Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

San Francisco Ponders: Could Bike Lanes Cause Pollution?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:18 PM
Original message
San Francisco Ponders: Could Bike Lanes Cause Pollution?
The Wall Street Journal

San Francisco Ponders: Could Bike Lanes Cause Pollution?
City Backpedals on a Cycling Plan After Mr. Anderson Goes to Court
By PHRED DVORAK
August 20, 2008; Page A1

SAN FRANCISCO -- New York is wooing cyclists with chartreuse bike lanes. Chicago is spending nearly $1 million for double-decker bicycle parking. San Francisco can't even install new bike racks. Blame Rob Anderson. At a time when most other cities are encouraging biking as green transport, the 65-year-old local gadfly has stymied cycling-support efforts here by arguing that urban bicycle boosting could actually be bad for the environment. That's put the brakes on everything from new bike lanes to bike racks while the city works on an environmental-impact report.

(snip)

"We're the ones keeping emissions from the air!" shouted Leah Shahum, executive director of the 10,000-strong San Francisco Bicycle Coalition, at a July 21 protest. Mr. Anderson disagrees. Cars always will vastly outnumber bikes, he reasons, so allotting more street space to cyclists could cause more traffic jams, more idling and more pollution. Mr. Anderson says the city has been blinded by political correctness. It's an "attempt by the anti-car fanatics to screw up our traffic on behalf of the bicycle fantasy," he wrote in his blog this month.


(snip)

That year Mr. Anderson, who mostly lives off a small government stipend he receives for caring for his 92-year-old mother, also started a blog, digging into local politics with gusto. One of his first targets: the city's most ambitious bike plan to date. Unveiled in 2004, the 527-page document was filled with maps, traffic analyses and a list of roughly 240 locations where the city hoped to make cycling easier. The plan called for more bike lanes, better bike parking and a boost in cycling to 10% of the city's total trips by 2010. The plan irked Mr. Anderson. Having not owned a car in 20 years, he says he has had several near misses with bikers roaring through crosswalks and red lights, and sees bicycles as dangerous and impractical for car-centric American cities. Mr. Anderson was also bugged by what he describes as the holier-than-thou attitude typified by Critical Mass, a monthly gathering of bikers who coast through the city, snarling traffic for hours. "The behavior of the bike people on city streets is always annoying," he says. "This 'Get out of my way, I'm not burning fossil fuels.' "


In February 2005, Mr. Anderson showed up at a planning commission meeting. If San Francisco was going to take away parking spaces and car lanes, he argued, it had better do an environmental-impact review first. When the Board of Supervisors voted to skip the review, Mr. Anderson sued in state court, enlisting his friend Mary Miles, a former postal worker, cartoonist and Anderson Valley Advertiser colleague. Ms. Miles, who was admitted to the California bar in 2004 at age 57, proved a pugnacious litigator. She sought to kill the initial brief from San Francisco's lawyers after it exceeded the accepted length by a page. She objected when the city attorney described Mr. Anderson's advocacy group, the Coalition for Adequate Review, as CAR in their documents. (It's C-FAR.) She also convinced the court to review key planning documents over the city's objections.

In November 2006, a California Superior Court judge rejected San Francisco's contention that it didn't need an environmental review and ordered San Francisco to stop all bike-plan activity until it completed the review. Since then, San Francisco has pedaled very slowly. City planners say they're being extra careful with their environmental study, in hopes that Mr. Anderson and Ms. Miles won't challenge it. Planners don't expect the study will be done for another year.

(snip)

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121919354756955249.html (subscription)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Cars will always vastly outnumber bikes." Hmmm...
Check your assumptions, Mr. Anderson.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. I guess one determined asshole
can make it hell for a million + people. Amazing and sad all at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Welcome to modern America n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Montana has bike lanes, I think that they are great.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. While I agree when it comes to "diamond lanes," I don't for bicycle lanes.
Diamond lanes are "chauffeur lanes" ... cramming the remaining traffic into less space and disrupting it more with diamond lane drivers merging and exiting. Keeping cars on the roads longer merely increases gasoline consumption. Where the alternative is NO CAR AT ALL (i.e. a bicycle) the net is far, far better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. This crank is sure garnering a lot of attention
Even on the local news here in Portland, they devoted a couple of minutes to this crackpot. To their credit, the station also talked to a professor of urban planning, who described Anderson's theories as so much poppycock, but just to air this buffoonery lends it a credence it doesn't deserve.

Yet he can hold up an entire city with unsubstantiated nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good for him
Anderson is a man of principle which is more than some on this site can say. He served time in prison for refusing to cooperate with the draft during the Vietnam War. How many on this board can say they would do something like that? He is correct that bicycles can create many problems. I see them daily run though red lights, zigging and zagging around oncoming traffic. They will go as close as they can to people walking in a cross walk. Typical elitists who think the world is meant to serve them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Bicyclists are Elitists?
I.... I really don't know what to say to this one. Your perspective puzzles me, I can only assume that some personal event has influenced you in ways that are not apparent against bicyclists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No, he's right - about some cyclists. There are plenty who really are elitists
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 02:54 PM by bean fidhleir
I see them all the time. They're generally the ones with the flash spandex and expensive bikes, zooming along as though the world will end if they get to their destination five minutes late.

Edit: which isn't to day I agree with whatsizname. I'm glad there are still people willing to stand up for what they think is right. Pity so many of them seem to be self-centered windbags who only come down on the right side of an issue (e.g. VN) by accident!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Cyclists have to obey traffic laws like everyone else
and should be ticketed if they break them.

However, if given their own lanes, then cars and pedestrians should not be crowded out.

And... when it comes down to it, a flesh and blood cyclists will always lose against hundreds of pounds of metal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, as a committed utility cyclist I'm well aware. I've also can't
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 03:03 PM by bean fidhleir
count the number of times I've sat there at a light and had some putz in spandex and speedhead helmet whip by me through the light on his (it always seems to be "his") Waterford or Sachs as though he were competing in the Tour de France.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Well, sure
But the same could be said about certain drivers of cars, or of some truckers, or of just about any group you'd care to name. That doesn't change the fact that bicycling deserves support for a whole flotilla of reasons, especially in urban environments like San Francisco. A great number of the issues people have with cyclists stem from city planning trying to force bicycles and automobiles to share the exact same piece of real estate on the road. It is an inherently unbalanced equation, which results in far too many accidents.

The proposals the city is considering would go a long way towards alleviating these problems, and should not be opposed just because there are a handful of morons doing their 5 mile commute to work on $3000 carbon fiber racing bikes with Ultegra drivetrains and imported Italian saddles, dreaming they are Lance Armstrong on a mountainside in France while blowing through red lights and terrorizing pedestrians. I hate these assholes as much as anyone believe me, but that shouldn't result in me having to share the same asphalt with an Escalade while I pedal my battered ParkPre with the busted front derailleur to the local grocery store.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I agree with you, of course! My response to your earlier post was only because it
read to me as though you were denying the existence of elitist arseholes who ride bikes.

How sad and effed up is the idea that maybe the only people left willing to take a risk, be obnoxious, and push til the bitter end are the self-centered ego-trippers with so little sense of fitness that they'll happily oppose the constructive good?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. How does someone who seems to ride an expensive bike become an elitist?
:shrug:

Did they get off the bike and tell you that only people in their class should ride expensive bikes?

That word sure gets thrown around a lot.

"Elitist" doesn't mean "people who own expensive things".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You have it backwards. It's the elitists who make sure they have expensive everything
It's part of showing that they're better than us.

It's like JSMill's comment about conservative views and stupidity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Owning expensive things can be a demonstration of a viewpoint
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 04:25 PM by sfexpat2000
but it isn't proof of that viewpoint.

My mom owns some nice things and she's the least elitist type I've ever met in my life. But it looks like you'd think differently if you saw her bike. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. You're STILL getting it backwards!
I'm saying the expensive goods come from the elite attitude. All humans are mortal, but Felix being mortal doesn't mean Felix is human.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Well, no. Sometimes those things come from hard work, bean.
They have nothing to do with hating other people. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Are you making a joke and I'm just too dull-witted to get it?
Or do you really not grasp the point of my Felix example?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. No, I am giving you a counter example. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I find it very hard to talk about something with someone who resolutely ignores what I actually
say in favor of putting words in my mouth.

Humans all die because of being mortal. Mehitabel will eventually die. Is Mehitabel a human?

Elitists who own bicycles all own expensive bicycles. Algernon Braithwaite VIII owns an expensive bicycle. Is Algie an elitist?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. But you cannot prove that elitists who own bikes own expensive bikes.
You resolutely are ignoring your own errors. Please don't give me credit for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Why don't you ask tkmorris whether I'm trying to do anything of the kind?
And please, study elementary logic. It's really disrespectful of you to accuse someone of ill intent when you don't have the basic tools to understand even the plainest formal examples.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. I haven't accused you of anything, bean, just pointed out
that your syllogism is flawed.

That's pretty basic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Did the same bellow, he got extremely defensive
By the way, we don't understand logic either.

:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. My syllogism is not flawed. See whether you can get someone who actually understands logic
to publicly agree with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Okay. Maybe I should do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. No, it's not the bike that makes them "elitist"
Plenty of people own expensive bikes who are NOT elitist. However, every elitist bike owner has an expensive bike. I wish I could figure out how to put a Venn diagram in here....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. bean and I have gone around before and I suspect, at cross purposes.
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 04:44 PM by sfexpat2000
There is very much a class of people here in my town that would ride bikes if it killed blue collar babies coming and going. That's what they do, their lives are sort of constructed around not connecting with other people.

But, when we throw the term "elitist" out like that, it really reminds me of the anti-intellectualism of the right wing "don't think, don't study" people. It is okay to succeed and to have things, imo. It's when you do it at the expense of others irresponsibly that we have a problem on our hands.

So, I guess I'm saying there's a very real difference between people who contribute to our society and who happen to be successful in material terms and people who contribute nothing to or only take from our society and who happen to be successful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Oh I agree wholeheartedly
In the interest of being fair though I should point out that Bean wasn't the one to introduce the "elitist" term into the conversation, it was Bamalib. I suspect, at least on this occasion, you, I, and Bean are all in agreement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I ride an expensive bike
bought it at a half off sale... so paid less for it than I was willing to spend

It is lighter than its huffy cousin and serves me well

I guess I am an elitist

Oh wait, I don't wear spandex... I'd look silly in it... and my helmet is the most utilitarian one I could get for the best price

But for the bicyclist are elitist crowd... I am one. After all I ride an expensive bike.

Should I tell our friend how much we have ahem, SAVED in gas? Or the fact that I am in the best shape I have been in oh YEARS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I bought a bike last winter and my puppy promptly ate
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 05:40 PM by sfexpat2000
the seat, the pedals and god knows what else. lol

Talk about your badly timed purchases. I was really stupid.

She's got her teeth under control now, and I'm nearly ready to assess the damage and do replacements.

There are nice paths out here on the beach. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. On the bright side your puppy is over that stage
the parrots still go after books, furniture et al... they just spent fifteen minutes in cage after going after books.

OIF

One of the culprits is 20+ the other is 16+
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. I used to call my George and Gracie my paper shredders.
lol

Paper, the blinds, the bookcases. That Gracie was always on the lookout for nesting stuff. Miss them. :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Birds, they have a hell of a personality, don't they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. All humans are mortal, Nadin, but Felix being mortal doesn't mean Felix is human
The group of mortals includes the group human by definition ("all humans..."). But it is not necessarily coextensive with it. The group of mortals might contain non-humans, too, we don't know. So we can't tell from the information whether Felix is a human or a non-human. We don't have enough information.

All elitists own expensive bikes. Algernon Braithwaite VIII owns an expensive bike. Is Algie an elitist?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Do all elitists own expensive bikes?
You'd think they could have one of their people hail a cab. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. Terrible exercise in logic
I guess it would never enter your little mind that some of us bought a more expensive bike because it has a LIGHTER frame and it will also LAST longer with proper maintenance

Oh and the cost of gas will not enter the equation either I guess.

By the way... what you just did is called a strawman
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Why don't you ask tkmorris or someone else who understands logic
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 05:33 PM by bean fidhleir
whether my example is correct. Alternately, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_undistributed_middle

Don't make yourself look a fool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I understand logic... thank you
And that is a strawman.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You obviously do not understand logic, and it is not a strawman.
See if you can get someone who DOES understand logic to agree with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. If you say so... by the way, using the logic you used... I can call you an elitist too
Gee golly... have a nice life
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. You think so? Try. Lay it out as a syllogism. You'll flop. But don't take my word for it,
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 05:53 PM by bean fidhleir
actually do it. Show me I'm wrong. Please!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Perhaps this dunderhead would prefer to live here in Honolulu
where I discovered, to my chagrin, that it is perfectly legal to ride bikes on the sidewalk, except in certain congested business districts such as downtown and Waikiki.

he says he has had several near misses with bikers roaring through crosswalks and red lights

Pshaw! I've had several near misses with them whizzing past me right on the sidewalk! :grr:

We did pass an initiative to build bike lanes a while back, but they'll be years in the making (sigh).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. in chicago, the joggers & rollerbladers feel entitled to the lakefront bike lanes...
and actually get annoyed at the bicyclists who unlike them, have the right to be there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. It is hawaii bra... and there is no public transport on the rest of the Islands
the power of the car selling lobby is unimaginable to most people off the Islands

I suspect the only reason Honolulu has a smidgen of one are the tourists... and you and I know service gets really bad once you get off tourist zone
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. there is no question that on rural roads bicyclists create an increase
in emissions from the vehicles that must slow behind them, and then re-accelerate. The two most inefficient things an internal combustion driven vehicle can do are to slow down and to speed up. Bicyclists on rural roads cause more of both, hence contribute more to pollution than by riding off-road, or on bike paths. Nevermind that they haul their pedaltoys out to the rural roads on their behemoth SUCK-UVs...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Which is why bike lanes or trails are needed
This way each keeps to his/her own assigned lane - one hopes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Depends on your definition of "need"
Nobody commutes by bicycle out here - it is strictly recreational. I'm not certain that the bicyclists' "need" to take their recreation in this particular area is as important as the legitimate need of those of us who live out here to be able to get around without worse than necessary fuel mileage and worse than necessary pollution. Not to mention the increased accident rate that the recreational cyclists cause DIRECTLY (twisty roads, few passing zones, and bicyclists every quarter mile are not conducive to traffic safety).

Having to pass one bicyclist is nothing. Having to pass 2 or 3 is a PITA. Having to pass twenty or more individual bicyclists and packs of bicyclists (who seem terribly averse to the idea of "sharing the road" by at least riding single-file) in a fifteen mile stretch is downright ass-ridiculous.

Now, if they had to be LICENSED to ride these roads, and if the bike lanes/paths were funded through that licensure program, I could get behind the idea. But enforcement would be needed. Our local sheriff, for instance, won't even cite the organizers of bicycle races on our rural county roads for parading without a permit, and they place (unlawful) flagmen at intersections to hold traffic for 20 minutes or more!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Funny, you just made the case of WHY you need those lanes
and paths....

Now you seem to have a problem with outsiders coming to your area of the world...

And yes some folks are a PITA and don't know how to share, but your post just made the case
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Yeah, but if you had one person riding a car (speeding and slowing down)
and one on a bike, wouldn't it be better than TWO people riding cars?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Demanding a critical analysis of a government plan?
HERESY!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is a prime example of a person with waaaaaaaaay to much time on his hands. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. You left out the best part of the article
"Regardless of the obvious dangers, some people will ride bikes in San Francisco for the same reason
Islamic fanatics will engage in suicide bombings -- because they are politically motivated to do so," he wrote in a May 21 post."

I'm sorry but the guy's a nut. People ride bikes for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with politics. And they tend to live much longer than suicide bombers.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. No, actually he's right - some do ride for political reasons.
He'd be wrong if he said everyone rides for political reasons, but he was smart enough not to do that.

He's a kook for sure, but not a brainless one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DustyJoe Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. Burrito Power
I could hazard that if the cyclist ate a few Burritos before biking, the major pollution would be methane emissions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC