Is prostitution still illegal?

[proud2BlibKansan]

If it is, Spitzer is up the proverbial creek. It makes no difference whether or not he was targeted. He BROKE THE LAW. End of story.

[RB TexLa]

1. Many people have broken the law and chose to fight and retained their positions

and jobs.

[asthmaticeog]

2. Amazing how all the equivocating misses that very simple, salient point, huh?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Yes it really isn't all that complicated

[EFerrari]

36. Except, you miss the salient point of political prosecution.

You've "simplified" that whole goal out of the equation.

The Bush Justice Department had two mandates. Going after "voter fraud" which doesn't exist and is cover for Bush sponsored election fraud. And, "public corruption" which means trying to find shit on Democrats. That's illegal, whether Democrats commit crimes or not.

[MADem]

3. Not in parts of Nevada...but he wasn't IN Nevada. nt

[EFerrari]

4. Well, not really. If it can be shown that he was selectively investigated

and prosecuted.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. But did he or did he not hire a prostitute?

If he did, he got caught.

I don't understand why it matters if he was selectively prosecuted. If he broke the law, he broke the law.

His bank turned him in for large cash withdrawls. How is that selective?

[EFerrari]

18. Because those are two different issues.

One is, did he commit a crime?

The other is, did the Bush Justice Department go on a political fishing trip.

The answer is probably "yes" to both but they don't collapse to only his crime. The Justice Department is also guilty.

And as far as the money goes, banks don't go looking for such small funds. I bet you the pizza of your choice, we'll find out that this cover story is bs. Or else, they'd be investigating me, too.

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. Yes they do. Every day...even before Bush they were using the SAR.

Most of the SARs we filed were for amounts under $5,000. I find nothing suspicious especially when I found out all of the transactions were to one place/QAT

On edit:

http://www.fincen.gov/reg_bsaforms.html#SAR

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. What does the law say?

Aren't banks required to report withdrawls over a certain amount? I know when my mom died and we were transferring funds from her accounts to settle her estate, the banks were very busy filling out paperwork. And checks took forever to clear. Much longer than usual.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. The law is that when an amount is over $10,000 a CTR must be filed.

A Currency Transaction Report is filed with the IRS and investigated, or not. When the bank finds suspicious behavior under (this is the important part) $10,000 they will file what is called an SAR (Suspicious Transaction Report) detailing the nature of the transaction and the customer. This is then forwared to FINcen (http://www.fincen.gov/reg_main.html). If a transaction is suspicious enough, a transaction of $5,000 or less ( I am guessing, int his case, it was the frequency and number) will be reported. FINcen (the Feds) investigate all of these reports. Most are found to be nothing much and I am sure they were not expecting to find what they found on Spitzer.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. We had several transactions under $10K when we settled my mom's estate

It was interesting that a check for tens of thousands of dollars cleared long before one for $3000. I asked the bank what was going on. They said they had to report any large deposit. I asked how large and they wouldn't tell me. It was creepy. My sister said it felt like they thought we were laundering money or depositing money from an illegal act. LOL

[Critters2]

58. The amount is $10,000. I've known several seniors who wanted to give

gifts to grandkids or other relatives, and broke them into smaller amounts, to avoid this hassle.

[xultar]

5. It isn't a felony is it? Why lose your job over a misdemeanor?

[slackmaster]

7. I'd lose mine over a misdemeanor if it reflected on my honesty and integrity

And I have a lot less accountability than the governor of a state.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. He (stupidly) arranged...

for the transport of a hooker from NY to DC -- that makes it a federal case, thanks to the Mann Act of 1910, iirc.

[xultar]

16. No hookers in DC want to deal with his ugly ass. What an IDIOT.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. I was wrong, about the Mann act.

But I still think that grown women can do whatever the fuck they want.

EDITED ORIGINAL POST

[goodluckguys75]

15. because he based his career on standing for law and order

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. I have no idea whether it is a felony or a misdemeanor

Honestly I don't think I have enough information to say he should or should not step down. I just believe that if he is guilty, we should all stop apologizing for him and claiming he was targeted.

[EFerrari]

33. But the thing is, it's likely that both are true.

He's guilty as hell AND the evidence is, he was targeted.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. What ever happened to Vitter?

Was he ever charged with a crime?

[EFerrari]

46. It looks like there's no political machine trying to take him down. n/t

[nels25]

19. Not going to be in trouble because of a misdemeanor?

According to what I have been reading and listening to.

Gov. Spitzer could be nailed with the Mann Act and money laundering which are felony's on the federal level.

He could be arrested if he goes back to DC for hiring a prostitute (that one may be a misdemeanor).

In addition if any of the 15k he is supposed to have used came in any way from NY state funds he could be looking at state felony charges, ditto if he some how misused his state police security detail.

There is a lot more here for him to get in load of sh&* than just boinking a prostitute.

:hi:

[Matariki]

30. In this case it is a felony.

Something to do with crossing state lines.

[Critters2]

51. And a federal one at that.

Transported a human being across state lines for illicit purposes. Violation of the Mann Act of 1910.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. I don't think prostitution is a federal crime. Otherwise, it couldn't be legal in Nevada.

[EFerrari]

8. You're right. The Federal crime is being a Democrat. n/t

[SteppingRazor]

11. The federal crime here is the Mann Act.

It is against federal law to transport a woman across state lines for "immoral purposes."

[EFerrari]

21. It's also a crime for the Justice Department to selectively target

the administration's political opponents. :shrug:

[SteppingRazor]

25. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying, that's the law they're using. n/t

[EFerrari]

27. Oh, sure. But the selectivity is illegal. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

28. So how do Nevada brothels get around hiring women from other states?

[SteppingRazor]

31. I'm not sure exactly.

I imagine those woman are quietly told to move to Nevada, get a Nevada driver's license, and then come see the brothel again. But that's just the first thing that popped into my head.

[EFerrari]

35. Rove can't turn a blue state by going after them. n/t

[Critters2]

53. If the women come of their own free will, and there's no payment made

for the transportation itself (by the brothel) it's not a violation. Spitzer arranged with the brothel for this call girl to travel, as part of the illegal act. If she just happened to be in DC, or lived there, it wouldn't have been a Mann Act issue. BUt the madame arranged for her transportation as per Spitzer's request.

Apparently, there aren't any suitable prositutes in DC.

[lapfog_1]

12. Yes, what he did is a federal crime

prostitution is not. Interstate transportation for immoral purposes IS.

It's called the "Mann Act"... still on the books... horrible law. Wiki it.

[Deep13]

13. Thanks for another absolutist, beyond debate pronouncement.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

23. I don't think the OP is off in any way.

That's the frame we're being sold in the press. And, if you think about it, it comports with our values.

If the guy did the crime, well, he needs to take the consequences.

That's right.

But what the Republicans get to hide is that they were working to find something on him via the Justice Department -- which is also a crime.

Most of us aren't used to the idea that the effen JUSTICE Department can be used in this political way.

:shrug:

[Breeze54]

20. I doubt he'll be prosecuted at all.

I doubt it.

[Hissyspit]

26. It does make a difference whether he was targeted or not.

There are ethics and rules concerning selective political prosecution. (This is the Bush administration we are talking about.)

Frankly, I think it is ridiculous that prostitution is illegal.

[EFerrari]

29. If one Democrat and four Republicans commit the same offense

and only the one Democrat is prosecuted, we have a problem.

We have a problem.

[Hissyspit]

37. See Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2992323&mesg_id=2992323

Larisa Alexandrovna:

Spitzer's Selective Prosecution

If you go on to read the article you will find that the movement of money was OUT of Spitzer's accounts, not IN. How can this be suspected bribery? Apparently I am not the only one to try to make this circle fit into a square container:

- snip -

How did Senator David Vitter (Republican) pay for his hookers in New Orleans and DC and why is he not being charged with anything? Why is no one demanding that he resign?

The timing of this whole thing bothers me as well. Consider that more and more evidence is amounting with regard to Karl Rove's involvement in Alabama and the imprisonment of Don Siegelman. The mainstream news actually began to finally pick this up. Now, as though by magic and even though this investigation has gone on for a year, Spitzer is suddenly indicted. I am not an attorney, but can someone explain to me what it is that I am missing here that would account for this strange series of events?

Ultimately, however, all of this doubt really does reflect the amount of damage the Bush administration has done to the Department of Justice. No matter what the allegations or even confessions are, I no longer have faith in our DOJ and I imagine I am not alone in this. That is the real scandal of all of this. Don't you think?

Update:

I realized reading over my posts that I sound like I am defending Spitzer. I am not and ONLY not because he prosecuted prostitution cases in the past and rather vocally too. That hypocrisy is why I am not remotely defending Spitzer's choice of entertainment. What I am defending, however, is the right of all Americans to feel that they are not political targets, investigated illegally until some wrong-doing is finally located that can be used against them. Nor should Americans feel that because they belong to a political party they are above the law.

Spitzer's sexual activities really only affect his relationship with his wife and family. They only affect us if those relationships are illegal, which in this case it appears to be so. But to target and investigate someone in hopes of finding something illegal is also illegal. I am not comfortable right now that Spitzer was legally investigated, despite the allegations of what he was actually caught doing and the fact that it was a criminal activity.

MORE AT THE LINK

[EFerrari]

38. Got it. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. I agree it is ridiculous that prostitution is illegal

But it is.

So is smoking pot. Another ridiculous law.

[guitar man]

32. why is he up a creek?

I mean, all he has to do is just refuse to quit and if he's issued a subponea, just ignore it, right?


:sarcasm:

[aikoaiko]

34. The solicitation of prostitution may be the least of the charges in terms of level of crime.

The money issues may be felonious.

[Critters2]

56. It's the Mann Act violation that's gonna really bite him. nt

[damntexdem]

41. Is lying us into war still illegal?

Is authorizing illegal wiretaps still illegal? Is illegally giving customer data to the U.S. government still illegal?

Is firing U.S. attorneys for political reasons still illegal?

[RC]

43. Of course not silly.

Not when Republicans do that.

[KharmaTrain]

47. If He Violated The Mann Act, It's A Federal Crime

Again...it's not the sex, it's the paying for the transportation and the crossing of state lines. Once that happens, it becomes a "federal issue"...a law that not only Spitzer knew well, but wouldn't have hesitate to prosecute.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. How often do they prosecute anyone for violating the Mann Act?

[Thepricebreaker]

49. How often do they kill people for treason? Who cares - its still the law.. ugh the spin here!

[KharmaTrain]

54. Ever Heard Of Jack Johnson? Chuck Berry?

Johnson was the heavyweight champion 100 years ago...both got nailed on this law. I'm sure others have been caught on it as well...it's a well known statue...and Spitzer, of all people, knew it. Even, for shits and giggles, lets say this is an old law that no one pays attention to, it's still a law and it appears to have been broken. Want things to change, change the laws.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I agree with you about Spitzer

I just think there is more to this story.

[KharmaTrain]

59. There Always Is...

While there may be some partisan help in speeding this along, from what I've read so far, it seems Spitzer was his own worst enemy. I agree that there's more to what happened here and it may get uglier for him before its over, but the fact he never denied the charges says he knew he got caught.

While I think I can understand the intoxication that drives this type of person, I could never understand the self-destructive nature I've seen play out time and time again.

Cheers...

[Canuckistanian]

50. Why doesn't "money=free speech" apply here?

Now, before anyone points out that prostitution is NOT ALWAYS a VOLUNTARY activity - why not legalize it, licence it and have collective bargaining for it?

After all, it would seriously impede the illegal and unwilling participants, while improving the living conditions for those mature and aware people who DO choose it willingly?

Ah, forget it.

[citizen snips]

52. ok let him serve his petty misdemeanor so he can go back to being governor.

although he has not yet found guilty in the court of law.

[Critters2]

55. It's a federal felony. And being an attorney, he knew that when he did it.

Assuming he did it. Whether it should be isn't the issue. It is, and he knew it. He screwed himself. Along with that prostitute.