"Its only Rasmussen" "Gallup always leans right" "Its only August" "They oversampled Rs"

[Stinky The Clown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah ......... we heard all the excuses last time. And the time before.

[WCGreen]

1. Agreed...

[rockymountaindem]

2. Exactly

All day I've kept saying to myself "I've seen this movie before".

[mckara]

3. If Americans are Stupid Enough to Elect McCain...

Then the nation deserves a depression and more wars!

[TahitiNut]

5. We are and we do. We've already proved it in 2000 and 2004.

:shrug: Why would ANYONE be surprised?

[mckara]

18. No Kidding

It's very frustrating!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. We sure did hear them before...

I thought this time it would be different...

Damn, it gets old.

x(

[KharmaTrain]

6. Well Let's Just Give Up And Hide In A Hole

I guess when the going gets tough, some DU'ers are ready to throw up hands and go home. Oh noes, we're doomed.

So what excuses do we use for bailing out before the convention and over two months before an election? Cause "we've heard all these excuses?"

Yes, there are a lot of stupid people out there who still haven't figured out what a lying sack of shit Gramps is...and many are starting to see this, but since an outlier poll shows him slighty ahead, it's all over.

As I've said many tmes before, DU has some of the worst poker players...

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Blow it out your shortz

Should we just sit around smiling and making like its all sunshine and light and hope for the best?

Fuck that. I want us to start fighting. I am sick and fucking tired of losing and being with losers. We're always so fucking smart. We keep our powder dry and the criminals run rampant. We take the high road and get our asses kicked from the rabble on the low road. We ignore the polls because they're so .... what? When someone says something bad about our FUCKING OPPONENT, do we cheer? NO. We throw the truth teller under the fucking bus and chastise the people on our side who say 'harsh' things. (Wes Clark, just a few weeks ago).

No. I ain't givin' up.

But it sure looks like no one else is ready to actually FUCKING FIGHT TO WIN.

Feh ...... yeah, sure .... you tell me what a loser I am.

[Canuckistanian]

15. Now you're talking

I was starting to worry about the tone of your OP.

Now THAT'S the H2S I was expecting.

[KharmaTrain]

16. So Gramps Should Dictate The Race...

OK...

Trust me, I'm sure not into the sunshine and light...but I'm also not gonna let some beauty contest numbers over two months from election day say it's beyond hope...all is lost. This is just what Rover would love to see...let's all pull out knives and start the "who lost" game. Or let's get down in the mud and be just as slimy as the GOOP. Yep, let's play into their hand and do just like the corporate media says...because they always know what we're thinking. Sheesh.

Ya ever heard the line about peaking too soon? With all these "polls", Gramps still hasn't cleared 45% in almost every poll and I'm still seeing Senator Obama ahead in many of the key states he needs to win. My constitution still says the Electoral Count, not a national poll, is how elections are won.

That said, yes, there needs to be a stronger attack on the bullshit and lies...but not just of Gramps, but of the corporate media who, it seems, can make people out here jump and then tell you how high. It wasn't Obama who shut Clark down, it was the corporate media...a guy by the name of Shieffer...and had Obama wasted time going back and forth about this, what would that have accomplished?

The campaign needs to coordinate it message better...but Obama can't do it alone. This isn't 2004 and the same tricks from that election aren't hunting on this one. If we were to believe the polls, Hillary would have been the nominee a long time ago...but it was Obama's ground game in key states that won the nomination...ground games that polls don't pick up and where votes are won one at a time.

So what's your solution? Have Obama play the GOOP game? I'm sick and tired of the corporate media saying what is up and down...they sure as hell aren't talking to the same people I am.

I'm frustrated as you are...but not at Senator Obama as much as how in the tank the corporate media is for Gramps...covering his ass...this won't stop and they're just waiting for Democrats to hit the panic button...sure would make a great storyline at the convention, no?

My point is don't feed the corporate media beast...it's time to hit the streets and win this thing despite these assholes. Today I organized a second "election day" party...I'll be taking 10 first time voters to the polls...all who can't wait to cast a ballot for Senator Obama. If others here did the same thing, the polls and corporate media can go pound sand.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I'll just make one small point of something you said ........

You said: "I'm frustrated as you are...but not at Senator Obama as much as how in the tank the corporate media is for Gramps...covering his ass...this won't stop and they're just waiting for Democrats to hit the panic button...sure would make a great storyline at the convention, no?"

How 'bout this? How 'bout Obama get a few surrogates to attack the media? And if that doens't work, then he does it himself.

What are they gunna do? Not cover him? Say something mean?

Go here for more on *that* theme: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Husb2Sparkly/46

[KharmaTrain]

19. If A Bear Shits In The Woods...

If we got a fair hearing, I'd say we should attack 24/7 and pulverize these scum...but there have been surrogates who have attacked and either they're attacked or ignored by corporate media. Last week Hillary, of all people, put a pretty good smackdown on Gramps, but what was the corporate media's big story? How her name being placed in nomination is somehow the latest "Democrats are pussies" meme.

Every Sunday the yak shows are still dominated by repugnicans and their neo-con buddies...Democrats are usually a DINO or DLC'er...a "safe Democrat". For some, the only Democrat face they see is a Lanny Davis or Susan Ostrich...or a Donna Brazille who do more harm than good whever they open their pie holes. With "friends" like these. But it's not Obama who put them there, these are on the corporate media payrolls...they could care less about the elections cause they'll still have a paycheck and get invited to the good drinkie-drinkie parties.

A media swarm on personalities is what the corporate media wants...a close race to get ratings and revenues. This is a shit sandwich...attack and be assured the corporate media will obsess and all issues of any substance go out the window and the narrative becomes on how Obama has turned "dirty". So pick your poison...

Let's get through the convention and see where things go...the veepstakes circus will be gone and there will be a full focus on November. If one needs to go negative...do it with facts, not with personality...the "elepahant" in this room is that we're dealing with a caged animal...one that has to maintain this pace through November...or implode...and with it, the corporate media that is his "base".

[cliffordu]

14. Yep.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Unfortunately, "principles" are dictated by the polls.

Usually, followed by the usual rationalizations of "Not as bad as", "our stand is more nuanced", or "it's just practical politics".

See FISA, offshore drilling, the IWR, impeachment, the "defense" budget, Patriot Act, and a long list of other "not as bad" sell-outs.

[Bluebear]

9. :nodding:

[amborin]

10. face it, folks

As Paul Krugman said the other day (and of course du-ers hate Krugman for endorsing Hillary), Obama's campaign leaves MUCH to be desired.....Obama had many opportunitites to twist McCain around a tree, but seems to have blown many of those chances

one example is a recent speech Obama gave that was heavy on deadly statistics (which are great in the appropriate context, but leave many of the masses in the intended audience with glazed eyes), and failed to clearly state the crucial economic message of the statistics

Does Obama want to lose?

His campaign is so lackluster that many prominent progressives (who ardently supported Obama during the primary campaign) are wringing their hands in despair

This is such a tragedy for America and for Dems. Dems had overwhelmingly good condtions for November victory, yet it's slipping fast away.

We can't shift all the blame onto the American populace.

[Seen the light]

11. I want to taste McCain's blood

Figuratively of course.

Obama needs to go negative the moment the convention is over and not let up until the election.

[autorank]

12. Like your 'tude Husb2Sparkly

This is the Matrix, in living 3-D color. These corporate polls are FOSH.

Here's a good one, they can't hide it all, Bloomberg 8/15-18 (http://pollingreport.com - "trial heats"
or direct link: http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm (scroll down to Bloomberg)


8/15-18/08

"Would you describe yourself as enthusiastic about the candidacy of John McCain, or not?" Asked of McCain supporters

Enthusiastic
Obama - 78
McCain - 61

Not
Obama - 20
Mccain - 38

So screw 'em. We know what this means.

[mzmolly]

13. Negative campaigning works. This "stay above the fray" stuff does not.

Yep, we've heard it all before.

[Wilber_Stool]

20. Interesting take on polls today

from NPR. They said that poll are exclusively taken on land lines. That means that people that use cell phones are never part of the polls. Cell phone users a likely to be young newly registered voters. Just something to think about.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. That's been 'discovered' for years

We heard about that in 06, 04, 02 and 00.

On edit ..... I give this the same credence I give when people poo poo the polls by saying they're biased or they undersample Dems or the guy who owns the polling form is a repuibican.

Lots of excuses.

[ShadowLiberal]

22. Actually I believe a few pollsters are 'experimenting' with including some cell phone users in polls

I don't know who exactly, but I definitely read somewhere that a few polling companies are experimenting with how to properly include cell phone users in calls to get a more realistic sample of the American public.