In your opinion was Bruce E. Ivins the anthrax mailer?

[arcadian]

Poll question: In your opinion was Bruce E. Ivins the anthrax mailer?

[cayuga]

1. His death was more about his vaccine.

Military members were vaccinated with a timebomb courtesy of the government. He was just one of those responsible.

[sellitman]

2. The bushies are responsible.

I believe it 100%

[LeighAnn]

3. The guy was murdered like Cliff Baxter, David Kelly, etc

I am convinced of it. Read my blog post about the murder of Bruce Ivins

http://www.leighannlittle.com

[alarimer]

4. He killed himself because he was guilty.

If he wasn't guilty then why would he do that?

[burythehatchet]

15. WARNING: Logic shortcircuit!

[NightWatcher]

5. his was a classic "suicide op". He was squeezed till he popped

His neighbors say that they knew that he was under surveillance because they parked the SV's in front of their houses.

His was a classic "suicide op" in which the subject is surveilled OVERTLY. He is harrassed until it drives him crazy. He is threatened with jail and prosecution like the Sword of Damacles was hanging over his head. He is "reminded" that if he goes to jail (and/or is executed) that his family will not receive any of his pension, insurance, retirement..... While his suicide probably voided any private insurance, his family will still not get benefits from the government.

Agents had reached his therapist and were getting the evidence to discredit his name and any defense that he might wage against the charges he was being threatened with. He was also being prepped for discreditation in the event that he turned "whistle blower".

His "suicide" was an excellent Operation by those who either were responsible for the original anthrax or who wanted to make the story go away by putting the blame on him.


fwiw, I used to work in the "discrediting" field many years ago and have seen this done a few times.

[yardwork]

8. So, he actually was tortured to death.

The FBI used the same psy-ops approach that the CIA and mercenaries are using in Gitmo and other prisons.

[LeighAnn]

10. You watch... his family will end up getting a hefty settlement

When the government is forced to pay up for this post-mortem character assassination, it will make the settlement paid to Steven Hatfill seem like a pittance in comparison.

[arcadian]

13. I got the impression that his brother was homeless.

They described his brother as "estranged" and then in he interview with the brother, he said the autorities "bought him a beer and a sandwich".

[KharmaTrain]

6. A Question About Those Letters...

Something is nagging at me...if he wrote the letters, isn't there a handwriting sample available that would verify if it was his hand or not? Also, working in a high security facility, one would imagine his movements in and out would have been monitored and documented. Was he "checked in" on the dates the letters were mailed...especially within hours of the letter being postmarked. There are a lot of pieces missing here that shouldn't be that difficult to document..

[defendandprotect]

14. I don't recall where the letters were posted from vs where this military lab is ...

or vs where any suspect might live ---

[arcadian]

16. Princeton, NJ

From a street mailbox

[defendandprotect]

19. OK . . . so obviously either Princeton or NJ would require more time than ., . .

just going outside for a quick juggle --- ?

These would be NOTICEABLE absences . . .

[KharmaTrain]

17. I Recall...

They were mailed from a small town in New Jersey. Not hard for him to hop on the train or hop up 95 to get there...but again, there's two more ways they could hae tracked him. Again...it'e early and maybe we'll get some of these answers.

[sojourner]

7. i am always suspicious when there's a high profile "suicide"...

---- especially when there's no need for an autopsy ---- and i really don't like the lovely simplicity of the evidenciary (is that a word?) logic:

he worked with the anthrax
he was "homicidal"
he was a "suspect"
he killed himself, case closed bc he MUST be guilty otherwise why would he do that?

[defendandprotect]

20. Right . .. whereas all that civilians friends, co-workers are saying point the other way ---

None of this is holding water --- IMO.

And, it looks like including the last call to his house --- there had been TWO prior

calls where he was in some kind of difficulty --- unconscious or unresponsive?


Was the guy being attacked --- intruders?

[yardwork]

9. I think that the answer may be that he wasn't the mailer but was in on the conspiracy

and was then framed up until he killed himself so that the government could say that the case is closed.

Meanwhile, the master minds of this false flag operation get away clean. Another day, another dirty dollar for Cheney.

[defendandprotect]

21. I don't see any evidence that Ivins was involved . . . .

he may have had some evidence against someone else ---

he may have had some suspicions ---

he may have had some info which worked against their theories --

but I don't see him as involved ---

But --- someone did it for Cheney/Bush --- that's for sure!

[UTUSN]

11. Whether "all" or "in part" he was carrying out the CHEENEE agenda. n/t

[defendandprotect]

12. Look at this new report from AP writers . . . !!!!!!

Suicide latest twist in 7-year anthrax saga By MATT APUZZO and LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writers
41 minutes ago

suddenly emerged after seven years
brilliant but troubled Army scientist
released the anthrax to test his cure for the toxin
Ivans emergence as the top - and perhaps only - suspect came soon after
the government exonnerated another Army scientist, Steven Hatfill -- and paid him $5.8 million

FBI promises "more info soon"
"Amerithrax" - and a new label appears - while they decided whether to CLOSE the investigation
now that its main target is dead.

Ivans worked for the government for 35 years with highest honors from the Pentagon . . .
working on biological weapons . . . was he not?

and they now reveal that in all that time he ---

"Client has a history dating to his graduate days of homicidal threats, plans and actions towards therapists," Duley said, adding that his psychiatrist had described him as homicidal and sociopathic."

Just who would believe this . . . ?


"Among the biggest unanswered questions is what led the FBI to Ivins after all these years. Ivins attracted some attention for conducting unauthorized anthrax testing in the six months following the anthrax mailings, but the FBI focus stayed on Hatfill."

Maybe I misread what happened here, but wasn't this a case of his co-worker being concerned that the Anthrax "letters" she was testing were LEAKING into the atmosphere where she was working?
Was he not assisting her?

The department attributed the progress to "new and sophisticated scientific tools."

Annd more advancements . . . which produce nothing?
"Investigators said the science focused, in part, on how the anthrax strains were handled and who had access to it at the time of the mailings. Had the same process been used years ago, it would have cleared Hatfill, according to two people familiar with the FBI investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is not officially closed."

Documents related to the investigation remain sealed.

"For 35 years, Ivins was one of the government's leading scientists researching vaccines and cures for anthrax exposure, work that earned him the Pentagon's highest honor for civilian employees.

His research included one study that complained about the limits of testing anthrax drugs on animals. Eighteen months before the anthrax letters were sent, Ivins and other scientists applied for a patent for their anthrax vaccine."

And here we seem to be getting the build up . . .

Ivins' friends, colleagues and court documents paint a picture of a flourishing scientist with an emotionally unstable side. Maryland court documents show he recently received psychiatric treatment and was ordered to stay away from a woman he was accused of stalking and threatening to kill.

Social worker Jean C. Duley filed handwritten court documents last week saying she was preparing to testify before a grand jury. She said Ivins would be charged with five capital murders.

"Client has a history dating to his graduate days of homicidal threats, plans and actions towards therapists," Duley said, adding that his psychiatrist had described him as homicidal and sociopathic."

Meanwhile. . .

QUOTE:Ivins' lawyer, Paul F. Kemp, asserted the scientist's innocence and said he had cooperated with investigators for more than a year.

"We are saddened by his death, and disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to defend his good name and reputation in a court of law," Kemp said.

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital in Maryland. Relatives told The Associated Press that he killed himself. Kemp said his client's death was the result of the government's "relentless pressure of accusation and innuendo." UNQUOTE


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080802/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/anthrax_scientist

[windbreeze]

18. How many microbiologists have we lost in the last few years to

strange circumstances...Ivins was just one more to add to the list...Here all along I thought they had video of someone named Philip Zack, leaving the lab with anthrax...like all else that's taken place under this admin...we will never know the truth of this one...just that our gov't was very obviously to blame...wb

[defendandprotect]

22. Stealing nukes . .. . stealing Anthrax . . . suicides all over . . .

and the trail always seems to lead back to Cheney/Bush ---