Shooting raises question: Is it safe to be a liberal in America?

[tannybogus]

National, and even international, coverage of the shootings at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Church turned late this week into a discussion into whether it's safe in America to be a liberal.

"One of the biggest contemporary ironies is that being liberal in the United States of America, home of history's greatest democracy, has become dangerous. That danger is particularly acute for religious liberals, as the recent tragedy in Knoxville demonstrated," Bill Maxwell wrote in the St. Petersburg Times.

Ian Williams, writing in The Guardian in London, said "Jim Adkisson, a Tennessee aficionado of conservative talkshows, took their hosts' invective all too literally and shot up a 'liberal' Unitarian Universalist congregation, killing two and wounding six congregants watching a children's musical. Caught up in a world of conservative talk radio, he reportedly expected to be able to carry on shooting unimpeded by the spineless, gay-loving pacifists, and was surprised when they tackled him and brought him down."

The Miami Herald's Leonard Pitts: "No, conservatives did not cause this bloodbath. Jim Adkisson allegedly did. But in telling him 'liberals' were the source of his every disaffection and woe, conservatives certainly validated the hatred and madness that drove him.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/aug/02/shooting-raises-question-it-safe-be-liberal/

[Mojorabbit]

1. Well I am a liberal

and I am armed so I guess it comes out even in my case.

[TomInTib]

4. Same here.

Check your inbox later.

[Nay]

16. Same here. Will take at least 2 or 3 with me.

[2KS2KHonda]

9. Same here. Sadly, I see some people hereabouts claiming we're unfit to be Democrats.

But it's okay, we will still defend them if at all possible when the thugs invade their homes and threaten to rape their children.
:eyes:

[Union Thug]

12. yes, it is dangerous. I've retold one of my father's many stories

here - about being harassed by 'pukes and conservatives over the years - most recently during the 04 election in which this then nearly 70 year old pop of mine shot one guy in the face with a staple gun and punched the other square in the face after they accosted and threatened him for having a Kerry sticker on his car.

Then, if you want to talk about the all the shit taken over the years from these bottom feeding republicans over union activity we could write a book.

[TahitiNut]

13. It seems to me that being liberal IS to be armed.

I'm not talking "gun nuts" or Rambo shit ... I'm talking Bill of Rights and the individual citizen as sovereign over his own self-governance .... as a PARTICIPANT in his own democracy. When I speak of a universal military service obligation, the pseudo-liberals cry NIMBY ... as though there's ANY chance whatsoever that self-governance can be attained and maintained without full participation. There seems to be an "ivory tower" (condescending) kind of "liberalism" that loves to sneer at military service, loves to sneer at 'activists' and loves to sneer at anyone putting their ass on the line. The notion that "I'm better than that" is incompatible with being a liberal, imho.

I hate guns. A year in Viet Nam was more than enough. Nonetheless, I own one. A shotgun. I feel like I must. I've been to the shooting range in the last 7 years ... with a friend. I hated it but felt obliged to "keep my hand in." I DON'T regard it as "recreation" any more than wiping my own ass. Just the sound of gunfire causes me twists and churns deep in my gut. It stinks. It's necessary.

[AndyTiedye]

26. I Support Your Right to bear Arms. You Should Support My Right Not To

I am exercising my right NOT to bear arms. It is better that way.

"and he raised his trembly Webley"

It's not so much that I don't like guns. Guns don't like me.
I am a lousy shot. Practice doesn't help at all.
If I'm that bad shooting at targets in a zero-stress situation,
how much worse would I be when adrenaline is making me shake all over?
In a situation such as this one, and pretty much any other in a populated area,
there would be great risk of shooting innocent bystanders.

I shudder to think how it might go with a whole church full of reluctant and out-of-practice gun carriers
returning fire in the general direction of the gunman. They'd probably get him, but they might inflict
more casualties than he did.

[TomInTib]

33. Well put, TahitiNut.

The mere thought of having firearms in the house drove Crazy ex-Girlfriend up the wall.

So I got rid of her.

What are you going to do with that burglar, politely ask him to leave?

[AndyTiedye]

34. NO DRAFT!

When I speak of a universal military service obligation, the pseudo-liberals cry NIMBY ...

I don't think the draft should be happening in anybody's back yard.
If nobody wants to fight their war, end it.

as though there's ANY chance whatsoever that self-governance can be attained and maintained without full participation.

Being forced to go to war for Halliburton/Exxon or whatever corporation has bought the government this week is participation?
Seems like an overly narrow view to me.

The right NOT to go to war is one of the few we have left. Why are you so willing to give that up?
BushCheneyMcAint have far too much power over our lives already. Conscription makes that power absolute.

Beyond that, there is no way for such a thing to be fair. Even the most "universal" conscription cannot be fair.
Those with medical issues would be forced to serve anyway, or not, depending on their ability to pay doctors.
It is not fair to send the handicapped to certain death in the battlefield, nor is it fair to those who must serve with them.

The military is a "one size fits all" affair, which is absolutely brutal to those who do not exactly fit its mold.
The death of Jason Tharp at Parris Island comes to mind. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854/

The well-connected will always have places in "champagne units" waiting for their offspring, as was the case for our current pResident.

The result is that no matter how fair and egalitarian you would like the draft to be,
it will nonetheless turn into yet another way to reinforce existing privilege, just as it always has.

There seems to be an "ivory tower" (condescending) kind of "liberalism" that loves to sneer at military service,

I respect your military service. I think everybody does. The sneering comes when you want to force it on everybody else.

loves to sneer at 'activists'

Only the "gotta make things worse before they can get better" kind.

and loves to sneer at anyone putting their ass on the line.

Only if they want to drag others along at gunpoint.

The notion that "I'm better than that" is incompatible with being a liberal, imho.

Not better, just different. Understanding and respecting people's differences is one of the basic tenets of liberalism.
Not everybody can be turned into a soldier.

[TomInTib]

2. I will guarantee it.

I have personal experience to attest to the fact.

[shadowknows69]

5. I'm glad you two are on my side

B-)

[shadowknows69]

3. Is it still America if we need to be asking this question?

[stray cat]

6. It is not "safe" to be alive anyplace regardless of political persuasion.

[leftofthedial]

7. It hasn't been for over 100 years.

[mitchum]

8. Perhaps it means it is not safe to be an unarmed liberal?

The right wing have already had several "firing on Fort Sumter moments", yet sadly many on the left still refuse to see that this civil war is already happening.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AndyTiedye]

19. Bringing Shotguns to Church?

You think folks are gonna bring their 12-gauge shotguns to church?

[tularetom]

21. No but they had his shotgun didn't they?

[Ghost in the Machine]

22. No, the shooter had a shotgun... the liberals tackled him, which surprised him...

what the other poster was saying is imagine the shooter's surprise if they took HIS gun and shoved it up HIS ass...

Did that help clear it up any?

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. Heh heh - that Republican meme of liberals as "spineless gay loving pacifists" might come back

to bite them a hell of a lot more times.

[cali]

14. I don't know about America as a whole but yeah, it's safe to be a liberal in Vermont

You won't find many people who aren't.

[gratuitous]

15. Never has been, really

Simple to tell, too: Which radio personality gets gunned down in his driveway, Alan Berg or Rush Limbaugh? Which elected official gets shot at a rally, Bobby Kennedy or George W. Bush? Which reverend gets popped on a hotel balcony, Martin Luther King, Jr. or Jerry Falwell?

[justgamma]

17. The FBI are on top of things.

Oh wait, they're too busy spying on the Quakers and the peace movement.

[ColbertWatcher]

18. Good point. n/t

[madeline_con]

20. People will always flip out.

There will always be innocent victims.

The "Shooting raises question" only if you're a moran.

[alarimer]

23. And Rush Limbaugh etc aid and abet this sort of thing.

They should bear some responsibility.

[madeline_con]

24. We could publicly flay the fat fuck. n/t

[norepubsin08]

25. I disagree with Pitts

By bush and his right wing fundies control the airwaves...you have the dumb fuck ignorants of our population doing the rich fat cats dirty work. We need the fairness doctrine for the air waves, a break up of corporate owned newspapers and lobotomies for all the unthinking, mindless fundies and right wingers!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

27. oh please

two people are killed by a nutjob and now it's not safe to be liberal in America?

It's like the constant whining from Christians about how abused they are. It's ridiculous.

[Bright Eyes]

28. Safe or not, I refuse to be intimidated.

[TrogL]

29. It's not safe anywhere

You never know when a religious right wacko or authoritarian sociopath/psychopath is going to snap.

[baby_mouse]

30. It's never been "safe" to be liberal anywhere.

The creeps whose minds bubble up poison as if they were demonically possessed hate ALL ideology that would liberate humanity from its self-imposed and unnecessary prisons.

[old mark]

31. It has nearly always been unsafe to be a liberal to some degree,

depending on time and place.
We tend to piss people off, even each other, andsome right-right's see us as the devil him/her self.

I respect anyones right to be unarmed, but I have always felt that given the state of the right (armed, nuts, usually stupid and mostly drunk)
I would be armed and capable of defending myself.

Ironic that the rightists in the Supreme Court have recently confirmed the right of all - even us - to defend ourselves if necessary.

mark

[woo me with science]

32. This is silly and hysterical even for DU.

My guess is that every person who answered this post in a trembling affirmative will happily drive off to work today in a car plastered with Obama bumperstickers.

Sometimes I get really, really sick of the constant broad-brush demonization of the other here. It is truly the flip side of FreeRepublic.