One in Five Americans Believes Sun Revolves Around Earth

[iris5426]

I read this, and my only reaction was: :wow: Seriously?? Pretty appalling if you ask me. And please don't call me elitist or something for sharing this, that's not what it's meant to be. And I also want to disclaim that I didn't have time yet to read the Wapo article it references as a source, but I plan to...I just wanted to see what other DUer's thoughts are on these stats...

The title of this article, that an embarrassingly high number of Americans believe that the sun revolves around the Earth, is only one point argued by the Washington Post’s Susan Jacoby, in her attempt to prove that Americans are in serious intellectual trouble, facing a virulent mixture of anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism and low expectations.

What else is signaling that Americans are becoming increasingly dumbed-down as a society?

* Reading -- of books, newspapers and magazines -- is on the decline. A 2007 study even found that 80 percent of American families did not buy or read a book in 2006.

* Attention spans are declining; Jacoby suggests this is due to television and videos. For instance, between 1968 and 1988, the average sound bite on the news for a presidential candidate dropped from 42.3 seconds to 9.8 seconds. By 2000, according to a Harvard study, the daily candidate bite was down to just 7.8 seconds.

* General knowledge is eroding. This is evidenced not only by the fact that one in five U.S. adults believe the sun revolves around the Earth, but also many others.

Yet, it’s not bad enough that knowledge is quickly declining in the United States. On top of that, there is an arrogance about this lack of knowledge, almost as if a good portion of the population is saying, “We know we’re ignorant, but we don’t care!”

Consider, for instance, that a 2006 survey by National Geographic-Roper found that nearly half of young Americans did not think it was necessary to know the location of other countries in which important news was being made. And another one-third felt it was “not at all important” to know a foreign language.

<snip>

Sources:

* Washington Post February 17, 2008

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/3/11/embarrassingly-stupid-americans-one-in-five-believes-sun-revolves-around-earth.aspx

[TooBigaTent]

1. Is this George's 20%? nt

[Seabiscuit]

126. I think it generally represents a solid majority of us.

This country keeps voting corrupt idiots into public office. And that's just the morons who vote. Imagine what the morons who don't vote must be like.

Most Americans don't want to have to do our own thinking - we just want to be told what to do. So if we don't get our instructions from some religious leader, we get it from the Tweetys on the Boob Tube or the Rushes on Hate Radio.

[leftofthedial]

2. and think george w bunnypants is doing a heckuva job as pretzeldent

[anniebelle]

3. Why doesn't this surprise me.

It is so evident by the callers to C-Span, the letters to the editor in my paper and the articles I see on blogs every day. We have got to improve our education system in this country and quickly.

[islandmkl]

4. whereas, a great majority of Americans believe the Earth...

revolves around Britney, Paris, Lindsay, Anna Nicole, etc.......

[Wednesdays]

37. Indeed...a Dem politician having sex with a prostitute

is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more heinous than a Repug that gives us 8 years of torture, lies our way into a war that gets thousands killed, ignores drowning people in a major city...etc., etc....

No one in this damn place can put together a single thought without it being spoon-fed to them through the M$M.

[BOSSHOG]

5. I'm always confused by that

How does a sphere revolve around a piece of paper? And christian teenagers have discovered (by playing leviticus backwards) that if you promise Mommy and Daddy that you will remain a virgin until you marry, oral sex doesn't count. So there, Bill Clinton had nothing to do with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. We have had this anti-intellectualism rising and it is damn scary

we also have had a rise in magical thinking and disdain for ANY kind of advanced education

Think ROME... around 400 CE and you will get an idea of what I mean where we are going

[KansDem]

14. I was having a beer with a friend after the 1994 election...

...commiserating about the political swing to the right, and he said he felt the zeitgeist of the times was "I'm ignorant and proud of it!" We both shook our heads for it was true--such a mindset made it possible for BushII to be installed as POTUS six years later...

But we didn't know just how ignorant!

[CTyankee]

34. Exactly. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

You'd probably not be surprised at how many young and not so young people I have met who do not know that we have 3 branches of government and what they are (one young woman said she thought Congress met at the White HOuse!).

P.S. I think you meant "commiserating" in your opening sentence...:hi:

[KansDem]

50. oops!

:blush:

Thanks! I fixed it... :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Most folks don't take no civics no more

that's part of the dang problem

(Yes them errors are on purpose)

And they are proud of it!

[DireStrike]

110. Incidentally, "zeitgeist of the times" is reduntant.

To be fair, you said you were having a beer. =D

1848, from Ger. Zeitgeist, lit. "spirit of the age," from Zeit "time" (see tide) + Geist "spirit" (see ghost).
etymonline.com

(Yes, I am studying to teach English!)

[KansDem]

144. Thanks!

For making me less ignorant...:hi:

I guess you might say I was ignorant and didn't know it! :D

[ceile]

7. How can you not buy or read a book for a year?!

1/3 feel it's not at all important to know a foreign language?! (actually that one I'm not terribly surprised about)

:wow: :banghead:

[iris5426]

24. I know!

The book thing got me almost more than the sun thing! How is that even possible??

[semillama]

39. That number will probably increase

Now that the Harry Potter series is over.

[iris5426]

44. Very valid point

I for one loved those books, and was glad that they got kids reading...but I'd be willing to bet that now that they are done you're right...

[walldude]

61. Not true, there are many kids book series's that are doing well

Sure, not the numbers Potter is doing but JK got kids reading. My oldest(13) has amazed me these past couple years with his reading choices. He's in the middle of a couple of series's and for Christmas he got a gift certificate at Borders and spent it on the Complete Works Of William Shakespear, Complete H.G. Wells and Complete Alexander Dumas. Not bad for a 13 year old. All my kids read because my wife and I read, it's not kids we need to get reading. It's parents, if parents start reading kids will follow. The people that don't read.. have no idea what they are missing.

[iris5426]

67. Very good point.

And :applause: for having such a bright and inquisitive 13 year old! :)

[semillama]

143. Good point.

I grew up in a house full of books and to no one's surprise, I developed into a voracious reader.

Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the Rowling effect may be real, in that the Potter series really did hook kids into reading who may not have had an entry point otherwise. Peer pressure to read a book - a fantasy book, no less - how wonderful!

[Marr]

149. We didn't have any books.

When I was 12, an uncle paid me to clean out his garage and throw away a bunch of old Newsweek magazines (about 2 years worth of them), and I took them home and read them all. The more colorful stories, I mean-- I was a kid so I had no interest in the dry stuff.

Thankfully I didn't have the foundation to understand any of their idiotic editorial writers, or I might've turned into Alex P. Keaton. I remember how I'd toss the thing aside once I reached Ben Stein or George Will.

[Common Sense Party]

150. We have to limit my 13-year old's reading.

If it were up to her, that's all she'd do. We encourage her to also have a life OUTSIDE of books.

Funny problem to have.

[Lorien]

123. J.K Rowling deserves a knighthood, IMHO

my youngest cousin became a passionate reader because of the Potter series. I send her a huge stack of books every Christmas and she burns through about two in a day. Thank goodness that I freelance for Scholastic and can buy them for 80% off!

[Lorien]

122. I've only just become aware of "non-readers" in the last decade

or so. I thought it was because i'd moved to Florida (I grew up in Ohio, where nearly everyone I knew was an avid reader). I've gone into various homes and noticed something odd; no bookshelves. No books or magazines to be seen anywhere, in fact. Even my next door neighbors-both journalists, and one a news director for an NPR affiliate- only have one tiny bookshelf in their home which contains a handful of mysteries, travel books, and a few cookbooks.Their only form of recreation is television and eating out-but at least they have an excuse as they spend most of their workdays reading and writing. What about the rest?

Whenever anyone new comes into my home the number of books is usually the second remark that comes out of their mouths (the first is always about the charm and craftsmanship of old houses-I live in a very solid craftsman bungalow that's decorated to fit with the period). Every room in my house has bookshelves-I even had to line some of the closets with them! I usually can't sleep until I've done a bit of reading, and I'm sure that most of the people on DU feel the same way.

[nonconformist]

156. I know, it's the weirdest thing.

I know several people who have virtually book-less homes. I just don't get it. I don't even have enough SPACE for all the books we own. I grew up in a house full of books and avid readers, and I try to emulate that in my own household. My 12 year old is a very avid reader.

Do you ever have people glare at your bookshelves and ask "have you read ALL those books?" I get that a lot.

My son is on Myspace, and I noticed that so many people on there put "I don't read" or "yeah, right" under the favorite books category. Since when are we proud of ignorance?

[Random_Australian]

130. Call me odd, but I don't think it's important for me to know a foreign language.

Mind you, that's probably because I've never been a fan of language much at all, english or otherwise.

Stupid need to communicate with others. ;)

Hmmmm, I might be jaded because I can just use IUPAC standards to read the various things I've needed to in other languages, though. :shrug:

Note: IUPAC = International Union of Physicists and Chemists - it means I can understand chemical stuff even when it is mostly written and labelled in, say, German.

[Common Sense Party]

151. I'm thrilled I learned Spanish. I use it often.

It opened up a whole other world for me--more music to like, different movies, wonderful friends, and other cultures.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

142. I have a problem with

not buying a book or two every week. I have had to rely on "creative shelving" to hide the actual number I own. Thank (whatever) for the library. Just checked out Jacoby's "Age of American Unreason." A good read indeed.

[Burma Jones]

8. Forget that whole "I'm sorry about being Elitist" crap

When being elitist means believing in physical evidence of a heliocentric solar system, count me among the elites. But yes, there are an appalling number of willfully ignorant and otherwise lazy intellects that populate our country and vote in our elections.

[Dukkha]

9. and they all take turns hosting The View

No other developed nation demonstrates this level of apathy toward intellect. If it's not about American Idol, reality TV, celebrity skanks, or the latest Hollywood rehash it's not worth learning.

[Oeditpus Rex]

134. Apathy, hell — outright disdain

Joe Average might be intimidated by higher levels of education than his, and he manifests that in reactions such as "Well, aren't you just Mr. Know-It-All."

And DU certainly has its share of that.

[varun]

10. Most Americans will not be able to tell the reason for seasons on Earth

and many probably dont know what causes days and nights.

BTW, its not just Americans - but most of the world.

Shows that ignorance knows no boundaries

[NutmegYankee]

56. Doesn't it sicken you that people think it's the distance?

As if the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn didn't exist on a map for a reason, geez.

I love watching the minds reel when I explain that the earth is actually closer to the sun for the Northern hemisphere winter.

[pokerfan]

94. On the other hand, the distance to the sun

does explain why (northern hemisphere) winter is shorter than summer by about four days.

Then their heads explode when I try to explain how precession explains why astrologers would say that I'm a Leo when the sun was clearly in Cancer on my birthdate.

It's not that there's so much ignorance out there; it's that there's such a lack of curiosity.

[DireStrike]

112. Oh really? (astrology)

Can you point me to an astrological source that takes precession into account? And the majority, I take it, don't? That's quite lazy for a system so dependent on reading these things.

[pokerfan]

115. Some do; most don't

I don't really care. I'm a Leo and Leo's don't believe in astrology. :P

[CTyankee]

70. Well, in retribution for Hades abducting Persephone, her mother Demeter, the goddess of fertility,

declared that for 3 months of every year nothing would grow on the earth. And that, according to the ancient Greeks, is why we have 3 months of winter...

[keroro gunsou]

88. einstein was right

"the only difference between genius and stupidity is that there are limits to what genius can accomplish."

[Tesha]

106. GAWD causes all that stuff. You don't need to no no more!! (NT)

[trof]

11. Did they change it? When?

:rofl:

[L. Coyote]

12. Kesey and five grad students wrote a book, and they had Venus rise in the east at sunset

I thought that bit of rearranging the solar system was particularly noteworthy. That many educated people is a sufficient sample to claim our cosmovision is lacking in reality correspondence.

This societal ignorance is the result of cultural inheritance, from our Dark Age of Ignorance
with theologists dictated were in the universe everything orbited around themselves,
not to mention a Pope deciding which royal Prince got to conquer which half of the world.

[LanternWaste]

13. There are also many people who will spend $4.00 for a cup of coffee

There are also many people who will spend $4.00 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks, or $60.00 for a computer game. Or watch American Idol every week. Or wear shorts in cold weather.

I don't see the differences between any of them...

[endarkenment]

21. You do not see a difference between

choosing how to spend your money and choosing to believe in total nonsense?

[LanternWaste]

38. I don't see a difference in...

I don't see a difference in spending money on utter nonsense, and believing in utter nonsense (of which, we're saying the same things, but we're also advertising our biases). They both appear to lead us to the precise same destinations...

But I suppose if I did choose to believe in utter nonsense, it wouldn't cost me $60.00 (but it wouldn't be marketed as well, either).

[endarkenment]

42. One is a matter of taste and opinion

and is only "utter nonsense" in a totally non-objective sense. Your opinion of video games and their monetary value, for example, is just that: your non-objective opinion. Their monetary value is an objective fact, your opinion of that value is not. One's professed belief that the earth is orbited by the sun, on the other hand, is objective bullshit contradicted by objective facts.

[LanternWaste]

45. I'm under the impression that value is wholly subjective rather...

I'm under the impression that value (indeed, all object value systems) is entirely subjective rather than objective fact.

That aside, my position stands-- both objective and subjective nonsense leads us to the precise same place. Two different pathways, numerous justifications, many defenses-- but still utter nonsense.

[endarkenment]

52. The monetary value of a commodity is a fact.

The market sets the value and it can be measured. You observed (for some games) that the value is $60. You probably also know that that price of a game frequently drops rapidly after an initial release as the market determines the real value of a particular game based on various factors. Your opinion of what the market has determined to be the value of the game does not affect that value unless you manage to convince enough potential buyers of games to stop purchasing them. At that point the objective value of a video game would be a different, but still measurable, fact.

[DireStrike]

113. A fact dependent upon a great many things

Not the least of which is subjective opinion. It's a fact only after the fact when the value has been determined, and the item paid for. For example, a publisher can use advertising to increase the starting sale price of a newly released game. Everyone's opinion of the game's value affects its price, even LanternWaste's, since by deciding not to buy it he helps set its value lower.

[CRF450]

125. WTF??

So a game seems like utter nonsense to you, while to us its fun and entertainment. I have no problem what so ever in paying $60 for a good game. Hell I spent $2000 in a new computer to play games at a high performance.

[Book Lover]

148. Play Civilization once in a while (nm)

[damntexdem]

66. Hint: the ones who wear shorts in cold weather ...

are the ones with frostbitten legs.

Those who buy the Starbucks coffee, by contrast, have the burned legs.

[Chovexani]

74. Allow me to translate this post.

"People who enjoy things that don't interest me are morons."

[PVnRT]

137. Chovexani wins

[MedleyMisty]

77. Computer games are fun

And the initial investment brings you a good return - I imagine that the money spent on Sims 2 versus the hours I've spent on it average out to, I don't know, a sixty fourth of a cent per hour? Or less?

What's up with the prejudice against games?

[DireStrike]

116. I agree on the investment vs. hours of fun

I was amazed when I truly started to consider it. Games can really be dirt cheap, at least the ones that are great. When I consider that I've played some games several hours a week for years, and STILL AM playing some (Counterstrike, released in 1999)... I must have spent thousands of hours playing that game. For 40 or 50 bucks? Amazing.

[mondo joe]

80. Oooh and some men have sex with other men. Nice bit of fundamentalist attitude there

pal.

[spoony]

92. Are you delusional?

Where in the hell did you get that from?

[mondo joe]

97. People who adopt purely subjective biases as absolute truth are just fundies.

That's where.

[endarkenment]

15. Thus my posting name: we are in the endarkenment. nt.

[tachyon]

16. I don't gotta know nuthin', I gots Jebus in my hart

:D

[spoony]

93. Oh goodie, a new bigot

Assuming the people in the poll were Christians is as prejudiced as assuming they were black and couldn't answer correctly because they're genetically inferior. But one prejudice is acceptable here and one is not, so if you stick to the former you'll fit in wonderfully.

[Tesha]

107. 'Betcha they are, though.

Most religions accept modern astronomy as the truth;
Christianity sent the Inquisitors after the folks
who promoted heliocentrism.

Tesha

[spoony]

127. That's a rather poor grasp of history you have there

Let me educate you, since by all appearances no school ever did.

First, there has never really been any single entity you can call "Christianity" in such sweeping statements as "Christianity sent the Inquisitors..." Nor, indeed, were there a single set of people called Inquisitors. There were at least four different Inquisitions.

Now, presumably you are talking about Galileo. Whilst true that Pope Urban VIII believed in a geocentric universe (based, by the way, not on Christian tenets but on the theories of the non-Christian Ptolemy), most of the rest of the Christian world accepted a heliocentric universe--which was formulated by Nicolaus Copernicus, a Catholic cleric. His _On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres_ was published DECADES before Galileo's trial.

So your weak prejudiced argument comes crashing down. It has many times been Christian scientists who have advanced our understanding of the cosmos. I'm sure you aren't aware, but another cleric formulated the Big Bang Theory. People try and try to just focus on a select few negative, and widely condemned, dark spots in Christianity's historical relationship with science, but somehow always neglect the vastly larger positives.

I wonder why that is.

[Tesha]

128. I'm sure Galileo feels better now that you've explained it.

So now go insult somebody else. There's no doubt that
Christian and Catholic fundamentalists are a major
force fighting for ignorance in this country and
all your insults aimed at me won't change that one
bit.

Tesha

[spoony]

135. Ah, now you're changing your tune

Now it's "fundamentalists" rather than "Christianity" eh? And now it isn't about heliocentrism but about this country and this day? I'll go ahead and take that as an admission that you know you're wrong about history.

[Tesha]

140. Fundamentalists are just one degree of Christians.

All people who believe in theist religions are deluded.
Some try to push their delusions on others. Some try
to FORCE their delusions on others. It's all a question
of degree.

Right now, our country is becoming more and more full
of the pushers and forcers.

And no, there's nothing wrong with my history. When
the Inquisition persecuted Galileo, that was mainstream
Catholicism doing it, not some bunch of fundy whackos.
The same mainstream Catholicism that now argues against
sex ed for kids, against recognizing human rights for
gays and women, attempts to suppress stem cell research
and other life-prolonging therapies, and illegally urges
people about how they should vote vis-a-vis these issues.

And also *STILL* tries to tell people what books they
shouldn't read and what movies they shouldn't see lest
they get "ideas".

C'mon now, rush back to their defense...

Tesha

[Fox Mulder]

17. No wonder why this country is going down the tubes.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Rush Limbaugh thinks it rises and sets over his pasty white ass

So there.

[iris5426]

23. .

:rofl:

[Deep13]

19. Allz I knows iz I ain't descended from no ape.

[GoneOffShore]

41. That's seriously disturbing

[pnorman]

82. I really DIG that image!

I'll "borrow" it for a worthy cause. Thanks!

pnorman

[Deep13]

98. That's more unsettling than the picture itself.

:evilgrin:

[lpbk2713]

20. One in five, huh? I wonder how that coincides with O'Louffa's ratings?

That might make an interesting parallel.

[riverdeep]

22. This is why robots will soon take over.

We are building our own usurpers.



And I, for one, welcome our synthetic overlords.

[OhioChick]

25. Wow.....

OMG...:wow:

[snooper2]

26. That's about right...

About the same number of knuckledraggers think the Earth is 6045 years old...

[KaptBunnyPants]

87. No, The proportion of young Earth creationists in America is more like half.

A great many of these people have probably not put much thought into this, I hope.

[alarimer]

27. I attribute that to bad science education

taught by people who are not science majors.

[BlooInBloo]

28. We're a stupid, stupid country. In breaking other news, dog bites man.

[Solly Mack]

29. life without books....I can't imagine it

[MadAndy]

30. That's pretty stupid, It revolves around Mrs Bill Clinton.

[Dr. Strange]

31. Before we get all uppity here...

How many people here can justify their belief that the Earth revolves about the sun? Other than saying, "That's what I was taught in school."

Just curious.

[varun]

40. The motion of the sun along the zodiacal belt

the observation of mercury and venus moving around the sun, and then the simple theory of gravitation - all point to this conclusion.

[endarkenment]

48. retrograde planets and occam's razor

[varun]

49. mercury and venus transit

and when you can "see" stars go behind the sun during a total solar eclipse...

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I'll start with Keppler's stellar Mechanics

but you have a good point....

Due to our wonderful educational system...:: :cough, cough::: I don't think most people can explain how or why the light switch goes on and off at home, let alone... Keppler's Stellar Mechanics, or even more strange concepts such as Universe Inflation and string theory.

[DireStrike]

118. Do you know people who can explain string theory?

See: http://xkcd.com/171/

[NutmegYankee]

63. Hard data from decades of spaces probes flying about...

Observations of other planets and their orbital periods in relation to ours and the stars.
The docking of a solar observing satellite, SOHO in the "neutral zone" between the earth and sun.
Data gathered from eclipses.
Mathematical calculations based off of data gathered from observing the positions of planets and stars in relation to our own.
Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica.

[CTyankee]

71. Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica.

Whatever happened to The Enlightenment?

[Dr. Strange]

78. The only signs left of the Enlightenment I see...

are over in the Lounge.

I also see vague remnants of the Inquisition over in GD-P.

[GoneOffShore]

100. Is Torquemada posting over there again?

I'll have to go watch.

[Canuckistanian]

86. Enlightenment is for squares, Daddy-O

I'm talking four corners, man.

Eggheads are good enough for inventing neat stuff we can buy.

But they're no good at parties.

[NutmegYankee]

89. Who cares when you have a big Plasma TV and an iPod.

We lost track of our true heritage.

[truedelphi]

146. But industrialized, corporate scientists might

Simply explain this away to help the creationists - these are simply anecdotal data, and do not really indicate anything of relevance.

[Tesha]

108. Differential red shift.

Nowadays, our instruments are probably sensitive enough
to let you measure, across the year, the difference in
red shift in the light from the stars as our orbit around
the sun swings us (relatively) towards them for half a
year and away from them for the other half of the year.

Also, the fact that we've at least occasionally success-
fully navigated spacecraft to the planets suggests that
our understanding of gravitation and the arrangement of
our Solar System is pretty good.

Tesha

[PVnRT]

138. That would be Doppler effect, not red shift

Red shift is caused by gravity, not relative motion.

[Tesha]

141. "Red Shift" is primarily caused by the Doppler effect (and twinned with expansion)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_shift

An observed redshift due to the Doppler effect occurs
whenever a light source moves away from the observer, corresponding
to the Doppler shift that changes the perceived frequency of sound
waves. Although observing such redshifts, or complementary blue
shifts, has several terrestrial applications (e.g., Doppler radar
and radar guns), spectroscopic astrophysics uses Doppler redshifts
to determine the movement of distant astronomical objects. This
phenomenon was first predicted and observed in the 19th century as
scientists began to consider the dynamical implications of the
wave-nature of light.

Another cause of redshift is the expansion of the universe, which
explains the observation that the redshifts of distant galaxies,
quasars, and intergalactic gas clouds increase in proportion to
their distance from the earth. This mechanism is a key feature
of the Big Bang model of physical cosmology.

Gravitational redshift is observed if the receiver is located at
higher gravitational potential than the source. The cause of
gravitational redshift is the time dilation that occurs near
massive objects, according to general relativity

[Iris]

32. I seriously question the stat that 80% of families did not buy or read a book in 2006.

Most families I know who have kids have tons of books around. They're cheap and make good presents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. I do, since the numbers from the industry continue to decline

partly it is because publishers rarely take risks any longer,

Partly because more and more folks are simply NOT readying

[Iris]

36. It's not 80%. I'm sorry. That's just stupid.

on edit: I found this "statistic" and it comes from a guy who does seminars on self-publishing. Go figure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Look for the stats published by the National Publishing Associsation

they are just as shocking. Or go to the Bookstore and take Poets and Markets off the shelf. They have an article exactly on this in this month's issue

[Iris]

57. can't seem to find a website for Natianl Publishing Association.

or poets and markets

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Check the mag

I was readying the damn thing yesterday at Borders, I did not imagine it

Here you go

http://www.amazon.com/Poets-Writers-Magazine/dp/B00006KT0K

[CTyankee]

73. Middle class and up families, yes. Even there, I am not so sure, but there is a better chance,

the greater the education level of the parents. If a parent has been used to going to the public library and checking out books, so will their kids. If not, no.

When I was a Literacy Volunteer, one of our greatest accomplishments was taking new immigrants to the U.S. to their nearest public library and getting them a library card. It is the hallmark of literacy in the United States and a cherished tradition leading to greater literacy for new immigrants to our country...

[guitar man]

35. that's pretty close to 19%

nuff said :D

[MisterP]

43. sweet Sherri Shepherd!

[undeterred]

46. Four in Five politicians believe the world revolves around them.

[elehhhhna]

47. Everybody knows the earth revolves around Jesus.

[Obamanaut]

101. My fundie sister-in-law said something at christmas about

remembering the 'reason for the season.' I responded with something about rotation, axis tilt, orbit and got a blank expression that I recall seeing a lot of in the 60's and 70's (good years for me). Ms ret88 elbowed me and told me to let it go.

[AlCzervik]

51. Books, they're available almost everywhere!

[Lex Talionis]

54. The coming of the "Huns". If your ever in Brussels..

Check out the Graffiti on their monuments. Same is happening here. The dumbing down of America began long ago. Knowledge is power. Those in Power do not want to share with the "workers". So you make each generation a little less educated than the last. Accelerate when possible.

TV, The Internet, computers, calculators, etc. While all powerful tools of knowledge can also be used to dispense ignorance. making some not have to think or try any deductive reasoning, just click. People are less respectful these days, taught from berth that they are "special" and should always get what they want. hard work is uncool and cruel, cause I want mine now.
The my Religion is way better than yours mindset. Making excuses for peoples behavior, instead of holding them responsible, the norm. Look at what Hollywood is.

Add willfully ignorant people to all that and you have the coming of a 21st century dark age with all the cool gadgets that go with it. Its going to get worse,IMHO. But, hey what the hell I care, Some Governor is on TV, something about paying $5,000 an hour for a hooker. Now that's, something to do some heavy thinking on.

[iris5426]

68. Makes me worry that the movie Idiocracy is a window into the future... nt

[Lex Talionis]

96. I haven't seen that movie. Daughter says I should.

The future is not as bright as some would have you believe.

[fascisthunter]

59. Was This Poll Taken at the RNC?

Or was this a fundimentalist retreat?

[OhioChick]

62. .....

:rofl:

[depakid]

64. "Wapo article it references as a source..."

The WaPo has about as much credibility as the National Enquirer.

[damntexdem]

65. Yeah, but then, four in five believe that it revolves around the U.S.

Now, what did you say was declining? The atten

[MedleyMisty]

69. Part of the problem is that you even had to worry about being called elitist

This post is split into two parts. A long boring biography of my life that explains where I'm coming from and sets up the end piece, and the end piece itself that explains that the whole ignorance thing is related to the class war. But I realize that a lot of people have short attention spans and/or limited DU browsing time. So I'm leaving the bio here if you want to read it, but if not scroll down until you see "Actual Post" in bold. I would like for everyone to read that part.

The idea that somehow not being an ignorant gullible fool is elitist is what keeps people ignorant. "Ah dunt want to learn nuthin an be a leetist dumass."

Of course it's not like rich educated people help things by actually being elitist dumbasses.

I'm beginning to think that the point of my continuing to breathe is to help people learn - I've worked at Wal-Mart and Arby's and although my job now is pretty damn cushy compared to those I still only make $10.25 an hour. I only have an associate's degree. Maybe I could talk in language that they would understand and they wouldn't get all defensive around me.

I don't know, though - my father built a decent modest house for us and then died without a will and left behind a greedy selfish family that wanted the house, so my mother and I ended up moving out to the 12 acres that we owned and buying a trailer. But when there wasn't an AP or honors course or interesting elective for a time slot and I was forced into things like fashion merchandising and non-honors world geography, people would treat me like I was some exotic princess. I would even get asked if I lived in a big house. I was like, "Umm, no, I live in a trailer." Single-wide, even.

And even in the last few years I get treated as if I'm a member of a higher social class than I am just because I was born with good genes when it comes to brain power. Like I was disgusted when I started posting on a forum for gifted people and someone sent me a PM saying they were surprised that someone like me came from such poor people. I hated that poster for a while - I guess it's evidence that people can change and grow, because she's a regular email friend now.

I don't know where people got this stupid frigging idea that class and intelligence go together and that being smart is "elitist". Class and education, sure. But DNA doesn't care how much money your parents make. It's not like there's some checklist that the code has to check - "Hmm, this being's progenitors only make $30,000 a year; better program for an IQ of 90."

And I get so angry at the gifted literature - you'd assume that the only people who are really intelligent are those whose parents have the opportunity and money and connections for them to be able to do things like go to college at 10 (which I tested at college level at 10). And then when you post and ask about the gifted kids whose parents didn't have all that money, you get "I don't like to think about people who don't have opportunities." I wanted to reply "Fuck you." but well - that wouldn't have been appropriate. And see what I mean about rich educated people actually being elitist dumbasses?

And I worked with a temp agency for a couple of days (I came home and cried a lot and my mother told me I didn't have to go back) and I went to this warehouse place where socks were folded and put in boxes and T-shirts and underwear were ran through some sort of machine that did something to them. During one of the tiny little short breaks (I think we got two 15 minute breaks a day or something?), I was sitting at the table reading Charlotte Bronte's Villette and heard someone whisper "You shouldn't be here if you're smart."

I felt like screaming, "Where the hell else am I supposed to go?!"

My 7th grade SAT scores qualified me for Duke's TIP Program. I got a full need-based scholarship every summer and had the time of my life. Anyway, at the award ceremony there was all this talk about "these kids are our future and will solve our problems, blah blah blah." Not unless you give us the chance, you fucking slave owners. Because guess what, when I am fighting to live through another shift at Arby's without killing myself I don't have any energy or mental health and well-being left over to go home and spend the precious free time between living death and sleep solving the problems that your greed and hatred and fear and total and complete selfishness created. Not that you'd fucking listen to anything I came up with anyway, because I'm just poor white McJob trash despite being on the very far end of the IQ bell curve.

Yeah, it's been over three years since I walked out of Arby's for the last time but it kind of left deep scars - physical as well as psychological. I was actually walking through Harris Teeter a couple of weeks after quitting and saw slicers in the deli department that were just like the slicer at Arby's and had a panic attack.

ACTUAL POST
Anyway, the point of this tl;dr biography (and thank you if you're still here) is that knowledge is a class issue. Pick up Joe Bageant's book Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War. I did, and it's helping me understand a bit.

Life pretty much sucks like hell if you're not rich - oh, and by my personal scale most of the people on this site who call themselves middle class are filthy rich. Anyway, the whole life sucking thing kind of makes us po' folk upset. And very few people have genes like mine - most of them are just average (well duh, average is average for a reason) or maybe bright or perhaps moderately gifted. And our education system also sucks like hell and our culture is full of fluff. I dare you to spend a day just watching TV and listening to commercial radio. See if you learn anything that's actually true and/or worthwhile or if anything catches your imagination or makes you think or makes your soul dance with joy.

So - your job sucks out your soul and any will that you have to live. You can't afford health care or a decent place to live or a decent car. Everyone else constantly makes fun of you and treats you like you're less intelligent than an amoeba just because of where you work. (Fun note: I kicked a hole in the drive-thru wall at Arby's once dealing with customers who were dumber than shit themselves and treated me like I was worse than shit.) It seems like you're pretty much in the world just to get shit on. And then the only voice speaking to you about this is the voice on TV or on radio that says it's the fault of those nancy ass too smart for their own good liberals. Your idea of knowledge and intelligence becomes tied into people lounging around in upscale universities all day, just sitting on their asses and making more money than you will ever see in your lifetime. Perhaps even taking money away from you and using it to do things like study whether or not kids are addicted to caffeine or the mating habits of some weird species halfway across the world that has nothing to do with your life.

I could go on and on but I think I've already written way more than the average attention span can handle.

So I will just conclude - maybe we should try talking to people. Counteract the voice of neocon propaganda with the voice of truth and compassion.

And please, if you're an elitist dumbass just accept it and stop pretending you're not. I was reading a book of Buddhist essays the other day and it was all these people going on month long retreats in foreign countries and you know, just really learning a lot about compassion. Like omg, I might give my housekeeper $5 to buy herself a treat with when I get back to the States.

We don't need that kind of compassion. Fulfilling your noblesse oblige to the peasants won't help anyone and will just make things worse, even if it does help put a drywall patch over the gaping hole in your soul and is a much better and more ethical way of doing that than filling the hole with another 40 inch LCD TV and a new Lexus in the garage. Hmm - actually people do need to be around people who aren't like them to break down the walls of prejudice.

Okay, come on. Just put your pride and ego away and be quiet and receptive and willing to learn and let go of old prejudices and ways of thinking.

Where you find ignorance, instruct it. Where you find pain, comfort it. Where you find burdens that are too heavy to carry, offer to share the load. Do all of this humbly and respectfully with equality in your mind and in your heart, and you may find that the shell of neocon propaganda breaks away and a fully sentient human ready to do battle with you on the frontlines for the future of the species emerges.

And I do believe that there is still a future. It won't look like anything we've known, but if we can pull together we can make it through this and come out the other side. Bruised and bloody and hopefully a hell of a lot wiser, but still here.

It's up to us, though. Like my hero said - we have to be the change we want to see in the world.

[cottonseed]

72. It doesn't?

[New Dawn]

75. There are also Americans who think that Poland is in Africa...

And that the Soviet Union was a Central American country.

[magellan]

105. And don't forget the brainiacs who think WWII was fought against Russia. n/t

[Tesha]

109. I know what you're saying but it's arguable that the end of WWII *WAS*...

I know what you're saying but it's arguable that the end of WWII
*WAS* fought against the Russians. Aside from the way that Europe
was partitioned after the war, it's also been commonly argued that
the reason we nuked Japan was to make a point to the Russkies.

Tesha

[magellan]

121. Yes, but I'm talking about surveys of college students

...where more than half couldn't correctly identify our ally during WWII out of these four: Italy, Japan, Germany, Russia. And then there's the survey showing a significant number of high school seniors believe Germany was our ally against Russia during WWII.

I've looked for these surveys but can't find them in all the google returns...but the high school survey was a major reason Ken Burns made his documentary series "The War".

[Tesha]

129. I know; I was just riffing off of your point.

Things are always more complex than "Russia was
our ally and Germany, Italy, and Japan were our
enemies."

Tesha

[katty]

76. one on the st interviewer said: we have FIVE moons

geez, what are they smokin'?!

[Wizard777]

79. The was an astronaut, a cosmonaught, and a blonde.

The cosmonaught says, we were the first people in space. The astronaut says, we were the first people on the moon. The blonde says, we blondes will be the first people on the sun. The astronaut and the cosmonaught say, you can't go to the sun. You'll burn up. The blonde says, Well Duh! That's why we're going at night.

[girl gone mad]

81. "80 percent of American families did not buy or read a book in 2006."

I don't believe it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. The last book my husband read was "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" in 1989.

I shit you not. He read newspapers, magazines and the internet but no books. I could be swayed to believe this because my husband was an intelligent man. I also think it might be stilted because a lot of people forget the book they bought at the airport stand, etc. Hard to say. I know my mother has not bought a book in the last year, nor has my father. How did I end up being their kid? We end up with too many books and people keep giving the damned things back to me when I send them along the wire.

[petronius]

84. It's shocking when you hear it, but believable on reflection

My reading has gone down in the past five years or so, as much as I hate to admit it. And looking around the people I know, I can easily imagine that many of them (even 8 out of 10) don't open a book for years at a time...

[Canuckistanian]

85. I think this coincides with the popularity of Faux News

Well, actually more like a continuing trend since 'way before Faux.

When are Americans going to figure out that sliming public education is deleterious to your cultural, intellectual and financial well-being?

And I'm speaking of voting Americans in general, not the present company, of course.

[struggle4progress]

90. Washington? Where the hell is that? Next time, quote from a paper published in America!

[bumblebee1]

154. I was living in California at the time.

I was on a bus going to a job in San Diego. Some of the guys on the bus were talking about Washington state. One "genius" asked if Washington state was near Philadelphia. It took all the restraint I had to yell, "No, moron. That's Washington, D.C., not Washington state." Maybe this "genius" was out sick when U.S. geography was taught at school that day.

[JCMach1]

91. should be 1-5 Americans can't properly read the questions on stupid tests!

I don't know which is worse actually...

[Perry Logan]

95. Rasmussen has it at 88%.

[rpannier]

99. George's base speaks from their mud huts

with no indoor plumbing

They haven't af**king clue

[Elspeth]

102. How many of them post in GD-Primaries?

:evilgrin:

[0007]

103. If the earth is flat it makes sense to me.......Were like a frisbee

going around in circles.


JUst gotta stay away from alligators.

[twiceshy]

104. If I had to blame one thing it's FASHION.....

Meaning the macro sense of fashion, where it is more important to wear the right things, say the right phrases, go to the right "hotspots", than it is to have actual knowledge and achievements. Exhibit A is any hip-hop video I have ever seen.

[truedelphi]

145. I almost wanted to go into the thing abt fashion when

I was posting on the Colonists and what lead up to the Revolutionary War

http://tinyurl.com/23946n

Feel free to add yr two cents!!

BTW the colonists wore clothes made out of hemp -they didn't need to buy clothes every two or three years because hemp is much more durable than cotton and the synthetics that we are fourced to ear.

[JackRiddler]

111. No. One in three Americans don't understand the question posed to them in a survey.

Though I figure some of those other results (like, "who needs to know where countries are? Foreign languages, what are those?") are spot on.

[LSdemocrat]

114. I actually find this poll more disturbing

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm (I reformatted the poll to make it more readable)

NBC News Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). March 8-10, 2005. N=800 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.5.

"Which do you think is more likely to actually be the explanation for the origin of human life on Earth: evolution or the biblical account of creation?" Asked of those who answered "Biblical account": "And by this do you mean that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh as described in the Book of Genesis, or that God was a divine presence in the formation of the universe?"

Evolution 33
Biblical account 57
--Subgroups:
----Created in six days 44
----Divine presence 13
None of the above (vol.) 3
Unsure 7

[FreeJoe]

117. Changing?

Is it really changing? I'm pretty old and I remember my compatriots in school being staggeringly ignorant. What percentage believed the sun revolved around the earth 40 years ago? What percentage of families read books then? I am convinced that most people are intellectually lazy and undereducated. I'm not convinced that the problem has worsened since the 70's when The Late, Great Planet Earth was the best selling non-fiction book of the decade.

[iris5426]

119. I told my mom about this this morning, and her first reaction was

well yeah, look at the people on Leno when they do Jaywalking, "People think it's funny, but it's really pretty sad."

And it is.

:banghead:

[Raejeanowl]

120. Whoa!

Welcome to the Dark Ages.

My answer to the stats is that I know one of the families purchasing the other 20% of the books VERY WELL INDEED.

You know, I was involved in a thread yesterday where I and several other posters thought the OP might have been just a little guilty of unnecessarily bragging on his own impressive I.Q. corollary to a point about average intelligence. Our jabs for inserting his self-pride into a redundant comparison were met with cries of "anti-intellectualism!"

I thought that was merely amusing, whereas this story is the real thing, and totally appalling. The "arrogance of ignorance," is becoming a millennial social philosophy that (curiously) even celebrates itself in books and folklore; books its own hapless converts might struggle to read once they are socially promoted and graduated out of school. Had I taken the opposite tack in the example given above, I'm sure adherents of this brainwashing program would have accused me of elitism. I ain't no snob, either.

We're not talking about the "Get a brain, morans!" kind of petty ridicule we earn ourselves over unfortunate, embarrassing, lazy or inadvertent mistakes, but the mindset of the person who accuses his boss of being anal retentive and gets fired because the boss dares to expect consistent mathematical accuracy, or the auto mechanic who gets angry when his tickets are repeatedly rejected by the office because there is no repair code for "fixed breaks," or the college student who thinks her professor is just being petty when she is docked two full grades on a history paper because it is poorly constructed, horribly punctuated, and barely readable.

Technology and the virtual universe are obviously not improving our preparation for the real world to any significant degree; they have yet to fulfill their initial promise as an educational tool.

Are you as annoyed as I am by Internet shorthand evolving into a "real" written language, cashiers who can't make change without electronics, so-called journalists who can't spell or construct a coherent sentence, students who know every level of the hottest video game but can't do effective research for homework, and posters who are lost without spell-check but still don't bother using it? Are you as saddened by kids who can't do everyday math in their heads or on paper without a calculator or tell you what countries comprise North America? Are you as disgusted and frightened by the lowest-common-denominator, brain junk-food popularity of printed tabloids and trashy "reality" television programming? Yes, I know I digress a little; but I suspect it's all part of the same disease: Ernest-In-Earnest Syndrome. Cultural entropy.

Forgive me for being a product of a generation where college was not expected or even necessary for all, but then, a high school education also used to be a valuable basic education for everyone except "the professions" and "the skilled trades." Rather than leaving no children behind, perhaps we should concentrate more on leaving no children without, and adopt another paradigm for school completion requirements.

[iris5426]

124. Yes.

:applause:

Great post. You summed up all the things I was thinking and wishing I had time to put into the OP yesterday...

[Initech]

131. Why must we always be the stupid country?

Why cant be the cool country?

[warren pease]

132. Brains are for wimps, and other American pop culture truths...

I guess geography has never been an American strong suit. The great journalist/satirist/ego-puncturer Ambrose Bierce defined war this way in his Devils Dictionary: "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." And no wonder...

By the time the American creation myth, Saturday morning cartoons, public (mis)education, pop culture, peer group socialization, mass media, PR, advertising, higher education, the awful world of corporate work and debt slavery get through with them, Americans no longer know up from down unless they drop an anvil and see whether it hits their toes or their nose.

That's not only the end result of continuous exposure to the American dream machine; it's the intended outcome. When tens of millions of people live in a mythological netherworld of false promises, crushing social and financial obligations and unattainable expectations, they're going to be way too busy and self-absorbed to worry about the FCC's latest ruling to allow more media consolidation or the Iraqi civilian body count or the actual issues behind the candidates' smiles and waves.

I don't know if they're clueless because they're distracted, under-informed, undereducated, predisposed to meaningless idiocy or must plain dumb... It doesn't really matter anyway because the outcome is the same: a marginalized, disconnected, alienated and powerless citizenry that spends too much time waiting for instructions and almost no time thinking for themselves.

But that's part of the genius of the elite, and of the public opinion manipulation experts they hire to take the heat off. Thanks to their gentle persuasion, we learn that there's no such thing as class in America, and anyone who claims there is must be a flaming lefty trade unionist with a grudge against the rich. And who could take issue with those exceptional souls who've managed to parlay their superior skills and business acumen into vast personal fortunes, most of which they give away through charities and foundations that reflect the goodness and decency of these very special people. Excuse me while I lose my lunch. :puke:

Pardon me. Moving on...

We also learn that this year in particular it's the immigrants' fault for taking all our good jobs -- like the ones that involve digging ditches and picking fruit and getting murdered by toxic pesticides sprayed all over them from a crop duster. The ones every young, healthy American aspires too.

Or it's the damn environmentalists who are choking economic progress with their insane concerns for spotted owls and lizards and some useless fish. Don't forget the army of shrill feminazis and their tireless quest to emasculate the American male, taking away the aggressiveness and drive and spirit of competition that's made the US the number one mostest wonderfulest country in the whole gosh-darn capitalist world.

In case we've forgotten, here's the basics: Taxes on the rich are killing our competitiveness. They hate us for our freedoms. This is the land of equal opportunity for all. Free trade is an economic godsend. Guns don't kill people. The justice system protects the powerless from the powerful. TV news tells the truth. America always acts internationally out of benign motives. Gay marriage is destroying the family. The war on terror is making us safer. The bible is the literal word of god. The policeman is our friend. The liberal media is poisoning this country with secular humanist lies. Brown people are disposable. Global climate change is a leftist fantasy. Evolution is just another a creation myth. Socialized medicine is evil. Capitalism lifts all boats. The rich are rich because they're morally and intellectually superior.

And anybody who doesn't live by these axioms can just get the hell out of our devout christian nation. You know what happens when we let these counter-culture, gloom-and-doom, nay-saying, America-hating unpatriotic parasites distract us from our divinely directed mission as guardians of the free world?

Yup. The terrorists win.


wp


PS: It doesn't help that, statistically, three out of every 10 people around you at any given time are religiously insane.

[Slagathor]

133. I'm pretty sure more than 20% of the public is stupid (nt)

[Ellen Forradalom]

136. On the bright side, that means bright prospects for my friend's career

as a Ptolemy expert.

[The Straight Story]

139. I read more online daily now than I did books when I was younger

More up to the minute, more info, and I can read a lot of books online as well.

I may not be getting as many books, but I am reading a lot more :)

[opihimoimoi]

147. The real Confirmation was when Bush got into office the way he did...mind boggling

Leave no child behind??? My ASS...

[Marr]

152. And *that* is why the US is so religious, in comparison to other developed nations.

People often ask why the US is so religious. I've heard plenty of charitable explanations, but I think this study touches on the real reason; our strong anti-intellectual streak makes us more vulnerable to magical thinking.

If you don't even know where you are on the globe, or where the planet is in the solar system, why wouldn't you believe everything a religious leader tells you? How are you to know just how patently ridiculous his stories are?

The whole thing is self-perpetuating, as children are raised to believe that belief in the face of contradictory evidence not just acceptable, but virtuous.

[hyphenate]

153. There is a disproportionate

amount of people who don't believe in evolution, either. We have to wonder about the education we are offering the country's children if they can't accept science and technology--there is little wonder why so many countries are not only overtaking us by leaps and bounds, but winning Nobel prizes and other international accolades. If we can't turn around this disturbing trend, we will not only be last in terms of scientific and mathematical advancement, but showing devolution can be accomplished with little to no effort at all. Throw in the religious right and their scourge of ignorance, and we have the perfect conditions for jingoistic ignominy. We are already the laughing stock of the large nations, to be the target of lesser nations' humor is just a step away.

[nonconformist]

155. 80% of families did not buy or read a book in 2006???

That's some sad shit right there.

[opihimoimoi]

157. I think its more like 85%..and if we talking serious books...not pulp fic...90%