Off to Work, Soccer Mom

[Catch22Dem]

Apparently this show, which gives stay at home moms a chance to see what the career of their dreams would be like has pissed off the fundie "female submission to male" crowd off.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/120362

This family is so sweet it makes your teeth ache. But as soon as the show aired, TLC's online message boards were jammed with comments from women outraged that Adrian would choose a career over being a stay-at-home mom (SAHM in parent lingo). The posts said the premise of the show is "sick" and Adrian is "selfish." One mom wrote, "Let's show the other side of the story … how the kids' world is going to be turned upside down by having to go to day care." Another woman goes even further: "Unless you're about to starve there is no reason for you to be at work. If you didn't want to raise your children, you should not have had them. It's child abandonment."

Adrian's wish to fill a missing creative void raised even more hackles: "Could any more feminist crap be shoved down our throats? The idea that you need a career to be complete? How about feeling complete by parenting your kids the right way?" And even if you agree with the mothers who support Adrian's choice to offer her daughters a career role model, you can see why some SAHMs might be a little miffed by a program that opens with a song whose lyrics include "time to lose the minivan…"

[Iris]

1. Yes, so many kids are ruined, simply ruined by being cared for by someone other than their mother!

:sarcasm:

[margotb822]

61. I met my best friend at day care

and I'm going to be the maid of honor in her wedding this summer, 23 years later. I don't consider my life ruined in the least. I can't wait to send my kids to daycare so that they can meet life long friends and learn social skills!

These people don't want to be judged, but look at the judgement they cast.

[Iris]

69. great story!

Thanks for sharing! Have fun at the wedding! :party:

[Darth_Kitten]

72. Yes, and who is almost never their daddy as well!!!

:) But, he is the one who should work. Never Mommy, that's selfish. Why did she have kids to begin with? :sarcasm:

[Berry Cool]

2. I sure hope all those fundies are prepared for what might happen

if their sole source of support for themselves and their children dies...or leaves them for someone else...or becomes disabled and can't work...or turns out to be an abuser or an alcoholic...or just plain loses his job or has to take a pay cut.

And heaven forbid any of them should get a little bored at home, or find the family in need of extra money, and head out to the workplace trying to find a job, after all those years out of the work force. It might not be as easy as it might seem.

[Catch22Dem]

3. That's crazy talk...gawd will provide for them!

Obviously!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

28. My wife stays at home

and should I die she will get enough money (via insurance) so she will not have to work for at least a decade (longer if she lives small). Still we are looking around for her to lay the groundwork for a career should something happen to me.

[MissB]

33. Yeah, it is always good to have a backup plan.

I left my career when my two were wee ones. I'm just now returning. I've been fortunate to pick up my old job/career in pretty much the same spot I left, and for more money.

I'm not returning because I absolutely need to - but I've made the transition from SAHM to house-wife and frankly, I'm not interested in being a house-wife. My kids are gone from 8 am until at least 5 pm (afterschool classes, sports and playdates) nearly every day. Volunteering has been great for the past few years, but I'm freakin' bored. I've been taking on more and more volunteer work, until I'm "working" nearly 40 hours/week at volunteer stuff. I've hit that point where everything is too easy- no more challenges really exist unless I re-enter my career.

Dh is also heavily insured, and I could also get by on just the Social Security survivors benefits. However, I do worry about things like health insurance. The job I'm starting soon provides better health benefits than dh's company, and if something happens to him then that is one less thing I have to worry about.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

29. Dupe: Delete

Dupe

[Taverner]

4. Fucking fundies

I'm sorry, the glorification of the "Stay At Home Mom" that these people hold makes me sick

And I will open myself up for attack here, but I do think kids should see their mom work. It's good for them.

[Iris]

6. Not only that, but some kids would be better off not being stuck at home with zealot mother.

[kimmylavin]

12. Or...

Be like my mom.

I love her, I really do, but she never lost an opportunity to tell us about what she had given up to stay at home and raise us.

Personally, I wish she'd gone to work - she would have been great at it!
But she was on the cusp of the women's movement, and she just happened to get the brunt of the "women should stay at home" force...

[Iris]

14. another good point.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

31. The vilification of the "Stay At Home Mom" is just as bad...

[Taverner]

35. True, but there should be no shame in working

A working mom is not letting her family down, despite what the religiously insane say

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. I dont disagree but I see many 'progressive' people

crap all over a womans decision to stay home with kids as being indicative of her being weak/stupid/lazy..

[Zookeeper]

37. That's absolutely true.

I intended to return to work six weeks after my first child was born. Once I held him in my arms, there was no way I was going to hand him over to a stranger (we don't have family here). Financially, it was a struggle for years, living on one income, but I have no regrets.

Parents should be able to make the choice that best suits them and their family, without being judged by busybodies on either side of the political spectrum.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

46. And the funny thing is

*any woman* who has been home with an adventuresome and needy toddler who is in the least bit honest can *totally* understand why some women don't want to stay at home. My wife calls my mother to commiserate and my mother totally understands.

My mother had us in two groups, 5 within seven years of getting married, for these kids she stayed home did scouts, football, the whole mom thing. Then when they were ages 6-14 she decided to go back to work and she started her nursing degree, she had my sister and then me over the next 2 years. Did night school, finished her nursing degree and started working nights until I was old enough for school then she cut over to days. <-- My mom is the uber-mom! as I was a major PITA as a kid and she still did all this..

While there are times I wish my mother had not worked over the summer (my other siblings used to go camping every two weeks during the summer) I don't begrudge her, in the least, for wanting out after 5 kids ;)

Recently my wife was Ill for nearly a year and in addition to my job I was watching the kids every second they were not in daycare... Wow, Ill never question who works harder and I let her know it by being 'the guy' on my days off when she can sleep, or read, or do whatever away from the kids until noon.. I never feel like I can do enough for her given all she does for us..

I think the hardest part for stay at home moms is not the effort or the lack of career, its not connecting to adults regularly every day the way one might if they had a job. By the time I'm home and the kids are down its late in the PM and we are both exhausted (think the end of shrek the 3rd). I recently convinced her to join a bowling league with out neighbor ( a young working woman ) so she will get a regular social cicile that I have no part of, that I think is iportant..

More power to ya!

[Zookeeper]

51. You sound like a great partner, Dadof2!

Good point about the isolation, too. I live in the state with the highest percentage of mothers who work outside of the home, and my experience as a SAHM would be very, very difficult for an extrovert. Luckily for me, I have a lot of interests and tend to be a bit asocial.

:hi: to you and yours!

[femrap]

75. Why can't the fundies let other

people live their lives? Why are they so vehement in demanding others live just as they say? I wonder what they think of women who don't want to be mothers????

I think those were burned at the stake...in fact, I'm sure!!

[RB TexLa]

5. Don't mothers have a responsibility to provide financially for their children?

The same as fathers.

[Zookeeper]

38. That's why life insurance is available. n/t

[Iris]

39. huh?

[RB TexLa]

49. I'm talking about while they are alive

[Zookeeper]

52. If the father is able and happy to provide financially for the family

why should a mother work outside the home, so the family can have more "stuff", rather than raise the children? If she wants to, or if he wants her to, fine. But, if not, why is she "supposed" to?

I'm questioning why you are questioning another family's choice.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

54. No..

Parents as a couple have a responsibility to provide for their kids only Dad working, only Mom working, Both working... the main thing is to provide and to plan for the worst...

[Hekate]

65. God forbid she applies for AFDC because there's no daddy in the picture. Then she MUST work...

...or be labeled a welfare queen.

Mothers just cannot win in this culture.

Hekate
:argh:

[MedleyMisty]

7. I like to call them Aunt Berthas

You know, like Uncle Tom?

[Warpy]

8. Oh, ferkrissakes, women can't win

They're selfish, driven bitches if they go out to work for a living and they're selfish, lazy bitches if they stay home. Their children are fucked up by going to daycare and their children are smothered if they stay home.

Forget it, sisters, once you have kids you will never do anything right again in your lives. Never mind that going out and getting a job isn't a choice for most of us. If you do it, you're cheating your children of your time, love and care. If you don't, you're cheating them of the better things in life and the ability to learn how to get along with others.

The tragedy is that the patriarchy has women hurling these accusations at each other, while nobody ever asks where the hell the fathers are during all of this.

[Catch22Dem]

9. I'm confused...is this directed at me?

her physician husband gets teary with joy: "I'm seeing Adrian get something that I have been unable to give her, which is completeness."

[Warpy]

10. Not partcularly, but at the quote you used.

I'm SO sick of this shit. I have friends who stayed home and friends who worked and their kids all turned out OK.

So whatever you do, the world will condemn you for it, but the kids will likely weather it just fine.

[Catch22Dem]

11. Which quote?

I don't get it. She had the full support of her family and these women are giving her shit for it. My point is, she should be able to choose her own path without being criticized for it.

[Berry Cool]

13. And my point is, EVERYONE deserves a choice.

It's not really fair for women to figure they can either opt to work or stay at home and let their husbands support them. Men should have an equal opportunity to choose. Men and women should work together to figure out how to do the wage earning and the child raising, rather than it being assumed that the man has no choice but to work, or that raising the children is primarily the woman's job and she's the one who has to abandon or cut down or interrupt a career for it.

[Iris]

15. and put herself in financial jeopardy

Really, I don't understand why that much martyrdom is required in today's society.

[gollygee]

17. It isn't "martyrdom" to stay home with your kids if you enjoy it

if it is martyrdom for any particular person, then that person should obviously continue working.

[Iris]

20. well, yes

thanks for clarifying my point.

[Warpy]

63. The martyrdom comes in when the hubby runs off with a

sweet young thing and leaves the wife and kids with nothing but a bunch of bills after he cleans out their savings account.

It happens.

That's the risk SAHMs are taking. The same thing can happen to working moms, but at least they already have a job and a work history. The abandoned SAHM is pretty much stuck, even if she had a career before she had the kids.

It's a sad fact that treating the production and training of the next bunch of citizens is still slave labor and the skills required for it are never recognized by the male work structure.

[Karenina]

70. Being a SAHM has many pitfalls in today's society.

I experienced many of them, including homelessness. Were mothers' work held in esteem, I'd have been awarded an "associates" degree of some sort. ;-) Suffice to say the child I was advised to institutionalize has earned his bachelor's. The "failure" of my career is, of course, my own very personal "fault."

[Warpy]

71. I always think women who make the choice to stay home

(assuming it's a choice) are some of the bravest women out there, because the "failure to hold a man" is so severely punished by this culture.

Still, if the kid makes it to 18 and is not in prison, you did your job. It sounds like you did more than your job!

Congratulations!

[conflictgirl]

58. There's little financial jeopardy if you were making a low income before kids.

It could be argued that on a lower income, you need the money even more, but daycare subsidies are few and far between (and constantly in danger of being cut) and if you're making $10/hr or less, you won't have much left after paying for childcare. There's no martyrdom involved, just simple math that leads some people to decide it isn't worth the little amount you'd have left.

[Iris]

67. ah! Well, then there's even MORE financial jeopardy.

Being one bad accident or unplanned event away from financial ruin.

Certainly it makes more sense to stay home if you can't make enough to pay for daycare, but consideration should be given to the years of experience you could be giving up that might have moved you out of the $10 an hour job at some point.

[conflictgirl]

77. But the thing is, a lot of those jobs DONT pay significantly more with experience

Seriously, look at the job market. Data entry clerks with 10 years of experience don't make twice as much as data entry clerks who are new on the job. Retail workers don't make significantly more with experience - even if you get promoted from regular sales associate to store manager, you're still not going to make a huge amount of money. I could go on with examples, but the truth of the matter is that in terms of sheer numbers of jobs available, the ones that have huge opportunities for advancement and wage increases are in the minority. Even as I'm discovering now, you can have a college degree and years of recent experience and there are still way more qualified people out there than good jobs for them. I've been a freelance writer and editor for the past 5 years while I was in school and am qualified for a staff writing and editing job; the last such job I applied for, there were more than 300 applicants from all over the country. 300 applicants for ONE job in a professional field. That could be used to argue the point that if you have one of those good jobs, giving it up may be foolish. But if you didn't have a good job like that in the first place, it's ridiculous to think that a data entry job (which was what I was doing before having kids) would have become a high-paying management job.

The idea that if you work hard, you'll make a good salary that increases substantially every year is quickly becoming a paradigm of the past.

[Echo In Light]

19. The "think of the children" mantra is an often used ruse/hiding mask

[Warpy]

22. Whenever anybody starts pontificating about what's best

for the kiddies, my bullshit meter pins.

[Iris]

41. as well it should.

[MissB]

34. You nailed it.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[knitter4democracy]

50. Can I get an amen! This post nails it!

I was just talking with Hubby about this last night.

He's a doctor, so to most people, especially MIL, he's the smart one. It doesn't matter that I had higher grades in college or that we had the same test scores and all. I'm the lesser one because I'm a SAHM. If I were really smart, I would've worked to get into law school or med school or something like that. On the other hand, I'm the one who has to be home, who has to get the kids to their lessons and camps and supplemental stuff for school and scouts, and anything that goes wrong with the kids is my fault. Sooooo . . . how was I supposed to go to med school again? If I'd gone and Hubby and I'd married, MIL and my dad would be mad that we'd put our kid in daycare.

No matter what any of us does, we're screwed.

[Warpy]

62. Remember "Mona Lisa Smile?"

The Julia Roberts character was so horribly disappointed that all the brilliant women were marrying and having children and being SAHMs. What the film neglected to say was that as soon as those kids were in the upper grades, a lot of those brilliant women DID go to law school or get post graduate degrees in other fields.

Personally, I find following the male model of college, career, and then marriage to be a harmful one. Our safest childbearing years are 18-26. Too many of us who tried to follow the male model found out our biological clock had run down while we weren't looking.

I know women who had the kids and then the career and women who had the career and then the kids. I know women who worked and women who stayed home. All the kids came out OK. There's no right way or wrong way to do it, and we've got to stop this defensive wrangling with each other about it.

As long as the kids lived through the experience and aren't in prison by the time they're 18, we did our jobs.

[knitter4democracy]

79. It is time for a new model.

Instead of saying that a person's most productive years for the company/whatever are when they're young, we need to see that productivity ebbs and flows and that many of the most productive people are older whose kids are grown and gone out of the house.

If my kids make it to 18, I'll be one happy mama. I swear young kids have a death wish. I can't even begin to count the times my kids have tried to kill themselves by doing something stupid. Grrr!

[Ellen Forradalom]

16. Those ladies doth protest too much

They are screaming loudly to cover up their own envy and fear.

[Echo In Light]

18. "...feminist crap be shoved down our throats?" ...Switch channels or turn off

It's called Freedom of Choice.

[Maine-ah]

21. not just a reply to the op, but everyone bashing SAHM

I chose to be a SAHM, certainly not a fundie. I would rather stay with my BB during her years b/f she has to go to school. Recently, I have had no choice but to go back to work at nights, and my husband is with her in the evenings.

My mother did the same thing. She was at home with us, until I (I am the youngest) went to school. Then she went back to work.

There is NOTHING WRONG with being a SAHM.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. I'm a SAHM, too, and my kids are in school now. I like being at home. Why is

that a crime? Feminism is all about the right to choose one's own destiny. I choose to be home. (Where I am supposed to be writing, but that's another story. LOL)

[BoneDaddy]

25. Thank you

much of this crowd has as much of an "either or attitude" that is as bad as the fundies. I am working two jobs so my sons can have their mother home with them because WE believe that having at least having a parent there means alot. It doesn't mean that we think less of people who choose to work or HAVE to put their children in day care or with extended family, it means this was our choice and it is working out wonderfully.

Don't let anyone tell you different. Being a SAHM is a difficult, maddening and frustrating job at times but my wife thanks me often because she gets to see much of the growth, successes and milestones that I miss and she is grateful to have that opportunity. As the boys age into their teenage years we have even talked about switching roles where I would work less and she would go back to work and let me care for them at that critical age.

Keep up the great work.

[LeftyMom]

26. agreed

I didn't work for my son's first two years, because after paying for child care I would have had nothing to show for it, and if I was going to work for free I would rather work at home.

After those first two years, I worked from home for another two. That was a really great option and I think it should be made available to more people when feasible.

[Iris]

43. if they want that option

"it should be made available to more people when feasible."

Why is it so hard to fathom that some women may just prefer to keep working at a job that requires them to leave the house?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

55. Its not..

Why is is so hard to fathom that many women who might want to spend their kids toddler and preschool years home have to work?

[Iris]

66. I'd say that's the answer that everyone wants to hear.

But as someone pointed out above, you rarely hear anyone defend a woman who dares to want a career and a family.

[Ellen Forradalom]

32. I don't have the slightest issue with SAHMs

if they don't have an issue with me.

But in any of the Mommy-Wars stuff I've read online or in magazines, the flow of condemnation is more from SAHMs to work-outside-the-home moms, with many WOHMs defending themselves weakly that they are forced to work to support the family. I have yet to read a WOHM retort forcefully that she works because this is what she went to college to do; and as a bonus, she doesn't need to treat a man as a meal ticket!

[Iris]

42. But there's nothing RIGHT with suggesting that everyone should be one either.

[Zookeeper]

47. I also chose to be a SAHM. My husband had zero interest in...

being a SAHD. We struggled financially for a long time on one income, but both felt like there was little point in having children if one of us wasn't going to be home teaching, loving and watching them grow.

No one made us have children. I really wanted to be a parent and fully experience my kids' childhood. LUCKILY, my husband's income allowed me to do that, even if it meant pinching pennies.

Parents should be able to make the choice that best suits them and their family situation without busybodies on either side of the political spectrum pronouncing judgment.

[underpants]

24. My question-is this in ANY WAY going to affect the quantity or quality of MILF videos?

:bounce:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

27. The reaction is moronic, then again so is the show...

Its not realistic to take someone stressed by being a stay at home mom out of that environment and for a short time sticking them in their dream job. *Everyone* is happy at first when the scenery changes.

When my wife became ill last year we put the kids in daycare, at first she loved begin able to do her day without having the kids around but over time she really started to miss them and want them home. When she recovered enough for one of the kids to come home I told her that if she really wanted the kids to stay in daycare she could just pick up a part time job so we could continue to afford it. She, at that point, wanted the younger one home in the worst way and for a time (a few weeks) was happy at every cry, diaper, feeding, and need the kid expressed... Now months later she is getting stressed by the whole thing.

For some women staying at home will be the more rewarding and fulfilling choice, for others it will be working. The people in their lives need to shut the hell up and support them in whatever decision they make in this regard (no matter which decision it is).

[Iris]

44. exactly. Because if it really was all about "THE CHILDREN"

then these people would be more concerned with ways our society can make things easier for families under all circumstances.

[riverdeep]

30. 50% of all marriages end in divorce.

That's a fact. Even fundies get divorced. An individual who winds up being dependent on someone else is setting themself up for a high probability of failure. While you are staying at home, it makes sense to do something that an employer would find marketable, doesn't necessarily have to be working, but something. Women need to be as financially independent as possible.

Divorce makes people turn. The loving husband who said he would "love you forever and always", can turn out to be quite vindictive when all is said and done. Many women have found that out the hard way when they're 37 and are suddenly faced with a quality of life they never imagined they would have to grapple with.

I also believe it generally results in a healthier relationship when people are there because they want to be, rather than because they 'have' to be.

[AlCzervik]

40. what fundies hate is "Choice" unless it's school choice.

i stayed home full time for a year because we saved up so i could, after my daughter was a year old i went back to work at night, my husband would come home from his day Job and we tagged off and that worked for us for a long time. People need to what works best for them and not everyone can afford to stay home or maybe doesn't want to stay out of their field forever.

Fundies--heal thy self first.

[elehhhhna]

45. Honey, there comes a time when being a "SAHM" becomes counter-productive.

Our time came about a year before I went back to work.

[MissB]

53. I hit that wall recently.

Which is why I'm thrilled to be re-starting my career. Soon. Hired, and all that.

The transition from SAHM to housewife was not one that I took well.

[elehhhhna]

56. CONGRATS!

Don't let the kid/s guilt you out too much. They'll try.

[knitter4democracy]

48. Oh, whatever. Being a SAHM is not for everyone.

I'm in my seventh year of being a SAHM, and it's a tough job. I hadn't planned on being out of the classroom this long, and at this point, I'd have tons of hoops to jump through to be able to teach again. My health went down the tubes a couple of years back, and I'm only now starting to come out of it. Most days are hard, but at least I get some down time to recover from everything.

If a mom wants to work, I say she should. If she wants to stay home, I say she should. Whatever choice that will make her the best person and the best mom is the best answer.

Heck, I'm looking into going to grad school, so does that make me a bad mom that I'm reading around my kids and can't be the Brownie troop leader this year? Those people need to get a life.

[Iris]

68. well-said.

[conflictgirl]

57. What gets ignored is the CLASS issue in having a SAHM

Pretty much all of the media debate over SAHM vs. WOHM (work outside the home mom) assumes that if the woman goes to work, she's going to have a professional career that's going to make a huge difference in her family's standard of living. What about people like me, who were making $8 an hour before having children and who would bring home $50 a week or so after paying for daycare? The whole reason I stayed at home when my kids were little was that at one point (when I had an infant and 2 older kids who all would've needed care) it would have cost me more in child care than I could earn by going to work. It's pretty easy when you're looking at a net income to your family of $200 a month after daycare costs to decide that it doesn't make sense. I went back to get my degree when my youngest was almost a year old and finished up last year, but as such I still haven't been able to find *any* job outside the home at all. At this point I actually WANT to be working, but based on what jobs pay around here (even with a degree) it's not going to immediately make a huge difference in standard of living after I pay for after-school/summer care for the kids. Right now I'm even applying for part-time minimum wage jobs, but if I'm making $7.15 an hour before taxes and paying $5 an hour for child care, I'm working for $2.15 an hour. What I hear in the debate about how women need to contribute to their families is that the intrinsic value of me working *anywhere* is more important to my kids than being home with me, even if I'm only earning $2.15 an hour. So the value of someone else caring for my kids is worth more in dollar value to my family than my earnings?

Most of this debate centers around whether or not women need to contribute to the family income or if being home with the kids contributes something important to society. What about the fact that MOST jobs don't pay enough that the woman's income makes much of a difference compared to the cost of child care, particularly when you still have infants and the care is more expensive? The economy is transitioning to a point where more of the jobs are low-paying and/or part-time, so more people are going to be in this situation. I read Leslie Bennetts' The Feminine Mistake and realized that she was absolutely right about how vulnerable it makes women to stay home - but also how classist her presumption was. Unless you have family members willing to watch your kids, when you are on the lowest end of the income spectrum, you can't afford not to work but you often can't afford TO work either. It's having kids in the first place that's the killer.

The SAHM vs. WOHM issue is often discussed in terms of womens fulfillment and assumes that every woman has a high earning potential. I call bullshit on that. For a lot of us who have stayed at home, it's pure economics and we stayed home *because* we would've earned so little that it wasn't worth it. (Also, you think the unemployment rate is bad now? Imagine if every single SAHM was in the job market right now - how much worse would the unemployment rate be then?)

[Romulox]

59. The entire "women should choose!" framework is classist.

Working people don't have these sorts of choices, but once again, "feminism" devolves into the lament of the wealthy woman.

[Zookeeper]

64. Excellent points. You are so right.

I would add that I have worked with women who had crummy corporate jobs, with crummy pay, and the money they made after paying for childcare helped pay for toys for their husbands: boat, snowmobile, ATV.

We're not wealthy. I figured out how to feed and clothe my kids with a limited budget. I don't think our quality of life would have been better after paying for daycare, dress clothes, gasoline, parking and take-out meals.

[Ellen Forradalom]

78. Other class ramifications are

the consequences of 'assortive mating.' Nowadays, a lawyer will tend to marry another lawyer, a geek another geek, a workingman a workingwoman. This amplifies by two income differentials between classes, which, in turn, distorts markets, for housing, consumer goods and services.

There is very real class resentment between the SAHM and WOHM mother where the women are of the same social class or where the income of the WOHM puts her in a higher class. We had more (perceived) social and economic equilibrium in a time when all women stayed home, but we should not forget that that was purchased at women's expense.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

60. Hey, how about we stop worrying so much about women/mothers and tell the FATHERS to parent?

If parenting and being with kids is such a big fucking deal, I fully expect the men to be spending the same amount of time with the children as the women are. Women seem screwed either way--lazy and submissive for staying at home, or power-hungry and selfish for working. Let the fathers do some shit.

[Darth_Kitten]

73. You said it.

:D

[rucky]

74. Then it must be worth watching.

[mondo joe]

76. Too fucking many people feel too fucking free to judge others' PERSONAL choices.

And women get the brunt of it, from men and from other women.

Mrs Spitzer got it right here on DU - she was judged for her own very personal choice to stand with her husband.

It's nasty and I wish people would respect privacy enough to respect private choices.