Wind (Turbines) whips up health fears

[RamboLiberal]

I just thought there was a lack of empathy from some here on DU about a guy complaining about having to live near wind turbines on his families land. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3811991

I'm for wind power but they need to be located where they don't impact people on whose land they are going to sit or whose health mental and physical they will not impact. Let's make sure the right thing is done. And since I don't live under a wind turbine as I suspect most of us don't - I want to at least listen to these people and not label them whiner's for their complaints cause I would like to see us get more power from wind turbines.

BOARDMAN -- Sherry Eaton pulled into the driveway of her rural, high-desert home to see one of several giant wind turbines being assembled a half-mile away.

"I started to cry," Eaton, 57, recalled of her first sight of the Willow Creek Wind Project in late July. "They're going to be hanging over the back of our house, and now there's the medical thing."

"The medical thing" is new research suggesting that living close to wind turbines, as Eaton and her 60-year old husband, Mike, soon will be doing, can cause sleep disorders, difficulty with equilibrium, headaches, childhood "night terrors" and other health problems.

-----

Dr. Nina Pierpont of Malone, N.Y., coined the phrase "wind turbine syndrome" for what she says happens to some people living near wind energy farms. She has made the phrase part of the title of a book she's written called "Wind Turbine Syndrome: A Report on the Natural Experiment." It is scheduled for publication next month by K-Selected Press, of Santa Fe, N.M.

In contrast to those who consider wind turbines clean, green and an ideal source of renewable energy, Pierpont says living or working too close to them has a downside. Her research says wind turbines should never be built closer than two miles from homes.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1218250522129010.xml&coll=7

[Demeter]

1. Sell Out and Move

A God-given oportunity--take it!

I wouldn't live near train tracks, because I have and it's awful. So what is the big difficulty?

[RamboLiberal]

2. That's a stupid answer IMHO

Seen too much of that crap on other issues like transmission towers, or an industry that moves in and pollutes, long-wall mining in my area, etc.

I side with the property owner.

[SoCalDem]

3. The problem is that they have to go somewhere, and "out-there"

does not remain "out there" for very long, before civilization encroaches...just ask the wild critters about encroachment.

Transmission over long distances is an issue.. We apparently have not yet figured out how to generate elelctricity from wind , onsite...then store it, and transmit it from that point.. If that were the case, or if we figure it out, there are plenty of places not likely to be developed, that could be used.

[Sanctified]

5. Who is going to buy the house?

Putting Wind Turbines next to a house vastly diminishes the value of the home, they would probably be better off living under Giant Power Lines than Wind Turbines.

[Demeter]

33. The Wind Turbine People

[gateley]

4. Wind energy sounds so passive and calm and natural --

This brings up a good lesson that we do need to research the effects of all the alternative energy possibilities before we rush headlong into them. Look what happened when we depleted the land getting corn for biofuel.

I wonder if there are any non-harmful option available. :shrug:

[Xithras]

67. I've ridden my bike through the Altamont.

Wind tubines can be LOUD.

[gristy]

6. The power company should be buying out all homeowners within a certain distance

And, like it or not, given the national urgency of coming up with non-carbon-based ways of generating electricity, a couple laws will be needed to ensure that those homeowners are required to either sell or to refrain from all current and future litigation.

[dysfunctional press]

28. they do sometimes pay "nuisance fees"...

one article i read quoted $1000/month.

[kestrel91316]

7. Hypochondriacal NIMBYism???

:shrug:

If the good Doctor Pierpoint has verifiable scientific research that documents a problem with wind turbines, she would do well to publish it in Nature or another top (and refereed)journal rather than write a book and publish it with some obscure publisher.......I googled K-Selected Press and got nowhere. Perhaps she is self-publishing.

[RamboLiberal]

9. Here's her website FWIW

http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/

I've not done any deep research on this. I just didn't like the idea of DU'ers pooh-poohing w/o living in another person's shoes complaints about living near wind turbines.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

51. I think most people are complaining...

...about a made-up disease being pushed by a doctor who has no journal articles on the subject, publishing her "findings" using a made-up publisher. She is anti-wind energy. This has nothing to do with medicine or science: http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/?p=166

[Canuckistanian]

8. "Wind Turbine Syndrome?" Give me a fucking break

Low frequency vibrations? Are they kidding?

FACTORIES and POWER PLANTS have been emitting MUCH GREATER low-frequency noise for decades.

I'd check this author, RICHARD COCKLE and see if he's written many pro-petroleum articles. Or if he's accepted any "research money" from Exxon Mobil.

[Sanctified]

10. Unlike Wind Turbines factories and power plants are not located in residential areas. n/t

[RamboLiberal]

11. Do you live near wind turbines?

From what I'm reading they are akin to a jet turbine in noise.

[Junkdrawer]

15. Not Even Close...

Threshold of hearing 0
Rural night-time background 20-40
Quiet bedroom 35
Wind farm at 350m 35-45
Car at 40mph at 100m 55
Busy general office 60
Truck at 30mph at 100m 65
Pneumatic drill at 7m 95
Jet aircraft at 250m 105
Threshold of pain 140

http://www.bwea.com/ref/noise.html

[RamboLiberal]

20. Germans seem to think there is a problem with noise

see Junkdrawer's post below.

[Junkdrawer]

21. Ahem...I am Junkdrawer and my post was to show that the "noise problem"...

is no where NEAR the problem of jet noise and that the problem is easily solvable.

[RamboLiberal]

27. My brain fart - didn't look at the poster first

That's a good report from Germany you posted. I think the EU studies do prove at least to those who live near them there can be noise problems.

Is Noise from Wind Farms Louder Than Expected?
As might be expected respondents increasingly noticed the sound from the turbines as decibel levels increased: 25% at 30dB or less; 80% at 35dB or more. There was no difference in noise perception based on whether the project economically benefitted the respondent.

Perceived annoyance increased with decibel level: 2% at 30dB or less; 25% at 40-45dB. Interestingly, respondents receiving some sort of economic benefit from the project reported nearly no annoyance at any decibel level.

According to the authors’ press release, “Three out of four participants declare that swishing or lashing is the correct description of the sound from turbines. Perhaps the character of the sound is the cause of the relatively high degree of annoyance.”

Out of Sight Out of Mind
If respondents could see the turbine from their dwelling they were “far more likely” to perceive the turbine as annoying. Between 4-13% of respondents were “rather or very annoyed” by vibrations, the movements of rotor blades or their shadows.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/windfarm-noise-impact-study.php

The report: http://www.rug.nl/wewi/deWetenschapswinkels/natuurkunde/publicaties/WFp-final-1.pdf?as=pdf

[Sanctified]

25. Not to point out the obvious but that information is from Turbines from 14 years ago.

And it does not state what size the Turbines were. Plus that is rating the sound of turbines from almost a quarter of a mile away, not something that is 100 yards from your house.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. Only with the ones that actually do the blowing.

They are all in California.

The ones that do the generating are as quiet as a pinwheel.









Oh yeah....


:sarcasm:


"Akin to a jet turbine"

Give me a break.

[Canuckistanian]

24. I have a small wind turbine on my property

And if I'm outside, yes, I can hear it.

And I've visited a few large wind turbines. The noise was FAR from deafening.

[wtmusic]

38. Nonetheless

this is a problem that is not going away.

People move to remote locations for the experience of living in a natural surrounding. Creating significant amounts of energy will require windfarms which have a huge footprint -- not just the turbines but the transmission lines, access roads, etc. It's a footprint which means little to urban-dwelling advocates who don't have to deal with it.

[Lorien]

64. A good friend of mine lives near this:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_BvBpA3bwKuw/Rt4qojFWMEI/AAAAAAAACdo/m4_iHajgjGo/California07_Part2+064.jpg

You can't really see them from her ranch, but they are everywhere. Her property is one of the most quiet and peaceful places I've ever visited-something she hears all the time. It might be different if the wind farms were right next to her house, but having them right over the hill is not an issue.

[MaineYooper]

32. actually...

When I lived in Massachusetts (about 8 years ago), I recall reading about a small group of people who claimed similar problems with some power generators there. It was down near Franklin, in the extreme southwest suburbs of Boston. They claimed that they were susceptible to low frequency vibrations, sounds, etc.

I'm not defending the idea, by the way, just reporting what I recall happening.

My own belief is that there are probably people who through some quirk of genetics and/or anatomy actually *are* more susceptible to this sort of issue that most of the population. The trouble is that setting public policy based on the reaction of the 99th or maybe the 99.99th percentile makes for very expensive public works, and severely restricted locations for such efforts.

[Canuckistanian]

34. I actually read the article

And the European study said that 39 people were affected by the noise in new Zealand.

If that's the only drawback to wind power, I'd say it was negligible compared to the benefits.

And I'd like to see a study of people affected by coal, natural gas, nuclear or hydroelectric power plant studies, too.

Then we could make a REAL cost vs. drawback comparison.

[MaineYooper]

46. agreed-

I'd also like to take people who complain about how windmills spoil their view on an aerial tour of West Virginia. The devastation and destruction generated by mountain-top removal coal mining is staggering, and in my opinion really makes complaining about spoiled views from windmills seem ridiculous in comparison.

[ladjf]

43. Nina Pierpoint wrote the "Wind Turbine Syndrome". Cockle is

an Oregon reporter. I was unable to find out much about Pierpoint other than she has a PHD from Princeton and has been writing articles warning about the health hazards of wind turbines since 2005.
I've found no connections between Pierpoint and the oil industry. But, I've found no substantial evidence backing up her claims.

[RC]

12. With the high price of food, think of all the

dead birds they could pick up for free. :evilgrin:

[krispos42]

13. It's a giant fan on a stick

Jesus Christ.

"wind turbine syndrome" my ass.

How much is Big Oil or Big Natural Gas paying for this "research"? I mean, it leads to the obvious conclusion that, darnit, we just need to keep paying billions of dollars a year for polluting but quiet coal and natural gas power plants.

Imagine that.

I guess the only solution to this is the mass production and installation of domestic 2kW wind turbines that spin much faster and won't make all those low-frequency harmonics that this person is freaking out about. I'm sure that all the power companies are pushing Congress to change the laws to allow and encourage this, right?


:rofl:

Yeah, right.

[pleah]

50. That is it, exactly.

Give me a "giant fan on a stick" any day over power lines or an oil refinery!

What a load of crap this is.

:rofl:

[Junkdrawer]

14. German boffins use "anti noise" to silence wind turbines...

The dull hum that emanates from many wind turbines could soon become a thing of the past thanks to a group of German researchers who claim to have developed a new sound muffling technology capable of cutting noise levels by an estimated 50 per cent.

Engineers at the at the Fraunhofer Institute for Machine Tools and Forming Technology IWU in Dresden claim to have developed an automated noise absorber designed to stop vibrations from a wind turbine's gear box reaching the surrounding tower and being amplified. They are now looking to talk to turbine manufacturers about undertaking field tests for the technology.

...

Noise levels remain a major issue for many onshore wind farm operators with large numbers of proposed projects having been rejected as a result of concerns over the effect of noise on local residents. Energy firm E.ON, for example, recently ditched plans for a 10MW wind farm after concerns over noise forced it to scale down the original the project proposal to just 5MW.

Moreover, many existing turbines are unable to operate at full capacity as a result of noise legislation that can require them to operate at lower speeds in high winds.

http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2223837/german-boffins-anti-noise

[RamboLiberal]

19. So there is a problem

Seems we have a lot of DU'ers saying these people complaining are just whining liars.

[Junkdrawer]

22. 35 to 45 decibels is pretty quiet to begin with...

http://www.bwea.com/ref/noise.html

[gristy]

29. Ah, yes. Of course. Perfect application for anti-noise.

Relatively point source, and low frequency.

[DS1]

16. Wind machines are also 24 hour/day gang stalkers

[A HERETIC I AM]

26. There is a Wind Turbine sitting in a car up the street right now.

and it's looking this way.

Every time I look at it, it pitches its blades down, like it's reading "Wind Turbine Life" magazine or something.

Damned thing.

[DS1]

30. Tell me when its buddies show up

We gotta document this

[uppityperson]

47. I love you guys. That's all. eom

[RamboLiberal]

17. In the mountains Pennsylvania the Audubon Society

is pushing against wind farms on the ridge tops which are migratory routes of raptors.

Siting Recommendations

Audubon Pennsylvania recommends to avoid siting turbines on ridgetops that concentrate raptors during spring and fall migration, in particular Kittatinny Ridge (Blue Mountain), Tuscarora Mountain, Tussey Mountain, Bald Eagle Ridge, and Allegheny Front. Furthermore, other less well-monitored ridgetops in the Ridge and Valley Province, such as Stone and Jack's Mountain, serve as important migration routes during some periods. 4

In addition, Audubon Pennsylvania advocates the protection of unfragmented forests, Important Bird Areas (IBAs), areas supporting federally and state Threatened and Endangered species, and Landscape Conservation Areas (PA Natural Heritage Program - www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/pndi). More appropriate turbine sites would be post-industrial (brownfield) sites, away from major migratory corridors. We seek to minimize fragmentation of intact forest blocks, as PA currently supports large breeding populations of forest birds. The fragmentation of large forest blocks is listed as a bird population stressor in many of our IBA conservation plans (the plans can be found at http://pa.audubon.org). Siting wind turbines on "brownfields" (post-industrial sites) rather than large, intact forest blocks would minimize such fragmentation and reduce impacts.

Design Recommendations

Lighting of turbines is to be avoided, as to not attract nocturnal migrating bird flocks. Similarly, adjacent communication and meteorological towers should be lit using rapidly pulsing white strobes, according American Bird Conservancy guidelines, to avoid attracting nocturnal migrants into wind farms. Guy wires at turbines and adjacent towers increase mortality risk, and should be avoided. Similarly, power transmission lines should be run underground.

Audubon Pennsylvania currently is coordinating with Audubon Chapters statewide, as well as meeting regularly in collaborative settings with resource agency and wind industry representatives to advocate for stringent pre- and post-construction monitoring guidelines, ecologically sensitive placement and design of turbines, and an alternative energy policy that minimizes wildlife and habitat impacts.

State office staff recently held a statewide conference call with Chapters to hear from our members on the issues. Participants widely represented regions targeted for wind development, including Presque Isle, Audubon Society of Western PA, Allegheny Plateau, and Juniata Valley in the west, and Lycoming, Seven Mountains, Appalachian and South Mountain chapters in the Ridge and Valley Province. There was general consensus that Audubon supports alternative energy development in the Commonwealth, but that wildlife safety and habitat quality concerns must be on the forefront of all development plans. Audubon Pennsylvania is taking a pro-active approach to the issue by participating in collaborative discussions in Harrisburg and stressing the implementation of nationally developed guidelines for wildlife monitoring, siting, and design criteria for wind turbines, as well as preserving Pennsylvania's highest quality wildlife habitat in the process.


http://pa.audubon.org/news_20060119.html

I know in my area we have tons of brown fields where wind farms could be located away from residents.

[Junkdrawer]

18. Our local Sierra Club is fight hard FOR wind energy...n/t

[dysfunctional press]

31. it's all in what you get used to...

when i started dating my now wife, i lived on the third floor, overlooking division/state st.s in chicago. even with the bedroom window closed,it was loud LATE into the night/morning (4 am or so). she lived in evanston, near the lake and south of the downtown, away from northwestern. it was VERY quiet. when she stayed at my place- she couldn't sleep. when i stayed at hers- i couldn't sleep. then i moved into her place(she owned, i rented), it became our place- and i learned to sleep just fine.

this nutty broad has to learn to live with it- or move.

[hedgehog]

35. I'd have more sympathy if it wasn't for this buried at the bottom of the article:

Potential medial problems aside, wind turbines will wreck the tranquility that Mike and Sherry Eaton came to this remote place to find, Sherry Eaton said. She drives 90 miles a day to and from her job in Hermiston so they can live in the high-desert setting.



I wonder if Ms. Eaton would like to live next to an oil field or refinery?


What about the people living near the coal mines that currently supply most of this nation's electricity? I'd bet they wouldn't be worried about a wind turbine wrecking the view!


Oddly enough, I've never heard a poor person complain about wind turbines. It's always someone in a trophy home who is worried about the view!

[XOKCowboy]

36. Exactly

We had to deal with oil companies coming on our land, cutting roads and salt water spills in our pastures. We're actually considering putting wind generators on our ranch.

[wtmusic]

37. She likes to live in a remote area, so she has a "trophy home"?

Feh. Maybe she prefers a natural vista to this:



I'm convinced 95% of wind power advocates have never seen a wind farm.

[baldguy]

49. No worse than this.

[wtmusic]

59. With wind you get both

The visual footprint of the transmission lines is bigger than the turbines.

[Lorien]

66. Huh? The transmission lines are underground

and have you ever driven through a valley that was FILLED with wind farms? I have, many times in Morongo valley, CA. It's quiet except for the sound of the wind itself, which has been racing through the valley for thousands of years. I like the look of the wind turbines; I see them as a sort of kinetic sculpture. And they DON'T cause the health problems that overhead power lines do.

[wtmusic]

69. I'm not aware of a windfarm in Morongo Valley

but transmission lines are ubiquitous in the San Gorgonio Pass, just to the east

[orleans]

55. 90 miles to work? if she moves think of all the gas she'll save. n/t

[MicaelS]

39. I knew it...

As soon as wind-power starts to become a viable source of energy, the kook element comes out and finds a reason to be against it. I wonder what the kook element will find against solar power?:puke:

[wtmusic]

41. All those kooks who don't want turbines in their back yards

do they even know how important it is to me and my big screen TV?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

57. If you don't want a wind turbine in your back yard...

...then say "I don't want a wind turbine in my back yard." Don't say "the wind turbine is giving me hysterical pregnancies and urinary tract infections."

[wtmusic]

60. I would agree with you, but she has a pretty stellar CV

Education

1991 M.D. The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
1985 Ph.D. Princeton University (Behavioral Ecology)
1981 M.A. Princeton University (Behavioral Ecology)
1977 B.A. Yale University (Biology), National Merit Scholar (cum laude)

Post-Doctoral Training

1992 to 94 Pediatrics Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, Lebanon, NH
1991 to 92 Pediatrics Children’s National Medical Center, Washington, DC
1985 to 86 Ornithology American Museum of Natural History, New York, NY

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

62. I live in Cambridge, UK.

A great many of my friends are Ph.Ds or Ph.D students, and let me tell you, intelligence and education are not impediments to being a damned fool. The fact that none of her research has been published in a respected journal should tell you something. The fact that she is a strong opponent of wind power on the merits (regardless of its alleged health impacts) should tell you something.

[Odin2005]

58. It's SOOO predictable.

Some people, it seems, will complain about any form of energy simply because they are 1. NIMBY morons, or 2. luddites that want us to live like the Amish.

[snooper2]

63. It's the same element that are freaked out

to hold a cell phone up to their ear

:rofl:

[baby_mouse]

65. They trap SUN DEMONS in the electric matrix.

TV static? SUN DEMONS.

Sun Demons give you SOLAR ELECTROCANCER. Like Kryptonite.

[2KS2KHonda]

40. Oh god where the fuck is my Stradivarius when I need it?...let's see

ah, here
:nopity:
:nopity:

[Skittles]

45. I have one too

:nopity:

[Anexio]

42. "Wind Turbine Syndrome?"

Thats a joke, right?

No, it's not a joke, but a legal strategy invented by Dewey, Cheatum and How.

Call 'em 24 hours a day, cash in on the lawsuit.

WTS, is crap.

Snore.

[GoneOffShore]

44. The Danes have already installed wind turbines

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_kolbert

WTS = nonsense

Same as the cell phone nuts.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

52. It's worse than the cell phone nuts.

At least that nuttery is vaguely plausible. This is just stupid.

[baldguy]

48. It's curious, windmills have never been a problem before.

But then, Big Oil hasn't been threatened by them before either.

[Liberal In Texas]

53. Oh geeze...What's next? Solar panel anxiety syndrome?

I can just imagine it..."Those solar panels are sucking my sunlight away." "The noise from the rain on the solar panels next door keeps me up at night." "Solar panels are an eyesore." "Solar panels are leaking radio waves through my tin foil hat."

Do people have these sleep disorders and difficulty with equilibrium living next to the ocean or an Interstate? "Night terrors!?" Give me a break. These people in the OP will be a half mile away! Hanging over the house, indeed. How much could be heard inside their house at night?

Some people will complain about anything.

[Stuckinthebush]

54. As the president of the local chapter of SPAS

I denounce your bigotry against those of us with solar panel anxiety syndrome! Shame!

Those things will heat your brain up.

:D

(I agree, the wind turbine hookey mumbo jumbo syndrome is bull)

[Odin2005]

56. NIMBY bullshit.

"Wind turbine syndrome"? More like Hypochondria mixed with Woo. :rofl:

It won't be too long before the NIMBYists start pulling the same BS they used against nuclear energy. :eyes:

[wtmusic]

61. The health claims are suspect

she probably hates the way they look.

That doesn't make NIMBY "bullshit", however. A lot of people don't like the way they look. And on a more practical note, I guarantee the value of her property has declined because of them.

[enki23]

68. oh. my. fucking. god.

electric generators/motors (for purposes of something like this, the same thing) got you scared? best stay the fuck away from your automobile (especially the hybrids!!!1), washing machine, dishwasher, refrigerator, electric mixer, hairdryer, fan, air conditioner, electric tub scrubber, record player, cd player, dvd player, pc, laptop, electric drill, bus, trolley, subway, crank flashlight, hydroelectric station, gas generator, electric can opener, rc car, model train, salad shooter, elevators, escalator, automatic doors, electric wheelchair(!), scooter, electric lawnmower, furnace, electric heater, electric hair/beard trimmer, electric razor, copier, fax machine, old fashioned telephone, vacuum cleaner, air purifyer, white noise machine, circular saw, band saw, table saw, jigsaw, air compressor, gas pump, water pump, water treatment center, treadmill, zamboni, and electric toothbrush.

and never, i mean never, ride in or near an electric car.