U.S. learns Iraq's army can't cut it

[Botany]

"There is no empirical evidence that the Iraqi forces can stand up" on their own, a senior U.S. military official in Washington said, reflecting the frustration of some at the Pentagon.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2008/04/02/Iraq_offensive_MCT.ART_ART_04-02-08_A3_0D9QEPF.html?type=rss&cat=&sid=101

Surprise effectiveness of militants' drive likely takes troop pullouts off the table
Wednesday, April 2, 2008 3:02 AM
By Warren P. Strobel and Nancy A. Youssef
McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration was caught off-guard by the first Iraqi-led military offensive since the fall of Saddam Hussein, a weeklong thrust in southern Iraq whose paltry results have silenced talk at the Pentagon of further U.S. troop withdrawals any time soon.
President Bush last week declared the offensive, which ended Sunday, "a defining moment" in Iraq's history.

That might prove to be true, but in recent days senior U.S. officials have backed away from the operation, which ended with Shiite militias still in place in Basra, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki possibly weakened and a de facto cease-fire brokered by an Iranian general

[HowHasItComeToThis]

1. THE REAL PROLEM IS DESIRE

[Selatius]

2. Vietnamization has failed.

We will leave Iraq in the end. When we do, the puppet government in Baghdad will eventually be overrun by militias hostile to the government. It will look like Saigon 1975 again.

[angstlessk]

4. heck, based on how they are bombing the green zone..even that type of rescue

would be risky...the helicopter would have to be under a bunker and the the people climbing down stairs and not up??

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. You can't take off in that way

We will fight our way out... and I pitty the poor fools with that mission...

[vickitulsa]

5. Oh man does that photo evoke memories!

And they're not good ones!

BushCo has their "Quagmire Accomplished," so the logical end to the thing will be yet another humiliating exit amid lots of sorry-assed excuses and blaming of others.

Seems to me we heard an awful lot of talk from the U.S. military back then about how the Arvins (ARVN, the South Vietnam army) would drop their guns and run when they encountered Charlie (Viet Cong) or even sometimes the NVA (North Vietnamese Army regulars). "Nathaniel Victor" was apparently much more hardened and willing to die than most Arvins were, though I have heard some Namvets praise certain ARVN troops as well.

But what ultimately does make the difference in how the locals and nationals in a wartorn country react and whether citizens can reasonably step up to re-organize their country successfully after a massive invasion and occupation? The level of corruption that the U.S. occupation of Iraq has brought with it seems destined to further such practices in those purporting to "lead" their own country in the wake of U.S. intervention and destruction of their culture.

Perhaps their culture isn't so much "destroyed" as it has been warped, first by 30 years of Saddam-style oppression and corruption, then by the war and the U.S. military oppression and the concommitant corruption that's been so rampant there.

Our guys began their missions there by handing out billions in untrackable cash to Iraqis we supposedly trusted and thought would make good allies supporting U.S. policies and favoring our interests. No one ever even tried to keep track of what happened to all those billions running through the hands of the likes of Chalabi, and there has been plenty more filthy lucre changing hands ever since -- behind the scenes, of course. I suspect there is a huge underground there now where people try to deal with such a nightmare state the U.S. has created.

There is a big difference in Iraq, though, as opposed to how it ended with a whimper in Vietnam. The U.S. rulers will NOT want to see Iraq "go dark" to them again and see their puppets sent to "re-education" camps, while radical, hostile tribal types take the country straight back to the eighth century. In Vietnam, everyone was so sick of the place it seemed we were glad enough to just pull out and let the commies have it. I can't see how our "American royalty" would want that to happen in the Oil Patch of the Middle East and Arabia....

[Muttocracy]

3. Lots of info coming out in Senate FRC hearings this week... nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. THey have not learned from history, have they?

Ghurkas were (and are) especially good when NOT fighting their own people. Wanna bet these boys would be far better if involved in a colonial occupation on the other side of the World?

Rome knew that, so did the brits...

Damn beginners running an empire we've got here.

[Breeze54]

8. 'Can't' or won't?

:shrug:

Did you see 'Voodoo Wars' on PBS the other night?