The thing about Nader...

[judy]

I was reading P.M Carpenter on Buzzflash "In Defense of Nader and the shame of Progressive Hypocrisy".
"Ralph Nader, however, who openly and stridently opposed the violation of this most fundamental precept, is to be met and countered with fear and fury."

snip
"The colossal, back-flipping hypocrisy of it all is not only stunning, it's sadly reminiscent of the very crowd -- the right-wing lunatic fringe -- that so many of these same progressives have smugly ridiculed for decades, and for the same reason."

OK. Of course I don't like being called a hypocrite. But it is true, I don't like Nader, and I don't like it that he is running for president. But there are reasons for that.

I am old enough to have admired Nader in his heyday, as a consumer's advocate against corporate greed. But I am also a resident of California, and as such, I resent the deafening silence that came from Nader when California was being subjected to a fake power crisis for the benefit of Enron, Dynegy and Co, and for the amusement of Bush/Cheney...
I thought that was his moment, and he missed it. I think (and, while I favor Obama over Hillary, I am really a Kucinich supporter) that he is the true "all talk and no substance" candidate, and this is why I don't like him.

So there. Call me a hypocrite all you want, and I'll be free to wonder over and over again what makes Ralph run, since he never does anything between elections except whine to people like Amy Goodman about how he is a victim of the Democrats. Get off your behind and do something every now and then Ralph, take on some project, come out and say something at the right time, take some risks, and we will take you seriously.

[liberal N proud]

1. He ran in 2000 and now again in 2008

Why did he not run in 2004? Anyone asking that question in regards to his motive today?

[iamthebandfanman]

2. actually i think he did ?

maybe im wrong on that.

[zbdent]

3. Nade(R) did run in 2004

and was minimally noticed ... I wonder why the Repukes didn't rush out and vote for him then ...

[Demagitator]

5. No swing states were in jeopardy n/t

[Luminous Animal]

4. Actually, he was fighting deregulation from the get go.

Before the fake crisis, during, and tried to reform the regulation of the industry afterwards. It's the usual and heartbreaking lament... if you don't hear it in the corporate news, did it really happen?

Warning that deregulation would be a disaster.

http://www.citizen.org/cmep/energy_enviro_nuclear/electricity/deregulation/articles.cfm?ID=4169
September 13, 1999
Statement of Ralph Nader on Energy Deregulation and the Impact on the Latino Community before the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute's 1999 Issues Forum

(This is a snip from an article that tried to make the case that Nader was wrong... but, of course he was right.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/27830.html
Phony Deregulation

Adrian Moore | November 2000 Print Edition


Ralph Nader recently characterized San Diego as the "canary in the coal mine" of electricity deregulation, arguing that the state essentially sold out the public’s right to a reliable supply of electricity when it tried to open the door to competition. He misplaced the blame. San Diego’s skyrocketing electricity rates are the result of political horse-trading and compromise, not free markets.

Trying to clean up the mess.

http://www.citizenworks.org/admin/press/press_release.php
NADER, CITIZEN ADVOCATES SAY
ENRON/ANDERSEN SCANDALS HIGHLIGHT NEED FOR BASIC REFORMS,
CALL FOR A CITIZENS REFORM AGENDA

Washington, D.C. --- Today Ralph Nader and leading citizen advocates and scholars, called for a Citizens Reform Agenda to address the Enron/Arthur Andersen scandals. The agenda proposes reforms for the accounting industry, the banking and lending industry, pensions, campaign financing, securities reform, and energy deregulation.

[judy]

13. Ah, how I wish these would convince me...

But California deregulation happened long before 1999, during the governorship of Pete Wilson, and Nader was nowhere to be seen then...The first 2 statements were part of his campaign for President in 2000.
The third one is interesting. However it came after the scandals. When the energy crisis was in full swing, I felt I was screaming in the dark saying that it was all a scam. I would look up on the Internet the Cal ISO figures showing that some plants closed down for no reason in certain areas, it was kind of obvious.

What I would like Nader to do, is speak up BEFORE the scandals break in the main stream...not after.
And when I talk about taking risks, I think about Dennis Kucinich, who does put his position in Congress on the line to speak about "forbidden" topics.

[Luminous Animal]

14. Deregulation started in 1998

Nader's organization, CalPirg lobbied against deregulation in 1996. Deregulation passed in the California legislature in 1996 but did not go into effect until 1998.

http://www.local.org/californ.html


In 1998, both he and Public Citizen worked to pass proposition 9, which, if enacted, would have rolled back many of the excesses of deregulation.

http://www.mcgeorge.edu/x1392.xml

http://www.publiccitizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=919

[judy]

25. Ah, thanks Luminous!

This helps a lot...I did not realize CalPirg was Nader's organization. I used to pass around petitions for them...but that was a long time ago...
:)

[Truth2Tell]

6. Are you sure

Nader ignored the CA energy crisis? Or did the sources you use for news and information simply ignore him? Maybe you should double check that. :) And are you sure he isn't "taking on projects," or "taking risks?" Or have you just not heard about it via your sources of information?

[TahitiNut]

11. If a tree falls in the forest and the media doesn't report it ...

... blame the tree for not making a noise. (Unless you're a "tree-hugger" - then blame the media.)

Nader is DU's favorite scapegoat. (It's easier than taking responsibility.) :shrug:

"We the People"??? Heaven forbid!! It's THEM, not us, to blame!

[riverdale]

7. Why don't you get off your behind and learn something about Nader

Nader has done a lot between elections. He has probably done more for the country than any private citizen in American history. Check out his website, his books, and his organizations that work with activists. You didn't bother to do any research. Another topic repeating the senseless hatred of Nader circulating on this web site serves no purpose.

[judy]

12. Sorry, I forgot to mention...

...that I have listened to him many times on "Democracy Now", and I am familiar with his web site and his books. I have always thought a third party candidate was a good idea. But again, Nader seems to stick to blogging, making statements from the sidelines, and running for president every four years.
My behind is always willing to research :)
Nader has been a great disappointment to me, and so far I haven't seen or heard anything that would make me think oherwise.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. You ain't no hypocrite. I was there back...

in the 60's and haven't changed my mind much about things.

Except for the contempt I have for much of the "Left." Nader typifies the publicity hungry wannabe who talks the talk but will never actually get anything done. Too many of those old leftists from back then have let themselves be marginalized and just whine about how the power players are all the same. Hardly any of them actually tried to get into the flow of power themselves, of course, since it's so much easier to whine about those big, nasty people screwing things up.

Nader had his Raiders, his PIRGs and other organizations, but what did they actually do? Aside from fundraising and a small local victory here and there where is the legacy? Where is the great legislation or social movement that he is responsible for?

Run for President? Tilting at windmills at least starts with the thought that one can beat a windmill, demented as that may be. Running for President four times, with almost no support, is the simply a way to get publicity without actually having to accomplish anything.

If he believed in the Green Party, he could have worked in the intervening years to expand it, instead of waiting for a chance to exploit it and then dump it when it had no further use.

Sponsoring House and Senate candidates? Backing green Governors? Getting into school board elections to oust the creationists? No way would he or the other leftists of his ilk ever get their hands dirty with such demeaning work. Much better to run a losing Presidential campaign and be a martyr to the "corporatists" once again.

Oh, and he did "fight" Enron. Made a few speeches at fundraisers is what he did. Gotta keep up the image of a fire-breathing reformer.

[Demagitator]

9. Excellent points....

In all my research of liberal politics; especially protest politics -- in the 60s and 70s; Nader was a nobody. Is that the reason why the MSM made him into a liberal hero?

[TreasonousBastard]

10. I've heard all sorts of theories about why he's always around...

but I think the big thing is that he is very, very, good at getting publicity. He's gotta have every editorial desk in the country on speed dial.

The Donald Trump of politics-- no substance, but there's always an audience for whatever crap he spews today.

[EFerrari]

15. Have you ever heard of the consumers right movement?

"The consumer advocate went on to create an organization of energetic young lawyers and researchers (often called "Nader's Raiders") who produced systematic exposés of industrial hazards, pollution, unsafe products, and governmental neglect of consumer safety laws. Nader is widely recognized as the founder of the consumers' rights movement. He played a key role in the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the Freedom of Information Act and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. He has continued to work for consumer safety and for the reform of the political system through his group Public Citizen."

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/nad0bio-1

I'd say that is a legacy anyone can be proud of. And, btw, Nader didn't "dump" the Green Party. The party chose a different ticket.

/typo

[RFKJrNews]

16. Nader is running because no else else will

...go to bat for independents and progressives who need a candidate.


http://rfkin2008.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/is-nader-nuts-or-the-bravest-man-in-america/

[EFerrari]

17. Obama seems to appeal to some independents. Too bad

he doesn't invite Ralph to consult for his campaign.

You'd think the Democrats would push for campaign finance reform if only to keep Ralph from running again in 2012. :)

[Virginia Dare]

19. That's why I don't understand why Nader is using this tired old tactic again..

he accomplished nothing before but to piss quite a few liberals off. I just wonder why he thinks it will be any different this time.

[EFerrari]

22. I don't think he's interested in the approval of the Democratic Party.

Cynthia McKinney is also running this year.

Imho, it won't matter on election day because the turnout will be overwhelming. We should be much more worried about voter disenfranchisement and vote caging. Btw, I'm writing up a proposal for Dr. Dean that suggests a strategy to deal with those things. Wish me luck. :)

[Virginia Dare]

23. I realize that he's not looking for our approval..

I'm just wondering what he hopes to accomplish, since it doesn't seem like he accomplished much of anything the last time, except, arguably, made things worse.

GOOD LUCK!!!...:toast:

[EFerrari]

24. Once you are in the "public eye" there is a part of it that you come to enjoy.

There is that element -- for anyone, probably. That's just human?

It is also the case that Ralph brings up issues that "mainstream" candidates can't or won't. I think that's probably a good idea. He's not going to split the vote this year.

The Democratic candidate will be fine unless we go to sleep at the wheel and let them steal it. It would be a good thing if starting this summer, we seriously attended to election protection. That's at least as important as phone banking or walking for our candidate, imho.

[Virginia Dare]

20. Maybe there's a reason for that...

because they know it wouldn't accomplish anything constructive.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Ralph Succumbed To Stockhold Syndrome

"Back in the day", Nader was viewed as a "crackpot" and "radical" by the media. He was demonized and marginalized...which for many of us was his charm. He became the anti-corporate and for many years Ralph played that role well...being a voice in the woods on many consumer issues and relishing his ability to piss off the corporate media as a badge of honor.

That changed in the 90's...Ralph's phone started to ring from bookers from the new cable networks, big money could be made on the college campus lecture circuit and he thought he could "re-tool" his message using a bigger stage...in essence he became part of the establishment that he once fought against.

Last Sunday shows you how full circle Ralphie has now come. He was booked to play the "Broder" game Russert loves to play...and Ralph gets full hour of prime network time that is just too good to resist. The opium of the media has become Ralph's new ideal...using his unique ability to get on television that props up his own "value" that means more TV gigs and college speaking tours and book deals.

Alas, like many other icons my generation that got too close to the flame of fame, Ralph now is addicted to it.

[Virginia Dare]

21. It seems like everytime I see him..

he's either tooting his own horn and/or shilling his book. Maybe I'm just bitter and biased now though.

[depakid]

26. "Deafening silence? WTF? Does everyone on this thread have amnesia?

Public Citizen was one of the progressive groups out there making major noise (to whoever would listen) about EXACTLY what would happen if the Democrats in the California legislature railroaded through the deregulation scheme, -with very few public hearings.

That's right- California Democrats overwhelmingly joined with the far right and the corporatists to bring you that fiasco, even though they were forewarned- and even though any rational person with a cursery knowledge of economics and history could (and would) have seen it coming. Yes (just like the subprime mortgage crisis) it really was that obvious.

Moreover, Public Citizen has been in the trenches on these issues ever since.

You can slam Nader for a lot of things, but please- don't re-write history on this one.

[judy]

27. OK, depakid!

Sounds like I was wrong, and I stand corrected. I am not defending the Democrats, far from it. I am just nervous that McCain will be the next president...that's all.
What's a Kucinich supporter to do?!