This may have been asked before, but can the repukes really claim Abraham Lincoln as one of theirs?

[DUlover2909]

He was a Republican, but come on! I mean, come on! Really? You pukes REALLY oppose slavery? Come on!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I believe that he either founded the Republican party...

Or he was one of the founders...

I'm sure he would be horrified at what the modern-day Republicans have done...

:cry:

[The Straight Story]

Hi Peggy

How are you tonight :)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. My dear Straight Story...

I am good tonight, sweetie...

I just finished K&R'ing your wonderful thread on love...

Me and my husband were out earlier at LAX for a DU meetup...

I'll fetch the link...Come see!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7555260

[The Straight Story]

8. I hope we can meet up soon

I just started a new job, finally! Been since July since I had one.

The wheels turn slowly, but they do turn :)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. I am really, really glad to hear that!

With the economy the shape it's in, getting work is no easy thing...

I hope it suits you down to your toenails!

I am looking forward to meeting you both as well...:hug:

[Two Americas]

30. no, not a founder

Lincoln was not a founder. He was neither among the first, nor the last to join the Republican party. He was a leader in developing and building the Republican party in Illinois. By the time of his nomination to the presidency he was the most important Republican in Illinois.

The Republican party was formed because the Whig party refused to take a strong and unambiguous stand against the predations and dominance of entrenched wealth and power - as represented by the slavery interests - much as the Democratic party refuses today to take a strong and unambiguous stand against the predations and dominance of entrenched wealth and power - as represented by the corporate interests.

The Republicans ran their first candidate for the presidency in 1856, and by 1860 had a strong national party and won the White House. The Whigs told them that "third parties don't work" and that they needed to "work within the system" and be satisfied with small steps and not be "too radical" or "unrealistic."

Fortunately, they didn't let that chatter stop them, and went ahead anyway on principle rather than supposed practicality. Most Whigs eventually joined them.

[lurky]

2. He was a liberal.

The Republicans were the liberal party at the time. Today he would have been a Democrat.

[tom_paine]

6. Exactly. But since when does the truth matter to the Bushies?

The Party of Lincoln is now the Party of Lee.

[Art_from_Ark]

28. The early Republicans were essentially composed of abolitionists

and Old Money Whigs. Lincoln was a useful tool for the latter group, as his administration gave them credibility after they had lost it as Whigs. Once he had finished his task of defeating the South, they bumped him off, and made life rough for his successor. The Liberal wing of the Republican Party, in the form of Horace Greely ("Go West, young man") was defeated in the Presidential election of 1872 by the moneyed interests. Subsequent Republican presidents (Hayes, Garfield, Arthur) showed some liberal tendencies, but they were either ostracized, or bumped off.

[varkam]

3. As far as I know, the parties have sort of swapped in ideology over the years

and if Lincoln were around today, he'd be more of a Dem than a Rep

[Skittles]

5. Lincoln would be a raging liberal today

that is a FACT

[Journeyman]

10. Yes, it's a well-known fact that corporate attorneys are the most liberal people in our society. . .

especially those who specialize in representing major transportation interests.

[Skittles]

13. different time

he would never support what is going on now and WTF!!! You are STILL here?

[Journeyman]

14. Am I supposed to be elsewhere? Or are you implying I need your permission to be here?. . .

[Skittles]

15. oh yes that's the implication

give me a BREAK - and BYE BYE AGAIN

[Journeyman]

16. Then I haven't a clue what you're referring too. . .

and as you're unable to explain it, I must assume you're clueless too. Or do you simply get peeved and insult people when they offer information that challenges assertions you make with only your certainty as evidence?

Nice edit, too. Certainly adds to the mystery. . .

[Two Americas]

21. history for dummies

One discovers that OMG! Lincoln took cases from the railroads in Illinois! and suddenly we know from that that he was a bad guy. I suppose that attorneys who defend murderers are in favor of murder, then.

The railroads had been newly chartered, and corporate charters in those days were not open ended and unregulated as they are today. It was seen as a way to raise capital for improvements of public benefit that otherwise could not be accomplished. Lincoln was a strong advocate of public transportation, for the sake of the many poor farmers who desperately needed it. Few such railroads were built in the South, where the few wealthy land owners controlled everything and built private transportation systems for their own use, and the Hell with the poor people and small farmers.

[SoCalDem]

7. All things are relative

Red Skelton played a clown.. so did John Wayne Gacy

"Mary Richards" drove a Volswagen Beetle... so did ted Bundy

Albert Einstein was a smart man..so was the Unabomber

[Oeditpus Rex]

17. Mary Richards drove a 1970 Mustang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCL3B5LgUCo

[SoCalDem]

18. Uh-oh.. I coulda sworn it was a Beetle

:spank: me

[misanthrope]

31. MTM was smoking hot back then!...

...Between her and Suzanne Pleshette on CBS Saturday nights, man oh man.

Just hearing that song puts me in a warm and fuzzy spot of childhood nostalgia.

[trusty elf]

32. Shakespeare drove a DeSoto

:crazy: :silly: :crazy:

[SheilaT]

9. He was their second

Presidential candidate. John Fremont was their first, in 1856.

The Republican party really did represent a major change from the past, and was quite liberal at its beginning, and for a very long time thereafter.

The Republican party of today bears very little resemblance to the Republican party of even 40 years ago, let alone 150 plus years ago.
'

It can be quite mind-boggling to see stuff about Richard Nixon's first term in office. By today's standards he'd be quite a liberal. Among other things he gave us OSHA. It really is instructive to see news coverage untainted by Watergate which, sadly, casts a backward shadow across his entire time in office.

The Republican Party's origins and core beliefs are ones most of us would agree with. Sort of like the core of Christianity,, or Islam, or even Judaism without the fanatical extremists. The core teachings of all of those religions are very good, are such that many of us would agree with, but have been sadly hijacked by extremists and no longer convey the love, hope, and positive message of its origins.

Today's Republican party has been hijacked by extremists, and we can all hope that it will return to its roots.

[Two Americas]

26. yes

There was a shift in power and wealth between the 1850s and 1900, away from agricultural landowners - as represented by the old southern plantation owners and aristocratic families north and south - toward industry, the leaders of which became the robber barons. The Republicans once stood against the plantation owners, and in favor of the small farmers and mechanical shops. When those industrial interests became a reactionary and tyrannical power, the Republican party stood with them. Teddy Roosevelt tried to change that, but failed.

Lincoln was aware of the dangers from both interests, as his speech to strikers in New England, and his speech in Wisconsin at the agricultural fair there show.

Lincoln saw small farmers, workers, and slaves as sharing common interests, while the financiers, plantation owners, and large industrial concerns were all a threat to the freedom of the people in first groups, and he saw the same principle in operation in each case. He was very clear and outspoken about this - he was far to the left of almost all of our modern Democratic party politicians.

I wonder if the Democratic party will ever move that far left?

Lincoln and the Republicans favored labor over capital, and government programs for the public welfare. The Democrats at the time opposed those. By the 1930’s, the two parties positions on those vital and central issues had switched and were the exact opposite of what they were in the 1850s.

[Xenotime]

12. They like him because he talked about god or something.

[Two Americas]

20. don't think he ever did

I don't think Lincoln ever used the word "God" in any of his speeches or correspondence. He did allude on a handful of occasions to a higher power, but he used the language of the Deists.

[Two Americas]

19. of course not

Lincoln was diametrically opposed to modern Republicans on the two most important issues, then and now.

First, Lincoln was an outspoken advocate of giving labor the higher consideration over capital, and saw slavery as one component of a system that gave capital the higher consideration over labor.

Modern Republicans favor profits over people, capital over labor, taking the exact opposite view from that of Lincoln. That was then, and is today the most important and fundamental issue of any in politics. People or profits? Which is more important?

Secondly, Lincoln was always a strong advocate of the government providing infrastructure and support to promote the public welfare.

Modern Republicans favor "privatization" and libertarianism. This is the second most important and fundamental consideration in politics - the role of government. Lincoln agreed with FDR that providing economic freedom and equality of opportunity for all citizens was a proper and necessary role for the government. Modern Republicans are violently opposed to that.

[SeattleGirl]

22. Not today's Repukes.

Maybe the Republican's of our past, but today? No how, no way!

[melody]

23. They can't even bring themselves to admit the nation's founders were liberals

You think they're going to admit that Lincoln wasn't one of their own.

These are the same people who've persuaded themselves that Jesus spoke English.

[SeattleGirl]

25. WHAT?????? WHAT?????

He didn't????????? :wow:


:rofl:

[melody]

27. Hey, don't laugh -- a friend of mine said that to someone and they were stunned

Fundies aren't known for their wide-ranging intellectual prowess.

[SeattleGirl]

29. They aren't? Well shush mah mouth and heat up the kettle, Martha!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gawd, the Repukes just take the cake, don't they?

[TheWraith]

24. Depends on how you define it.

The political parties during that period bear almost no resemblence to what they do now. Recall that the Republican party was originally formed from the liberal, anti-slavery wings of the Whig and Democratic parties. Lincoln was one of those former Whigs. This was a result of the anti-slavery groups' dissatisfaction with their parties' official positions, both of which were basically to try and maintain the status quo to avoid a civil war. In the aftermath of them bolting the parties, the Whigs fell apart entirely, and the Democrats fractured along geographic lines, with the main party nominating Douglas, and the breakaway Southern Democrats nominating their own pro-slavery candidates after the main convention refused to adopt a resolution supporting slavery in the territories.

All this is a long-winded way of saying that while they may technically belong to the same party, Lincoln was a left-leaning reformer, a breed which has long-since been driven out of the Republican party of today.

[eShirl]

33. I dunno, but most people I've known who are Confederate Flag display enthusiasts

happen to be Republicans. Could be coincidence I guess...

[noel711]

34. Political parties, like all things, change with time.

Lincoln was a man ahead of his time, but would he be acceptable
in our time? He'd be laughed out of touwn....

He was born into terrible poverty and tragedy, but that
never hampered his ability to use his gifts to help others.

He was self educated, fiercly independant, brilliant, a
gifted orator, yet deep and more of a thinker/listener
than 'ball of fire.' That 'ball of fire' was his oldest
adversary for office, Steven Hernden (?)....

They would travel Illinois, staging 3 hour debates,
attended by hundreds would would stand at attention and
listen.

LIncoln was NOT a religious man, never baptized, never
bought into the stiff dotrines of the church. He knew the
bible like the back of his hand, and could quote things
easily, but he respected the wisdom and the language
as a gift, not a cudgel with which to beat others.

His wife, Mary, was a southern belle, had her own problems,
(can you spell shopping addiction?), and was prone to
have seances in the White House in efforts to contact
their youngest son who died during the war.

Lincoln himself struggled for years with depression,
but that never hampered his wisdom or judgment.

By the way, LIncoln had even less 'experience' when
he was elected to the presidency, less than Obama.

[Perry Logan]

35. If Lincoln were alive today, there'd be a special unit of the RNC devoted to smearing him.