism or abusive nature. I grew up in a liberal home where hard work and moral behavior was prized beyond all else. I still work six days a week, 12 hours a day. I certainly don't appreciate Mr. Obama's spouting of absurd and misleading RW memes.