"The destruction of the grand design of our Constitution may settle on yesterday-February 12, 2008"

[kpete]

As Scott Horton says today:

If things proceed on the course now set by the Bush Administration and its shortsighted collaborators, and the national surveillance state is achieved in short order, then future generations looking back and tracing the destruction of the grand design of our Constitution may settle on yesterday, February 12, 2008, as the date of the decisive breach. It hardly got a mention in the media, obsessed as it was with reports on the primary elections, the use of drugs in sporting events, and that unfailing topic, the weather. Yesterday the Senate voted down the resolution offered by Senator Dodd to block retroactive immunity for the telecoms and it voted for a measure which guts the Constitution’s ban on warrantless searches by extending blanket authority to the Executive to snoop on the nation’s citizens in a wide variety of circumstances, subject to no independent checks. On the key vote, the Republicans in the Senate continued to function in lock-step, as they have on almost all significant issues for the last seven years, while the Democrats fragmented. Their vote summed up everything that’s wrong with Washington politics today.

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002382

[ThomWV]

1. If immunity is granted we have lost the rule of law. K&R

[tavalon]

14. Rule of law, rule of law, rule of law

I seem to remember hearing that chanted incessantly, by Republicans of all people. I just can't seem to remember when (kidding. It was chanted over, of all things, the Clenis).

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Republicans use law, the Constitution, and the Bible as they see fit.

Meaning only the parts that they want to see. And when they're caught out, those things don't apply.

Find some of the quotes from Republicans regarding the NEED for impeachment against liars back when Clinton was under fire.

[MisterP]

18. like the "Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution": its cover shows the Founding Fathers

tugging against a giant hand in a judicial robe--presumably on the side of modern capitalist neo-Stalinism
or Jonah Goldberg's article that Pinochet brought democracy to Chile

[tavalon]

19. They cherry pick "Democracy"

[TahitiNut]

16. Immunity? To whom? Corporations or "illegal immigrants"??

It fascinates me that there's an apparent difference ... and which way that 'difference' cuts.

[Kermitt Gribble]

2. K&R...

"Their vote summed up everything that’s wrong with Washington politics today."

There isn't a wole lot that's right.

[tavalon]

3. I don't think it will settle on a specific date,

a specific era, yes, but many of the bill of rights have been systematically gutted by this administration. Unfortunately, Bush will get his fame that history will bestow, he will be known as the one who finally destroyed our grand experiment. It took about 50 years, but his were the final and most prominent nails in the coffin.

[ThomWV]

4. Yesterday - when the Senate passed that treasonous FISA bill.

And if an immunity containing version comes out of Committee then you should start to consider where else in the world you might like to live - because this place is toast.

[texanshatingbush]

6. Actually, I HAVE been considering where else to live....

I become more depressed each day with the things happening to this country and its Constitution. Does anyone know where I find good synopses of various countries regarding economy, politics, culture, "personality of the country", etc.? I guess I'm looking for something like an international "Ten Best Places to Live".

New Zealand?
Australia?
Canada?
Norway?

Seriously.

Thanks!

[ThomWV]

8. My list is a litte smaller

You might want to look into New Zeland's immigration laws before you give it much consideration. I added France to the list, I've given a lot of consideration to Mexico too.

[tavalon]

11. Hable Espanol?

Muy poquito aqui. Even less French despite 4 years of it in a high school so far in my past that I barely remember the name of it.

The French despise us, btw. They think we're petulant and childish and oh, so provincial. They aren't wrong but they sure are snotty about it.

New Zealand has tough requirements. Now that I've branched out of Labor and Delivery, I might have a chance there, but I would never take my child so far away from his birth mother, so that one's out but damn, New Zealand is so amazing. I even like sheep, well, the fluffy kind, not the kind around here.

[tavalon]

10. It's been a year and a half since I finally escaped Texas to get to Washington

I lived in Texas for 24 years and I'd like to say it grew on me, but the only way that would be true is if I considered it a fungus, which frankly, I almost do. The only thing that made the last decade of living in Texas bearable was living in Austin, an oasis in a hostile state.

You need to think about emigration requirements. New Zealand is fabulous but they have pretty strict requirements, Australia too. Canada does too (and unless you have an essential skill, they will expect you to be fluent in French). I don't actually know about Norway but isn't that damn cold? So are parts of Canada, but not the part I'm looking at. I am so lucky that 18 years ago, I chose nursing as a profession.

[americanstranger]

13. You can't emigrate to NZ if you're over 35 years of age.

The wife and I looked into it a couple of years ago, and I couldn't move there if I wanted to.

- as

[walldude]

15. Here's a good place to start

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/living/more/best_countries_to_live_in_abroad/


Good luck. If we continue to go down the shitter then as soon as my kids are out of school I'll be looking for a new home as well.

[texanshatingbush]

22. Tres interessant ! Muchas gracias !

The article at the link even includes a link for "retiring abroad".

Good stuff....thanks!

--THB

[tavalon]

7. I know that Seattle settled on that abysmal tourist slogan, "Seattle, We're Metronatural"

But my personal tourist slogan is, "Seattle, It's Almost Canada." and as a nurse, I've been considering it for some time. I'm lucky, emigration will be a given if I choose it.

[philly_bob]

5. K&R and signed petition (at firedoglake.com) calling for House version.

One quibble with petition: after you fill in information, it takes you to a screen that invites you to provide the email addresses of your friends, with no clear indication of (1) how to exit and (2) whether your signature has already been added to the petition.

I'd like to see a notice like:

"Your name has been added to the petition. Thanks. Now, would you like to send the following message about this petition to some of your friends and family? If so, fill in their names in the field. If not, click "DONE" to exit."

[Jacobin]

9. Actually, I would argue its 2000 when SCOTUS picked the president

[tavalon]

12. See, that's the thing

It's been a slow steady march to death. It's picked up speed in the last seven years but this was a half century in the making.

[Javaman]

20. sorry no, it was in 2000 when the supreme court idiots chose to overrule the constitution

and appoint moron*. that was the day they took a giant dump on the constitution.

After that, everything else is just gravy.

[femrap]

21. K and R

No privacy...we're wiretapped. People will start to disappear. And now that prisons are owned and run by Greedy Corporations, they'll want as many 'widgets' in their cells as possible.

These elections are a waste of time and energy....and a damn distraction. What else are the neocons and W going to enact before the election?

I'm still wondering how W is going to institute martial law before the Election....then we won't have any election at all.

[Pooka Fey]

23. K&R