What happened to the right to say NO?

[undergroundpanther]

Child Development:
It is no coincidence that the first appearance of life-long memory and abstract self-recognition ("ego") comes in the third year, right after the discovery and common fascination with the word "no". I am not-you, not-that, not-it are essential foundations of self.

Civilization Development:
Tribal peoples, even as recently as modern Japanese, almost always identify themselves in relational and historical terms: son-of-that-one, father-of-that-one, keeper of this-item, hunter-of that-game, weaver-of- that-fabric, etc. But in the West we habitually refer to ourselves as "I", unqualified, and for very good reason: through that word we reserve the right to identify ourselves as individuals with choice and identity outside all roles and history. The very foundation of "I" is "no": I am _not_ my history,not my job, not your ideas about my history, not even my own ideas about my history.

Conclusion:
Both in theory ("we know you best", "for your own good" etc.) and in practice (frequent de facto mandatory drugging and commitment) psychiatry denies this word "no". Psychiatry and its industry demolish the foundations of healthy being while claiming the opposite. A legal definition of the right (of both parties) to say "no" is absolutely essential to ethical psychiatry.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/327/7429/1449#45881

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It's not just psychiatry that has this problem, it is our culture and civilization, this way of life we have to live that has this problem and perpetuates it.
A legal definition of the right (of both parties) to say "no" is absolutely essential to an ethical SOCIETY!.

This ethical problem is best illustrated by American soldiers signing up for the military because they cannot get work,or decent pay, going to another country ,burning a village down,bombing a town or conquering their "hearts and minds" and not being clear as to WHY they are being demanded to do this..This power grabbing by authorities and using the soldiers as hired guns is denying the other the right to BE and to refuse the offer of being dominated and getting their resources extracted(stolen) and people traumatized by another country. The lame excuses for such domination like fighting terrorism",removing a dictator, or to bring "democracy" ..Are euphemisms for bullying and forcing to submit.

When direct or indirect rationalizations of that kind of authoritarian abuse of power and force is seen as OK,"normal" or even "necessary",that means our society is made coercive by it's distorted hierarchical "nature".
A coercive culture is not FREE when it privileges some and denies others,the right to say NO, or as retaliation for refusal dxenies them the means to survive.

The FORCE behind coercion more visible to those subjected to double standards,usually people presented culturally as inferiors as determined by the dominant class. Be they minorities,poor,immigrants,prisoners, disabled,crazy, cultural deviants,young,rebellious,radical,weird,dangerous,unattractive or any people getting in the way of what the dominant class wants.
Our society has an issue with people saying NO to requests and demands made upon them by authorities..

This means our society is uncomfortable with having real freedom,fairness and responsibility..and the people do not respect or understand what freedom IS and MEANS and REQUIRES from each of us,to co exist in a negotiable peace and fairness that is mutually beneficial to all..

Freedom is GONE..When people are not allowed to say NO and cannot refuse a request,a demand ,an expectation,or make a contract with another party and change it to make it beneficial to them.

(Ever read a cell phone contract?,Even through the legalese it is clear you have no choices.Once you sign up, you must obey and pay whatever they say. This is written all over it.The phone company is making demands and reserving rights for itself at YOUR expense,it is a list of obligations,NOT a true Contract...because you cannot negotiate it's terms with the company at all.)

The involuntary coercion runs so deep, it fears people using the word NO, I do not want______.It fears demand for mutual contracting,i.e freedom of decision and choice for all parties involved..

Look at each examples of these NO statements and add in the (or else) society would imply if you refused the demand,really.

NO,I do not want to work for you.
No I will not pay taxes if that is what it is used for.
NO,I don't want to sign up for"selective service"
NO,I do not want to pay that much for that.
NO,I will not let__get away with it.
NO,You are not welcome here.
NO,You cannot come in.
NO,You cannot stop by later.
NO You cannot call me on my phone.
NO,I don't want to spend a few minutes of my time....
NO,I will not back down.
NO,I will not be restrained because of 'protocol'.
NO,I do not want to pay attention to you.
NO,I do not want to live that way.
NO,I do not desire that.
NO,I do not want to talk,act,dress,behave,believe or be like you because you demand I do it or everyone else thinks it's normal or good to do it.
NO,I don't want to look at you.
NO,I do not want to tolerate being abused, bullied harassed coerced or forced because others can 'hack it' or have 'thicker skins'.
NO,I do not want to subscribe or get the package 'deal'.
NO,I will not submit,obey or comply with those demands.
NO,I will not stay here.
NO,I will not move along.
NO,I do not want to change.
NO,I will not stay this way.
NO,I will not stop creating,writing drawing,etc. just because you are offended.( being offended is an aesthetic dislike it is not the same thing as being HURT btw.)
NO,I will not shut up.
NO,I will not be nice/appropriate to abusers.
NO,I won't go along with you or your ideas/plans/schemes/ policies.
NO,I am not interested.
NO,I will not believe you or believe what you call truth..
NO,I will not"try it" because you asked or demanded I try it.
NO,I will not "open my mind" or try it because "I never tried it before" or you think I might end up "liking it".
NO,I will not shut down my own feelings/emotional expressions.
NO,I disagree.
NO,I do not want to take that medication.
NO,I do not want to give out that information.

In our tamed lives we are taught from cradle to grave to be helpless.Immersed in a world of force in the face of demands of others on many levels it shapes what we see and do not see when looking at a problem...This is because we are used to being constantly coerced involuntarily to do it____ way(or else).Often the coercion comes from an authority figure,parent,church,workplace,bully,corporation"policy,teachers and a grading system,the illusion of"ownership",the marketplace,the system,the government.

Many more sources of involuntary coercive demands impacts everyone in this culture still issuing demands we comply with them everyday..So much coercion is done against our wills, so often,we are not used to not having a chance to say no,because the coercion has become invisible and normalized. We just DO it.

We do not stop to think do we WANT or NOT?
Often the nature of the demand is such we are not even allowed time to consider WHY we would want or not for ourself.
There is a lot of involuntary coercion that goes on day-to day that isn't about co existing with other people in peace in this society.

Some coercion is involuntary per se, because it comes from the fact we co-exist in a world with others,and that kind of coercion is usually two sided and negotiable.It is contractual and mutual it can be changed it allows room for choice making..


The involuntary coercion that robs us of freedom is neither mutual or amendable. Our culture is rife with involuntary coercion. The effects of this habitual disallowing of us to say NO effects US.
With no way to say NO,a demand denies our freedom to find out who we are,what we want,what we prefer, to BE ourselves and make our own decisions for ourselves because coercion creates the appearance there are no other really viable alternatives to choose from,and you can't make a new one yourself, because it is basically disguised FORCE..When the right to say No is denied us,by force, however accommodating,deceptive, and manipulating it appears still,our freedom is denied us by force. When freedom to opt out,refuse,say NO,is denied us..so is peace,exploration,risk,diversity,creativity,expressiveness,will, effecting changes in our lives and community,and true empowered self actualization as well.
We never become true adults.We never become a people both equal and unique, because we are not permitted to decide,risk,negotiate,or innovate anything about the social 'contract' that is not really a contract anymore once the freedom to say NO is gone,and the corporate empire decides everything for us and leaves us illusory consumer "choices".

Think about all the times we are denied the right to refuse? It's staggering how much we are coerced into things we would rather not...if you stop and think about it.

[Greyhound]

1. Hear, hear! Thank you.

:kick: & R

[Warpy]

2. Civil disobedience

is the simple act of taking back the right to say "NO!" to things we know to be dead wrong, whether they're nanny state drug laws or laws that restrict our freedom to assemble and voice our political opinions.

Civil disobedience is our first and best weapon against the would-be aristocracy in this country who want to destroy everything this country has ever stood for.

It's high time we rediscover it. K&R.

[darkmaestro019]

3. K and R

I can't remember if it's Voltaire or one of those things his friends said that gets attributed to him but I have always liked "The only freedom we have is the freedom to say no."

Can we get one more rec? This belongs on the front page. Pretty please?

[earth mom]

4. K & R.

I've been saying NO on this forum and people don't like it.

They'd rather settle for less which blows my mind.

Sorry, NO CAN DO.

[angrycarpenter]

5. I have said no and suffered for it

Saying no carries the treat of retaliation. I have cut-off my nose to spite my face so many times over the years just for the sake of not being pushed around.

I am a contrary individual and the word "no" is never far from my lips. It has cost me jobs and relationships.

I work very hard in the sun every day, I rent a run-down house trailer, I drive a 16 year-old car. My life would be materially better had I learned to kiss ass and play the game but that word keeps jumping out when I am pushed.

It sounds like I regret being an ornery cuss but I do not. I only regret the times that I should have said no and didn't.

[windoe]

6. Having a clear sense of identity

means having clear boundaries and knowing where you leave off and others begin (my childhood life lesson), but as a society we have a collective identity also that has been infringed upon in gradual and subtle ways and now we find ourselves having to reassert our identity and identities.

Tyranny attempts to force people to give up their autonomy and it is interesting to see how long it takes for different people to get that and begin to say NO. It is indeed a good time and perfectly natural for people to look in the mirror and reinforce their own personal and collective space, in fact I believe it is crucial to never lose sight of this.

Remembering a video interview of Alduous Huxley warning about a future where the group is made out to be more important than the individual, and this has certainly come to pass.


:hi: interesting times indeeed