Removal of woman referee by religious school has some crying foul

[proud2BlibKansan]

By STEVE ROCK
The Kansas City Star

“It’s kind of a sticky situation,” Michelle Campbell said of the decision by St. Mary’s Academy to prevent her from officiating a basketball game. Just minutes before tip-off, basketball referee Michelle Campbell was ready to take the court. Shoes laced up, shirt tucked in, whistle in hand.

Then she noticed the discussion between her officiating partner and the school’s athletic director.

Finally, Campbell got the news: She wouldn’t be officiating the boys’ high school basketball game. Because she’s a woman.

Her reaction? “Dumbfounded,” Campbell said.

more . . . http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/487355.html

[GodlessBiker]

1. Classic and illegal sex discrimination.

[Bill McBlueState]

2. it might not be illegal

I'm no lawyer, but often religious institutions get a specific exemption from discrimination laws. Despite that, they like to go around thinking they're our moral superiors.

[GodlessBiker]

9. Perhaps in connection with a religious position, but a sporting event referee?

[spooky3]

12. not a lawyer either, but this is an inter-school contest, isn't it?

St. Mary's can refuse to participate in athletic contests if they are so offended, but I don't think they can demand that another organization discriminate on the basis of sex.

The same would be true if they insisted that officials not be black.

On re-reading the article, I see it wasn't clear whether it was inter-school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Maybe not illegal

Unless the school receives federal funding, they can't be sued for discrimination.

[GodlessBiker]

8. Huh? Discrimination laws apply to private employers.

Federal funding really has nothing to do with it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Yes it does for schools

If they don't receive federal funding they can discriminate all they want.

But here's the rub - if they have received as much as one library book as part of a federal grant, they are obliged to abide by anti-discrimination regs. And most schools have indeed received SOME grant money. But lately, religious schools have figured this out and are not applying for federal grants so they CAN discriminate. This particular school may be one of those.

[spooky3]

33. Not as employers, they can't, I don't believe

as long as they are large enough, etc. There is no broad, blanket exception of educational institutions, as far as I know. You might be thinking of this part of Title VII of the CRA, but note how restrictive it is - it doesn't refer to educational institutions or associations in general; it refers to only a particular kind of employee in a particular kind of organization:

EXEMPTION

SEC. 2000e-1.

(a) This subchapter shall not apply to an employer with respect
to the employment of aliens outside any State, or to a religious
corporation, association, educational institution, or society with respect
to the employment of individuals of a particular religion to perform work
connected with the carrying on by such corporation, association,
educational institution, or society of its activities.

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/vii.html

See also this section:

(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, (1) it shall
not be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to hire and employ
employees, for an employment agency to classify, or refer for employment
any individual, for a labor organization to classify its membership or to
classify or refer for employment any individual, or for an employer, labor
organization, or joint labor­management committee controlling
apprenticeship or other training or retraining programs to admit or employ
any individual in any such program, on the basis of his religion, sex, or
national origin in those certain instances where religion, sex, or
national origin is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably
necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or
enterprise, and (2) it shall not be an unlawful employment practice for a
school, college, university, or other educational institution or
institution of learning to hire and employ employees of a particular
religion if such school, college, university, or other educational
institution or institution of learning is, in whole or in substantial
part, owned, supported, controlled, or managed by a particular religion or
by a particular religious corporation, association, or society, or if the
curriculum of such school, college, university, or other educational
institution or institution of learning is directed toward the propagation
of a particular religion.


***

I don't think these sections provide an exception for St. Mary's because they may not be her employer and they may not have required other officials to be members of their religious organization. So they aren't discriminating on the basis of religion but on the basis of gender.

There may be other relevant sections.

See my other reply to your other post for more links regarding Title VII and educational institutions.

You may also be thinking of the OFCCP requirements for federal contractors, but these pertain mainly to affirmative action in employment.

I'll leave this to any DU attorneys out there to set the record straight. I'd be happy to be shown where I'm wrong, with links.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Teachers in private schools get screwed all the time and have no legal recourse

Of course they can always file a civil suit, but they have no grounds under federal law, unless their school gets federal dollars.

Of course state laws may differ.

This official also may be able to take action against the officials association she belongs to that assigned her to this game. But the pay was only $40 so it may not be worth it for her to pursue this.

[spooky3]

42. That's simply not true - I have provided you with several links

to the federal law (Civil Rights Act of 1964), but rather than reading them or raising a legitimate question, you just keep asserting this misunderstanding. I'm not going to do any more of your research for you.

Many people are protected on paper by the law but don't file suits because they don't know their rights, or more often, because the costs of fighting are so high (financial or non-financial). But that's very different from saying that they "have no grounds under federal law."

Read up on it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I have done the research, Many times.

Another poster pointed out in this thread that the Boy Scouts and Salvation Army (in high profile cases) proved that there are indeed exceptions to these federal regs. You cannot point to anywhere in any of this legislation that says ALL institutions are mandated to abide by the law.

Private schools sprang up all over the country in the 60s and 70s for the purpose of excluding black children. They continue to do so today. Don't you find it interesting that they have never been sued or forced to abide by Civil Rights legislation?

Once again. These laws do NOT apply to private schools. I've worked in both private and public education for nearly 30 years now. My dad spent his entire career in private ed. I could tell hundreds of stories but I can see you are not listening.

[spooky3]

11. not true

See the Civil Rights Act provisions (on EEOC website, for example).

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. EEOC regs are completely different than

anti-discrimination regs for schools. EEOC regulates employment. There is an entire civil rights dept within the US Dept of Ed. that deals with civil rights complaints. That would be where to look for info on this - the US Dept of Ed website.

And unless a private school receives federal dollars, they can discriminate all they want.

[spooky3]

32. Sorry, I think you are wrong

A referee is an employee of some organization (unless she is considered a private contractor somehow). She is not a student. This is an employment discrimination issue, not an educational issue, and not an access to sports (Title IX) issue.

Employment rights are governed by Title VII for covered employers.

For example, see:

http://www.de2.psu.edu/harassment/legal/EEOC_employers.html

"Briefly, the laws cover all private employers, state and local government employers, and educational institutions that employ 15 or more individuals. These laws also cover private and public employment agencies, labor organizations, and joint labor management committees controlling apprenticeship and training."

As another example, see:

http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/issues/coach/article.html?record=886

"EEOC NOTICE Number 915.002 Date 10/29/97
Source: http://www.eeoc.gov/docs/coaches/txt

1. SUBJECT: Enforcement Guidance on Sex Discrimination in the Compensation of Sports Coaches in Educational Institutions.

2. PURPOSE: This enforcement guidance sets forth the Commission's position on the application of the Equal Pay Act and Title VII to sex discrimination in the compensation of sports coaches in educational institutions..."

It's pretty easy to Google this topic for more examples.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. But the party she would be complaining against is the school

and they are not subject to anti-discrimination laws because they are a private school.

Private schools discriminate all the time and it isn't illegal. They are selective about who they admit and they regularly kick out kids with disabilities. They also hire and fire at will.

My dad worked in private schools for 40 years. (Coincidentally, he was also president of the local officials association.) His salary was cut one year when the school was undergoing a budget crunch. My dad was close to retirement age. The school wanted him to retire and reducing his salary was their way of forcing him out. He talked to a couple attorneys and wanted to file an EEOC complaint. He also looked into an age discrimination lawsuit. But because the school was private and received no federal funding, he didn't have a case.

The key is federal funding. If a school doesn't get it, they aren't obliged to abide by federal regs. EEOC and OCR are both federal agencies.

[spooky3]

43. Sorry, this just isn't consistent with the law (see links). You may be unaware of some particular

facts in your dad's case that made it exceptional. Or, maybe the attorneys he spoke with were wrong. Or maybe he misunderstood what they told him. For example, they may have told him that the school's actions did not constitute age discrimination under the ADEA or that it would be difficult for them to prove it.

You haven't refuted the evidence that I linked. Please read the links and do some research.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I have spent my entire life in education and know the law

So we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

[riderinthestorm]

36. Boy Scouts and the Salvation Army come to mind

Both private, religious organizations that are allowed to discriminate and get away with it because they don't take federal funds.

Not sure where a religious school falls, and I am not an attorney, but the BS and SA orgs came to mind when I read over your comments.

[spooky3]

44. again, I believe this is a misunderstanding

See:

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=boy+scouts+title+vii&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.ksd.uscourts.gov/opinions/062130KHV-57.pdf&w=boy+boys+scouts+scout+title+vii&d=UAJstnDuQNxy&icp=1&.intl=us

(if this link doesn't work, use Yahoo to search for "boy scouts title vii" and you'll see it on the first page.

If you look at this race discrimination decision, you'll see that the Title VII WAS applied to the BSA; the plaintiff just didn't have enough evidence in support of her case. With regard to religious discrimination, the issue may be more complex, but you would need to point out where in Title VII there is an exception that applies to the present situation. A religious institution may be able to discriminate with respect to the religion of its employees (see the links I posted elsewhere on this thread) but that doesn't mean they can discriminate on the basis of gender, which is the issue in the Kansas case (if in fact the official was an employee of St. Mary's, which it appears she is not).

As an employer BSA must meet the requirements of the CRA. You may be thinking of sexual orientation discrimination. Sexual orientation is not a protected category under Title VII. There is currently legislation pending in Congress that may change this.

Re: Salvation Army, the issue involved only religious discrimination - that doesn't mean that gender or racial or other prohibited discrimination is legally permissable:

"Lown v. Salvation Army: a group of current and former Salvation Army employees sued the Salvation Army and New York City and State officials, claiming that because the Salvation Army contracts with the City to provide a variety of services, including adoption, foster care, hospice care, and many other social services, the Salvation Army could no longer use religious criteria in its hiring and staffing decisions. Section 702 of Title VII protects the independence and autonomy of religious organizations by exempting them from the prohibition against discrimination in employment on the basis of religion. The plaintiffs, however, argued that it would violate the Establishment Clause for the Salvation Army to invoke this provision when contracting with the government. The Civil Rights Division filed a brief arguing that so long as the services being provided under the contract were secular in nature, the Salvation Army did not lose its right to define and preserve its character and identity as a religious organization through its personnel practices. The court agreed on September 30, 2005, and ruled in favor of the Salvation Army and the other defendants."

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/religdisc/ff_employment.html

[riderinthestorm]

45. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I don't even pretend to be an authority on this so I defer to your information. I was just extrapolating that the BSA and Salvation Army orgs were allowed to discriminate (in general, not specifically as regards to sexual orientation and the BSA for example).

I wonder what will follow now.

Peace!

[LisaM]

3. Wow! they don't deserve to be able to get any refs after this

And I hope their opponents take a clear look at even playing at this school (it was clearly an issue with the football team before).

It's tough on the kids, but they need to realize that if their parents choose to put them in a school with this lack of values, there will be societal consequences. Society CAN NOT condone this behavior.

[Drifter]

16. Indeed ...

If I were another Ref in the game, I would have walked out also.

What a terrible thing to teach the kids.

Cheers
Drifter

[zanne]

4. I thought this was in Afghanistan or Iraq! nt

[zanne]

5. Religious schools have it made.

They don't have to have as many days of school as public schools, they can openly practice discrimination and break other rules that public schools can't, they can underpay their teachers and they're tax exempt. What a racket.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Yes they do have to have just as many days

In my state, that is the only state reg religious schools have to abide by. That and the length of the day.

[Thothmes]

34. also

at least in the catholic system they seem to be a cut above the public school system in their educational outcomes. JMO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Well since it is perfectly legal for them to be exclusive about who they admit,

of course they have better outcomes. Public schools have to admit every kid who walks in the door. They don't get to pick and choose their kids like Catholic schools do.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Shame on the official who stayed and officiated

This school ought to be disallowed from any competition with other schools until they become part of this century! And I'd love to see the state pull their academic status! Degrees from this school shouldn't count from this point forward!

This is stuff you expect from those "Islamo-Facist" madras schools and countries! :sarcasm: Someone call up Rick Santorum - maybe he'd like to send his home-schooled kids to this school.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Response from one official

The school needed Shockey to stay and referee another game. Reluctantly, Shockey agreed to do so — until he found out what the emergency was.

In a show of solidarity, Shockey and Putthoff walked off the court with Campbell. “I said, There's no way I'm staying,' " Shockey said. "I kept going, 'Wow. Wow.' “I was so disgusted.”

Shockey and others said the game was played after a referee from an earlier game and the school’s athletic director agreed to officiate.

[Blue_Tires]

48. a man of honor.....

[LiberalFighter]

13. Kansas State High School Activities Association

Gary Musselman, the executive director of the Kansas State High School Activities Association, said St. Mary’s is not a full member of the association but is on the association’s list of approved schools. Full members can compete against schools on the approved list without fear of losing their membership status, Musselman said.

/snip/

The association will re-evaluate St. Mary’s position on the approved list.

[crim son]

15. My question: why was she surprised?

There are many ways to interpret the Good Book, but the tendency has been to use it as proof that women are men's inferiors, homosexuality is a sin punishable by death, and that wielding a sword is an admirable way to spread the Word of God. As long as this tendency remains, you'd better believe that you or yours will at some time become subject to the prejudices. This is why I left the Church. Not God. The Church.

[lukasahero]

23. Because it's 2008 and MOST people, religious or otherwise, have evolved

Just a thought.

[crim son]

25. "Otherwise," perhaps.

"Religious," not in my experience. These people have learned to hate the sin, not the sinner, but when it gets right down to it the effect is almost the same.

[TrogL]

31. Not the authoritarians

[HuffleClaw]

17. meep

"The school is owned and operated by the Society of St. Pius X, a group founded in 1970 in response to reforms that the Roman Catholic Church initiated with the Second Vatican Council. The group follows pre-Vatican II practices, such as the Latin Mass. Pope John Paul II excommunicated the society’s world leader, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, in the late 1980s. Lefebvre died in 1991,"


i cannot imagine what sort of things they are teaching the children who attend this 'school'. brrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Iris]

20. "That would be putting a woman in a position of authority over boys,"

and we can't have that. No way.

[VotesForWomen]

21. and yet there are people on this board who vehemently deny that sexism even exists in america. i use

used to work with a guy who would not 'let' his wife work because she might be put in a position of authority over men. i commend the other male refs for walking off in solidarity with her. those are real men.

[RamboLiberal]

27. You'll like this refs reply in the comments section

I officiated the two games prior to the games in question. I was approached and told there was an emergency with one of the officials. When I realized that "emergency" was that she was a Woman...... I walked out with Michelle & Darin.

I served on Active Duty in the Army for eleven years until I suffered a Severe Neck Injury during training In a Combat Zone. I have led, in a Combat Zone, some of the finest women this nation has produced and I have also been LED, in a Combat Zone, by some of strongest women this nation has to offer.

I also have two daughters at home who I apologized to when I got home because their DADDY worked for an employer who believes a woman's place is where the man tells her to be. Which is NOT WHAT I STAND FOR!

St Marys Academy refused to let a woman referee a boy's basketball game for NO REASON other than she is a woman. When does religious freedom OVERRIDE a woman'ability to WORK.

I was so disgusted by the money they paid me that I gave the waitress at "Froggy's Place" in St Marys a $41 tip (my game fees minus lunch) to this young lady who was working hard on a saturday afternoon to better her life....... I told her it was from St Marys academy.

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/021008/pre_245553740.shtml

But then there was a knuckle-dragger below him that thought it was perfectly fine.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. I am embarrassed as a Kansan

and as the daughter of a past president of the KC Officials Assn and the sister of a current official.

Just when we think Kansas is finally ready to join the 21st century, something like this happens. :cry:

[Karenina]

28. Would that they ALL had...

[knitter4democracy]

22. I can't imagine this happening in the Catholic schools I taught in.

Both of them had women principals. There's no way they'd put up with this kind of crap.

What kind of school is this? Under which jurisdiction? It's not under one of the more liberal groups, that's for sure.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. It is a school that has been there for over 100 years

My grandmother who was born in 1898 grew up in this town. The school was a Catholic boarding school and had a great reputation for many generations. Then sometime in the last 10 years or so, it was taken over by a group of Latin Mass Catholics. I am not positive but I believe this is the same sect of Catholicism that Sam Brownback belongs to.

These Catholics are crazy. We have a sect of them here in KC. They believe in large families and many of them are homeschoolers. My grandmother who was as liberal as good Catholic could be in her day, would be horrified to see what has happened to the school she loved.

[Iris]

26. The article said it was the Society of St Pius the X, which was formed as a reaction

to Vatican II. Still, it seems to fly in the face of even pre-Vatican II Catholic schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Yes that is the group in this area that has Latin masses

and some other very conservative policies.

[Iris]

35. ok, I see.

I'm slowly putting it together!

Seems like there are quite a few hyper-conservative Catholic groups around these days.

[knitter4democracy]

37. Ah. I get it now. They tried to take over the girls school I first taught in.

Opus Dei, actually, but they're pretty similar in practice, it sounds like. There was a battle over the religion department, and the school won. They backed off, but then they got one of their own hired (Sister didn't know he was in Opus Dei). He started causing all kinds of crap, and then a parent who was a mole in that group told Sister she'd seen him at meetings, and when Sister confronted him with it, he admitted everything. He was fired. Sister wasn't about to let those people control her school. It was a constant battle, though, since they started in with little things and kept chipping away.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Sam Brownback is in Opus Dei.

Need I say more? lol

I teach with a lady whose sister is a teacher in a Catholic school in Florida. She said the ultra conservatives there are trying to take over her school. Sounds like what you described.

[knitter4democracy]

49. It's scary, really.

The principals have to be on constant alert, and when parents form a group against the principal or get a few of their own on the board, it can be really hard to stand up to them. You really don't want them taking over, though. They're nuts.