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"How Old Is Too Old?" Someone else who thinks McCain is too old to be President

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 11:59 PM
Original message
"How Old Is Too Old?" Someone else who thinks McCain is too old to be President
THE LAST WORD
Anna Quindlen
How Old Is Too Old?

Race, gender—they're both up for grabs in this presidential election. It's age that has become the new taboo in a vitality culture.
Feb 4, 2008 Issue

Here's my unscientific theory about the presidency: it ages a person in dog years. Each year in office is roughly equivalent to seven years in the life of an ordinary citizen. I base this on before-and-after photographs of the occupants of the Oval Office, who frequently look as though they've spent their time in captivity, being beaten with sticks. Which may help explain why 71-year-old John McCain, who actually has been beaten in captivity, may think that the fact that he would be the oldest person ever to enter the job is immaterial. In this, alas, he is mistaken.

~snip~

But the senator is not your average man of his age. He takes stairs slowly and cannot lift his arms to comb his hair. One reason few people want to address his age, or his infirmity, is the valor of his Vietnam service. It's humbling to consider that he broke both arms and a leg when his fighter jet was shot down, then suffered fractured shoulders and broken ribs when he was tortured during five and a half years as a POW. You can tell he thinks it should be humbling, too: when a boy at one event asked him respectfully if he was too old for the job, he responded with his trademark acerbic humor, "Thanks for the question, you little jerk."

~snip~

Please, please—don't feel the need to let me know that you're 82, swim every morning and finish the New York Times crossword, in ink, even on Saturday. I'm aware that there are women and men who perform brilliantly at arduous jobs far past the time the rest of us would be phoning it in or tuning it out. But the job McCain seeks is like no other, in its demands and its import. It's significant that while the old mandatory retirement age of 65 has been largely junked, there are still age limits for jobs like airline pilot or police officer, the kinds of jobs that require some of the same skills as the presidency—unwavering mental acuity and physical energy.

Political operatives say that his age makes McCain's choice of a running mate particularly critical. But if you enter the process stressing a hedge against mortality or incapacity, shouldn't that suggest something about suitability for the job in the first place? The senator's pursuit of the presidency reminds me a bit of those women who decide to have a baby in their late 50s. The impulse is understandable, the goal possible. But, looking at all the facts, and the actuarial tables, is it really sensible?

Please, before you comment, read the entire column at this link: http://www.newsweek.com/id/105554


You can call 'Ageism' and "Bigotry" if you like, but this matters. You can, and probably should, praise his military service and laud him for his incredibly honorable performance while captive in North Viet Nam. But the fact is, today, in 2008, he could well be unfit to be president for little more than his age and the impact of the totality of his life.

I think Ms. Quindlen makes the case much better than I attempted with humor some thought to be in poor taste in another thread. That caused the essential point to be overlooked or parsed out for the sake of making silly arguments.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. McCain could be 30, he could be 90, the problem is that he is FUCKING NUTS
I know Hillary likes him, I don't.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I actually think he's **increasingly** fucking nuts .........
..... I've followed him for years. He was always a little shady and always cultivated that maverick thing, but he was never just plain nuts before a year or three ago.

He's really gotten batty the last few years.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Hehe, just wait, now that Huckabee is gone he's
really going to start saying some hilarious shit. Well, you know, hilarious in that "this guy is scaring the crap out of me" way.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Not only nuts but totally corrupt.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. You said it! It's not his age, but his mental health - crazy warmongering wacko!
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tachyon Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, I am 6 years his junior and in pretty good health generally and I do NOT think I'm
in "good enough" shape to be President (even if I wanted to...and it's not something I'd even want for ANY amount of money)

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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. welcome to du
:party: :crazy: :hi:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Welcome, tachyon. nt
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. McLame is Bush 3rd, in terms of craziness, unpredictability
Retire that nag to the glue factory, or leave him in the Senate.
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mth44sc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm not one to pick on age
but when I see someone who looks and sounds like an tired ol' fart - I do wonder if this one will even hear the phone ringing at 3:00 AM.

(even if Hillary thinks he's got it going on...)
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm sorry that late in life people cannot enjoy.
Now it's work till you die.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. You got that right
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. His age has nothing to do with the reason why he'd be a horrible president n/t
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. In your view, perhaps ......
..... but he would be a poor choice even if he were as liberal as Mario Cuomo.

In my dreams, Cuomo would be our candidate. But since he isn't running his age doesn't matter. But if he were, I'd be as cautious about him as anyone. What is his health? Is he showing any signs of dementia. I see little, if any, need to ask that of a younger person, but I sure as hell want to know it about someone older.

I think Ms. Quindlen makes that point far better than me in her article. I assume you've read it and not just my excerpt.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well, taking that approach would be wrong, IMO...
It smells of age discrimination and I don't like it.

We have a far better chance of attacking McCain's bush-supporting policies than we are when it comes to his age. It wouldn't do a damn bit of good anyway since previous old presidents got in with little being said about their age.

If this was a Dem who was 70 years old I doubt DU would make a fuss. We have a tendency to go after things like this as a matter of convenience.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'm not saying his age is the only reason to attack him .....
It is but one reason of many.

But again, the article says it better than me. As she points out, it is today's ultimate taboo to discuss. It ought not be.

I actually don't care what DU makes a fuss about. I care that it is an issue and no one will talk about it realistically. We can't be afraid to talk about these things.

No one is making a case than any 71 years ought not be president. The case to be made is that this particular 71 year old, who is clearly not in good health and appears to have growing problems with his health related to his life and his age perhaps ought not be president.

That's not age discrimination.

Is having people who are over a certain age take a driving test to new their license age discrimination? This link shows the laws in various states. Many are tied to age, specifically, and nothing else.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0457.htm
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. We're talking about a job...not a driver's license...
two different things.

His age should not be attacked at all. Besides, if by some miracle McCain does win the WH, dies, has a stroke or something, the VP steps in his place.

Going after his age is pointless and a waste of time, IMO. His 'four more years of bush' agenda should be at the top of everyone's list since it will do the most in insuring he does NOT win the WH.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Reasons I am concerned
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 05:57 AM by troubleinwinter
I have worked as an advocate for elders, and an important part of the battle is fighting ageism. I have a great many friends over 70, and several in their 90s.

However, in this case we ARE "talking about a job... not a driver's license." A job that requires a great deal of mental acumen. Foreign policy, domestic issues, war, killing, dying.

You cite that if he had "a stroke or something, the VP steps in his place." A stroke would be quite evident and obvious, should it cause disability. The problem is that occurrences of dementia (An acquired loss of cognitive function that may affect language, attention, memory, personality and abstract reasoning... The progressive loss of mental facilities including short- and long-term memory... characterized by mental disorientation and impaired judgment; it typically has an adverse effect on emotions, and learning capabilities) becomes more common as age progresses: "1% of those aged 60-65, 6% of those aged 75-79, and 45% of those aged 95 or older suffer from the syndrome".

Should a president develop symptoms of dementia over time, what are the processes for removing him from office? How long would it take, while he may be (mis)performing his duties?

To a degree, it is EXACTLY his time as a POW that concerns me. His physical injuries to his legs, arms, ribs, shoulders are much cited. Can it be assumed that his head was carefully guarded from beatings/injury?

What effect might malnutrition for 5-1/2 years have had on his brain, that may evidence in older years?

Husb2Sparkly points out that he seems increasingly nuts in the last few years (he is my senator).

WHO would make the decision to remove him from office if need be? How will it be done? How long will it take? What sort of battles will it take? What kind of damage and bad decisions could a president make in the meantime? I think our experience with the current president gives us a lesson.

As much as I have worked against ageism, there are some worrisome statistics, McCain's life history and possible current symptoms that reasonably cause concern in regard to a job that carries much more risk for the country and the world than a driver's license.



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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thanks! Beyond underscoring Quindlen's and my view, you point out another HUGE problem .......
.... how do you get a person like that out of office?

St. Ronald's minions closed ranks and protected him. Nancy held his hand (literally) as he 'did his job'. Yet we find out after the fact that he was out of it most of the time. Nobody pushed to have him removed and instead allowed his camp followers and hangers on to run the show.

FDR had a disability, but that didn't stop him from doing a good job. Wilson had a disability and was, in fact, unable to do his job; his wife did it for him. The citizens should have known that at the time.

We have no precedent for removing a president for health reasons. A debilitated McCain would likely stay in office.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Age Discrimination...??? OK..so how about having to be 35 before you are
eligible to be president...I tell you, I would far rather have a 34 yr old...than a 71 yr old, ANY 71 yr old. for president...and I am 67, so I have an idea of what I speak....no way, no how...if that IS age discrimination...so be it...There comes a time, when everyone should recognize their abilities and accept them...that's called being an adult and responsible...Age IS most definitely a factor when it comes to McCain, or any person over retirement age, that thinks they want to be president...AND it becomes a concern for the rest of us too....I have to question who, what person, in their right mind, would want to be president of this country, with all that entails, once they have reached the age of 70 or passed it...?????The fact that any one runs for the office at that age, makes questioning their motives a must....Personally, I prefer to see my president alive and alert, and able to function w/o someone having to help him move around, and I don't want to see him taking a snooze behind the podium either...geeeze!!...wb
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. But age discrimination is not a lawful reason to throw him under the bus, how bout his fucking tie?
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tachyon Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. There is nothing wrong with his tie
that some serious tightening wouldnt fix.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Snort. Maybe you should email him. He's into long periods of war, maybe he could fight his own
face while he gives it a good yank. No pun intended. I meant the tie.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. There is no law against questioning his physical suitability for the office of president.
He's a pilot. Would you fly with him tomorrow?
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Again...not the same thing at all. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Now if I wouldn't walk across the street with that freak'n warmongering piece of crap, why would I
fly in a plane with him, but has nothing to do with how old he is. LOL
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. He needs a tie that says "My Friends" in flashing red neon
Could save him a lot of time.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. But surely you don't mean to say that
his age is a taboo subject, not fit for even due consideration? Because that's what I am getting from your other posts in this thread.
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. If he does
two terms, he'll be eighty when he leaves office. He's a cancer survivor. And the long lasting results of his captivity sap his strength. His health is a very legitimate issue. And, by extension, so is his running mate. Good chance that he'll become the NEXT prez.
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Angleae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
23. But it makes his VP candidate so much more important
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. McCain is the sacrificial lamb for the next election, it's that simple
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 01:44 AM by DainBramaged
The RNC realizes it is beaten, the "surge" as you may put it, is in our favor, youth is speaking, they can't raise the cash, their base is disenchanted with what Booshe has done to the country, and everyone is tired of war and how broken our military is. They will lose nearly 30 seats in the House and possibly two in the Senate, and that does not bode well for the current group of "old" men running the Right wing in Congress.

They'll watch Obama or Clinton take back the White House and hope to regroup for 2012. But they will do their best to fuck us over until then.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
28. Remember how Nancy Reagan used to stand just behind her
husband and give him prompts? Later we learned it was early Alzheimer's. Age matters for some positions and having the ability to completely annihilate the world ought to be one of them.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. If McCain wins this election I think he will serve 1 term only
I think even he realizes he can't handle 8 years of this job, one of the hardest on earth. Excpet for Shrub of course but when you put no effort in its a bit easier. I really think for many people his health age and kookiness will play a factor and he will not get elected unless the Dems let the superdelegates decide the nominee.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. I think Anna Quindlen is right about the Presidency aging a person.
Hell, if you can stomach it, look at pictures of Bush now and before he became President. He looks at least 20 years older. Same thing with Carter and Bill Clinton. They perceptibly significantly aged while in office, judging from their before and after pictures.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Why doesn't Cheney look older?
Oh, I forgot, the blood of virgins and puppy dogs.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
36. age and health should be subject to scrutiny, it's the fucking president of the US
otherwise you're voting for the vice.....maybe that's the plan?
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
37. Time for another affair rumor
McCain's on the phone to the NYT now, disguising his voice.
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